Where should we move? Help us decide

DH and I live in zone 5/6 Colorado. We are living in a drought prone state whose average rainfall is only 17 inches. Colorado’s alkaline soil is very poor, almost white, with no organic matter. The growing season is 148 days. The sun is intense at an elevation of 6,000 feet and the ever-blowing winds desiccate everything in their path. Our humidity is often only 10%. The overall color scheme here is brown. We have lived here for 12 years, and I was happy here until we got back from visiting my son in Oklahoma this week.
Oklahoma (Stillwater area) is zone 7 and has rich red soil with green plants everywhere. Ponds and streams are filled. The humidity is higher, the growing season is longer and elevation is below 1,000 feet. DH had to listen to me the entire time saying, "It’s so green here."

Now we are toying with the idea of moving, but to where we don’t know. It would have to be someplace with a winter and a good growing season. I am thinking someplace between zone 5 and zone 7. It would need to have a growing season over 148 days, some humidity, rain, have green as the main color scheme, and good gardening resources.

My husband is a technology geek and would need access to high speed Internet and a community with a technology industry center.

Does anyone have any good ideas for us?

Hi, Check out Madison WI on the web. We have a micro climate because of the lakes, that brings us to a zone 5 among the outlying zone 4's. It is the home of the University of Wisconsin, which has a great deal to do with computers from the business school to the aeronautical engineering dept. (which my nephew recently got his dual advanced degrees,,Brag Brag-proud auntie here.) to state of the art agri-science to the teaching medical hospital. And the wonderful Dane County Farmer's Market.
Good luck where-ever you land. It does not sound like a gardeners place there in the CO area that you are in.

Well, I live outside of Chicago, zone 5a (some maps say the lakefront of Chicago is zone 5b). Chicagoland is certainly technology oriented and the countryside is quite green already. We've had a bit of draught last year and this spring we're a bit behind, but nothing terrible such as you are describing. The soil in the boonies where I live is clay, clay, clay, and limestone under that. Plants grow well here, there's humidity all right, and rain, and sunshine.

On the downside, it's expensive to live in the Midwest (I'm basing this on 20 years of Navy life and moving around the country) and I feel that politicians in Illinois are about as crooked as they are anywhere (have they indicted George Ryan yet?). A saying about the area: If you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes, it'll change. Which is fine if it's a blustery day, but not if the sky is blue & the sun is shining!

Yes, Chicago's nickname is?was? "The Windy City". Ha!! I went to school in DeKalb IL and that's where I found out about REAL wind. Actually I think the nickname comes from something other than the weather, but I'm not sure.

OK, have I sold you on Chicagoland?


Oh, PS: I have 40 acres in Arizona that I'm paying on and plan on moving to for retirement! I can't stand the cold & snow here every winter, and the humidity makes me so crabby on hot days...I'll deal with a browner landscape in trade for sunny days and breezy nights.

Eileen
edited to indent & space the paragraphs...sheesh I'm wordy!

This message was edited Apr 27, 2004 10:26 PM

When I read your question, my immediate response was, how about Madison, Wisconsin area? I am in southeastern Wisconsin, near Lake Michigan, and the lake provides some comfort in that we are also 5b. (Doesn't feel like it in January)...If you want to check on real estate pricing in the area to see if it's comparable to where you are now, just log into any of the real estate websites, and browse through their offerings, It will give you a good picture of what you can get. Even on the outskirts of Madison, I'm sure you'll find high speed availability for your DH, and Madison is a lovely city. Most people find the midwest quite affordable compared to either of the coasts....

check out where I live. we seem to have what some people consider paradise, when it comes to all the seasons, and having our needs met. My hubby is into high tech stuff as well. It would also be nice to have a fellow DGer around! :)

Chapel Hill, North Carolina

For technology - Research Triangle Park, which is the largest research park in the world. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is also located there.

For horticulture - J.C. Raulston Arboretum in Raleigh. One of the premier horticultural research facilities in the U.S.

The area and people are as good as it gets. You can garden to your hearts content.

Portland, Oregon

If you can handle overcast skies for 6-7 months of the year, . This may be the most beautiful downtown area I have ever seen, and I've been all over the country. The pacific northwest is a gardener's paradise, which is why there are so many mail order plant companies located there. Portland State University is located downtown.

