2015 Seed Starting, Part 5

birder sorry we confused you! blomma posted in another forum about using clothespins (the ones with the springs) to prop up / open the humidity domes gradually

Do you know which forum the clothies pin is on? I'd like to read it.

Do you know which forum the clothies pin is on? I'd like to read it.

blomma - thanks, i will stop worrying about the algae and just clean it up as I go when i am able.


I do have another question. I planted some multi-pelleted bacopa and it is just now sprouting. There are several plants growing together in each cell, really close together. What is the best way to separate those seedlings? I would like to save as many as possible. I only had 10 multi-pellets.

Thanks
lilmiss44

The best way to do this, lilmiss, in my experience, is to wet the cell and then dump the contents onto a damp paper towel. And then I use a pencil, the point, to separate the seedlings and move them to their new cells, which are prepared in advance. Try not to handle them with your hands. I make an indentation in the new cell with the pencil, gently lift the separated seedlings into the indentation with the pencil tip, and then add seed mix and firm it up. I keep a number 2 pencil or two solely for this purpose.

I do this all the time, because I have older seed and put several in cells, and sometimes they surprise me with 90% germination.

Does this make sense?

Yes, DonnaMack, that does make sense and I will try that. I have been reading that i should not be handling them, but they are so little and so close together, i couldn't think of a way to get them apart without handling them. I dont know how many seeds were in each multi-pellet, (i think i remember something about 4-5), but i planted a row of ten and all ten have several seedlings. I am thinking that is pretty good germination rate.
Thanks so much.

Thanks, Kathy!

I use a toothpick or a thin bamboo skewer to separate tiny seedlings. First I poke a hole in the new cell, then stir around gently with the pointed end. to tease the seedlings apart. Once they are separated, I wet the end of skewer so the plant will adhere to it, place it in the hole, and drip a little water on it to settle it in. I use the skewer to close the hole around the seedling, then press the mix gently with my fingers and water again to make sure of good contact around the root.

If the seedlings are larger, the operation is less delicate and fingers are fine. You may lose some if the roots are too long and tangled.

The smaller the root, the less shock, as long as you are carefull that it is settled properly into the planting mix. I do this all the time for many different types, including petunias and bacopa. I like to sow in clusters, then separate what comes up. This way I have no empty cells, and in my limited space that's very important.

Good luck!

Hahaha Donna, we cross posted! And gave almost the identical advice, lol. Must be something to it...

Great minds... LOL!

I wish you all wouldn't fret sooo much about seperating your babies. They can handle being in close quarters better than you think!!! Look how many babies are in some of my pots! If I have the time and room I'll pot them along but if not they can remain this way for months!!!! Sometimes I won't get to potting things on til I can get outside in the spring. So save your babies and let them get some girth...... When I'm ready, I personally allow the pot to dry a bit and then dump the whole pot out gently and then separate sections, and then individuals. Potting things up and then misting the soil followed by a gentle watering. If I think they look a bit peaked I cover them with a plastic dome for a day or two if needed (transplants shock can happen but they quickly recover.......). Personally I have lost VERY few plants doing such. They are MORE forgiving than you think!!!!!!

As of today I have 189 pots seeded, 169 have germinated, (all with multiples of seeds (some have 50-100 seeds). (sorry these are last years pix as examples of my multiples in pots) Some of the annuals I started early are Heliotrope and Salvia farinacea Victoria and am excited that they came up good and will have soo many to plant this season!!!!! I'm ready to be outside again! But this morning it started out at 0ish and snow. We broke our snow record for the month, usually 6 or 7", but this year in the last half of the month we got 22.2", one of our least snowiest months. And more snow this weekend to bring in March.

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 8:37 PM

Kathy,
I agree with most of what you wrote, except for one thing.

When plants are not separated at an early stage, it slows down their growth and they are more susceptible to transplanting shock. They do not like to share their growing space.

When I had many seedlings (before Deno) growing close together and I only wanted a few, I pinched out leaving them 1" apart as to not stunt their growth.

Well, I went ahead and separated them today. Wow, that was the most labor intensive work I have done. They were so little and the roots were very tangled. Hopefully they will live. I got 25 cells out of 10 multi-pellets. Not sure that is great, but if they live it will be ok.

Kathy, I really dont have much choice to split the cells as I already have the seeds in 72 cell trays. They will either stay together, get split, or get thinned.

