North Creek Group Buy

Thanks so much, Aspen!

Aspen, what is the difference between a flat of 50 and a flat of LP50?

thanks!

I just thought of something. If NC mails the flats, do we pay sales tax? I wouldn't think so if the packages are mailed to Maryland. Pennsylvania has a 6% sales tax. That would offset in part the cost of shipping and handling. Aspenhill, do you recall what the shipping and handling cost was when you placed your order last year? If I recall from my exploratory calls with them, it was in the neighborhood of 15-20%, but I could be wrong.

Catmint: I was just looking at that - I gather the LPs are larger. North Creek says: "NEW SIZE! Learn more about the LP50 plug here. Our best low-maintenance native perennials and grasses are available in plugs designed to be planted directly in the ground. We offer a wide selection of Eastern US natives and their cultivars selected for beauty and durability. Two sizes are available for direct planting: deep LP50 plugs are 5 inches deep by 2 inches square and come 50 to a standard nursery tray. Many shallow-rooted plants are available in flats of 32 (3" by 2.5" square) and are also suited to planting in the ground. Our Landscape Plugs™ offer an exciting alternative for quick establishment of plants in landscapes and containers.
See http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plugs.landscapeplugs/index.htm

Sempervirens, thanks for the tip about the Pycnanthemum/mountain mint. North Creek has 2 plug varieties available, P. flexuosum and P. muticum. I definitely want some of these! :-) Anyone else interested?

Pycnanthemum flexuosum
Appalachian mountain mint
An aromatic, summer blooming, herbaceous perennial that produces silvery white, globular flowers on sturdy, upright stems. Blooming over a long period, flowers are prominently displayed above clean green foliage summer into fall. A good soil stabilizer, this species spreads via underground stems, but won’t take over the garden! Foliage develops an attractive red tinge in autumn. A larval host plant for the Gray Hairstreak Butterfly; incorporate along the perennial border, rain garden, or near the vegetable garden to entice pollinators.

Pycnanthemum muticum
Short-toothed mountain mint
We give up! So many of you claimed this mountain mint to be superior to Pycnanthemum virginianum that we decided to try it for ourselves. We like it! Its leaves are broader and more lustrous, bracts are silvery and very showy, flowers are pinkish and its habit is more compact. Nicely aromatic. This native is happiest at the wood's edge, so it is an excellent for a naturalized border or woodland garden. Mountain Mint is one of the best nectar sources for native butterflies, so butterfly gardeners can't do without this one!

Count me in, Catmint!

I was thinking I could use a couple for in containers, not as many as 1/2 a flat, maybe 1/4 of a flat have to go look and see how many are in a flat. Just wanted to shout out how really beautiful it is. I remember when I posted the pic of the one I got last year that several people commented on it and were interested in the plant.

Ok, I have consolidated plants of interest from the posts and put in the "reserved" post at the top of the thread. It includes the available plug sizes and who expressed interest. Check it out and post info about any you want to commit to a % of. Be sure to indicate the plug size and %. For example, I am interested in the following:

Geranium macrorrhizum 'Bevan's Variety' / 50 / - aspen (50 - 1/4%)
Viola walteri 'Silver Gem' / 32 or 72 / - aspen (32 - 1/4%)

If there is anything I've missed so far, just repost. I'll try to update daily.

Aspenhill I'd like

1/2 flat of the short toothed Mountain Mint size 50/ (1/2%)
1/4 flat of Allegheny Mountain Mint size 50 (1/4%)
1 flat viola Silver Gem" size 32 (4/4%)
1 flat Asclepias tuberosa size 50 (4/4%)
1 flat Asclepias incarnata size 50 (4/4%)
1 flat Asclepias currasavaca size 72 (4/4%)
1/4 flat geranium 'Espresso' size 32 (1/4%)

This message was edited Jan 11, 2014 2:43 PM

I have a question: when people say they want e.g. 1/4 flat, is the idea that they would keep all 12 or so of those plants, or would that be a potentially shared purchase, with others paying the person for some of those 12 plants? E.g., I would love some of the two varieties of mountain mints, plus A. incarnata and A. tuberosa, that Coleup mentions above, but I'm not sure I would want a whole quarter flat--e.g., 12 plants. Sorry if I'm a bit slow on the uptake here!

I really want to take part but it seems pick-up occurs during our Sabbath which cuts me out of meeting the pickup requirement. Is anyone who lives near Silver Spring willing to pick up for me and then I can pick up from you? Thanks so much if we can work something out.