Incredible food and great microbreweries, great wineries a hop, skip, and a jump away, museums, theatres, and other cultural attractions. The major downsides are the overcast skies, possibly high property taxes (but no sales tax - when the sticker says $19.99 and you give the clerk a $20 bill, you get a penny back - first time that I happened I felt like I was in a Twilight Zone episode), and a lot of flakes living there.

My wife had lived 47 years in Vicksburg, MS, and did not want to go back to Vicksburg when we had to leave.

Right here in southern Minnesota. We are 35 miles from Mankato, Which has a theme,"A lot of Minnesota, a little of the twin cities", or something like that. 2 hour drive to downtown Minneapolis from here, all four lane road.
We live on an 11 acre farmstead. There are lots of them around for sale. 5 acres is the minimum, many are larger. Start at about $100,000 for a place with nice house & some out buildings. There are some with very nice barns. Most will have some kind of windbreak grove or a small woods. Apple trees on most places. These are usually farms where the owners retired & the land was rented to a neighbor & the buildings put up for sale. Taxes are very low, ours are $500 per year.
Now the land! Some of the best in the world! Record crops are grown here, most don't need irrigation. (Rainfall of about 25" a year, some as snow.) Last frost is May 15. First frost in fall is about October 1, most years later. Soil is nice black loam, some times a little sand mixed in. Most is well drained!
Sports are king around here. Lots of town style softball & baseball. Lots of lakes for water skiing & fishing. Of course the Professinal teams are all here. Twins, Vikings, Wild, Timberwolves, & Lynx,(Ladies Basketball.)
Oh, my almost forgot Golf! I live 3 miles from a 18 hole course with a great country club & restaraunt. It layes on both sides of the river, very pretty! Another course 8 miles at Madelia.

As far as internet, everything from dial-up to fastest you can get. Some people are subscribed to a wireless that works great & very fast.
Most towns around here have web sites, so you can look online at things in this part of the country.
Bernie

Copperbaren...

You forgot to mention that Horseshoe is also in the Chapel Hill area!

Although it is growing up around here now-a-days, if you choose a small town on the outskirts of the big growth areas you'll be fine. (We also have a 225 day growing season, altho I don't know why they say it is limited to that...I grow year round!)

North Carolina is beautiful - but I've only been there in the Spring. When I saw it at the time, I thought it would be a beautiful place to live. I don't know what it's like in the summer though. And I don't like snakes like water moccasins............ or copperheads........... YIKES!

A couple of web sites; www.madeliamn.com www.ci.mankato.mn.us

Also forgot to mention we are only a couple of hours from the famed Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. (Only a few minutes by helicopter!) We take it for granted around here!
All local hospitals here belong to Mayo Health System.
One is in Madelia, a very large hospital in Mankato. www.mayoclinic.org

Weather today is 41º at 8AM. Yesterday was 92º, set a record I guess. We are in zone 4A, but have lots of zone 5 plants that do great.

Bernie

wow, wonderful suggestions. DH says keep them coming . . .

LADYASPEN.....I THINK YOU ARE GIVING A BAD IMPRESSION OF COLORADO SPRINGS,CO. ITS A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE AND ALSO A GREAT PLACE TOO GARDEN. BOBBY

I will put a pitch in for Fort Wayne, Indiana. We are close to the big cities, have a decent cost of living, and where I live, it is zone 5b to 6a depending on the year, and I would say some years we can be even warmer, but can also swing the other way, but that is quite rare. So you do have a definite 4 season climate. Taxes are low, and in our area, the average starting price of a new home, depending on size, is right about mid to upper 90's for around 1500 - 1800 square feet ranch style on up.

Here are some of the demographics for Allen County, where Fort Wayne is located, found on the net:

Fort Wayne zip codes: 46802 - 46845
county: Allen
sales tax: 5.00%
cost of living: 91.1%
property crime index: 2
Fort Wayne Population, as of 2000 US Census: 220,468
Fort Wayne MSA: 502,141
Allen County Population: 331,849
Population Density: 2,330
Median Age: 33.5
Median Income: $40,001
Unemployment Rate: 3.45% (that can vary, as we all know)
Total Households: 69,379
Homes owned: 65.15%
Home Median Value: $69,567
Avg. Temp. January: 23°
Avg. Temp. July: 74°

Also, the following from the Net:

The overall cost of living in Fort Wayne is far lower than the national average. To be more specific, housing is an impressive 15% less than the national average. With these rates, it is no surprise that the average residence in Fort Wayne has remained in the $90k range

Fort Wayne is the 2nd largest city in Indiana and Allen County has the largest land mass of any county in the state.