Not sure I will try that splitting again. I am pooped! Thanks for all the suggestions. Pretty much used everyone of them!

I just finished planting my tomatoes.12 cells, 3 seeds per cell, 12 varieties. I'm pooped and my back is screaming at me! I HAD intended to plant my 2 whole flats, but the marigolds and asters will just have to wait until tomorrow!

Y'all remember how eager I was to start my seeds and my counting down until FINALLY I could start them?? Thursday was that day. Only it didn't happen: after I finished moving furniture and re-setting up my gro station up off the floor, I was just too dang tired!!

What I've learned so far: I still needed that plastic even with my gro station up off the ground, those chains to raise/lower the shoplight are a REAL pain (there's GOT to be something better than chains!!), try out my new mister beforehand, plug in thermostats several hours beforehand (ditto the heat mats) and, last but MOST important: have Scotch tape on hand to re-seal seed envelopes!!

I'm amazed at how MUCH each of you sow at a time! Hopefully, tomorrow the surfacxe sowing will be much faster!

Started a couple of kinds of heliotrope today. It requires high germination levels and light so I wet coffee filters, put the seed on them and put the in zip lock bags. Years ago I would simply put them on top of the fridge but it isn't warm enough so I put them on a heat mat.

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 8:47 PM

Yup, that's what I do too, upside down flat for those trays I want closer to the lights. That way they aren't reaching for the lights. So far only 1 tray raised.

So far of the 189 pots started, 176 germinated..... Started another tray so the count should be 221, but will be a few days before anything begins germinating. LOL, See my method works for me...lol.

Donna, which of the Heliotropes are you doing? I only had seed for H. arborescens Dwarf Marine. Have you ever saved seed from them....hmm, maybe I should try that one of these years. lol. I still want some of the taller ones and also the white. But I hate having to buy annual plants, but might just have to for some of those that I want. The only one that is usually available locally is the one I'm growing.

Heliotrope Blue Wonder, which is an F1 hybrid from Harris Seed and heliotrope Marine from three companies (overkill), Jl Hudson, Garden Makers and Johnny's Selected Seeds. I am not certain what the difference is supposed to be so I marked the cells. Harris does not sell it anymore, and wow, are their seeds overpriced! White heliotrope seems Unavailable as seed. I ordered it in the past from Glenn Varner of Flower Scent Gardens (who sadly closed - WONDERFUL company from which I also got the rare white Bouncing Betty), and from Select Seeds. Select Seeds has some neat heliotrope seeds and plants. You mentioned a tall one? There is a Heliotrope 'Old Fashioned' that is 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall that is available as a plant or a seed, as well as Marine. It is described as "rare". Hum..... Look at the bottom right of this link - available as seed or plant. Hum...

http://www.selectseeds.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/034533.2.13272223513574736637

I used to raise multiple plants. I just found a fun photo (OK, maybe only to me). It is of a heliotrope plants raised from seed but not yet blooming with an overwintered cutting of geranium Red Rosebud from Select Seeds. This is from my former house. I order geraniums from Select Seeds, take cutting and overwinter the parent. The second pic is Select Seeds geranium Appleblossum from cutting. If you do it properly, every year you have more. The third is heliotrope marine from seed that is starting to bud, in a pot with Tidal Wave Silver - also grown from seed.

Thought I would share some pix of my babies. I have quite a variety. Also potted up some troika orange and cream nasturtiums and cupid pink sweet peas today. Been a busy day.

You're quite a Mom! What have you got there?

well lets see, from left to right i got

1st pic
candy showers mix snapdragon
asarina snapdragon

2nd pic
Tidy Tips
Livingstone daisy

3rd pic
baby's breath
Geranium tornado mix
Geranium ringo deep scarlet
you can barely see them, but also have brachyscome and verbena

4th pic
pansies - yellow, orchid rose tri color, and blue

I definitely have my hands full. I also have some others sprouting but they are pretty little still. Ill post those when they get a little bigger.

This message was edited Mar 9, 2015 9:59 AM

lilmiss44, you are amazing!

Blomma, I do just what your friend did. I even have a small abelia in a pot in front of the same kind of picture window. That's where Red Rosebud is. I'm fascinated that your friend made them bloom only in winter. What a wonderful idea!

This message was edited Mar 2, 2015 9:07 AM

lilmiss congrats on your seedlings! this batch is going strong!

