PART 2 BF Host Plant Seed Trade DISCUSSION

I am interested in any of the herbs they like, like rue or parsley. I am so new to this that I am still struggling through all the information. I want all the BF's I can get to come to my garden, but I imagine that will be too difficult. I would definitely like some milkweed, all I have is the red top/yellow bottom one (scarlet silky I think?) I feel so out of place, you all share so much, it's hard to keep up, LOL. I did get some seeds of verbena from tabasco, and I wondered if there was more than one color? Guide me!!

Kaykay - Dill is another host plant for Eastern Black Swallowtails. Do you need some seeds? I have dill seeds.

I will have to check my box, and I am too tired tonight. I think I have dill, though.

For all of you new butterfly gardeners or thinking of starting a butterfly garden ...... I highly recommend it!

I started planting gardens around my yard 2 years ago and this year I added vines and more host plants. Well ... let me tell you .... have I got butterflies!!! Just an hour ago I counted 12 butterflies in my yard at one time! The Zebra Longwing came back with another one! And I've got 2 Monarchs again (both are females laying eggs on the milkweed). Also quite a few skippers, sulfurs, and some iddy bitty blue and brown butterflies, and the white peacock that must live in my yard. Plus the bees and dragonflies are out and about in huge numbers as well. I believe I now have a butterfly habitat! Yay!

Finally the temps have cooled a bit in my zone and it's Fall! LOL!

Yaay Becky!!
Claps and applaudes!! / / / / /




..now let's see some pictures LOL!


Deb

Deb - If those butterflies and all the other flying critters would just stop flying around and land long enough so that I could get some photos! LOL!

I tried today to get some photos of the Zebra Longwings but they were flying all over the place. Whoever said that they liked shade is so right. My Maypop vines are hanging over boths sides of the fence and it's shaded on the outside of the fence and the ZLW kept flying to the other side. Drat! They are such neat butterflies. Their flight is so different than most butterflies. I'll keep trying to get some photos to post. The little tiny butterflies are quick, too. They are so small that I don't know if my camera will be able to get a good photo of them.

I have to tell you, my garden seems to have exploded with growth the past 2 weeks. Even my husband thinks I should be trimming all the plants back. He thinks it looks like a jungle. LOL! It doesn't, he's just used to a barren yard! :-P~~~

I was at the store the other day and found some dill seeds I was looking for stuff to make chilly! Are these the same as what ya have for BF's
Jesse

Jesse -It is probably the dill that the Eastern Black Swallowtail host on. Plant some and find out! :-)

I've been gardening for butterflies for a couple of years.

Will the exchange be SASE if one is offering seeds but does not need an exchange?

Wish I'd read this thread before as I've just passed on oodles of butterfly and fragrant seeds to a fellow gardener, hoping she would find takers for them!

I may still have some Aristolochia Gibertii seeds, but I'll have to check this. Passiflora...Corky Vine's seeds are frequently ripening. .(Gulf Fritteries) Cassia Alata's seeds are ripeing right now. (Sulphurs)

Just a point about attaching trellis to fences. My neighbour attached a series of trellises to my long fence. With the weight of his mature huge vines and hurricane Wilma's strength my fence did not stand a chance to hold up. The fence on the other side had no vines attached and was not demolished

becky-- why don't you start a thread showing pics of yours and others' gardens? I'd love to see some others butterfly gardens (now that ours have gone to bed for the winter!) t.

tabasco - I will. I just hope more than just me will post photos. I, too, like to see what everyone's gardens look like. I have more to do in my yard and am always open to ideas of plant groupings and garden layout ideas. :-)

I'll try. The problem is my digital camera is so old that I cannot adjust the amount of light that gets in so the photos are usually too light. Karen

Send them to me in email and I will be happy to edit them for ya Karen :o).

Just found this forum and I am so happy I did. Just moved here last Nov and this summer spend most of my time outside with my new friends. I have fallen hard for butterlies and want to keep them around.
This is just one of a few photos I managed to take last Aug
:-)
I know one of these guys is a Monarch ( had tons in the garden) but the other have not had any luck with an ID.
He/she did hang around for about 1 week then I found he/she dead in my Porcupine Grass, no damage but just hanging on a leaf. I was so sad but happy that for 1 week I had the chance to see this.