Yehudith

Yehudith, I live very close to you and would be very happy to pick up the plants for you!



This message was edited Jan 11, 2014 11:52 PM

What should I do if I want just 3-4 plugs from a flat? Contact the original poster directly or just list it here? I'm interested in the espresso geranium.

gardener

Thanks so very much!!! Working on my order now!

Concerning ironweed seedlings: I didn't mention that these plants make their appearance late in the spring so it is possible I will not find any seedlings by May 31 although being that this swap is a little later than the last one I attended we may be lucky! I will definitely keep my eyes peeled in May and be on the look out. I really don't need any more ironweed! I wasn't home this fall to collect the seeds from the asclepias or unidentified milkweed and assume the seeds have "flown". But who knows. Some of the stalks may be standing so I'll check. Now that I know there is so much interest I will try to collect this fall if possible.

I'm going through the list and I'm thrilled to see Hellebores offered. I'm more than likely going to end up with a flat. I also want some ferns and trycirtis. A lot of what I want won't be available until later on and I wonder if we might have and early summer group buy if this one goes well. I can always live in hopes.

Yehudith, I was really interested in Helleborus Brandywine, but only 1/4 flat, which for hellebores is just 4 plants -- perfect for my small yard.

It looks like Brandywine and Candy Love are the only two available for May. That's too bad!

I was also looking forward to getting a 1/4 flat of Hakone grass but I don't see them listed. I thought they carried them last year....?

As requested I've tried to come up with native plants that grow in shaded dry conditions.

Let me tell you first that my backyard is shaded and dry because of 2 very large Norway Spruce.
The roots are the reason for the dryness, they are right up to the surface of all the plant beds.
As a result I have slowly raised all the beds and lined them with stones or tree branches. All the beds have a deep woodsy duff of spruce and pine needles and rotted leaves that have accumulated over the last 10 years
making it hospitable to woodland plants.
Actually I know the water table is high because 3 of my neighbors have sump pumps in their basements and my neighbor to the left has a large "pond" over the back part of his yard whenever it rains hard, big enough to
attract ducks.

So the tried and true native plants I have for dry shade are Christmas fern- Polystichum acrostichoides,

carex pensylanica- a 9" sedge you can use as a grass substitute, other sedges are Carex plantagenia (yellowish puckered or seer suckered leaves- really like this one but would only establish in one area after 3 tries- and Carex platyphylla (bluish leaves nice with darker leaved heucheras) I think of both of these carexes and also heucheras as a good native alternate for small hostas

Heucheras-H. americana is the only native for my area but in the past I also planted H. villosa, before I realised I would like to limit the natives to those that came from my area, which is a more southern native- both a green and brown leaved variety and as a consequence have many unknown heritage brown leaved small heucheras growing wily-nily throughout the shade garden.
I try not to buy cultivars now but the Heucheras are almost all cultivars- the villosas are: Autumn Bride (late season blooming large white sprays of flowers,) Brownies and Bronze Wave both have dark leaves,
and Green Spice which is a H. americana.

I lost the rest of this post about shrubs and other plants somehow so I'll add more plants on another post.
.

I'll try to answer the questions about what to do if you only want a few plugs.

The idea is to make up full flats for ordering a fairly easy process. The original discussions were to have an individual order a full flat, but I thought I could easily accommodate orders of 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 flats also. I didn't want to get into tallying up numbers for 1 of this or 2 of that. If you do want 1 of this or 2 of that, it should be done directly with an individual who has ordered the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, or full flat. Some suggestions include private d-mail or including it in the haves/wants thread discussions for the spring swap. I'll set that thread up later this morning.

I edited the Guidelines Post, to include specific plug counts for 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 portions.

Hope this answers your questions.

thanks, Aspen, that's very helpful!! Yes, let's do a haves/wants discussion thread for this. I'd be willing to order 1/4 flats of several of these if others might also be interested in 1-2 plugs of said plant. :-)

thanks so much!

Coleup,
On your post for what you want to order, on the items for which you indicated 4/4% was that a typo and you really want 1/4 or did you mean a full flat? Other than that question, the format is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

One more thing to re-emphasize - Remember that these are plugs, not fully grown out plants.

The main intention is for commercial growers to buy large quantities at low cost per plant and grow them out for re-sale to consumers. Plugs are small - picture seedlings. You may have success directly planting in a garden, but most people pot them and let them grow out before planting or selling. Either way - takes some bit of caring for them to thrive. Think twice to be sure you want to go this route.

