Starting seeds for 2013, Part 2

OTFLMAO!!!!

Someone said the seeds are viable for 80 years...

Let me help... Thwack! Thwack! Thwack!

;-)

80 years? Grooooannnn

SPRING IS NEAR
Snowdrops are my 1st Blooms Of the year :) TAKEN TODAY Also have DAFFODILS Popping .

I repotted most of my seeds this weekend and built a light stand. What fertilizer do you recommend - hoping to go organic..?

Your light stand looks great. What did you use?

My potting mix already has fertilizer in it. I only use Superthrive, a root stimulator, and peroxide:water, 1:10, until they're in the garden. Supposedly the peroxide protects against fungus and the extra oxygen molecule nourishes the plants.

Nice setup, Schaff20! Is that 2 tubes, or 4? 1.5" tubes (T-12) or skinnier (T-8 or T-5?)

Have you moved them away from the heating vent? Most seedlings this old don't need warmth like 70F, they'll grow stockier if they have around 60F air.

I see that the seedlings on the left are getting "leggy" as if from too-week light/ Maybe you could prop them up on top of something water-proof so they are closer to the tubes.

It looks as if you could lower the light another inch or so even on the right. The closer, the better, if those are two traditional T-12 florescent tubes. If it is FOUR tubes, forget I said anything, that should be PLENTY of light.

I don't think many people have FOUR tubes for one row of trays running "the long way".

Hi. We built it from PVC. The only decently priced light we could find was a 4-bulb flourescent, 48" so we used that. The plants on the left will be moved into their new pots by the weekend. I used the superthrive on the other plants after I repotted them and what a difference it made! I thought I needed fertilizer too but I guess not? Thanks!

>> 4-bulb flourescent, 48"

Nice! That give plenty of brightness down the middle, and more light on the edges than a 2-tube fixture would.

The following is just my untested opinion, but I am guessing that, with 4 bulbs, you COULD run your trays "perpendicular" to the light tubes when the current layout gets crowded. That doubles your amount of tray-area. The outer edges would get less light, but you could leave those empty of pots as long as possible.

Also, as long as the air is not warm or stuffy, you could keep the edges brighter by hanging some white reflective film or panels down from the light fixture, maybe angling out to include the whole 22 inches of the tray.

If the air is cool and drafty, the reflectors won't make it too warm and stagnant.

I'm pretty happy with Superthrive, use it in all watering. I usually mix up 1/2 gallon batches, add just a drop or two and 4- 6 oz peroxide. I use it in my self-watering trays as well as for wetting the mix while potting and transplanting. I think it helps everything.

We're off at 5:30 in the morning for a few days in he sun... Yippee! I'm hoping to come back to some new babies, especially Datura. All the trays have been filled so they won't go dry, lights raised up a little, dome vents are part open...

I'll still be checking in here, still will have the Internet, i'm not going without my garden fix, even if it is long distance, lol..

I have tried Plant Tone organic fertilizer, but I don't think it dissolves and works as well as the non-organic varieties in the seed trays. I am embarrassed to admit, Miracle Gro works well. I use (mostly) organic solutions when I can, especially on plants for food, but some plants are just buggy and I have to use a more aggressive treatment to keep them healthy.

I like SuperThrive/Peroxide as well. My potting soil has fertilizer, but I find that some seedlings that are larger or heavy feeders like some fertilizer the last 2 to 3 weeks they're in the flats.

I have crocus blooms ready to go, and it snowed on them, hoping they will still bloom.

Here are my 1st BLOOMS for 2013 Taken Monday the 11th of March . SNOWDROPS so danty & cute & gives Hope that Spring is close :) Love reading all your info.
Pam have a safe trip ,enjoy the sunshine.

I love those!

Oh my gosh, you guys are awesome! I thought I would come on here to check on the use of Hydrogen peroxide, but I am completely amazed at how far along everyone is!!!

