Trade Lists...

I guess I'll just keep my own favorite and not so favorite traders list. All someone has to do to get off my not so favorite list is to complete their trade... easy enough in my opinion... same way it would be easy to get an incomplete off of a record if there were such a record here.

I emailed the people in question within the last week asking when they intended to complete my trades... not a one replied.

One person told me that some are notoriously slow, however, I would hope that one would complete pending trades before beginning new ones, and that has not been the case.

I know it's a "delicate" subject, but I think it is up to all of us to hold accountable those who do not complete their trades--and just because someone is a prolific poster, and does a lot of trades, doesn't make them immune or unaccountable for not completing a trade with someone like me, and I think in my case, that is what some of these folks might think. My question remains... how many others have they done this to.... with no way to check... we might never know.

I also think it's up to us as a community NOT to start new trades with people who have trades outstanding. I know personally, someone wanted to trade with me, that I knew had an outstanding trade since July. I refused. If we all did that, what would they do?

My opinion might not be the most popular opinion, however, I still think it's something that bears consideration.

For those who think I should just turn the other cheek... I have, I don't expect to get anything from these folks, particuarly when they find out that whoever asks can have my list. My goal is to keep these people from taking from others, and not sending anything in return, whether intentional or not.

Melissa - well said, well said. There are some folks out there who think trading is one-way, receive. I have at least one more name to add to your list. *grin*

Melissa, that is really neat how you have your favorite trader list and not so favorite list on your member page. Very interesting...

Glad I am on the good list. :-)

Davena

I'm going to try this and see what happens! Being very new I have had no bad experiences, but when I do I think this will be my plan. I will keep a list of names of users that I have had a problem with on my machine here. I will check every week or so to see if they have any posts in the forums (one of the nice features here is the ability to search through posts members have made or participated in) and anytime I see that user I will post a note to that forum reminding them that they owe me whatever it is they owe me. This will serve as a reminder if they have honestly just forgotten, and it will also let the person who posted the forum know that they might want to be careful. I will not be insulting because eventually I expect to forget something or have the spam blocker in my email blocking something that I wanted to receive. I also will wait at least a month or so before I question anyone in someone else's forum, but it does seem to me to be an okay way to deal with this matter. If the person has made an honest mistake or had a problem they can post in that same forum as well as contacting me so that everyone will know they are resolving the problem, and if not it will be interesting to see their reaction. I do not think that there is any way for Dave to begin to be able to handle this without making everything much more complicated that it need be. I do believe is someone has intentionally cheated you that you have a right to add a post to something that they have posted too as long as you are not insulting with you comments.
I am hoping that this method will work for me if I ever have a prolbem.
Thanks for letting me add my two cents worth
Alice

I am a new member to Daves in the last month. I have had 2 trades so far and they both went very well. We wrote each other when our plants arrived & think we gave what we promised to give.
I had read a post where people were saying to a person wanting to trade....we know that you are a fake or something similar. To tell you the truth, I had never traded any time before & felt somewhat leary as to whether to do it or not.
I for one would like to have a way of knowing the chronically 'traders that don't send'. I am not talking about the occasional problems a person might have that would stop them from following through. Emergencies happen.
Could there be a list of e-mails, that if you would want to be notified of the 'chronic violator' of trades are, others would be free to write you. That way it wouldn't be a public announcement or alot of record keeping....but at the same time would give us new members a hint of who it is not totally safe to trade with.
Margie

I chose to put up my not so favorite traders list just to warn others, and maybe to encourage them to send the trade.
Since, it doesn't seem like there will be anything similar for all to use.

Mixed reactions maybe, who knows. But, after that list went up, one of my trades was completed, happy to say. However, I've had a couple of people ignore me when I queried about trades they had offered... I guess they don't want to deal with me for fear of ending up on my "not so favorite traders list"

Important to note that I did NOT list people I had traded with whose trade I might have been disappointed with, I ONLY listed the trades that were outstanding for over 60 days, and that is all I was suggesting be implemented here.

I don't know that posting in a thread is such a good way to go... and could end up sparking more problems than it is worth.

I will offer this to others though:

If you'd like your own links to your Favorite and Not Favorite traders to put on your homepage, I'll upload it for you if you don't have your own server or a free website you use.

I think that your not so favorite traders list makes sense to me, if they had not ignored you they would not be one the list, because I am guessing that you would not have put anyone on there if they had even emailed you about a problem on their end with completing a trade!!!! You are far too generous for that, and its too bad that anyone would hesitate to trade with you for that reason. I wish I had more to trade at the moment you have had some wonderful things for trade that I wish I could have taken advantage of. I agree that posting in a forum may cause a problem but if I have waited a respectable lenght of time and attempted more than once to contact a person than if they get upset at least I will be getting some response out of them even if its to tell me to take a flying leap.
Its unfortunate that a few bad apples have to make it so difficult for the rest.
Thanks
Alice

Thanks Melissa,
That is a big help to me & I'll bet others also. I think it is a good idea. I do have a business web-site, but I don't know if I can tie it into doing this ?!
I don't have time now....but any hints would be appreciated. I have only had 2 trades, so I could start my favorable list while it is still fresh on my mind. Maybe if a number of us did this, we could see a pattern of certain people on many lists & we probably would realize that the one timer probably had a good excuse for doing it. It is the repeated offenders I am looking to know about.
Margie

Well done, Melissa. I have been fortunate to only have one bad trader - I think he's the one on your list that you didn't have the exact name. I'll forward you his name and different emails so you can update your list if he's the same person.