I don't want to take on another group order, but another option is bare-root perennials. Critter ordered a few from ADR last year as a test, and was impressed with the size and quality.

Thanks for the further information, Aspenhill. I have not had good luck with growing seedlings in my house due to the 4 cats who invariably end up nibbling on the sprouting leaves and/or digging in the dirt around them--both of which ultimately kill the young plant. Are they difficult to keep alive if planted directly into the ground outside?

Aspen, You said you may put in initial order this week with North Creek. I think that is wise as they do sell out of some varieties before the next availability which may be after your pick up date of 5/23. I therefore have ordered a full flat of 3 different Asclepias and one of Viola Silver Gem as I want to be sure we have those plants ordered.

As I said before, I will mini swap for cash or other plugs any of the full flats. Seeing the interest already in the Silver Gem I know I won't have any problems being stuck with too many. In fact, I believe that that we should order two flats because as Holly said, those that see it want it!

Now, a question for you. When you say you 'can easily accommodate 1/4. 1/2 flat orders etc 'did you mean that if I want 1/4 flat of Mountain Mint and no one else shows an interest that you would order a flat and eat the rest?

There are only a few among us who might use plugs in bulk. I would like to see what you and Happy and Critter are thinking about or interested in ordering, and then the rest of us can dabble around the edges assuming you 'kilo' buyers would want a half flat min.
Hope this clarifies where I am coming from. J

Yes, Aspen, the growers like the ones I have worked for are placing their orders and getting in their shipments of pluns now, and in their controlled greenhouse environments will be potting, pinching, feeding, warming, lighting, ventilating. feeding, potting up and doing their best to bring these starts to the beautiful plants we just must have! Even though we won't get ours til almost June they will be growing the entire time, developing those root systems we too often do not see at big box stores, where we pay for a larger pot and additional soil more than for good roots which is what enables plants to establish. Of course, I have advocated before on the Landscape Plug size where available because many plants will survive in this size for as long (months!) as it takes for us to plant them as long as they are 'watered' a couple times a week.

Okay, Coleup convinced me that we're better off buying our American Beauties directly from the source as opposed to hunting around in the local nurseries for them, where chemicals could be added that actually kill the munching caterpillars. :-( Plus, the LP size is a little bigger (5 inch roots), so much better established than the tiny seedlings I tried to grow in my house that got eaten by the cats, so I'm willing to take a try on them.

So, here is what I'd like to propose. Coleup is already putting in for differing portion flats of Ascelepias, mountain mints, and others. In addition to those, would anyone be interested in sharing 1/4 flat of the following American Beauties with me:

Aster laevis 'Bluebird' (smooth aster, aka S. laeve) / LP50/ catmint 1/4 flat
Baptisia australis (false blue indigo) / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' / 32 / catmint 1/4 flat
Monarda fistulosa 'Claire Grace' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Oenothera fruticosa 'Fireworks' (sundrops) / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Penstemon digitalis 'Husker Red' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Pycnanthemum flexuosum / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Pycnanthemum muticum / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Solidago rugosa 'Fireworks' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat

These are all native beauties that the pollinators and caterpillars love, good for our declining butterfly populations. A quarter flat of 50 is about 12 plants; a quarter flat of 32 is 8 plants. If we plan to get a quarter flat of each of the above, is there going to be enough interest among us to cash-swap them among us? That's 6 or 10 plants of each of the above (minus 2 each for me).

Thoughts?

Catmint

For those of us who 'only want one or two plants'

Using 'Silver Gem' viola as an example:

8@ $ 1.30 (wholesale} = $ 10.40
or
1@ $ 9.99 (retail) = $ 9.99

Basically. I can get 8 plants to plant or share with friends and neighbors who will admire them for what I would spend for one plant which I couldn't share for several years with those same admirers. I could also plant 2 or three together if my time or space was limited and have a greater effect than one single specimen! I will also have fewer regrets like I do when I decide I do want to buy that plant and it is 'sold out'

Or, commit to eight, take two and put the rest on the Gift Table at the Swap! Or stick a plug or two into someone's pile while they aren't looking! Become a 'gorilla' gardener and plant excess plants in parks and strip malls. Or beautify your school or Sally's Library!

Lol, I'm sure there will be more milkweed plants oalong my paper route this year and I might be the only one who kows how they got there.