I'm trying my hand at growing some tropicals and trees from seed and am getting ready to do some soaking. I totally forgot about Superthrive for seeds - good thing I just bought a bottle! :)

I would like to start some annuals and perennials, but I'm out of space under lights. :(

New sprouts since last report:
Lilium phillipiense
Malva viscus 'Pam Puryear'
Achilea purple from fruity
Vesper Iris, hey ordinarygirl, got any pix or info for me?
Lychnis chalcedonica Alba Maltese Cross
Aster divaricatus Alba
Hemerocalis noids (patti), just under lights and they are beginning to sprout, no spcial treatment
Lunaria annua

Susuie meant to ask you about the Virginia Bunch Flower Lily. Any pix or info?

Still working on putting my new stand together, had to get a few last minute things to get and am going to do the lights a bit different. Maybe if I get to it I could actually finish it today. Babies are growing like spring is already here....

For those who missed the info the foil blanket is sold at Walmart for $4. They are located in the sporting goods area and is an emergency blanket. It's Aluminized polyester, VERY light weight and very reflective. Comes in a sheet that is 52.5" X 82.5". I'm thinking I like these and will surround my new stand in them. I have one taped to the stand I am using now., but only on the front side.

Will be 60-70* for the rest of the week, am glad to have some warmth. Check back in later gals.....

For those who missed it and were wondering about my plant starting stand, info with instructions for building one and pix are available in: Cottage Gardening, ref. the question Consolida or Delphinium. Couldn't remember what thread it was on..lol..Silly me.

Kathy ~ You certainly have been busy. I have the seeds coming from Chilterns and Select Seeds this year. I might get a few from JLHudson as well as most of my seeds are old. I will, however, try to start them this year. I just have been working outside since we have been having summer-like weather, but next week it will rain or snow, so they said...go figure! Then I can get busy with the seed-starting, as well as finish my quilt for my great-grandson. I am behind on all counts since I was ill this winter and had to go to the hospital. I usually do lots of winter-sowing.

On my light stands...they only have one ballast and these are short ones as well, so I have a limited amount that I sow indoors. That is why I also wintersow outdoors...but nothing but a little direct-sowing and planting so far.

The weather has been really quite nice, but by next week it is supposed to rain and snow....go figure!!

CROCUS Bloomed Today

Here I am again, still away, but back on the 'Net...

Wow, everyone's been so busy! So pretty, snowdrops and crocus. I'm looking at tropicals here, nice of course, but I'll be glad to get to CT in a couple of weeks and see what's going on there...

All my Snapdragons, Nicotianas and Salvia Victoria Blue germinated before I left, also Batch 2 of Storm White Petunias. Seeds left over from 2011 did nothing, I re-sowed with new ones.

Celine, Plantone is great in the garden, but is more a soil conditioner than fertilizer, it takes months to break down. My pro designer friend uses tons of it spring and fall, more than they tell you to, and I've found it works really well too. But indoors, the babies need something more immediate. I've used MG, somewhat diluted, and it seems fine. So far I haven't added anything because the mix I use has fert in it, but eventually I may have to on the perennials that got an early start.

Kathy, you are amazing! What a list you have! How many trays do you have room for with the new stands? I know you make your own mix- What do you fertilize with, and when?

I've decided that next year I'm going to add Perlite to the MG mix for all the things I had trouble with this year- P palmerii (yes, I will try again, still have one plant growing well but that's all), Verbascums, Veronicas, perennial Salvias, and any other 'well-drained' types that come along. I will also try combining your method of using vermiculite with Kim_M's. She sows directly in it, but I think I will put a layer of it on top of the mix like you do, then sow in that. I'll still use Deno for most, it's still my fave.

Pic is the view from our room...

gm all just wanted to share
DJ9 2013 SPRING - FALL PLANT swap
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1302498/

Nope didn't finish the stand yet...gosh I know get it done!!! Lol. a few more holes to drill today, and that should just about do it, then put it all together. Am doing this in the back bedroom, not tons of moving around room...trying to keep my mess to a minimum, put down another tarp so dust from drilling hole pretty much stays in one area. Fortunately I was able to cut all the wood outside on a nice day.

Pfg...I know, I will have plants coming out of my ears....Sure am hoping for a great spring. GKids will be out of school the last week of March and first week in April. Maybe after that I can begin on somethings..atleast I should be able to start garden cleanup.. Here it's 70* today, they are saying warmer than Miami...lol...and rain turning to snow tomorrow night. And I'm trying your concoction of Superthrive and peroxide now... Got leaf burn on a few things several weeks ago so totaly backed off everything til today.

