PART 2 BF Host Plant Seed Trade DISCUSSION

Question about "wild" cherry trees.. Do the red spotted purple also like other cherry trees? As in Yoshino which we have lots in Lizella (Macon,GA) Thanks for the info, Elaine

I was lucky enough to get my hands on some spicebush seeds. I have about a dozen. I wanted to try the seed because I haven't found a nursery with sexed plants, just like Deb said. I think it would take too long to mature a plant and figure out what sex it is and then they get expensive. Anyway, my plan is to try to grow the seeds until they are big enough to bloom (if female)...probably 3-4 years. then I will keep, maybe a male & 2 females and give the rest away. these came from a plant with orange fruit - kind of unusual. so wish me luck. and in a mere few years I may have plants to share :0)

gram

HI there Elaine!

RSP Caterpillar pic>>
http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/wildthing/redspottedpurple.htm and a little info..
another one>
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Horticulture/butterflypages/detailpages/redspottedpurple.htm

So far i am not finding Yoshino on the list of host plants.. I bet the Yoshino is a wonderful tree to have though!!

Here is a list by Host you all may find useful too>
http://www.ento.vt.edu/Facilities/OnCampus/IDLab/AnnualReports/2001Report/insectsbyhost.html
(These are all other kinds of insects though) not Caterpillars, however some worms etc, can give someone a false hope of Butterflies, this page may give a start of IDing them.

o/

This message was edited Nov 10, 2006 8:55 PM

Gram, you sound like me. I have the 'need' to grow seeds.. I picked some pepper seeds from plants today from the golf course (well,,,they were just "gone to seed", anyway).. Good luck on growing them, Elaine

Same here Jan! Thats so cool you found some seeds! The bushes get about 8ftx8ft Jim from NNNursery said. Both bloom, however the female bears the fruit.

Maybe this site will help you sex them when blooms do come:
http://www.bsu.edu/web/fseec/environment/ECI/FloraECI/lindera_benzoin.htm

See, learn something every day. thanks, Deb. I obviously didn't realize the males bloom. I bookmarked that site.

thanks, Elaine. there is something very satisfying about growing a plant from seed.

I like getting plants from closeby areas when possible. Besides the whole issue of local genotype for native plants, I have noticed that it seems to be true what many people have said--the plants are more likely to survive when they're from similiar conditions. In case anyone a bit further north is interested, here's a mail-order source in New Jersey that has spicebush. They're charging $9 per plant plus shipping. I didn't see what size the plants are though, but suspect they're small based on what I've gotten from them in the past.

http://www.toadshade.com/plants.html

I don't like getting into shipping plants, but if there happen to be other New Jersey people who plan on going to the roundup in the spring, there's a chance I'll be able to go and bring at least one spicebush seedling. Not sure, but I'm hoping so. I think I have 2 seedlings at the moment and from past experience they'll probably make it through the winter. My yard apparently has good conditions for their showing up, so if I'm lucky there'll be more. The bushes have been picked clean of berries already, so seeds aren't a possibility at the moment.

Lori

Critter-- It looks like you are pretty well covered on your BF gardening! I see that the NABA is headquartered in New Jersey, so no doubt there is a lot of interest in Butterflies around you-- Here are a couple of sites if you haven't already, you may want to look at...

http://www.wildnj.com/ksbplants.htm

http://www.wildnj.com/ksbelusive.htm

http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabanj/index.html

Thanks Lori!
Sounds like a good connection, and even better for people up east for sure. New Jersey is THE Garden State for heaven sake!

When we lived in Clifton, Patterson and Montclair, boy could we grow some lush plants! I had such a cool garden there in Patterson! Gladnes (my MIL) still keeps a garden with all sorts of things there on Park St in Montclair. You definatly have some of the best soil of all right there :oD! Good place for all of us to buy from as well.
I truely appreciate you letting all in the thread know a good place to get the Spicebush!
o/

As I was saying in the Host Trading thread... All 9 envelopes have been sent out, as promised. I kept all the addresses so I can send out whatever new things I get along the way. If you have any questions when you receive the packages just dmail me. They aren't in real fancy envelopes, just used what I had around the house this time. DH needs to get more ink for my color printer, but I couldn't wait on that either. lol.