I got my two flats (144 cells) finally planted. . domes on, under lights. . now is the hard part: waiting patiently for them to DO something!! It took me two days to do these two flats, so I'm thinking NEXT year I'm gonna do like wwkathy and just do pots for germinating and THEN put seedlings into my flats! Although I got faster as time went on, THIS way is too labor-intensive and not efficient!

Oh, yeah: planted 3 tiny seeds, with tweezers, to a cell: 12 varieties of tomato, 5 varieties of French marigolds and one variety of asters.

I'm gonna be so BUMMED if they don't sprout. . .

BetNC...lol, remember this is your first time..... You will probably do better than you think!!!!!

lilmiss....wow those are looking great!!! I'm curious are the zonal geraniums from seed also? Do you collect them or buy?

Donna...darn you!!!! LOL. I just placed my order from Select Seeds. OUCH! LOL. Got both plants and seeds. Some of those Heliotrope were only available as plants. An ordered something I've not heard of before nor in the catalog....Anoda 'Snow Cup'. And Pam I picked up seeds for the pink Ceratotheca. (so hopefully will have those in the future to share!)

Germinated since 2/25/15: Stachys Macrantha; Aquil.: solid blue short spur, solid pink short spur, McKenna mix; Sisyrinchium Pole Star white; Deph.: dk blue/blk bee, grandiflorum 18" mix colors, (started more but not germinated yet; Penstemon X Mexicale 'Pikes Peak Purple, pink tall but unk var.; Dracoephalum not sure if imberbe or moldavicum; Nicotiana: mutabilis, sylvestris; Salvia sclarea var. turkestanica Alba; Anthemis Golden Margarite this was from a trade and packet says 36" so not sure if it's the same type I sowed earlier (mine only got to 18").

Oh, yes, I THRASH myself for leading you astray!!!

I'm looking at the tall heliotrope and I grow some of my own strawberries but are intrigued by theirs...

LOL, I think I have a long stick out back! Yes, that's one of those catalogs that just speaks to me...lol.
(But don't they all?!)

Blomma, haha! ya think i got enough! My goal is to sell 100 12" baskets / thats about 800 plants. Actually surprised i had such germination since I dont have a clue about what i am doing. Learning as I go. But, I grew up in a small town in the country, maybe that helps! LOL.

DonnaMack, BetNC- thanks, Ill take the compliments! keeps me going on this new adventure of mine.

Kathy, all the plants are from seed, bought them from swallowtailgardenseeds.

I am new to all this so am still learning. I am familiar with some of the flowers because the big stores Home Depot, Lowes, etc sell them. Not really sure what the difference is between tender and hardy. I believe those geraniums are considered tender for my zone. so many words thrown around for flowers, tender, hardy, zonal. Enough to drive one crazy.

All my plants will go into hanging baskets, not in the garden, so that is what i tried to go by when i bought seeds. I am just hoping they will just bloom this year. Frost date is 20April in oregon. They still have some growing to do before I transplant. I just happened to plant the nasturtiums and sweet peas too early.

I am learning a lot from this forum. yall got flowers i have never heard of before. color me green with envy. I appreciate all the advise i have gotten here and am happy to be able to come here and learn from everyone.

That's what we're here for....to help each other learn what we are lacking info for. Sure you can read about many things, but they don't usually share all the tips and tricks.... That's what I love about Dave's!

Sorry about the confusion...Geraniums are either annual or perennial. Those you are growing are annuals tho can be brought in for the winter. Zonal refers to the ringed marking on the leaves of some of yours. Pix is of Geranium Rozanne (perennial), tho not a great pix as it only shows a few flowers (purple). Maybe someone here has more pix of the perennial type.

And don't be afraid to chime in on things you don't know...just ask! And next year, come to Dave's and ask for seed that you might be looking for. Make sure your early enough to get them started...... A few stamps are less $$$ than seeds from the companies (I know I just spent $30 on seed today.....lol) A couple of great catalogs to get (for pix or info) T&MSeeds.com, SelectSeeds.com. (T&M is great as it includes a lot of starting info. (temps, light, days to germinate, etc)).

I wish you success in your endevors!!!!!

ok, panicking now!

First off: did I plant my French marigolds right?? they had spear-shaped seed and I laid each one on the medium, lightly sprinkledf dry medium over them, then spritzed and covered with a dome. Should I have stuck their tips down?? I can see some of the seed just sitting on top of the medium: should I sprinkle them again until each seed is coveredd??