Community Awards

Two All-America City Awards—Given to just 10 cities across the nation annually, the All-America awards recognize quality urban living. Fort Wayne was a winner in 1998 and 1983 (we were a runner-up in 1997).

Two City Livability Awards—This award is presented by the US Conference of Mayors. The city won one of five 1999 City Livability Outstanding Achievement Awards from the US Conference of Mayors. We also won this award in 1983.

Financially Secure—The March 1, 1999, issue of Business Week magazine lists Fort Wayne second among the United States' top 125 metropolitan areas for financial security. The ranking is based on a report by ReliaStar Financial Corp. Fort Wayne - Ranked as the BEST place to retire.

Best Place to Live—Money Magazine's 1998 annual ranking showed Fort Wayne as 4th in its category nationwide among the 300 best places to live in the nation.

Best Practices in Housing and Community Development Award - It is a recognition given by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. HUD recognized the City of Fort Wayne with this award that recognizes the importance of neighborhood input into City planning.

Big City Amenities, Small Town Charm

Fort Wayne is home to a nationally acclaimed Children's Zoo, Botanical Gardens, Art Museum, and award-winning Lincoln Museum. The city is also rich in exciting professional sports, world-class art venues and interactive museums. Hear a Philharmonic performance, see your favorite musician or performer or enjoy one of our many outstanding festivals.

Parks

Fort Wayne has 87 parks totaling nearly 2,200 acres. There are golf courses, pavilions, swimming pools, tennis courts, baseball fields, softball fields, soccer fields, walking trails, campgrounds, nature preserves, ice rinks, free concerts and youth, adult & senior classes. To view a complete listing of parks and their offerings, please see the Fort Wayne Parks and Recreation Department.

Shopping

Fort Wayne houses Glenbrook Mall, the largest indoor mall in Indiana, with 4 department stores and over 175 specialty shops. The new Jefferson Pointe Mall, with Mediterranean-style architecture and tree-lined courtyards, is another option for local shoppers. Fort Wayne has many other shopping choices, whether you are looking for mega malls, neighborhood strip malls or a quaint boutique.

Entertainment

Fort Wayne has the amenities of a big city but with incredible accessibility.

Embassy Theatre
Fort Wayne Ballet
Fort Wayne Children's Zoo
Fort Wayne Civic Theatre
Snickers Comedy Bar
Six movie theatres with 30+ screens
"The City of Restaurants"
Botanical Conservatory
The Fort Wayne Museum of Art
30+ golf courses, ranging from par 3 to exclusive clubs
Festivals throughout the year
Fort Wayne Komets Hockey
Fort Wayne Wizards Baseball
Fort Wayne Freedom NIFL Football
Fort Wayne Fever PDL Soccer
Laser Tag centers
Science Central
Arena Dinner Theatre
Indoor sports facilities
Auburn Cord Duesenberg Museum
Fort Wayne Philharmonic
The Performing Arts Center

My comments:

Chicago is about a 4 to 4-1/2 hour drive away, Toledo about 2-1/2 hours away, Detroit, MI/Windsor, ON is about 3 to 3-1/2 hours, Cleveland is about 4-1/2 hours away, Columbus, OH is about 3-1/2 hours, Indy is about 2 hours, Louisville is about 4 hours, Cincinnati is about 3-1/2 hours away, Huntington WV, Pittsburgh, PA, and St. Louis, MO are all about a 6 hour drive from Fort Wayne. It is quite centrally located.

Bobby,

I have lived in and loved Colorado Springs for 12 years. Even with the water restrictions, my chapped lips, dry cracked and bleeding hands, needing to dust furniture daily - but not having the energy, and gale force winds that blow over my potted plants. I drink over 100 ounces of water per day and still feel parched.

The schools are wonderful, I got my bachelors and masters degrees here. Despite what others say can't be done, I have grown tomatoes from seed here and ripened bell peppers to a bright red. I love how quickly the snow melts, even if it does expose my plants to the harsh wind and bright winter sun. I just mulch "everything" to a depth of 3 inches.

I did however grow up in southern California, with a little more humidity and a longer growing season. I just wanted to know how others felt about where they garden and live.