I put what I have left of Nectar seed on the Nectar Thread..

As for Hosts:

Queen Anne's Lace
Dill
Fennel
Parsley All Out
Cassia Alata

Expecting a pound of White Clover landino, and will trade for Milkweed.. I sent a lot of my own stock out in the mail, and need more so I can keep sharing the joy. And y'all know I will!

Parsley really liking this cooler weather, and will definatly expect Black Swallowtails! Snapdragons are for the Buckeye...

Here is the Black Holyhock, also doing alright so far... I hope to get some Painted Lady cats in Spring! If any of you can find seeds get them for your host garden. I can't wait to see the blooms on these babies!

I have this one big plant and 4 itty bity ones around it.

Deb-I've not read this whole thread, but really enjoyed the "purple butterfly" picture. Can you please tell me the common and scientific name of it?
Gorgeous!
-T

T~You may have to click on the picture and get the url and copy it for me, so I know exactly which one your asking about.

:-)

http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2830497
you wrote hairstreak.

I looked up "purple hairstreak" on google to try to find it, but they were all gray
Thank you

Ok T~
It is a Strymon melinus Gray Hairstreak
Yeah they all are gray to silver to purplish.. The other picture up there is the same one, only the wings are open..which is hard to get a picture of, lol..The usually hold their wings closed and above their back. I have some White & some Pink Rose Mallow,Hibiscus seeds, if you'd like to have some.
:-D

http://bugguide.net/node/view/579

^^Read info on them in this url^^

Deb-
Thank you for your offer. I have lots of their host plants, but just haven't seen one that is purple. I think I've seen plenty of them around here, that are gray.

That purple coloring in your photo is just gorgeous. I guess the next time I see one, I'll try to look at it from a different angle and maybe the sun will highlight more color...

Great shots and thank you for the id. Sorry I had to ask, but just now finding this thread, and this was a very long thread, lol...

Hello evryone
I have several Hibiscus and they are talking a pretty good freeze this week end where I am from they never really got to much frost on them but here the frost is much thicker and stays colder my question is don't they come back in the spring and do they die back all the way to the root??? I know my Texas stars will come back
Thank you for all your thoughts
Jesse

I know that in Florida (zone 9) they will freeze to the ground at times. If they are mulched, they often return in the Spring.

Jesse, What Hibiscus and how cold?

If they are tropical they would need to be covered from freezing temps or they very well could die. If they are hardy they just need to be cut back to the ground, and they will come back like gangbusters in Spring. If I sent you some Hibiscus seed, they are the hardy ones. They take a little while to establish, but will keep coming back.
LMK

:-)

I have been trying to get the type of Hibiscus but its really chilly like in the upper 20's some fokes around here say they will come back, I have a couple trained or shaped like a tree (not so much the bushie looking Hibiscus. I hope they come back!

Is there any one or two sites that have big lists of host plants. That way when buying and growing you can have a main list easily available to look at. Like when I went to the store and got Yarrow instead of Fennel cuz I couldn't remember which one it wsa I needed. It would be nice if there was a easy master list of the host plants and nectar plants.

So many times I see people buy a plant cuz it says butterfly friendly but then it never specifically says, host or nectar. People buy a plant and thoink they are going to have butteflys all over not realizing all involved for them and I think they get a bit disappointed then and don't continue to try and cultivate them to their yards.

Here's one for ya Starlight...
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1701.htm

edited to add another site:
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1290/

This message was edited Dec 5, 2006 10:34 AM

Thanks for the links. I am excited and sick at the same time. from th links I found that rattlebush is good for one of the butterflies and I only kneew it as a weed and riped it out. UGGGGGGG! At least before I did I gatehred seed pods on it and saved them, so I guess wil plant it since it beneficial to them.

