Monika's book regarding soil

Hey, those earthquakes just help aerate the soil and get more oxygen to the roots. LOL Anyway, didn't you see the news .... they're more worried about that fault on the Mississippi shaking things up than they are about California.

California Girl by Adoption
Mary

Mary!! If that isn't finding a silver lining in a cloud I don't know what is. lol

lol Mary, smart thinkin' LOLOL

Is she a Pollyanna or what!!!! LOL Jeanette

I just got back from church, Jeanette. I can still remember the 6.9 magnitude Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989. It was unforgettable!!

Every time I drive over the actual fault line I cringe with visions of getting swallowed up if an earth quake hits. There are houses built right on it. I could never live there, though if it goes, I am so close I might as well be living right on top.

Sherry, we have winter here, It is rain and storms for several months. Gloomy!!! Some brugs hate it outside it is so wet and chilly. We can even get bad frosts, we just have been lucky the last few years. Southern California has it made, not us in Northern Ca.

And edited to say I have thought more about how good you think we have it. You guys all have rain all season we have NONE!! I am so sick of watering everyday I could scream. I hand water everything for at least 6 months with no rain at all. If I don't water it, it dies. When I was at my Mom's in NJ, I was shocked that I didn't have to water for weeks. Even if it didn't rain, it was so humid it was like it rained. All together now, poor us in Northern California. LOL. No snow though. LOL

This message was edited Aug 14, 2005 5:41 PM

OK.. Updating my pinch test.. looks like a couple branches are sprouting off both the brugs that were pinched. too early to sa y if they will produce buds. One of my seedlings "y'd over the weekend but it was twice as big as the one I pinched.. THe best test pinch will be the cutting that had three branches coming off. we shall seeeeee

Jeanette I do miss some of the things back home, but unlike Sherry :) , the magic wore off for me in Western Washington. I still have memories of rain rolling down my sleeves as I picked rasberries for 5 dollars a flat. (ooh ooh...I think my Mom's walking to school in 5 feet of snow story is starting to wear off)
Sherry I think that we will see more of the things we want for our gardens as time goes on. I've noticed nurseries ears perk up when you mention Daves Garden. It is giving us a bit of a voice if you will. Things are slow to progress. I've noticed if I go to a feed and seed, or a specialized fertilzer place you have quite a bit more selection. Give it a whirl. You know...I hear what your saying about the Brugmansias, it's a tough road some times in the heat, but then everyone has there problems in whatever zone, so keep tryin! I just had the best summer blooming ever. I'm still waiting for my 20 foot yearlings to bloom. Those were obviously not "pinched". I'm about to go and give them some guidance. I'm having a rotten time with scaly bugs..ararrr

Oh, rj, I'm having a great summer, a really good one, but I do have a PB and Rosamond, mature plants, both about 12 feet tall and neither one has bloomed this season. PB might have teeny, tiny buds; OTOH I have an 18 inch seedling, planted 2/22/05 that has buds, and several other seedlings that have buds, one should bloom today or tomorrow, it's about 3 or 3 1/2 feet tall and is going to have a very nice flush. Last summer was my first time and I built beds most of the time and this year I"ve already expanded twice and think the next expansion will get it just right (as if, lol). I find the different zones fascinating and who ever set them up didn't do it just to draw a map, and lots of the weather conditions in a particular zone, is similar throughout at least some of the zone, where ever the zone goes, if that makes sense. If my PB & Rosamond don't bud up soon, I'm going to get on a ladder and throw some firewood on top of them - can't be any worse than it is now, they've had excellent conditions and did not suffer the chem burn, defoliation that my seedlings did, there is no excuse, except that they are spoiled. 20 foot yearlings - WOWZERS!!! Take some photos...I'm finding a few cats and i'm going to powder today, maybe that will stop them, I just don't want to spray...

rj, I can't see that high up so how do you know they aren't Yd? Or pinched for that matter. Do you use Binocs?? Heck, I can't even see the tops of my 8 footers. My daughter, visiting, found buds on several of my plants I was about to give the old lecture to. Small mind you, but buds. I will take what I can get.

Sherry, I have been looking at the USDA zoning on the net, trying to find out how they set the zones up. So far, I get the idea that they take an average of the lowest temps. The problem is they don't figure in how long those cold temps are. They could be 5 days in my zone 5a and 2 months in Blaines zone 5a. Or visa versa. I think. I am still working on it and will let you know when/if I figure it out.

Jeanette

geez Sherry - I thought I was a meannie stomping the nonperfomers into the compost pile and showing a picture of it to the others!

