Newspaper vs. digging?

I'm new to this forum, and I thought this would be the place to start. Yesterday I read about starting new gardens. An option is putting newspapers down right on top of the grass, and covering it with 4-6 inches of soil. Apparently, the newspaper eventually breaks down, and you don't have to do any digging. Of course, I know it depends on the soil you have. Has anyone tried this? I'm thinking that you wouldn't be able to plant there right away, 4-6 inches of soil is not enough to plant in. I'd love to hear others' opinions.

I have used this method with success, but my soil was pretty good to start with. With leaner soil I've put a thick layer of compost down first, then a thick layer of newspapers and a thick mulch. I did this in late summer/fall and by spring the area was ready to plant and the worms had worked the compost into the soil nicely. It's a good idea to give it a few months to completely kill off the sod, or you'll have grass sprouting around the base of your new plants. Good luck, Neal

I use the newspaper method all the time & will never bother digging up sod for new beds ever again!! And I have heavy clay soil.

For new beds I usually do this during the fall/winter, although you can start one anytime. I put down thick layers of newspaper & then cover them with a good 12"+ layer of well-composted horse manure/bedding. By the time planting time rolls around, I have a nice fluffy grass & weed-free bed. And neither my back nor my wallet are broken.

That's great! Sounds easy, too. Now, my only problem will be keeping my dogs out of it until I plant...

We have sandy soil, of course, here in Florida. How long does it usually take you to be able to plant?

Here's another thought, too. Since we have sand here, if you need some real dirt, you have to buy it. Sometimes in truckloads. Two of our neighbors had huge amounts brought in, and then didn't do anything with it for a long time. The mounds eventually ended up just as green as everything else (grass, weeds, etc grew out of it). I guess that wouldn't be a problem with a bed; maybe you just need to keep an eye on it, and pull out whatever comes up right away (?)

Yes - that's what I do. But it's really easy to keep up with since the bed soil isn't compacted. Anything/everything that sprouts pulls right out without any struggle.

As far as planting dates, I don't think it makes much difference, although if you wanted to plant right away I would probably water down the newspaper thoroughly before covering it with the soil so that new plant roots would be able to penetrate it easier before it had a chance to decompose.

Since I usually do this in the fall/winter, I usually have anywhere from 6-8 months lead time before I'm planting. But again - I don't see why you couldn't plant right away if you wanted to.

I think you could probably plant smaller plants right away, but I want to put in a tropical garden, and have 2 or 3 larger plants with some small ones in front, so if you don't have deep enough soil on the newspaper, that would be a problem. I don't know, though, maybe 12 inches or so would be OK...

I have done this and plant in the ground just remove all the grass around the hole, plant the plants then I add the compost, newspaper, some soil and then leaves on top. So far so good - you do have to keep up with the weeds but nothing like a new bed with my Bermuda. So I guess I pull a 50 50 here with what I do - just letting you know it can be done.

Mitch

I have heavy clay and I use the newspaper/mulch method with good results. I do soak my newspapers overnight and I use a really thick layer, sometimes 3", then cover it with several inches of compost and lots of pine straw or hay on top. I have found the soaking helps the paper to break down quicker for me. The worms seem to love this method and they break up the clay underneath.

Pat Lanza, author of Lasagna Gardening moved to Florida from the north a year or so ago. I would be interested in hearing how she is doing in her new, much warmer climate.

Just be *certain* the grass beneath everything is dead before you plant anything...We didn't do this with our first lasagna bed, and we are still fighting grass that grew up in the centers of the perennial clumps. Aaaaargh.

I read about this method of using newspaper several years ago, but it was titled "The Lazy Way to Garden"!...the easier the better, as far as I'm concerned. Our property is very rocky. We have a nice, big yard...looks good & green too. I'm the flower planter around here and I wanted to plant a new bed in a pretty barren part of the yard. I wanted to double dig to prep the bed but jeez!!...ALL THOSE ROCKS! I cut the grass as low as possible, layered newspaper several sheets thick (wetting the paper as you go keeps the paper in place pretty good), put down several inches of compost and then mulched it all. When I wanted to plant something, I just dug a hole for the plant, added more compost and mulched. I'm a firm believer in the smaller the pot, the smaller the hole, which makes things a little easier here. Granted, I start w/ smaller plants so it takes a little longer to fill in, but I AM a gardener so I've got to have patience! Another good thing doing it this way...earthworms love newspaper and that one barren area now has flowers and trees and lots of earthworms!
As far as WHEN to plant, living in zone 9, you can probably plant just about any time, except when its very hot or if you have a major storm blowing ya'lls way!

PS Hope ya'll weren't affected in any bad way by the recent storms...Debbie

I just received (today) the book Lasagna Gardening from Ebay. I read about it last week on one of the forums and found it for $3.00. It is a great hardback book,(used but excellent shape) and the shipping and everything was $5 something... less than $6. What a deal! The price printed on the cover was $26.95. I haven't tried the process yet but I'll guarantee you that I will soon! It sounds great.