The exciting, I also have a bunch of Sassafras seedlings scattered around my yard. For years I had one growing under my trailer, but had never seen it flower or do anything, but just had to remove it last year because of putting up underpinning and it would have been growing in the dark. It must have been doing something for me to have all these seedllings. Because of where some of them are located I was going to take them out, but now since I know they are also a beneficial, I will leave them grow in there weird spots. Just think you saved a bunch of food for who know s how many butterflies. So glad I asked my question. : )

Yeah Star!
That Spicebush Swallowtail is one cool cat....I hope you get some! I am getting about a dozen viable Sassafrass seeds this week,, hoping to host some myself.

Do you have Milkweed? We have plenty of seed for a couple different varieties. You need to begin establishing that as soon as you can in Late winter so it will be ready for the Monarchs and Queens coming up from Florida and Mexico.

As soon as it starts to warm up you can get some Parsley plants. by Spring there will be Black swallowtails looking for a place to ovipost. They like several different host plants, but Parsley is an easy one to start with and easy to find.

Just add your host plants as you go.

Here is a pic of Spicebush ST Cat>

Deb.... AHHHH cute pic . The look says, " Ain't I just too cute."

I will take a look around my yard, and tag some of the Sassafras seedlings if they haven't lost all of their leave s yet. If your seed don't sprout let me know and I can BR ship you a seedling or two.

Mentioning Spicebush reminded me too, that I have a bunch extra seeds of Spicebush from the pods I collected a weeks ago if anybody interested in some of them to grow for their butterflies. .

On hand I also have , Basswood seeds, and Tulip tree seeds just collected last week if anybody needs some. Have a few extra too, of the Pink, Scarlett, White and Blue Aster seeds, these are called Patio pot variety, small size , uicker to grow and bloom if anybody interested.

See on the list you provided that Mexican Buckeye is on there. Just recieved a few seeds of it from a friend for a different science experiment, so I tickled it can be used for both, if I can get them germinated. Was hard to find those seeds, took me several months to get the MB.

I think I will take a trip and go see if there are any of the Celtis seeds left to collect if the wildlife hasn't gotten them all.

Starlight - I would love a couple seeds from your spicebush. And also a few from your aster collection. I have some trade items that you may or may not be interested in. I would love to have the Tulip and Basswood, but alas, I have a small yard and not room for such large trees! Or I can send SASBE. LMK. Thanks!

Looks like you have some desirable host plants there. To list host plants you have available for trade, go to this thread. List only the host plants:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/661941/

As for the Asters and other nectaring plants, you can post your list here:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/667302/

I think I would like some of the Tulip Tree seeds & Basswood too ...
I can trade some Milkweed for them.




This message was edited Dec 6, 2006 6:37 AM

Oh cool. Thanks for the links. Will get the Basswood and Tulip out to ya Deb. No trading necessary. I have oodles, and anythign to help some other folks have food too.

hello all
I know on one of these threads ya were talking about trees(fruit) that butterflies and humming birds like I haven't done a search on this yet thought some of you may have a l;ist or know some that would be good. This is the time of the year to plant trees and I thought I might ask what kind would be good!
Thank You
Jesse

Here in Ohio, red buckeye for the early hummingbirds. Hackberry and wild cherries for the butterflies. Willows, too. Some other ideas--

http://landscaping.about.com/od/treesforbirdbutterfly/Trees_for_Attracting_Birds_and_Butterflies.htm

Am not sure what would be good for Texas, though.

That reminds me, might be good to do a search for host plants for the state you come from. I know that hackberries, wild cherry trees and willows are used in Texas. Spicebush is good if you can find some. And if you can find a source for Hop Trees, they host both the Giant Swallowtail and the Two-tailed Tiger Swallowtails. This site has nectar and host plants for central Texas, although it's kind of longish and more about the native plants than nonnatives.
http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/tnhc/entomology/butterfly/bfgarden.html
Funny thing about lists, I've got some plants that are supposed to host butterflies, but never do. Local preferences, maybe?