This message was edited Oct 30, 2006 10:45 PM

Both are beautiful! So sad about the unidentified butterfly. There is a site called BUGGUIDE that I usually look at whenever I don't know what it is. It especially helps to have a photo, which you have an awesome photo. Once you get to Bugguide, you can click on the butterfly icon.... as many times as you need to until you see your butterfly. I haven't had any yet that I couldn't identify there.

Good Luck and welcome to Butterflying!

Welcome to one of the best addictions/passions that you could possibly have.

Janet

edited to say: It would be easy for me to take your photo and look him up for you. Looking through those photos will give you a broad appreciation of just how many different kinds of butterflies are out there. I'd suggest bookmarking the site and spend some time there. :-)

J

This message was edited Oct 30, 2006 9:41 PM

It looks like a Great Spangled Fritillary, good picture of one.

Yep Fly!
Bugguide is a good one!

You nailed it! http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1675

Here's another reference site I use mimi~

http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/gallery?f=18&_st=1

Janet! Great job you and Connie did on Penelope!
How's she doin at her new home in the moongate?

Hey y'all I put some new BF cliparts in here if you like to use 'em,
http://theletteroflove.com/wallpaper
(Dmail me any of yours you'd like me to make into cutouts, and I will share them too)

If you don't already use it, tropicalkaren, many DGers like to edit and organize pics with Picasa (easy and fun) --

If your photos seem a bit not up to your 'standards' --too light, too dark, out of focus, etc., you can download Picasa for free from Google and adjust the lighting, focus, crop, sharpness, etc., etc. Picasa is great for taking quick shots and then going back and 'fixing' them up. It also has a 'collage' feature.

http://picasa.google.com/index.html

I just got back from the post office (finally) to mail off my butterfly host plant trade seeds (ten envelopes). I have had the addressed envelopes out on my kitchen counter for two weeks, adding seeds here and there, as they dried and so on. Remind me never to organize a real co-op! A simple and fun project with the seeds, yet I got so confused with which seeds go in which envelopes I will not be surprised if someone opens their envelope and it's empty! God missed me when he gave out the 'organization' gene, that's for sure! LOL Oh, well, you'll just have to be patient with this old gal!

I started many BF cuttings in water and most seem to not like my technique. Will have to try again later on new ones, I guess. Thought I would have a zillion to share! Boo hoo.

Worked in the garden for 7 hours on Monday, putting in tulips and daffodils (off topic--not BF host plants) and replanting/dividing some of our buddlieas , salvias, sedums, etc. in the butterfly garden. A good thing we did it then, 'cause it's very cold today. Haven't seen a butterfly in weeks. Hope they are all comfy in their winter enclosures or down south with "y'all".

I do have picasa but the photos are so overexposed outdoors that they cannot be fixed. I will have to try at sunset or daybreak. Karen

Hi you all,
This is a great thread! And I have a question or maybe a statement, you tell me, I didn't know that Lovage was a host plant but I guess it is, I was ready to ditch mine, have had it for two years and this year I saw the cats to the Black Swallowtail aka Eastern Black Swallowtail! Does anyone know about this? I'm keeping it now of course! I never noticed it before but had three on it at the end of the summer. It was planted not far from the bronze fennel, which always has the cats. I may have had more but didn't really pay that much attention to it.

I havta ask Lebug,
How big were the cats when you saw them on the Lovage?
The fennel might be where they got fat, and if it was end of Summer they might have been scoping it out for morphable limb sites...on said Lovage :o).. If they were small ones I am going to dig tomorrow for more info. Lovage is a really pretty plant.. Might want to save those seeds for later. Someone may want some... like me maybe :o)

Deb

This message was edited Nov 2, 2006 8:34 AM

Oh, wow, k. . You must have a lot of sunshine! Lucky you!

LeBug--thanks for sending the skullcap seeds, too. I will be interested to try them. Let me know what seeds you want from me (d-mail)

I do not know about lovage, either. Not much really comes up on a Google search other than it's an herb and the butterflies like to nectar on a lot of different herbs. There must be better host plants for swallowtails than lovage, although that may have worked that time. (I did read somewhere that in a pinch monarchs will ovipost on plants other than milkweed--cucumbers and zuchini, I think, but it's not recommended. Interesting, though.)

When googling, another thread came up talking about planting your host plants under or near buddleias and other BF nectaring favorites. I hadn't really thought of 'strategic planting' of host plants, but it certainly makes sense!

I think I will plant bunches of parsley under each of my buddlieas just for the heck of it. I do try to 'mass' my milkweeds as much as possible so the BFs can find them and they just happen to be around a buddleia and some verbena bonarienses (which Monarchs seem to love for nectaring).



