the new problem

I don't understand why all the suggestions from Admin for us to adjust settings, resolutions, clear cache, change font size, etc, etc, when we have been here for years without needing to do it. If DG is the only website with the problems, I don't think it should be necessary for us to adapt to DG's changes when it could create problems for us when viewing other websites. All of this simply doesn't compute to me as a good thing. I have enjoyed my time here, but it could be ending with my subscription running out in a month.

You paid subscribers, which I am one, need to realize they make more money from advertizing than they do from our meager membership fee. Not a complaint, just a statement of fact.

I dont know a "good" way to say this but this is my best effort. Threats and sarcasm shut down communication and prevent problems from being solved, not just here, but in general. Giving accurate feedback to the admins goes a lot further toward getting a solution to the problems we have. If you are angry, it's OK to say you are angry and it's OK for you to make any decision you would like about remaining a member. Threats and sarcasm are attempts to manipulate and it just shuts people down and gives them a bad feeling about you. Im not an admin. Im just a subscriber who gets frustrated too but let's not make things harder. Let's be a part of the solution if we can. I know this sounds so parent-y and for that I apologize.

This message was edited Jul 19, 2013 11:48 PM

steadycam, I have not been sarcastic or threatening- all I want to know is WHY can't the social network links be placed where they don't cause the problem that we have now- the huge blank space on the left side of the forum pages. My home page is fine- it is when I read forums that the left 1/3 of the screen is blank. And I KNOW this is not caused by any of my settings. I enjoy DG, and I admire the admin workers. I just ask for one question to be answered. Thank you

Jo, you threatened several times not to re-subscribe.

Sorry Sharon, but I still think the advertising was somewhere else when we were running before. I don't think we had the wide space on the left. If the non payors want to look at the ads,instead of paying their dues, then let them put them some place else. Like they did before. Why should we have to look at them. They get the money from the ads, plus our dues. Facebook is free. Why should we have to give up that big space to freebies like facebook, Pinterest, and Twitter, tweeter,or whatever.

This is getting ridiculous.

Going to bed. nite. Jen

Terry -- I guess the thing that is amiss is... about a week ago, the screen looked fine -- I did not mind many of the changes, until a few days ago when the left column popped up. Before, the "content" portion of the page was nice and wide, now it is much smaller. That is what I was commenting on.

I recall there being links to follow for FB before that were not so intrusive. Not sure why the powers that be can't do something more inconspicuous.

This may be the new normal, and seems many of us don't like it, and we have to make the decision to deal with it or not.

Jo, what we discovered as soon as we made the initial changes is that the folks most negatively affected by them seem to have a few things in common: a low(er) resolution monitor and/or significantly adjusted text or font size, either through browser and/or DG's font settings.

We didn't - and honestly couldn't - have anticipated that.The techs tested on every size screen they could get their hands on, but they didn't have any way of knowing how unique some users' settings were.

So what we're doing is trying to help those folks one-on-one with suggestions to restore the settings that are making their view of things look odd.

It's always your right to set your monitor and browser to whatever settings you wish in order to make most things readable and comfortable for you. But with the new fixed width text area that may mean scrolling back-and-forth if your monitor resolution is lower than the "average" or "typical" monitor and/or you have increased the text size significant larger than average.

If the white box with posts wasn't isolated and surrounded by the beige enclosed space on either side ( Is this the area reserved for ads?) we would be able to expand our post areas as before.

Each day I am becoming more frustrated because I'm losing more viewing capability.

At this point I have a small font size that is more difficult to see and a very narrow post box
size so in order to read the full post I have to scroll down.

This is not a comfortable way to read the posts and I am giving up half way through.
Is there any way this can be altered? please say yes.

Yes we all seem to be having problems with the small size of the text box. Terri says the larger box was like reading a book with the text across both pages, we think it is like reading a book with a narrow column down one page. For some reason they seem to have selected this new small text box size and are going to stick with it no matter what, she has already restated that it is not in the works to change that. They seem to feel only a very small portion of their subscribers are having problems with this. I just think the majority are just not wanting to fool with all the trouble till it gets settled. I have noticed that of all the forums I go to, it is the most recognized names that seem to be having problems. It is the people I see posting over and over that are posting here. That indicates to me that the others don't post a lot and they are not posting about their problems either. Just my observation.

I'm sorry to hear there will be no further changes to accommodate a larger viewing space
and text size.

Thanks! I've checked to make sure your DG font is defaulting to your browser's settings, so two more quick questions.