Starlight, I would love a couple of Spicebush seeds too!! Karen

On Spicebush Karen it is really good if you can get a plant that is already a year old. It takes at least 2 years for them to be up and ready for the cats. Also you need more than one plant to make sure you have male and female. I found Nearly Native Nursery to be a reliable source or healthy plants. They are in GA. Jim is very accomodating to us butterfly people. The plants are only $4 each. I paid for 2 and got 4 in the delivery, because JIm wanted to be sure I had at least one of each sex. Both sexes will flower, but only the female bears fruit, and she can only do that if there is a male plant in the mix.

I placed another order that came yesterday... 2 Ice Ballet MW, 1 Pipevine, and 1 Bottlebrush Buckeye.

Another thing to be sure on host plants is to make sure you have the right genus on host plant. Some plants are called by the same common name, but the latin name gets more specific to the actual host. So like Linda I had some I thought would be hosts but turned out I had another cultivar called by same common name. Now I have it all cleared up with help from Jim at NNN.

Tropical karen, be glad to send ya some seed, just send me a dmail with your addy.

How right you are Deb about some plants having the same common names. Sometimes it makes it very frustrating.

Deb, I didn't know about Nearly Native. They're right under my nose. This thread is great!
Deborah♥

Cool Deborah!
I sure hope everyone is still watching this thread, because I found a good source for Passaflora Incarnata seed. It is at Easyliving Wildflowers... www.easywildflowers.com

All I did was email a Purchase Order to them for 1 Ounce of (850) seeds, and asked them how could I pay by check. Today I received the package of seeds with a little bill for 14.00, 11.00 + 3.00 p&h. Thats a 3 day turn around folks!! Very good show of faith there! I hope some of you can take advantage of it too! Seems to be a great company to deal with imo.

Cherio~

Here is what I wrote:

December 22, 2006
Purchase Order
1 ounce - Passion Flower seeds.......$11.00
Shipping - .......................................$3.00
.....................................................$14.00*
http://www.theletteroflove.com/wallpaper/wp-content/photos/gulffritcut.jpg

My address

My phone number

Dear John,
May I pay by check?
Thank You!

Deb Magnes

Deb - Wow! What are you going to do with 850 seeds? That's a lot of passion vine seeds! I had about 14 PV (Maypop) seeds this past year and they ALL sprouted! I've got the vines growing against the 2 side fences in my backyard. (Which I have been told may be way too many vines all growing at once against my fences.) I can't imagine having 850 seeds! LOL

The company does seem like a pretty prompt and good-faith seed/plant dealer! Very neat that you found them. I also checked out the Nearly Native Nursery website. Also most interesting. They had a number of plants that I was interested in. Did you actually get an order from them, Deb? If so, how did the plants look when you got them? (Or did you just order seeds?) I want a spicebush plant. That is one of the few I don't have yet and can not find it around here locally.

I have seeds for the spicebush, but I am not sure how easy they are to germinate. I think they have to be put in the refridgerator for cold stratification several months to get them to germinate.

This message was edited Dec 26, 2006 4:53 PM

I am so glad you asked Becky dear...

I plan to share them with ALL OF YOU, that's what!! LOL For trade, or for the asking... I will go ahead and send some out to you as soon as I package them. You are first on the list Beckaroo....big wide smiles :-D.

About NNNursery...I ordered 2 Spicebushes about a month ago. When I called Jim I asked if he could make sure I had 1 male and 1 female, (they are sexed, and need both for proper pollination). I sent him $23.00 for the plants and postage. He said he would throw in an extra plant to increase my odds (very kind of him), because until the blooms are ID'd he wouldn't know. He sent me 3 and one small one that sortof fell out when I went to heel them in. So I got 4 Spicebushes!!

My second order was for:
1 HerculesClub (Zanthoxylum clava-herculis), 2 Asclepias Incarnata Alba, (Ice Ballet MW) and 1 Pipevine (Aristolochia macrophylla / Aristolochia durior) 1 Aesculus parviflora pic> http://www.nearlynativenursery.com/Plantpics/400/AesculusParviflora.jpg ,
He was out of Hercules Club and I have to check back in Spring.

I am really happy with the service and the plants are excellent! They were packed very securely. (I gave one of the White MW plants and some seeds for other host plants to my mailman Daniel for Christmas, because he and his wife love the BFs and want to garden for them as well.)
I will definatly be calling Jim @ NNN again very soon. Probably to order the Aesculus pavia (Red BB Buckeye).