I'm more than happy to share a few out of my flat/flats. I just have to decide how many I'm getting.

Yehudith

Coleup,
Yes, I will be putting in my initial order some time next week. To answer your question about my comment that I can accommodate orders in 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 portions, I meant that I can easily tally them up from an organizational perspective to make a full flat vs trying to tally up 1 of this or 2 of that - not that I will personally buy up the rest of the flat.

With that being said, let's see how things play out, and if we end up with several partial flats at the ordering cut-off point, I'll take a look at what is left and evaluate on a case by case basis. Like I said, I'm trying to gain experience in growing for resale so I may want those odds and ends.

I think we should continue to list the plants we are interested in and quantities if known, or when known so that Aspen can place full flat orders. We will have nothing to break down or swap out if we can't come to a full flat! Finding takers for a quarter flat seems to me to be a bit of cart before the horse. lol

Seems we need one person to commit to a full flat. two for a half flt each or four for a quarter each before we can order that plant.

Posters should indicate the plants they are interested in as they go through the catalog and get it listed at top of this thread so others can indicate their interest in same or lack thereof. Afterall, someone else being interested in a particular plant can stimulate our own interest and some 'just a fews' may become a 1/4 flat and so on, or the basis for another order at another time!

For me personally, I have only indicated quantities on plants I am interested in if I am willing to pay that amount and take that amount upon delivery. Otherwise I'll just stay 'interested'!

Good points, Coleup! I'm willing to commit to a quarter flat of each of the following. If others are willing to co-host a flat with me, then we'll have a go. Anyone interested?

Aster laevis 'Bluebird' (smooth aster, aka S. laeve) / LP50/ catmint 1/4 flat
--"This tall vased-shaped wildflower has large 1" diameter blue flowers held in cloud-like clusters at the tips of the arching branches. Aster laevis is a great source of nectar for migrating monarchs and other late season butterflies."

Baptisia australis (false blue indigo) / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
--"Blue spikes of pea-shaped flowers resemble the tall racemes of lupines in May and early June. A slow to mature, but very rewarding native garden perennial. Found in open woods, river banks and sandy floodplains, New York to Nebraska to Georgia." NPIN: Special value to native bees and bumble bees.

Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' / 32 / catmint 1/4 flat
--"A free-flowering plant to brighten up the mid and late summer garden. Covered in intense light yellow single 2-3" flowers from July to September. An irresistible butterfly plant."

Monarda fistulosa 'Claire Grace' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
--"Soft lavender pin cushion-like flowers. Quite mildew resistant, with excellent, shiny foliage. Extremely showy. A must for the avid butterfly gardener!" NPIN: Attracts: Birds , Butterflies , Hummingbirds; Special value to native bees and bumblebees

Oenothera fruticosa 'Fireworks' (sundrops) / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
--yellow narrow-leaf evening primrose; NPIN: attracts birds, hummingbirds; special value to native bees

Penstemon digitalis 'Husker Red' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
--"This native makes a stunning display with its brilliant white flowers against a backdrop of deep red foliage. Tough and easy to grow, it tolerates a wide variety of conditions including hot dry sites. 1996 Perennial Plant of the Year. Our plants are now vegetatively propagated from our reddest, most vigorous selections." NPIN: Attracts hummingbirds, special value to native bees and bumblebees

Solidago rugosa 'Fireworks' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
--"A compact, cascading, clump forming perennial with a radiating flower form that really looks like fireworks! A great addition for late season color and to lure the butterflies in." NPIN: Special Value to Native Bees and Honey Bees; Supports Conservation Biological Control (A plant that attracts predatory or parasitoid insects that prey upon pest insects.)

Thanks Terri. Wish I could up pot or divide and share my 'growing for retail' experience and pass it on. I loved it. I am so itchy to do it again. Nothin like working with plants in a green house or cool hoop house to stir my blood.

This is my latest list:

Asclepias tuberosa size 50 (4/4%)*
Asclepias incarnata size 50 (4/4%)*
Asclepias currasavaca size 72 (4/4%)*
( If you want more than a few of these Asclepias
please indicate your interest on this thread as we may
want to order a second flat.) Monarch cats are hungry!

viola Silver Gem" size 32 (4/4%)*
(Already split with Aspen/Holly and Happy)

* indicates willing to share



This message was edited Jan 12, 2014 2:59 PM

Coleup, I would like some of your:
Asclepias tuberosa size 50 (4/4%)*
Asclepias incarnata size 50 (4/4%)*
Or I would be willing to co-host a flat of them with you.