It's how we did our veggie garden, though I did some manual tilling to work manure into the soil before we layed down the papers. Next bed I do will involve no digging! LOL My problem is gathering enough organic material in my suburban yard to do much layering. Bad backs and no pick-up truck limits the amount of manure I can haul at a time. Our yard's tiny, so grass clippings are minimal, so we mulch them and let them go back into the grass.

The veggie garden: http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/t/gardenwife/1283/

This message was edited Sep 28, 2005 10:14 PM

My friend ButterflyChaser uses cardboard instead of newspaper. It still decomposes but smothers out the grass a lot faster and more efficiently. You could plant small items in the dirt on top of the cardboard and as it decomposes, the plant roots will grow right through it! But as mentioned previously, it would be a good idea to wait several months before planting anything large enough to require cutting a hole THROUGH the cardboard as that's where the grass will sneak in!

Mulching real well will keep most weeds from growing up through the mulch but weed seeds can always land and sprout on top of it, so it's a never ending battle without LOTS of mulch and PREEN.

Gail

I love the cardboard method. Most everywhere I want to garden is covered in bermuda. I can Round-up and Round-up and still that pest keeps coming up. And it will come right up thru layers of newspaper, which was how I first made beds. With cardboard, it takes longer to biodegrade so it's more effective against the bermuda. I overlap the cardboard very well to prevent it from coming up thru the cracks.

I get free cardboard from our recycling center and the dumpsters around town. Furniture and appliance stores are a great source for big sheets of cardboard. And, as I can't afford tons of soil to pile on, I get FREE mulch from a tree trimmer and cover it all with a thick layer of mulch, which over time will become soil. Then in the spots where I plant, I add soil and pop in the plant. Eventually as I add more plants, and as the mulch biodegrades, it will all be nice soil.

Not only am I lazy, but I'm cheap too. LOL

ButterflyChaser... I am all about the 'cheap' too. I'd prefer to call it 'economically creative'. It's not that I don't spend money ... trust me, I do..... just ask my DH, but why spend it on something you can get for free. I'd much rather spend it on stuff I want... like new plants! The cardboard idea is one I haven't heard before but I can see how it could work better and accomplish the same goal. My brainwheels are turning! tt

This all got my brainwheels turning too! This is very encouraging..It sounds like it works for a lot of you folks. I really do want to try it, but as others have said soil and mulch, especially that much can be expensive. I have no problem getting corrugated boxes to use for cardboard, though.

Here's another thought. It's probably laughable. Just remember I'm a newbie gardener.....could you spray the area with something to kill the grass first, then add the newspapers, compost or soil, etc on top? This is how they re-sod lawns. They kill the entire lawn, then put the sod on top of it.

Debbie, we've been lucky here this hurricane season. I'm in the Tampa area, and so far so good. Unfortunately, there are still two more months to go...

Well - there's no point in putting down the cardboard/newspaper if you're going to spray the area with a herbicide first. The cardboard/newspaper is supposed to be in lieu of having to use a chemical grass/weedkiller.

I think killing what's there first also makes sense if you don't mind using products like Roundup or Spectracide (we use them). It gets the really tough perennial weeds with deep taproots. Those dandelions are amazing in what they can get through. Cardboard might stop them - never done it with cardboard yet.

i plan on doing roundup or something similar (has anybody tried Burn Out?) because the weeds here in florida are too darn tough not to. then i'm going to put in some fill, we are going to have it brought in because we have to fill around the house quite a bit (all that sand). then my thick layers of newspaper, over that a good bagged soil and also some Jungle Growth potting mix and over all of that-mulch. i have gotten in touch with a tree chipper man and that is the way to get it free! this will be my first time doing this here in central florida and from what i've read on DG it will be wonderful plant medium when i start to plant. debi

I don't think I'll try the Round up method yet. I'm all about 'a la natural' so I'll have to try the cardboard first. I'm not even opposed to pulling some grass or weeds but any help the cardboard and/or newspaper gives will be greatly appreciated! I'm still trying to figure out where I will get manure from without buying it. Where we're moving (North GA) is the "chicken farm capital" of the world I think. There sure are a lot of them! Does anybody know if chicken manure will work? I think it would be VERY STRONG! My husband has a utility trailer... maybe I can haul a few boxes that way because it 'ain't' going in my van. Plants, dirt, litter... the ol' girl is used to that, but not chicken poop!

chicken poop is different altogether than horse or cow. it contains higher amounts of certain things. someone else will have to enlighten you as i can't remember, but i read it here at DG. i am going to try Burn Out. i found it online and it's all natural made from plant oil-guaranteed to kill any and all weeds. naturally, i won't even try it on nutgrass, i'm not THAT gullible!!! LOL debi

My grandmother always had cows... & she always had an old 5 gallon bucket with about 1/3 cow manure and the rest water... She would water her flowers from the top and then refilled the bucket. When the water quit being the 'shade of brown' she wanted, she'd add more dung! She always had the most beautiful flowers. Surely I can find some cow piles! She was old fashion but I swear she must have owned stock in Roottone. She bought that stuff like most people buy coffee! I wonder if 'wet fertilizer' would work in a lasagna garden?