Sorry if I offended,

Sandy - Lady Aspen

When I moved from southeastern Colorado to Tennessee, the thing I noticed first was how green everything was, and having lived in Oklahoma for 15 years (in an area further east and greener than Stillwater), I can definitely relate to what you marvelled over.

Co Spgs is absolutely GORGEOUS, but...traffic is terrible and Colorado's climate is so arid that you just don't get the green-ness of the more eastern states. There are many places in the southern half of the U.S., starting with Oklahoma/Texas and moving eastward, where we have green grass pretty much year-round, and - unless you move to the deep south - you still get four distinct seasons.

Now in the interest of fairness, that "rich red soil" you saw in Oklahoma is called CLAY. Slimy and mucky when it's wet, brick-hard, shovel-breaking when it's dry. Clay soil is very high in nutrients, but for the reasons above, it's also a gardener's curse, and is common throughout the entire south, with a few notable exceptions (where they have sand instead, lolol.)

And if you didn't experience Oklahoma's incessant winds, you must have lucked out and been there during the one week each year it doesn't blow all day/every day. (Mssrs. Rodgers & Hammerstein didn't dream up that "winds come sweepin' down the plain" ditty just to rhyme with the rest of the song.) Just warning you to be careful what you ask for!

I think you'll find that just about any metro area in OK, TX, AR, MO, TN, KY, VA, NC, SC, AL, GA, LA and MS will have a certain amount of technology opportunities, and all are in zones 5-7, give or take. And believe it or not, most of the south has running water, indoor plumbing, and high-speed internet connectivity ;o)

don't leave out WA! hello! ;) We are dry but mild, have nice springs, winters, falls and summers. The summers can get hot, yes, but only for about 3 weeks, and we get nice breathers (in Spokane, not Seattle - it rains over there too much for me) And yes, we have technology as well as high speed interent. Cable, DSL - whatever you want.

The reason why we asked about high speed internet access is that several communities within 40 miles of my current house don't have access to anything other than dial-up. Yes, that's right. Much of Colorado has indoor door plumbing but not high speed internet. Its a bummer but true for most all Colorado rural communities.

I have a feeling the more you go rural, the more you are not going to have it my friend. Anywhere. They have to lay cables underground so we can have that access.

We have wireless access here. Only costs a little more than dial-up. That will probably come down soon, just like all the other tech stuff has.
Raining here this morning, so lawn will get greener & wait another day for mowing. Tulips are in bloom!
Farmers field corn is beginning to emerge.
Looks like another great year in "God's Country"!
Bernie

I'm with Terry and all of the Upper/Middle South folks. I like where I live, and the area..KY,TN,NC...is usually overlooked.

I have pretty good soil here that will grow mostly anything, and amendments just make it better. We have high speed internet in the area and tech jobs are becoming more in demand. Crime is low and there is good access to health care.

Cost of living is very low.And if you check the average saleries of different occupations, pay is in line with our cost of living. The pay will seem low, but it just don't take as much to live in our area. My tax bill for our property this year was 667.00. That includes a commercial business and a 3200 square foot home on 4 acres, in a residential/small business zone.

Schools are very good. Our tax dollars are used well with wonderful improvements and programs. We don't have any kids, but are impressed with the program.

Weather is pretty good most of the time. But, we have the opposite humidity problem. It _never_ falls below 50% and most times is over 70%. We have a great 4 seasons climate. I mow the lawn just before putting my Christmas decorations in the yard the end of November and start eyeing it seriously about the middle of March. If I wait till april to mow, I've waited too long and have to rake and play 'catch-up' for weeks.

Right now I'm squishing through my yard and garden as we've had about 3" of rain in the last 48 hrs. Needless to say, stuff is green!

Here's a picture I took yesterday...right after the rain.

Purty! Coral honeysuckle?

Is that the name? I was just going to post and ask that question?

It looks like a honeysuckle to me! Sure is beautiful! Nice pic! Enter that one in the contest!

As to the high-speed internet issue. We live ~2 miles from town (although the city has annexed everything around us, and I suspect we'll get a letter in the next few weeks, apprising of plans to annex our subdivision, too.) We have the choice of cable for TV and/or internet, DSL and ISDN through the phone lines, and satellite for internet/TV. Four years ago, there was no cable (TV or internet), no DSL or internet via satellite.

Four miles down the road (still in the same county), we're looking at property where we *might* have the option of DSL or satellite for internet - no ISDN or cable (TV or internet.)

