No More Co-ops??

LOL, NO they didn't, but I am behaving my self a little better now .

Tickle, tickle.....
Have we *cooled it* long enough? May we talk about co-ops again, or has it been decided that they don't get resurrected?
....Pen

I sure hope they come back. I admit, I was a little miffed during the heuchera co-op, but I never blamed DG. I am new to gardening and it would be a great way to try new plants and fill my yard up. I would never spend more than I could afford to lose though, just to be on the safe side.

Rachel

I would love to be in on a small trial coop for peonies. . .

i would love to be in on a small trial co op for anything~

amen !

Amen

Amen!

Wonder if we can get Bert to do one?

He certainly is reliable - Bert is "Bleek" on DG for those of you newbies.

I just placed an order with him for fall bulbs.My bulbs from last year were great.If he does a coop count me in.

I don't know. I still haven't gotten past the Huechera co-op. I only got half of my $60+ order, and no refund or anything. That was the fourth bad co-op for me. They always look so good, and are so hard to resist. I loved the good ones I was in on, I just don't know if the good makes up for all the bad ones.
Deb

im still hoping that the co-ops come back
Bert has some great ideas how to run them and great plants to offer too.

I think the key to coops will be smaller orders and less perishable items. I would be willing to give it a try.

Martha,
:-))) but who is Bert ? whoever he is he is willing :-)

I probably would try another co-OP but it would have to be for hardy plants,
Brigitte

iam still not over the Heuchera one either but i do miss them. i have been in some bad ones but with money being tight tight wont be able t buy much like last year. the co ops do have a good side when done right.

maybe a trial run would be good. just one and see how it goes.

an idea is one at a time until its all done. not five or six going at a time. that way one can be monitered and watched easily by all then haveing to worry about five or six at one time.

Brigitte, Bert is bleek here. His plants and bulbs have been offered in many co-ops. :)

I think the biggest factor in having a co-op go well, is to limit the variety! It is a whole lot easier to get 5 different things to 100 people than to get 100 things to 5 people. It seems like things most often go wrong when hosts let either the number of people or the number of items get too big. I am not saying that is always the problem but it is a big factor.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen to all of Badseed's observations.

The problem grows exponentially when you're trying to sort and ship 100 items to 10, 20, 50 or 100 people. Most of us simply aren't equipped to become de-facto "resellers" - we don't have the staff, the space or the time to take in a huge order of various items, then sort and re-box everything in a day or two (A daylily co-op I did took several trips to UPS because my half-ton pickup wouldn't hold all the boxes!)

But few of us have the ability to say "no" when "just one more" person asks to join in, and that's how the co-ops get out of hand in a hurry.

If I were asked (and I haven't been ;o) I would lean more toward a mandatory limit - no more than a couple hundred bucks and no more than, say 10 participants in any given co-op, or something in that neighborhood. It takes the pressure off the organizer - they can point to the rules and avoid being the "bad guy" to turn people away once the limits are reached. It also means fewer people will get burned if something does go wrong, and fewer dollars are lost in the deal.

If mistakes happen, there's still a mess to clean up, but it removes the allure of thousands of dollars that might tempt a would-be scammer, and honest mistakes don't wind up costing the participants more than they can afford to walk away from. (Those who are thinking *they* they can handle big orders, think again. Every co-op - mine included - that dealt with large numbers of plants and participants had snags. Some worse than others, but all had some problems along the way.)

For the record, I remain EXTREMELY reluctant/skeptical/leery of letting our member/vendors sell directly to DG members. In theory, it might sound great, although I have my doubts about that. (I'm ordinarily an optimistic sort of person, but let's think about this realistically.)

Consider the fallout if problems occur with a vendor "special discount to DG members" (I don't think you can really call it a co-op or group purchase.) First off, the expectation level from the participants will be much higher when it's a "pro" responsible for the orders. Now think how vocal some members have been when they weren't happy with the quality of their co-op plants. Does a vendor REALLY want to deal with their open criticism and complaints? (There are some folks you will never make happy, as most vendors know from personal experience. And here, those people have a public forum to gripe - and trust me, they will.)

It's easy to say "we won't ask the admins to intervene" - until something goes wrong. I'm not a gambler, but I'd wager a good sum of cash that when something goes afoul, we'd be dragged into the dispute, even by those who had vowed otherwise.

It's bad enough to sort out disputes among members. To throw in the added headache of trying to mediate between unhappy subscribers and a defensive vendor (who may be paying to advertise here) - it makes my head hurt to even contemplate it.

But could we try a small one......with specific limits.....pleaseeeeee

1) sarv48, it's not my call on whether co-ops come back or not. I am absolutely not wanting or intending to bring any pressure on Dave or Trish to make a decision one way or the other. My thoughts are purely a summarizing of past events.

2) sarv48, are you volunteering to head one up, assuming that at some point Dave says "yes"?

People ask why co-ops went downhill after such a good run. Here's my personal theory:

- Experiencing a co-op is a lot like giving birth. Our memories grow better as time goes by. (Some of the earlier co-ops were doozies, too.)