Have you decided to pass on the mountain mints? If so, I'll do:
Pycnanthemum flexuosum / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Pycnanthemum muticum / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat

Happy or Coleup, are you interested in a quarter flat of the mountain mints also?

Please don't be annoyed by this post -- I haven't had time to really focus on all the threads, so I may be breaking all the rules, but I wanted you to know what caught my eye just in case it'll help someone fill up an order. I'll be more precise in the next day or so. I don't want ALL the plants I'm expressing interest in below -- I am assuming many won't reach a full flat.

I'm interested in the following plants that others have expressed interest in. I put an asterisk by those I'm really jumping up and down about:

Asclepias - I'd like to try whichever is most garden-worthy -- I am really ignorant about these
Baptisia australis (false blue indigo) / LP50 / I'd take up to 1/4 flat (Catmint -- are you running this one?)
Geranium maculatum 'Espresso'
*Geranium macrorrhizum 'Bevan's Variety' / I'd happily take up to a full flat
Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' / 32 / I'd take up to 1/4 flat (Catmint -- are you running this one?)
*Meehania cordata / 32 or 50 / I'd take up to a full flat
Oenothera fruticosa 'Fireworks' (sundrops) -- I'd take 1/4 flat (Catmint -- are you running this one?)
Phlox 'Triple Play' / I can take up to 1/4 flat
Pycnanthemum flexuosum / LP50 / I'd take up to 1/4 flat (Catmint -- are you running this one?)
Pycnanthemum muticum / LP50 / I'd take up to 1/4 flat (Catmint -- are you running this one?)
Solidago rugosa 'Fireworks' / LP50 / I'd take 1/4 flat (Catmint -- are you running this one?)
***Viola Silver Gem -- I think I am in for 1/4 flat, but I'd take up to a full flat.

Plants I am interested in that I haven't seen mentioned on this thread -- is anyone else interested?:

Amsonia 'Blue Ice'
Amsonia hubrichtii
Amsonia tabernaemontana var. salicifolia - see http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=b280
Asarum canadense (I would like a full flat)
Aster divaricatus 'Eastern Star' (I would take 1/2 flat)
Aster ericoides 'Snow Flurry' (I would take 1/4 flat)
Heuchera americana 'Dale's Strain' (I'd take up to a flat)

Plants I have questions about:
Porteranthus trifoliatus 'Pink Profusion': How fussy is it? Is it long-lived?

Plants I have concerns about:

Aster laevis 'Bluebird' -- may not be deer resistant
Monarda fistulosa 'Claire Grace' -- susceptible to mildew -- see http://www.chicagobotanic.org/downloads/planteval_notes/no12_monarda.pdf

Here's my official endorsement for Helleborus Brandywine, 1/4 flat (which is 4.5 plants, so we'll figure something out if we end up getting a full flat of it).

I will individually dmail for the other plants I want.

edit: oops, didn't finish the sentence

This message was edited Jan 12, 2014 8:51 PM

Happy, that's a good point about Monarda and mildew. It looks like Monarda didyma 'Jacob Cline' is a good alternative--it has the same special value to native bees and bumblebees, but is also more mildew resistant.

Happy, I'm so glad to hear you are interested in some of the flats! So, right now we are at half flats for the following:
Baptisia australis (false blue indigo) / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat, happy 1/4 flat
Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' / 32 / catmint 1/4 flat, happy 1/4 flat
Oenothera fruticosa 'Fireworks' (sundrops) / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat, happy 1/4 flat
Pycnanthemum flexuosum / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat, happy 1/4 flat
Pycnanthemum muticum / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat, happy 1/4 flat
Solidago rugosa 'Fireworks' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat, happy 1/4 flat

We're too suburban for deer where I live, so I'm going to keep the Aster laevis. I've switched out the Monarda fistulosa Claire Grace with Monarda didyma Jacob Cline. (Where do they get these cultivar names...) I'm also still interested in the Penstemon digitalis Husker Red.

Aster laevis 'Bluebird' (smooth aster, aka S. laeve) / LP50/ catmint 1/4 flat
Monarda didyma 'Jacob Cline' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat
Penstemon digitalis 'Husker Red' / LP50 / catmint 1/4 flat

Catmint -- don't forget that I can most likely supply you with plenty of Huskers Red.