If more people did things like this, it would do a world of good - communities that self-police and publicize problems can reduce future problems - ex. if someone reads your list and then gets an offer from a person, they'll scrutinze the offer more carefully.

I like your approach - you're being very honest, including defining your conditions - NO delivery > 60 days, especially with reminders. On my part, I am outstanding on a few seed trades, but I have explained this to the recipients (the goal being for more seeds to ripen so I can send more seeds).

I think the most important thing to remember is that the list is ONLY people that have made no effort at all after a very long time. And then we have to hope something bad has not happened to them. :( Things could get ugly in a hurry if people got badmouthed for small trades, or the accidental wrong plant, a worm in the roots, etc. Let's not forget to use mail call when you are happy with what you find in your mail box!! :)

Badseed - you're so right. It's not about the small things we forget as much as it is patterns of bad trades.

Heck, if I got a live worm in the roots, that says to me it was freshly dug! :)

Margie, one of your trades was me! I'm glad you think things went well, and I am pleased with what you sent.

The person who was accused of being a fake was busted arranging new trades without fulfilling her previous trades or communicating with those people with whom she had arranged previous trades. This person was being deliberately dishonest, and was counting on silence to continue being dishonest. That's not the same thing as being forgetful, busy, etc, and you have nothing to worry about if you approach your trades with an honest heart.

Weew! Glad I made the favorite! LOL I know it took a long time, but I tried my best to keep in contact! I think what you have done is a good idea there Melissa!

Good Indashade,
As a matter of fact I put your 2 rooted dl's in the ground this morning and one of the other prolifs is already starting to get a root.
This is a nice way to increase our plants! Margie
PS the other trade was with naturepatch ! and I gave Little Grapette from her its permanent home yesterday also.

I think things should remain as is.......A friendly,trusting and caring bunch of people with dirt under our fingernails....
When i have a bad experiance I just Chalk it up to life........
...............DID ya ever think of the reverse situation,the nogoodnick that says...they don't owe your postage back because they never recieved what you sent????
.......
Hugz to all of you my friendz,
.......shirley >^,,^< SB

scooterbug, that's what tracking is for ... tho it's not foolproof either. *sigh*

Anyway, I'm with Melissa on this issue. But let me say that my email has been somewhat unreliable just here lately. Just because someone hasn't responded to your email doesn't always mean they are ignoring you. I think posting in Mail Call or in forums they frequent is a useful, too, before relegating them to the Not So Favorite (NSF?)list. Just something innocent like "Looking for sundry" or "Hey! sundry!" in the subject, and "get in touch with me" as the message.
Then they might respond "I've been trying to, but my email keeps bouncing ....". Just a suggestion. Of course, this would only work with DG subscribers ...

Anyway, I'm not on either list, but it's not for fear of ending up on the NSF. It's just that I don't have anything to tempt with ... YET!

Cheri'

I too wish there was some way to know ahead of time who fulfills trades and who doesnt.....I have been burned more times than I like but I now trade with the attitude "don't trade more than your willing give for free" and always use delivery confirmation

but on the other hand,I hope I'm not on anyones naughty list because I am the most unorganized person you've ever met,I loose everything,misplace things and just plain ole forget.I also work 60 hours a week AND run a farm....
And my email was messed up for 2 months and I lost all my addresses and letters I had stored,including all my plant trades......

and ya know ...sometimes life just gets in the way

I know I'm not alone on these points and hate to see someone get a bad reputation just because things got out of control......
while my computer was screwed up ,people were emailing me and I couldn't read the letters,also during the week,I don't even look at most of my e-mail, I only read and answer my e-mail on weekends ,unless my DH tells me there is something important.
I have tried using the trade tracker but never kept it up,plus it was a pain in the butt for me to get to it and get the stuff typed in,and I usually don't have time to do it anyhow
(no offense Dave,remember you're dealing with a ditsy blond here)

What someone might want to do is set up something like the DG address list,purely voluntary,if there is a trade problem,like a trade that went bad,have a section for both to tell their side.One time only,100 words or less,no running arguments,no one else butting in,so both sides are seen,if someone ends up in there repeatedly you know there's a problem.......just one idea.....

I guess for me it's still about sharing what I have not seeing what I get in return or whether it was fair or equal. I just delight in the idea that seeds or plants that were in my garden are now scattered across the country. Brenda

The problem is not some individual who through no fault of his or her own was unable to complete a trade, or even communicate about it: it is about someone who deliberately sets out to fill his or her garden with plants and has no intention of ever sending out his or her end of the trade. Such a person may be seen having no problem posting and emailing to set up new trades. It is the person who makes a habit of this behavior and disappointing a large number of traders here with whom we might be concerned.