This message was edited Aug 16, 2005 10:43 AM

Blaine, my 12 foot Rosamond/Pink Beauty, started Ying at about 4 feet - they have the most stretched out Ys I've ever seen, even in photos - if they were at Kell's or Candy's or Clare's or Margie's, they would have hundred of those blossoms that bloom all over the tree, and there would be so many that it would break limbs off the tree. I guess no buds on two 12 foot brugs is my punishment for planting them in Arky!!!

I've still got a monster seedling that's doing the same thing you are describing. Not a bud in sight yet, despite some Y's.

Gee Blaine, I can't believe, after seeing all of your pictures, that you cant get Monster to bloom.

And Sherry, Blaine is talking about a seedling, is yours a seedling too?

Jeanette

Yeah, I'm thinking Brugie crossed this with some mutant jungle fungus or something. I guess it's approaching 9' with multiple Y's. If it doesn't flower before winter, I may just leave it in ground and hang planters and humming bird feeders from the dead trunk next year.

Jnette, I meant to mention that I will be interested in what you learn about the zones. As much as they interest me, and they really do, I've done zero research.

Nope, my PB/Rosamond are cuttings, they are (obviously) mature, this is their 2nd year, but, man, oh, man, there is zero wrong with them, pretty leaves, all in a row, on all their Ys, but NO buds!! I do have a 6 foot, 2 inch seedling (started 2/22/05), that I thought would never Y but it did this week and has teeny widdle buds, they are so cute...

Sherry, I was considering the fire wood myself. I have spent the whole weekend batteling with the scaly bugs - I've been using the enviornmentally safe - spray them off with a hose, but It's not too effective for the tops of them. I'll have to drag the latter out this week and have a closer look. It's probably a good thing I don't have more property!
Jeanette, they have Y'd at the top, and I think I will see some first blooms in September, that is if I win the scaly bug war. I spent all evening wiping them off my currant swirl daturas. - those are getting huge too .. first year I've planted them in the ground and they are way above my head.
Rj

That is funny Blaine. Wonder if Brugie is reading this. LOL. She's got a sense of humor though. That's what you get for "midnight shopping".

I also have a couple of really tall seedlings that are just starting to get buds Sherry. I told my daughter that it was her job to get my Brugs blooming while she is here. Well, she went around and found several that are budding. Not fair, they are just starting to Y. She just came at the right time.

Will let you know if I ever find out anything on the zones.

rj, I had no idea Dats got that tall. Even in the ground. Well, as they say, "Everything grows big in Texas." I might try in the ground next year.

Jeanette

I feel the same way about my giants, seedlings and the PB/Rosamond, Blaine. I understand the seedlings, sorta, but I do not understand the other two. Oh well. Part of mine is the time of the year. If it wasn't so blasted hot, I could do more work and would be too tired to care if the bud or not.

Next season, I'm going to concentrate on the ones I like best and say bye bye to others.

Jnette, since you and rj are having the same trouble that I am, do you think we might have gotten a bad batch of Space City, LOL!!! Not so, because my hibiscus LOVE it!!!

Not so. I haven't used mySpace City yet. rj knows about the weather here. Right now it is about 65 degrees and raining. So, I don't know if our summer is winding down now or what. Could be. Therefore, I am using MG 15-30-15. I am going to use my Space City next spring.

I am going to work on that USDA zoning and see how they get them.

Jeanette

Update,, both pinched plants are sending up two braches at the pinch site. The seedling is being much more enthusiastic about it than ForeverMohr is

So Punkin, you are saying that the Forevermorr was a cutting? Ok, so then you are "hoping" they will Y and bud. That is the purpose of the pinching.

Jeanette

I'd think the Farmers' Almanac might have zone info, and I think it has some weather stuff, but nothing I saw about zones in particular, or what in the world my Arky zone 8a has to do with GGKin's zone 8a in Salem OR, or Mavie's in CA...BTW, Jnette, last year I took some brug cuttings with buds inside, right before the first feeze, put them in my bubbler, and they bloomed just like they thought they were outside in the ground, so don't count them out if they get buds later, if you can move them inside...

No, they probably just have what everybody else does. Zones where you live. Not how they arrived at Blaine and I both in zone 5a. That is funny about your plants blooming in the bubbler. That must mean that you have them in light. Is that a requirement? I was going to put them in bubblers in my fruit celler. No apples. Guess I could put them in the kitchen in bubblers if they are budded. for a while.