I would think the wet fertilizer would be good for breaking stuff down, sure.

one other thing i forgot to add to my list of soil amendments-alfalfa cubes from the feed mill. i can't wait to try all of this. debi

Chicken manure is high in nitrogen, which can burn your plants unless it has decomposed some. (Not sure on those pointers) You could get livestock manure anywhere there are horses, cows, etc. A lot of farmers/ranchers don't mind too much if someone wants to come clean out their barn/stalls, without charging THEM!...and to haul it away to boot! I take care of critters in my "spare" time so I've got access to a pretty good variety of POOP!

You know, vinegar will also kill vegetation...the stronger the acidity the better. I have round up here but it is pretty much reserved for poison ivy areas. Round up isn't supposed to stay in the soil long enough to do any long term damage and supposedly you can plant soon after using round up. I'm not sure about vinegar and any lingering effects it may leave in the soil.

I'm goning to try the cardboard method next. Just need to pick out a good area...gotta be perfect. Someplace where I can enjoy my plantings...but I know wherever that goes, it will be a spot DH picked out years ago to put a shed, or workshop, or WHATEVER!
Hes tired of mowing, but not tired of watering & fertilizer,,,so I reckon that's now my job! Lucky for him I think of our place as a gym. I can get great workouts using so many muscles that I thought I'd misplaced...keeps me in shape and mothernature does even charge me for my membership!

i've tried vinegar, bleach, nothing works on these weeds here. i had high hopes for the vinegar too. debi

I raised chickens for many years & always used the manure & coop bedding - BUT - as someone else stated, it MUST be composted thoroughly first, as it WILL burn plants very readily. I never used mine until it had been mixed in with other compost materials & allowed to "mature" for 4-6 months.

This also helps to kill any grain/weed seeds that may have passed thru the chickens' digestive systems - something I discovered the hard way when I decided to skip composting & just layer the chicken manure directly over the garden one fall/winter. Come spring I did have glorious rich soil - along with all sorts of hard-to-pull grain crops coming up in it!!

I got cow manure from a friend's farm and the plants loved it, but it was full of clover seed. I'm still fighting the creeping, deep rooted things. I wonder if putting it on the sod first, then the newspaper or cardboard and mulch would help combat this?

i know it's more expensive, but i don't do the trek to the farm for manure thing anymore. i buy mine in big bags and it's sterilized. granted, i don't have a big area to work with, but even when i expand, it saves time in the long run because the weeds don't come up. debi

Hint: If Lowe's has broken bags of topsoil, manure, mulch, etc., they sell it at a discount. They always break some when moving skids. Look to see if there are bags over to the side, maybe by their dumpster. Here, those are usually half price, though we've sometimes gotten them for 50 cents a bag!

Well, as of yesterday, I'm saving up my newspapers for sure! I may try Roundup as well, especially if you're supposed to be able to plant right away after. I'll probably end up buying everything in big bags too, and definitely save all the great suggestions for reference.

I tried vinegar on the weeds, didn't work either (and Heloise said it would). My plan is to put the garden right outside our pool cage.
This is a spot that hubby said right away "I got plans for that area". Well, I told him that when he's ready to do his thing, I'll take the garden out, no problem. But I got a feeling that I'll be enjoying that garden for a looooong time to come.

I wish we had a Lowe's closer to us here. It sounds like you can get good deals there. Most of my stuff comes from Walmart, and whatever I can't get there, I get at Home Depot.

Palmnewbie - from what I understand, you can't plant "right away" after using Roundup. I believe there is at least a 2-week wait period, & it might even be longer than that depending on how long the chemical takes to dissipate.

You never know...Try approaching the manager of your local store's garden center and asking if you could take care of the broken bags for them at a discounted price. Especially local mom & pop places might be willing to deal.

Breezy, i thought sure you could plant after round-up. doesn't it become inactive as soon as it touches the ground? i don't know, i'm asking! i mean, i wouldn't plant the same day, but after that i thought it was safe? debi

palm, when i lived in the keys, the only thing we had was an Ace and way up the road a Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart was always a good deal on garden supplies. and don't forget peat moss. i am gonna have so much stuff in these beds, there won't be room for the plants! LOL ps. don't forget to save your coffee grounds as well. debi

This message was edited Sep 30, 2005 6:15 PM

Sorry - you are correct. You can plant "ornamental" flowers, trees, & shrubs "one day" after application. I guess I may have been thinking of food crops.

True. As a matter of fact, the best thing to do if you accidently get Roundup on a plant you don't want to kill is to make a slurry of soil and water, and give the plant a good soaking with that.

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