1. I should probably know this already, but what browser are you using?

and

2. What font size do you have your browser set to? (By way of comparison, my Firefox browser is set to 16 point font, which is roughly equivalent to a 12-point font on a printed page.) My I.E. is set to 90% zoom. I've ramped it to 100% and back to 90%, and I'm having some problems with the headers wrapping in I.E., but I haven't seen any problems with the text area itself.)

Seed - I disagree. I think the reason the names of the posters repeat with little to no new input is because those posting are articulate and the point has been made as clear as can be. I think the webmasters/IT/Administrators got the message loud and clear.

I have had issues and fixed as per the fix recommendations. I am not in love with the new format but agree the old was dated ( but so am I ).

What bothers me is that ..I think the bugs could have been worked out a little better -- maybe start with a test group. Maybe not possible --- I don't know the practicality of it. BUT what I am very sure of is that DavesG has long time subscribers-- that have contributed to its success and have put immense amounts of time into journals and photos and resources and references. And, I believe that quite a few of us may possibly think 'Firefox' is an Australian shrub. A Safari demands a hat, rifle, guts, and bug spray. 'Resolution' means agreeing to keep the thermostat somewhere "in the middle." Terry has been helpful in trying to do what she can to guide and instruct on the computer settings ---- but many call the grand kids up when their font needs a shrink ---- that or BEST BUYS resident computer geek. We should not have to interface with the computer mechanics if we are not so inclined. This is not an isolated situation where our computer has messed up and we have no choice but to go into the controls and settings -- comfort level or not. It should have been tested for design and functionality by the IT folks and a test group before implementing.

This message was edited Jul 20, 2013 12:06 PM

OK, so let me make sure I have this straight before jumping to conclusions. Out of 12" website ( on a 19" screen), we get only 4" of text space, part of which is cut off, and this is IT. This is the way its going to be for good? The 4" space on the left is going to be left blank like it is now?

Gardenglory, yes. We are looking at some things to try to widen it a bit if we can, but we're a little hamstrung because of the unique way DGs forums are set up. If we went to a standard forum set up (a la vbulletin board) - as most sites have, we'd probably have a little more flexibiilty.

But even still, when I compare our text space to almost every other type of site I use - my blog, Facebook, eBay, etc. - they all have a narrower text area than what DG had previously. And most all of them are fixed width and do not shrink/expand much with your brower, either.

I think we all got very comfortable with the old look, and it worked well for some users who like a significantly larger-than-customary font size. But in order to work our way into where we need to be as technology continues to change (tablets have smaller screens, more people are using smart phones, etc.) we have to start adjusting things to accommodate those needs, too.

And truly, once you get used to the smaller text area, it actually does seem to create less eye strain for reading because your eyes are not following a very long line of text across the entire screen.

Well I just got back on from this morning and had to readjust everything smaller again.

Not happy at all with the changes. Way to much white. Print to small to be comfy.

Others have said it better so will just agree with them.

Terry, any word on the address exchange returning?

Terry, I'm having trouble grasping all of this. The area we read in the forum is not as large as it was before the remodel. I think the fixed width is a great idea. So why must I either make everything smaller or keep scrolling back and forth to read the posts? It makes no sense in my mind whatever.

I realize that management has made its decision on the looks of the website. I think someone went overboard on the borders thing. I just opened a new tab and turned the ads on. There is an ad above the forum and with ads turned off there is no extra space up there. On the left side is the 2 inch border, about an inch, the ad, another inch and then the forum. That would be about 3 inches of border too many along with the ad space.

Having to scroll back and forth over and over again is a pain - literally and figuratively.

So-NOW it is starting to make sense- out with the old, in with the new, regardless of whether we like it or not. The changes are being made to accommodate those with tablets, ipads,iphones,you name it- and we who prefer to use our "old fashioned" computers will just have to make adjustments and changes- after all, we are not spending as much $$$ as those who have to have the latest.
The question I have asked several times still has not been answered- WHY DOES THE SOCIAL NETWORK LINK HAVE TO BE THERE TAKING UP 1/3 OF THE PAGE? Why can't it be located in a place where those who use it can, and the rest of us don't have to tolerate the empty space it has created?
I am not trying to be a troublemaker , but would just like an explanation. There are many times more posts on this topic than any of the gardening forums, so I know I am not alone in my frustration.

Jo, the space on the left hand side is not just for the social media - that's where the ads are going.

I was told there would be no ads. Thats why it makes no logical sense to me.

If you watch ads or are not a paid subscriber k- that.s where the ads would be. We get to see the ad space instead.

You mean I was told there would be no ads, but was failed to be told that we have to look at blank space instead BECAUSE of ads. I feel rather duped.
I had intimated that we lost our pictures and banners because of ads, and was told...there would be no ads.