Jeanette

Cool Jazzpunkin, hope you see blooms!

Jeanette, you and me both, I had no idea daturas got so big. I'm curious to see how well they bloom next month. The picture is of Currant swirls that are planted in the ground, that I took standing on my deck. They were eye level to above my head, and I'm 6'1, the deck is 3 feet off the ground.

Sherry - at least we may be getting beautiful blooms in October, when other zoneis are having to put theirs in the basement! :) - I've started alternating miracle grow in every other fertilizing. It's my theory that the high phosphate content in space city is an attracting factor for the scaly bugs. Either that or some ingredient. Any comments on that theory?
Rj

My cuttings that bloomed in the GH had no artificial light, they bloomed in natural light that was limited because I forgot to remove the sun shade stuff, until after I found the first batch blooming. If I have lots with buds, I'm going to bring a bubbler inside until they bloom. I do not plan to cut my cuttings as long as I did last year, it isn't necessary and I will concentrate on cuttings above the Ys. Won't work with seedlings that haven't bloomed and I plan to do mostly log cuttings with them. I'm off to do a little limb cleanup if it's stopped raining....

rj your Dats are beautiful. It is hard to believe they are that big. But those blooms looking up like that are so nice because the Brugs are hanging and you can't really see them.

It is getting that time of year when we have to start thinking of what we are going to do with them this winter. You don't have to think of that do you rj? Now didn't you at one time say that those plants were there when you bought the house? How long ago was that? Think you said that was why they got so tall and not trained. It must have been fun when each one started blooming to see the different colors and try to figure out which ones they were.

Time to hit the sack, Jeanette

Yes.. FM was a cutting and she has two "branches" coming off the original stick. One was pinched and the other not. I figure that would be a great test since their conditions are truely equal.

Wow, rj, your dats are beautiful, I'm impressed!! I cannot grow dats. I love your place, it is inviting and peaceful and appears so welcoming, just wonderful and homey and cozy and hidden, all at the same time. Really lovely, like a storybook, I could move right in and be happy forever!!

Jeanette,
no, nothing was in the back yard when I moved in, except the green house. It was mud and grass. I've just planted the daturas in the ground this year. That one in the photo was grown from seed a couple years ago, and it's from that one that I've grown all of the others from it's seeds. I've always had them in big pots. Unfortuneatly do have to get ready for winter. Some winters are mild, others a bit colder. We actually had snow last christmas eve, albeit the first time in 100 years. I lost all of my big Papayas, except the mother tree I keep next to the house in a big pot. I put all of my tropicals in the green house, and 2 or 3 daturas and brugs. I'm about to pull up some daybreaks about 2 feet tall and put them in pots for over winter. It's pretty nice until thanksgiving depending on the year.
Sherry, thankyou - your welcome to come over any time!

Randy, what do you do with your Brugs in the winter? Does it get cold enough to freeze your plants? Snow doesn't usualy mean it is cold. At least not here. But if you lost your Papayas maybe it would get cold enough to freeze at least part of your Brug plants.

Sherry is right. I saw pictures you posted on another thread and your yard with the pond etc is very nice. Do your Daturas get sun? Mine do not like the sun. They get a couple of hours of morning sun and they never open all the way. Just die half way open. I have one that is in total shade and it did open nicely but it didn't get much water either. I think I am killing my plants with kindness.

Jeanette

Jeanette,
I have some that are in pots that will go into the green house, the others will remain outside. The one by the deck rail stayed out last winter. You know... I am finding out that most of the datruas I have don't like the sun at all. I have been experimenting this last week and re-locating much of the potted ones. Seems like they like being right next to full sun locations, without actually being in the sun more than 2 or 3 hours. I have experienced the half open phenomena too. I'm still trying to figure out what conditions cause that. So far it's Bright, limited sun 2-4 hours morning to early afternoon, Wet, but somewhat dry by the end of the day, no fertilzer when not blooming (although dressed with osmocote) and increased fertilizing when buds appear, increasing to 2 or 3 times a week until it blooms.
It unfortuneatly gets cold enough to freeze. I have a big collection of frost clothes that I use, and for most plants I leave out in the yard, I put a back plant of the same, in the green house. The Papayas actually made it through the winter, and still had fruit on them, but it rained so much in early spring most of the got root rot, Which is why I'm growing next summers Papayas now :) in the event things freeze again. We're pretty lucky right in town as it is always just above freezing when the out lying areas are at freezing or below. I

Sounds like you have them pretty much figured out rj. This is my first year of growing Dats and they are a puzzle. I don't find them very much like the Brugs at all.