I have been trading on garden forums for 5 years now. My garden is filled with plants that are difficult to find even to purchase. It is unscientific but I can break it down like this:
50% of my trades were as agreed and satisfactory
20% disappointing but they sent something
10% were a waste of good postage or never showed up
20% were beyond my wildest dreams and were truly awesome.
My advice is to forget about the bad trades and move on.They will always be a few people who are looking to take advantage and no good or bad trader list will stop them.I know the people I wnn't trade with because of various reasons but I don't advertise it. The person who swoops in and scams people is gone usaually as quick as they came and are few and far between. Don't know how people manage to organize and send out 65 boxes. Whew, that does'nt even sound like fun to me. As for regular posters taking advantage. Well someday you will have something they really desire and when they ask you can have the personal satisfaction of declining graciously, but they'll know. Good luck and focus on the good stuff.

Loretta



This message was edited Nov 11, 2003 12:02 AM

Well said, Loretta! I totally agree.

i agree i have made some last 2 months got stiffed deluxe by 3 maybe 4th.. they ignore e mails or no longer got that e mail addy..... but there are sweet kind wonderfull traders.. if i forget tell me the chemo does that to memory.. its to petty to cheat anyone over seeds plants . they should be accountable for it.thanks tell amonst yourselves... warn somone. a loss is a loss

This message was edited Nov 18, 2003 3:21 PM

Ah yes ,I believe that we all have been stiffed in one way or another during trades.

....The only thing I can say is 'Live & Learn",and I do not mean this harshly.

......I have only been here since summer and I have my own personal 'Iggy' (ignore) list and a 'Watch-Out' list for peeps I have unsatisfiably traded with in the past.

.....I am responsible for my decisions and I am aware of the risks. If a trade represents a high value, money wise, I just get the postage up front.

So Goes Life ;~P
§

Ok... I have a silly question, as I am one who can never say no, how do you politely tell them no, if they want in for trade or for postage again?

yeah, that's uncomfortable, isn't it?

Assuming that nothing ugly transpired on the original trade, I guess I would say something along the lines of "you should send that along with (whatever they owe) and when I get it, I'll send you yours"

I wouldn't expect to hear anymore from them about it, but would be pleasantly surprised if I did receive both trades and could then reciprocate.

Does that sound right?

Cheri'

Sure does! Thanks for the idea. I just never know what to say.

I have been getting more request from non subscribers here lately and can't tell them no. I feel like it is just a little postage so if they don't send what they promised I can live without it.

Yardbird, you could tell them you would like to give subscribers first chance at whatever it is but if there are no takers then you will get back to them. But, who knows, maybe by trading with them you will make want them want to become subscribers? I guess its whatever you feel comfortable with.

When I have inquiries about seeds, I usually do some research. Is the inquirer looking at my PDB photos or from my trade list? Is this a subscriber? When did they sign up? What contributions have been made to the website... PDB entries, Watchdog entries, ... threads started, etc.?

If the inquirer is a member subscribed since 2001 or 02, they can have any of my seeds for SASE. If they've been contributing information or photos to the PDB, they can have any of my seeds subscribed or not, SASE or otherwise. They are contributors.

If my research shows that the inquirer is unsubscribed, joined the day of inquiry, they can have some of my SASE offerings, and I will wait for SASE and determine which are available. Trades or even SASE's should require some effort by the person requesting seeds. This effort could be toward the trade or toward Dave's Website, i.e. to everyone.

For those who don't know how to say no, to be honest you don't have to. Dave has made it so that your email addy is protected until you reply.

I've hardly done any trading this year, I state that I'm not up to trading at the moment on my list but still get requests. I do write back in many instances where I simply can't go ahead, I thank them for the email, state I'm not trading at the moment and make a remark that there are great traders here and good luck with their search. 99% of the time the asker is fine about that.

What really annoys me though is when I get demands for seed or plants. This earns my flat refusal even if it's something I have an abundance of that no one else wants, I'm more than willing to share when I have the time, but a bad attitude won't get them anywhere. At the end of the day, these are your plants and seeds, you are not obliged to trade or send for sae, you don't have to face the person (which makes saying no easier) and you don't have to reply if you don't want to.

I have read most of these threads on this topic. Some people are worried about how one could constructively rate a person. Why not make a thread on the good traders and a person will not be allowed a possible negative comment. If you see a certain persons name on the list a few times, it would lead one to feel like trading with that person. Like what Weezingreens just stated check them out on the DB or threads. I have been on less than 1 year and have had 99% great rating here at this end. But have only had 25-30 trades. If it is a new person, just take the time to see when they signed up and do a search on their trading practice. If not pros or cons. Go for it, if its something you would like. We need to have trust on here. Some of the people on here that has been here for sometime with more than likely have glowing ratings under their nicks, and someday it maybe yours. Please a DG senior member what do you think?