Secondly : am I spritzing too much / too little?? At first, I was happy: a fine mist was on the inside of the domes; then I went to lunch: I came back to water droplets running down the sides! OH NO!!! I took the domes off and wiped them dry, medium was a bit on the dry side so I spritzed and covered, back under the lights (I HAVE no south facing window or amy other window that lets in natural light and these seeds say light is required for germination). Again, the light misting . . . .but upon further investigation, only on the sides: the tops of the domes remains clear!!

and 2 non-flower (tomasto) germination questions: since they requi8re dark to germinate, I put them in the darkest room in my home BUT I must go thru there regularly to get to the bathroom. Is this blast of light gonna damager my tomatoes?? Should I up-end a protective box over them?
TWO:the germination temperature range is 70 to 75, yet the the4rmostat (set for 70) usually reads 67, 68, 69. The heat mat is on my carpeted linoleum floor (which covers the concrete slab dir3ectly on top of the ground), so I figured since the carpet feels cold to MY feet . . . the heat mat must be struggling: I put my plastic-backed fluffy bathmat under the heat mat, for an extra insulating layer. Should I also set the temperature to 72??

I apologize for throwing around the word geranium without explaining the difference. Not so long ago, I found it confusing myself! Zonal geraniums , which are now called pelargoniums, are actually perennials grown as annuals because they are tender.Zonal referred to the markings on their leaves. Their hardiness is generally zones 9-10. There are also ivy leafed and scented leaf geraniums, as well as Regal geraniums, known as Martha Washington geraniums. The most important thing about all of these is that they are not cold tolerant, although you can, as many do, bring them inside for the winter. Examples of some of these are the ones referred to above; Appleblossum and Red Rosebud.

Hardy geraniums are perennial in cold climates. Below are pictures of hardy geraniums. They overwinter in my zone, which is 5a, or 5b. The last picture shows them in November.

This message was edited Mar 3, 2015 7:16 AM

LOL, I almost forgot about the other types.

BetNC, you're doing fine, breath!!!! LOL! And you don't need to move your tomtoes to darkness, can bring them back under the lights as the warmth will help germination, just make sure the seed is covered and also the Cosmos are probably ok. If you consider they germinate just laying on top of the soil outdoors from what was dropped on the ground from the previous season.......easy peasy! The Cosmos should germinate quickly, 1-3 days-ish......... I'm just wondering if you started them a bit early as they grow quickly......and you won't be planting them out for 2 months yet???? Remember seeds are cheap!!! And if you need more Cosmos seed just let me know, I have bags of it!!!!!!! Might also have some 'mater seed too if needed.

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 6:48 PM

This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 10:04 AM

wwkathy I sowed French marigolds, chinese asters and good ol American 'maters! The 'maters SPOSED to be started 6-8 weeks before my last frost, the other two 8 weeks before. No Cosmos. The 'maters I sowed Saturday, but just got the temperature in range this evening " after I put them on my bathmat AND set their thermostat to 72. . . temp has been between 70.3 and 72, so all is good now for my 'maters.

Both the marigold and the asters were sown Sunday, with their germination range 14-21 days. They require light, so I had them under the lights but when I took them off and "put them to bed" *flat of marigolds goes on a heat mat at night set @ 70 but reads about 67-ish: my A/C is lowered to 62 at night but temp range for marigolds is 65-75* flat of asters just . . . COPES (their temp range is 60-70.

When I hooked up thed marigold flat for the night, they read 73! so BOTH flats must be getting hot under my lights (I'm going out tomorrow to get longer braces, to be able to raise the lights up more).

When I get up to go to the bathroom (side effect of my pain meds: extreme thirst) I can't help but check on all my seeds. which doesn't help!!

all y'all who calmly manage to juggle WWWWWWWWAAAAAAY more than my measly 2 flats just AMAZE me!!! I'm close to being a nervous wreck!!

Hi Bet- I think 2 flats is a lot for someone who is new to all this. You have just spent the winter learning a tremendous amount about plants and seeds and biology and moisture and lighting and soil and technology and your thermostat and the different species needs. And you are still learning at a very rapid rate. Of course you spend a lot of time thinking about it.
Just think how easy it will be next winter. The basic stuff will be done. You will understand what you are doing, and have your equipment figured out already. Then you might venture out and try another species or two. This is how the jugglers got into it too. Actually one reason this is such a fun hobby is the endless ways to do it, and endless species to play around with. It's good for our brains! Of course the end result of home grown tomatoes and a lovely flower garden help too.