I am just hoping for one more month of good weather. I have a lot of plants with Ys and starting to bud so if I can get that I might be able to do as Sherry said and put them in bubblers to finish blooming anyway. Too bad. Ideally 2 months would be wonderful.

Jeanette

What is a bubbler? I've been wanting to ask. It should be nice there through September ?

A bubbler is a kitchen waste basket type, 13 gallon or thereabouts, with an airstone run by an aquarium pump in it to oxygenate the water for your Brugs which are cut off and placed in there to winter over. I doubt very much if you would need such a thing. In your zone you can leave them in the ground over the winter.

In our zones, some of 8s and 7 and below if we leave them in the ground they will freeze. So, this is our way of saving them to grow another year.

If/when you ever move to a cold climate then you need to worry about them. Be glad you don't have to do this. That is why everything grows big in Texas.

Jeanette

Jeanette is correct, except I winter mine outside and use a bubbler too. In my zone 8a, some of my brugs wintered outside take longer to bloom, I assume, because they are outside all winter. So, for that reason, and as a safeguard, just in case we have a killing winter, which sometimes happens, I use the bubbler. Also, I only learned this summer that you can use just about any kind of container you like, fruit jar, vase, soda bottle, plastic cup, what ever you like. I really enjoyed using clear, glass containers last spring, cause I could see them nubbie and root...

Sherry, it is funny you say that about the clear glass because I have a clear gallon "pickle" jar, which is like the ones the restaurants use to get pickles, mayonaise, mustard, etc. in before the advent of the plastic jars, tubs, and buckets. I was thinking when I saw it how neat it would be to use that for a bubbler. Maybe for my 18 or so inchers.

Do you know if they even use those anymore for anything? Where you could get any? I get 3 gallon plastic buckets from the bakeries that cake icing comes in. That way I know they didn't have poisons in them. I drill holes in them and use them for one phase of repotting my Brugs.

Gotta write to Blaine and find out how he does his brugs for the winter. I know he has a greenhouse, but he has a whole lot of big brugs to hold over. Maybe he will come on here and I won't have to write again. Huh Blaine?

Jeanette

Three brugs are 3ft +/-. Everything else is 6' plus.
I have a 'Hoop House' but with avg high in the mid 20's for 3 months, trying to heat that thing is not feasible. I'll start moving stuff out in late Feb, early March I think.

Here's the kicker. I think most people have forgotten or don't realize I got my very first brugs (5 rooted cuttings via mail order) last Nov 22. Then in Jan/Feb aquired more cuttings from new friends and seeds. So this is the first time I'll have to take things in for overwintering. I don't plan on trying to save big trees. With my favorites from this season I'm starting multiple logs from below the Y and start my tree sizes for next seson. I'm also going to take cuttings from the flowering region and plan on putting those around the base of the tall tree when they go outside. With nothing more than shop lights and feeding them everytime I water I've seen how well they'll grow in the basement and will have 3foot + plants ready to go out in early Mar.

I intend to do lots of log cuttings this winter too. rj, I have some of the glass pickle jars you mention and I love them too. This year, I plan to be more organized and I'm not cutting any tall cuttings this year, unless someone wants them. The tall ones rooted and bloomed but I had six inch rooted cuttings bloom too, so I'm going for a happy medium, yet shorter than tall, I'm thinking 2 feet. I am so excited about winter and hope it is going to be as much fun as I imagine. Despite heartbreak last November and a broken ankle in Feb, the brugs were so much fun because of the seeds and the bubbler and the GH, which was also new last year. One of the reasons I'm not cutting my brugs too tall is so I can get more other plants in the GH. One thing I will NOT do next year is pot up bubbler brugs or seedlings into large pots. Ultimately, mine will go in the ground, and those giant pots I've used are history, a stupid, extra, difficult step for me. A one or two gal, at the most, pot is fine for rooted cuttings, until they go in the ground. More, when my brain cycles into thinking more about this, lol...

One other thing. I have observed that Kell's posts tell me lots of stuff, despite or zone differences, she generally hits a bull's eye with lots of good stuff that originally flew over my head. One thing in particular is her warnings about using strong chemicals and even some not so strong that defoliate, if not used properly. Her across the board tips are good, like leaving 6 nodes when shaping a brug. Thing is that she didn't originate all the threads, so it's kinda difficult to locate some of them...in fact, I find that just about everything I need is located some place in this forum, but last year I had a really difficult time 'hearing' what Kell and others said...