This message was edited Nov 2, 2006 7:14 AM

I'm planting a big garden with several butterfly bushes this year and planning on putting a bunch of curly parsley, although they seem to prefer the bronze fennel, and the fennel, and butterfly flowers, then a big garden of milkweed and butterfly weed together with butterfly flowers, already started them with mulched leaves, they'll be ready to plant by Spring :-)

My son saw the cats when they were small and I kept watching this one, didn't see the other ones, he got big and fat, first time I saw the black ones though, usually they have more green? I don't think the lovage is all that, kind of ugly after it seeds, like the fennel, one of these days going to try the lovage in soups and etc., when I remember to save some in the freezer lol

I saved some seed, dmail me, would be glad to share! Have fennel and curly parsley too.

Yeah Lebug when I first began seeing the black ones I had some of the same thoughts as you.. I have a wee page about it..if your interrested. http://www.theletteroflove.com/wallpaper/index.php?paged=6 The last (4)of this season are in their little sleeping bags now. #4 finally ... It was not as fat as the other 3, which means it will become a smaller BF..(guess why ya see some huge BST BFs and some kinda small.) It didn't join the other 3 at the top of the cage either, it attached on the paper liner on the bottom..lol.
If you find any alive ya might save 6 or so, but no more than you have plants to feed them. Mine eat about 1 whole 4" parsley each.. to give ya an idea. I think #4 felt the chill from the back door, and all senses said Fall is here. It got very sleepy and diapaused with the rest.
Deb

So, about one parsley plant per swallowtail caterpiller?! That would be a lot of parsley in a summertime! Of course, I have both flat and curly parsley, fennels, and rue, too. But next year I will need more, I think!

LeBug--It sounds like you are going to have quite a butterfly garden next year. Can't wait to see pics next June!

Deb,

I apologize for taking so long to answer your question about Penelope. Connie and I are awaiting a product that will seal her to preserve her colors. Once that arrives, we apply it. Then we have to let her cure for 5 days. We will then be able to ship her to Balvenie, to install in the moongate. I have no doubt that she will be most happy in her new home.

I'm taking her with me to the Round Up in College station this weekend, along with the Golfing Lady we completed this week. I love to show her off! :-)

I don't know where else to post this photo, so I might as well do it here.

This evening, I brought home another 10-12 GF cats from Connie's house. The cage is jam packed full of cats! While I was putting new cuttings and the new cats into the house, I noticed that the 1 Monarch chrysalis I have has turned dark. REAL DARK. Yesterday it seemed to be lighter. This evening I noticed that I could see the colors of the wings through the chrysalis. I got a few photos.

So far, 2 of the 45-50 GF cats in there have emerged as butterflies. I was talking to the one yesterday morning as he rested on the lantana and the buddleia. I saw a Monarch flutter to the yellow milkweed that I scrounged also from Connie's house. She laid about a dozen or more eggs on the milkweed. The plant was in the center of the island, so I didn't remove the leaves with the eggs yet. But while I was standing there, I saw a lizard on the soil of the plant. I acted like a fool and shook my arms and told that lizard to get lost. I'm sure the new GF thought I'd lost my mind. Neither the GF nor the Monarch seemed to mind me acting the fool though. They never even batted an eye. Just continued to nectar and lay eggs.

Janet

Deb, haven’t found any cats alive, haven't seen them for a couple of days, looked for their little jackets and non to be found, I looked in a 10 ft. radius cause it was suppose to freeze again, guess I probably lost them to the cold. I'm not much on taking them in the house, afraid I wouldn't have the time they would require and would really feel bad if I lost one because I did something wrong. I run constantly anymore, too many people in the household that don't drive lol

I love your article, it's really cool, and I’m going to use one of the pictures for my wallpaper, thanks! I didn't finish it all, have been in a hurry all day and now trying to hurry and read the threads on here lol I love seeing the different stages of the butterfly, I watch them all of the time in the gardens and never get tired of them, they are so awesome to watch! Yes they can really chow down on that parsley, I remember the first year I grew it the cats were all over it, the next, not so much, they all went to the fennel and have every since, at the end of the summer I may have 1 or 2 on a bronze plant and none on the fennel, like it was the end of the season when I saw the darker cats. like you have a picture of on the lovage, strange, have you noticed a change like that on your host plants at the end of the summer? Has anyone else?

t, I will be happy if the gardens come out half of what I want them too lol You know the butterfly bushes will probably need some time and haven't really decided on all of the nectar plants that I want for it yet, I have two aster plants and some wild aster in the field that I was going to get some seed off of but we are having a hard freeze tonite so guess I missed out on those, although they reseed, do you think the seeds might still be good since they are a reseeder, they are weeds here but beautiful weeds and the butterflies love them! And I never think about the queen ann's lace, it grows wild in our field and we mow it down all of the time, of course I have some in the wild garden but I need to put some in with the butterfly bushes I guess.