Kathy and DonnaMack - no problem, it is good for me to hear how flowers are considered different. I am familiar with the annual and perennial, and since I am doing baskets i am considering everything an annual at this point.

As I understand it now, (please let me know if i am wrong on this) -

Annual = tender
Perennial = Hardy, except in certain zones, in which they are grown as annuals.

I will do more research on my specific geraniums so I am prepared to give a buyer more info at time of purchase.

BetNC as a newbie myself I feel your anxiety, excitement, worry, and frustrations along with you. Sounds to me like you are doing fine! I chose to live in the excitement and let nature do the rest. I live by 'plant a seed and watch it grow'. I have many flats, probably too many at this point, but I myself seem to never do things 1/2 way. It has not been easy, and I have had many problems to overcome.

I dealt with excessive drying in the beginning and lost about 3 1/2 flats myself. It can be very frustrating and takes a little time, trying different things to figure it out. For me, I had a heat mat that was "not on a thermostat", and the flats were under lights too. I could not figure out why I had so much moisture, but the soil was dry. It's enough to drive one crazy! I turned off my heat mat, because of the suggestions here, and did find the lights are enough for me. Personally, I don't like heat mats anymore. When I have a flat with a dome and it gets beady, I take it completely off for a little while (couple hours), wipe it down, spritz lightly before I put it back on, and just keep an eye on the tray and do it all over again the next day if I need to. Some here say they vent, but my situation is not set up to allow for that. I did what I could that works for me. I take all the suggestions, tips, research and consider my own situation ( i am growing in a cool garage ) and apply what I can, and believe nature will do the rest.

If I had to plant something that required darkness near my lights, i just covered the flat with a few layers of newspaper to keep out the light. i just checked it daily.

Along with my successes, I still have many frustrations. I have planted some Five Spot flowers on the 14th Feb which have still yet to sprout. I have no idea why, but just guessing they will when they are ready. I followed the directions for them, so I will just keep them moist and wait. I lost a tray of Begonias, and Impatiens do to drying, have replanted and they are just now sprouting and have heard they take a long time to grow. It is very frustrating for me as I was wanting those to do well. One thing I have realized, is I cant make the seed sprout. I can try to create the conditions best for it, but in the end, I wait with excitement one day I will check and there will be a new sprout. Its like being a new mom!

I GOT SPROUTS!!!

Two of my marigold varieties, both mixes, have teeny tiny green threads coming from their "spear-like" seeds. This is only Day 2 and the germination range is 14-21 days:: also, the seeds sprouting are the ones in plain sight, just laying on the "soil".

One flat is only marigolds, one flat minus 12 cells is only asters and the 12 cells (two six-packs) are my maters. The marigolds spend the day under light and the night on a thermostat-controlled heat mat (germination temp 65-75). The asters spend day and night balanced on the kitchen sink, for natural sunlight from the window during the day. (They're sullenly NOT showing anything yet (germination temp 60-70). My 'maters are still in my dark bedroom, on a thermostat-controlled heat mat day and night germination time 5-10 days; germination temp 70-75).

I am still chewing the inside of my cheeks, waiting and hoping desperately for my 'maters to DO something!! After all, THEY were the reason I got into this in the first place!! I wanted to grow a tomatoe plant this summer, to pick and eat fresh tomatoes. When I learned how easy (HA!!!) it was to start a tomato plant from seed, I was hooked. One tomatoe plant grew into 12 different varieties and since marigolds were sposed to be a good companion plant. . that was one full flat. . . I guess I just don't have a good reason for "why the asters?"! But it's all the tomatoes fault, anyway!!

Good thing I bookmarked sites to buy tomato plants, just in case!

Dear Lilmiss,

You really do have it on a practical level, but just to be very precise:

Technically, an annual is a plant that germinates, blossoms, produces seed, and dies in one growing season. The dormant seed is what carries over, and blooms, year after year - not the original plant. They tend to develop in areas with short growing seasons.

A perennial plant is a plant that lives for more than two years. A lot of the plants we grow as annuals are TENDER, as you note above, and if not killed by cold will grow from its roots in successive years.

A perfect example: petunias. They are warm season perennials that we grow as annuals. I have actually grown these over the winter in a sunny windowsill.

You've got this! Party down!