So if that space is gonna be there anyways, we may as well be looking at ads instead of a blank space that has taken over what we paid to see? This is abaolutely NUTS!
(still no answer to my question)

exactlly

Scroll, scroll, scroll & scroll some more. Every time you click from one page to another you need to scroll. My font is 12.
Before scrolling it is 5 inches from the left side of the screen to the edge of used area. After scrolling it is 3 7/8 inches. My whole screen is only 13¼ inches wide. So over 1/3 of my screen is useless.

Good grief can't these people figure this out?
I have 3 websites of my own that I built, & none have to be scrolled & use the whole screen.

On my daughters I pad this site fits the screen perfectly after a little adjustment, and can actually read the text better than I can on my large desk top monitor. So I think the new look must have been designed with the new smaller pads and phones in mind. On my desk top, this new design is just awful.

The social network links (and the search boxes) take up no more room than what we devoted to navigation before we made these changes. Since the navigation was fairly long on most pages, you may have not realized there was blank space to the left when you scrolled down through a long thread, because when you opened the thread, what you first saw was a full screen of "stuff."

We eliminated most of that navigation because it was redundant to what is on top. The space beneath the "follow" links and search box is clean unless you have ads displayed.

The main difference you are seeing is you can no longer stretch your text area (to the right of that same space) as wide as your screen. We are kind of late in adopting the fixed-width approach, but studies have shown that it is less fatiguing to read in a text box that is about as wide as what we are using. It takes a bit of getting used to, but I think once you do, you'll find it's pleasant to read and not be distracted by "stuff" filling every square inch of your screen.

Bernie, it sounds like you may have an older monitor? (You mentioned somewhere else that your screen resolution is 1024 x 768 pixels. Sad fact: most users (90% or so) use a higher resolution than that, and we have to program to meet their needs which means the site is designed for resolutions of 1200 and higher.

Terry, I have internet explorer and Ive changed my font setting to medium vs large and it corrected the prob with cut off on right side on most things. When we first began, I cleared my cache and the banner displayed properly. Then something changed on your end and now the tabs are listed vertically instead of across the banner. I cleared the cache again but it did not fix this. Any suggestions?

Can you take a screenshot and post it here? I.E. is acting a little odd for me today, but I don't have the same formatting issues with Firefox or Chrome We haven't changed anything today or yesterday, but my I.E. did change this a.m. when I started adjusting the settings - even after I restored them.

I dont know how to take a screenshot and I cant fnd the directions ;you gave earlier. Also my screen has been like this for over a week, not just recently. I was just going to wait and see if it cleared up on its own but then it didn't so Im asking. It looks a lot like it did early on before I cleared my cache.

Terry, with a smaller reading area why in the world do I have to scroll to see the entire thing? The forum part of DG is lopsided.

When I turned ads on there are ads at the top of the page. If there are no ads - there is a space. When I turn the ads off - there is no space at the top of the forum page. Why can't the same thing be done with the ads at the left side of the page?

Here are some step-by-step instructions, assuming you are running Windows and have access to the "Paint" program in your Accessories:

http://www.wikihow.com/Take-a-Screenshot-in-Microsoft-Windows

The other step you can take is to try a different browser and see if the problem persists.

Do you know your screen resolution size? If not, you can use your mouse to right-click anywhere on your screen (be sure you've reduced or minimized your window where you're reading this) and then click on the link for "screen resolution" to see your current resolution and if it's optimized for your hardware.

Terry here is my screen shot. Interesting thing happened. When I saved the screen shot in word, then clicked on it, it displayed correctly.

Terry the resolution is 1024 X 768.

That's definitely weird. Anybody else's homepage look like steadycam3's?

Can you switch browsers and see if it's still occurring? Let me know and I'll pass your screenshot along to the techs on Monday.

elsie, it sounds like you're in the same boat as CountryGardens. (See my note above.) If your monitor is several years old, you are probably going to encounter this problem more and more - DG is one of the later sites to make changes that are optimized for screens and monitors that are 1200 pixels or wider. The site will still be useable, but you may have to scroll back-and-forth to read the text in the forum posts.

Terry, that is exactly how my Home Page looks!!

In all 'resolutions' , all DG Preference settings and all Firefox settings and combinations thereof. and, ever since the switch to New Look after multiple reboots, cache, cookie, history clearings, etc.
One of my Firefox 2.0 browser tools is an Error Consule which gives the same readout of Warnings per line each time I clear it and then log back in to DG. I could supply that if it would be of some help