The spottiness of coverage makes it difficult to use high-speed internet as a criterion, unless you're just wanting to know it's available in the general vicinity, and you can make it a "deal-breaker" for considering particular properties or homes.

(P.S., I remember having cable TV as a kid in Colorado 30 years ago - it was a necessity just get the local channels when you live 100-200 miles from Springs and Denver, and your TV signal is trying to overcome that long stretch of foothills ;o)

LadyAspen,

Get your DH on the internet and tell him to go shopping for places in the US. Of course we are all going to say we love where we live, and have our own reasons for it.

The only way you will both find a place that you both will like to plant yourselves in is to actually go look. Look at weather, neighborhoods, crime, schools, community etc.......

Just stay in the US, ok? lol! (canada looks tempting!)

I am in the Dallas area, and even though I love my home state, I would not recommend it for what you are looking for. I would have to recommend Southern Missouri, North Arkansas, Far Eastern Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Western North Carolina areas. Do a web search for "high speed internet" and one of those states and see which cities come up. Also, I know alot of people who live in North Georgia think it is Gardening Paradise.

Terry's right about spotty high speed internet. We have all of those to some degree, but be sure to check at each particular home about coverage areas. We can get DSL...but my neighbor 4 doors down is out of range.

As far as the honeysuckle goes....I just call it pink honeysuckle. My Uncle Dick brought a cutting of his down to Mom's about 15 years ago and when she sold the farm, I took cuttings of all of her treasured flowers. Uncle Dick is no longer with us, so I can't ask him.

If anyone has a definite ID, I'll put it in the PDB.

I really have to agree with Terry and sweezel.

But, do your homework on the internet, just as you have started it here!!!

This message was edited May 2, 2004 9:06 PM

Here it is, Mel...

http://www.briartech.com/latespring/coral/pcoral.htm

Yep Shoe, that's it. Thanks!

now let's not forget this little southern belle that needs to go home........!!!!!!!!!!

Karrie, then I recommend TN or KY.

I recommend Virginia - the area west of Richmond is great. Wonderful seasons and good growing conditions. The mountains (maybe hills to you since you're in CO-LOL) are beautiful. Albemarle County was voted the best place to live in the US. I would recommend Nelson county (right next to Albemarle) since Albemarle is pretty expensive (believe it or not, lots of hollywood stars live there). Good Luck w/ your search.

check out this link! I saw this on the news last night

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4909932/

Go to Findyourspot.com - put in all your criteria and you will get several pages of suggested places to live with detailed information about each community.

Cattknap,

Thank you very much for the findyourspot.com link. DH and I took their quiz and now have 24 places to research. Very good tool.

Thanks a bunch!

Sandy - Lady Aspen

Hey, I took the test at "KnowYourSpot.com" too... it's quite interesting!

Just found this thread and while my first inclination in reading your requests for the environment, weather and technology was to say Kansas City. BUT.....I read on. And to be completely honest with myself I vote with Copperbaron. Chapel Hill/Raleigh/Durham/Cary area in North Carolina is a gardening paradise. Only visited there frequently one summer a few years back, but fell in love. I will say this though....if you ask for humidity you might want to put some specifics around that statment. Humidity can be 50% to 99% in what people will call a "humid" environment. In Research Triangle Park that Copperbaron mentioned I think I changed my clothing 3 times in one day because it was so humid. That was in June. I'd hate to see what it was like in August.

Seriously though Kansas City is about as midwest as you can get and we get 4 wonderful seasons. In the 'burbs where I live, crime is very low to non-existent and on the Kansas side of the state line we're one of the fastest growing areas of the country. Aviation is king here with a smattering of other technology industries. Plus you'd be fairly close to your family in OK. We do have the clay soil Terry mentioned earlier although not to the extent they have in OK I think. We are the breadbasket of America so gardening is good here for the most part. I also think southern Nebraska or Iowa might be nice areas to look at. Ohio has tons of DG'ers that call it home so gardening absolutely has to be A+ with all that former glacier silt deposited across the state. And with the sheer number of big-medium sized cities in OH there's gotta be some high tech stuff there.

I say do some research, start traveling if you can afford to do so to your top 3 or 5 locales, and see what grabs both you and DH's heart.

I would never live in tornado zone. sorry

LOL!!! Karrie---I've lived here 39 years and have yet to see a tornado or be in the same town as a tornado.