My sister and nephew came to help me haul 60 bags of dirt and humus/manure from HD today. It took 2 loads, and with all the help (6 people),we got it all back there in less than an hour.. whew!! What a wonderful & productive day this has been! I am beside myself!

:-D

Deb - LOL! You are too funny!

I am thinking along the same lines as you with some of the plants you ordered from Jim. I, too, want some of the Ice Ballet Swamp MW, Spicebush (of course), and I'm even considering a Pipevine (though I have some seeds that I may try to germinate first). I almost asked you why you didn't order a Wild Lime instead of the Hercules Club, but then I remembered that they don't sell any plants that are considered citrus across state lines because of citrus canker. :-S

I have a Hercules Club and the two Wild Limes that I bought from a local native nursery about a month ago. Both are growing surprisingly well and somewhat fast. I had heard that the Wild Lime grows pretty fast. Apparently that may be true. I wonder if anyone sells seeds for the Wild Lime? You would like that plant, Deb. It's attractive and has a neat citrus smell when you crush the leaves. (Of course, so does the Hercules Club.) The thorns on the HC are the only thing that has me a little concerned. They are some of the nastiest thorns that I have in my entire yard. And I have a number of plants with thorns! That plant's thorns are really bad! Other than that, the plant is also nice looking. Reminds me of a typical shrub-type. The Wild Lime also has thorns, but not nearly as nasty as the HC.

I'm bringing them all in tonight because of the dipping temps. My 2 small starter Pawpaws dropped all their leaves. I don't know if it is because it is winter or if they went into shock when I transplanted them into larger pots. I read that they are very sensitive to change. They don't appear to be dead, just dormant. I guess I'll find out over the next few months if they are going to make it. Once they get established, I heard they do fine.

How hardy is the Spicebush? Do you know?

Thanks for the heads up on NNN and what you ordered. I'm looking at some other bog plants that are not necessarily butterfly host plants. But perhaps they will be nectar plants. I love rainlilies! I saw that he is selling some white ones. I've started pink and yellow ones from seed, but was told that it takes 2 years getting established from seed to begin blooming. :-S Oh well. Must have patience! LOL

What is the Aesculus parviflora? That is just gorgeous!!! Apparently it attracts the Giant Swallowtails or Tiger Swallowtails. I couldn't be sure which butterflies they were from the photo. Is it a host or just a nectar plant for them? I really, really like it. Thanks for posting the link from NNN of the photo! Did you get a plant or seeds for that one? Do you know anything about Spotted Joe Pye Weed? Seems I read about that somewhere, so I am wondering if it is a buttefly plant.

You've got some good nurseries and dealers that you've posted here! Thanks for giving us all the info!

Very glad, thats why I'm here girl!
The Asculus is Bottle Brush Buckeye. Parviflora is white and the Aesculus pavia is Red. He carries both. Hummingbirds love it too, thats the main reason I bought the plant, and want the red one too.
I don't know if Spotted JPW is a host for anything, but I do know it is a good nectar plant. I have one pack of seeds for JPW http://www.parkseed.com/product_images/3184.jpg , I can split with you if you like..Just say the word. The jury is still out on Park's until my whole order has arrived, some will ship in spring. Until then I will share what I have and wait on recommending them. I was only showing the picture of JPW with the url above.

Valueseeds seems to be a good seed source too. Their seeds are 99c or less a pkg. They have the Cuphea Seeds, (Matchless Cigar plant) for hummies, the order came pretty quick on them, about a week. I got exactly what I ordered, and wished I had tripled the amounts... Oh well...Next time I will order more. They arent kidding when the say Cheap Seeds. 5 bucks for 5 pkgs, including postage.. pretty good! I will order again for sure.
http://www.valueseeds.com/guides.html

Another thing> When ordering online I buy Mastercards from my Bank for no extra charge other than the face value. (From 25to500 dollars, any amount) I think it is safer to make online purchases with those instead of my Visa with the high credit limit on it.

NIght,
Deb