- DG grew. And grew. And grew. But the number of people willing to organize a co-op remained pretty much the same. (Most of life is an 80/20 deal - 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. And I think once you hit a certain size, the split grows wider - the same small group is still doing the work, and serving an ever-larger group.)

- A few bad co-ops scared away some potential organizers.

- A few extremely vocal complainers scared away even more would-be organizers. (Whether the complaints were justified or not isn't the issue - many people watched the co-ops unfold and vowed they'd never stick THEIR necks out and risk that sort of censure.)

- DG grew some more. And more. And more.

- In the last year, only a very small handful of people even bothered to try organizing a co-op. As co-ops became scarce, people "piled on" the few that were offered, making co-ops into frenzied mega-events.

- A couple of the organizers had ulterior motives, as we later learned.. Some organizers got burned at the stake, for issues that were partly their fault, and partly because they took on too much work for one person.

Sooooooo.............unless/until more people speak up and indicate they are willing to organize small purchases, don't count on co-ops making a comeback.

i would do another one! :)

Well, I will speak up if it will help the cause. As long as it's small, I would be willing to host one. I helped Jamie (texasgarden) with the shipping last year so I did get to see some of the work that goes into it, firsthand. I don't know if I would be up for potted perennials, but definitely daylilies or bulbs.

If it isn't too late in the season, I would be willing to try bare-root peonies. Maybe three or four varieties and no more than 15 people? I'm afraid that by the time it got organized this year we would be too far into fall for us Northern folks.

small number of people and/or small number of selections sound like a very good idea. I'm wondering how we could make it so that everybody has a fair chance to participate. I mean, as a homemaker, I could sit in front of the computer and stake out every coop and be among the first 10-15 responders. I love coops and unless they're offering lilacs or tulips, I can see myself interested in every single one.

But how about subscribers that work outside of the home who cannot use the office computer for personal business? Or the subscribers that have a doctor't appt. and cannot be there at coop opening time? In the plant trading forum an offer for SASE can get 10-15 responses within 1 day, maybe less. I would anticipate that there would be a similar response to coops (especially now since we are coop starved! LOL)

I don't have a suggestion as to how we could make it so that everyone has a fair chance but I think it is something we should think about.

My hope would be that if some co-ops (and bear in mind, we are speaking in pure hypotheticals here) were popular enough to quickly meet the maximum $$$ or participants, then someone else might step up and offer to do a "Part II" (with the same or another vendor.) Even a third or fourth small groups could be formed for very popular co-ops.

Hmmm. I like that idea.

Or like on the radio station "this contest is not open to anyone who has won within the last 90 days".
If you were in the last co-op, sit this one out, or some similar situation. Not everybody would get plants, but maybe the ones who did get plants would be happier and willing to do co-ops of their own.

I've been trying to keep up w/ the thoughts and ideas along the way.

It strikes me that a co-op done as Part 1, Part 2, etc, might even work out regionally. Which would cut down shipping costs and time, as well as be more in tune to the climate and planting times which are so varied throughout the states.

Although I did not head up a co-op in the past, and my experience as a participant is very limited, I would consider (w/ caution) organizing (or working w/ another member) a small one that was manageable in its scope.

Great work on eveyone's part to keep the ideas flowing and the topic alive!

This message was edited Sep 23, 2005 2:51 PM

Hey, please make a part two on this tread now, think of those on dial-up :0)
Janett

If we do smaller coops, are the vendors going to give us a good enough price break to make it worth while to do a coop, rather than just order individually?

maybe if we approach the vendors by saying a 3-4 way split is easier on them also, they might go for that and give us a good price break anyway.

Hey, now that's a good idea! JUST FOR EXAMPLE: Aug - 20 participants from zones 5 and colder, Sept - 20 participants from zones 6 & 7, Oct - 20 participants from zones 8 and warmer. That example would give 60 people the chance to participate, involve three waves of shipping, and make each stage smaller for the coordinator.

As someone who participated in a number of coops and was working on putting something together to organize a coop, for me this bridge has burned. This place no longer feels safe enough to put myself up as a coop organizer, and I've become leery of the distrust, hatred and venom which so quickly spilled out in some of the coops. This has become a large site with all of the political, logistical, and social overhead that that entails, and I no longer feel that I could depend on trust and goodwill to keep any venture on the rails.

On the flip side, I have no trouble trusting individuals, in trades or as coop organizers, especially when I can see what kind of a member they have been, how they treat others, etc. And besides, what's $10, or even $100, compared to the value of supporting each other, making people happy, being there to help when things go wrong, let alone one's reputation and self-respect.

Terry, I remember the co-op you did with the jack frost brunnera's = that is the kind I think would work. And yes, I would be willing to host a co-op, but would only want to do it with someone else - since this would be my first one. I like to test the waters first!! Maybe Notmartha and I could do one together since we are both from Mich. I'm game...but it has to stay small for me to be comfortable.

new thread here: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/546796/