I think the parsley compliments the taller flowers and the butterfly bushes, sort of fills in like a frame around the flower so to speak, plant plenty of it, and I’m going to plant a lot with the b. bushes! I'll have to check this rue plant out, I'm using a lot of yellow's and blues, have about 6 yellow butterfly bushes to plant, IF they over winter for me lol

I'm going to have to read up the thread and learn about which nectar plants to choose.
Lea

Lea~
Looks like you have a lot of great things growing in your garden! Your ideas are smashing! Planting all that Parsley is always a good idea, they do compliment anything..especially a winner like Buddelija! Not to worry bout those lil cats ya had though, they may have just found good places to hide for the winter. They are the most difficult chrysalis to find, but there are some there rest assured. Later I will take a pic of #4 of mine, it was half the size of the other 3 but still looks a-ok. It had all the ingredients...
You will not find a whole lot about nectar plants up this thread bc we were attempting to focus on Hosts first. btw.

Janet~
Gheeese you been busy girl!.. and hummm ya have a little golfer lady...Your giving me ideas for a whimsical ornament for my Host garden now..LOL. Thanks for putting the picture in here, you did good there. While we discuss hosting it is good to give folks all the visuals of every stage of BFs!

Hope everyone else is doing alright out there!! This weekend I plan to bear down tight and catch up pon everything I promised. Some of my seeds were still drying etc... I feel lot better from the Epizooty cold I had... I am actually co-hosting this thread with T so it is 2 of us, just that only one person could post the thread. It was a joint decision, and a joint effort... All who feel a big part in this whole endeavor are welcome to share equally with us too.

T just bumped the Host Seed exchange thread too, so y'all be sure to update your inventories, and post them there. Dmail us with what you need and we will try to hook you up best we can! I am looking forward to the Nectar Plants discussion which we can begin very soon too! There are so so many!!

(((people of this thread)))

Deb

LeBug-- Your BF garden sounds very ambitious. Along with buddleias I love Verbena 'bonarienses' in the BF garden, if you don't have it already (treated as an annual in our zone and grows easily from seed) I will send you some. I could have gotten along with just that verbena bonarienses and some milkweed, I think. The BFs seemed to like it even better than the buddleias. BFsappear to like the color purple in our garden, and the purplish buddleias are big attractors. My 'honeycomb' (yellowish) buddleia is often passed over on the way to the purples. Boo hoo.

I bet wild aster (Aster novae-angliae) seed will be just fine for a while. All the books say the BFs love it and this site says wild aster needs several weeks of cold moist stratification, so the cold won't bother it at all. http://www.easywildflowers.com/quality/ast.nov.htm

There are several good butterfly attractor seeds listed on the Easy Living Wildflower Seed site (although I have never purchased from them so don't know the service or quality.)

http://www.easywildflowers.com/table_of_contents.htm

I woke up today to find my tropical milkweed pods have burst open in the kitchen! Oh, my what a mess!

deb--why don't you start a Nectar Seed Exchange Thread. I bet everyone has collected many of their favorite seeds and would be willing to do some trades this winter?

T made an excellent point that some new BF gardeners

.
To begin butterfly gardening all it takes is one host plant in significant supply, in an area easily watched after.. and one really great nectar plant that blooms continually.. Most people who have been gardening any length of time have a lot of flowers already. Adding just one host changes the whole atmosphere of any garden.

Starting out it helped me a lot to plant the host right outside the front door in a small section surrounded by Pink Hawthorn shrubs. I planted several culinary herbs and before I knew it I had Black Swallotails laying eggs and hatching hungry lil caterpillars (it was the Parsly). All I had to do was look after the plants and keep them from dying in the droutful heat.

You might even say I bonded with them better not having so many of their cousins just as well as if I had 10 kinds of caterpillars duckin and diving through my garden paths. It is impossible to be this close to the lives of even a small quantity of these wee creatures without gaining a depth of peace and wisdom..Somehow being exposed enhances our resilliance to these stressful times today. Better than drugs for sure!!!!

You will always find a consistant level of ongoing support in this here in the DG Community Threads for Butterflies and Hummers. Your experience is the thing I personally want to hear about, and have a ringside seat to all your cool pictures. (I have over 100,000 pics myself, lol of animant and inanamant lifeforms, haha). Nothing like witnessing something so amazing and having people who are eager to hear about it from you. Keep showing us what is happening in your garden, just because it is getting winter in the Norhern Hemisphere doesn't mean everything stops. Winter wildlife can be just as interresting, if not exciting.

Anything we may miss easily in the thread? just Dmail me or Tobasco!

I will be here just as much, but now I will also begin a new "Nectar Plants for Butterflies and Hummers Seed Exchange Discussion". Keep both of these on your Watch Threads list.

To all those who already, or are about to Host Butterflies.....We salute you!!
o/
Deb Magnes

Pic from my small host garden:
Snapdragons, Host for Buckeye ( free jpg of Buckeye > http://www.theletteroflove.com/wallpaper/wp-content/photos/buckeyecut_1.jpg )

Still more Gulf Fritillaries out there on the Passionvine! Here is one of the little guys.


:oDeb

deb---

One thing, though, about butterflies and hummers--the hummers like a somewhat different nectar plant selection from the BFs--

hummers go more for (red ?) tubular flowers--trumpet vines, honeysuckles, cardinal flowers, etc., and the BFs seem to go more for flowers with 'landing stations' like cone flowers. sedums, and the color purple (some say).

It took me a while to figure this out! )-: Also, hummers like to eat insects and I wonder if that includes tiny caterpillars?

Thanks T,
Glad you brought out that distinction about Nectar providing blooms, good to keep in mind as we go along. They probably share as many in common as they do separately. That would be something to point out again and again as we go along too.

Oops.... see new thread to thread what goes with this picture, LOL!
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/667130/

This message was edited Nov 3, 2006 7:50 PM

This message was edited Nov 3, 2006 7:59 PM

This message was edited Nov 3, 2006 7:59 PM

Would somebody be able to tell me how much milkweed would be enough to serve as host plants, how large the clumps of plants need to be, and how close to each other?

At the moment I have both butterfly weed and swamp milkweed, but I don't think they're being used by any caterpillars although I've seen monarchs using the swamp milkweed as a nectar plant.

On a slightly different topic I don't think that I've seen anybody mention on this thread that many trees you might have in your backyard already serve as host plants. In my neighborhood these include Fraxinus (ash), Lirodendron (tulip tree), Ulmus (elm), and Cornus (dogwood) among others.

Lori

Hi Lori - Welcome! Yes, you are quite correct! There are many trees that serve as a host plant for Butterflies and Moths.

I usually plant a grouping of milkweed together or in a line about 1 1./2 - 2 feet apart. I also pinch back new growth when I first start them to get them to bush out more. I have not had much luck getting native milkweed to grow in my yard for some reason. But I have had great success with Scarlet milkweed and the Monarchs and Queens love them for nectar and host. I have tons of seed pods forming. Let me know if you are interested in trying them and I can send some seeds to you. They are so easy to grow. (See photo of my milkweed with pods forming!)

Becky, how tall should they be before you pinch the new growth? I've planted 45 seedlings but haven't pinched yet. Mine are about 3 inches tall, very young.

Deborah

Deborah - I'd let them get about 6 - 8 inches tall first. Let them get a good healthy start.

Ok, Thanks Becky.

Hi everyone, maybe someone could tell me if it's okay to plant milkweed now or wait til spring. I have lots of rooted cuttings from this summer I'd like to plant in the ground, but I'm worried about freezes. We don't get that many, but we do get some. On the other hand, I'm wondering how I'll protect this herd of pots come winter without a greenhouse. It seems people are planting in zones north of me - is this okay?

Also, if anyone would like rooted cuttings, let me know.

Budbloom - Mine freeze to the ground every winter and come right back in the Spring. I just keep them mulched about 4 - 5 inches which probably protects them. But mine are also established scarlet milkweed that have been in the ground for at least a month. I would plant them now if that's what you want to do instead of keeping them in pots. In all honesty, I think any plant with the word "weed" in it's name is probably pretty hardy once it is established. lol