Ok, off to check a few other rooms then back to my new stand.

This message was edited Mar 15, 2013 12:15 PM

Just finished putting together another utility shelf with lights, I'll need to pot up zinnias and cosmos and they need more space...

Thanks so much for the link to this forum, guys. Holy cow, there's so much info on the first thread & this one, decided to copy it over to a Word doc to read it easier. It's a whopping 130 pages of learning I need to do! :o) Wonderful! Thanks again, 'cause boy, do I ever have the need to learn!

How did you do that?! I've copied specific posts, but how do you do a whole thread? I agree, so many people have contributed so much to this discussion- and some others on other threads-,I've learned a ton, don't want to lose track of any of it.

Have been in the 50's for a few days so spent time after work cleaning my borders and checking my iris and daylily seedling, along with the parents. Lost some Iris parents, but not one of daylilies. The 1 year old seedlings are just waiting to grow with warm weather. I can see green just under the surface. Some iris seedlings are already producing side fans. Got rid of the old dead leaves.

This year's iris seeds are still dormant in their bins. Not ready yet to sprout since there has to be 55 to 70 degrees for a period of time to wake them up. They have been in their bins since Nov. 2012. Didn't take a photo so uploaded one from last year to illustrate what I am talking about.

wishing you all A

Pfg, I clicked & held the mouse from the upper left corner of the first box (as in above Pfg), and dragged it alllllll the way down to the lower right corner of the last dialogue box at the bottom of the page, right-clicked to copy, opened a new Word doc, right-clicked to paste. There's so very much info it's slow going on my computer, but worth it! :o) Comes from working in an office too long, too anally, I believe. lol

This message was edited Mar 17, 2013 7:09 AM

Happy Spring!!!!!!

Here's a pix of my new stand, had to take a side pix, lol, not enough room in front of it...
Started transplanting these today, form this to (1)
this to (2)
this, 75 Digitalis p. Alba (3), now I can't even see the bloom til 2014, egads!!!!

Wow Nice Plants you Lucky gal you Pour the feed to them :) Looking great I just got to find the time to visit your gardens :)))

It looks great, Kathy. I'm sooooo jealous of all your space!

I came home to several Chia pets of seedlings and a few Daturas. Yesterday as soon as I started transplanting I realized I was low on just about everything. By the time I got it all together - seed starting and potting mix and peroxide- and did a few more chores, I had no more time, so today was it.

First of all, adding significant amounts of vermiculite to the mix made a huge difference in the root systems- long, strong and branched, also easy to separate. Here in the city, I'm stuck with HD for supplies, and they only carry MG. At first they only had the Moisture Control Potting Mix, but last time I was able to get the organic, which is normal.

Where I just used vermiculite on top of potting mix, the roots were drowning, much less developed. I thought the Daturas and Petunias wouldn't mind the heavier medium, but they definitely did. In fact, the Black Currant Swirl didn't come up at all yet, I may have to do it again. Today I filled the bottom half of each cell with organic potting mix (taking out the biggest sticks-so annoying!), made a cone-shaped depression and filled the rest of the way with seed-starting mix and vermiculite. They may outgrow the cells too soon, but at least they won't drown.

But I still have the problem of a limited area to work in. I have 3 Nicotianas, 3 Snapdragons and Salvia farinacea Victoria Blue. Oh, and Petunias, the new group of Storm Whites came up. I wanted a fair amount of each, but soon filled everything up. I'm also doing a few of each for DD as hers will be smaller by planting time and this will give her some earlier flowers. I finally planted some in clusters in the cells, or as WS-ers say, HOS (hunk Of Seedlings). Survival of the fittest, lol. If needed I'll thin or separate again later.

We hope to open the house on the 29th, only 8 days away, and I can take all the cool perennials there. That will help a lot. I have soooo much more I want to do!

What a great thread, I have been reading for hours. I will try to chip in with my experience. For hard seeds that take many weeks or months to germinate, I have finally settled on a particular method. I begin by soaking my seeds in distilled water and hydrogen peroxide ten to one. I first observe the ratio of floating seeds to sunken seeds and then see how that changes over each 12 hours period until I am fairly certain that everything that will sink has been on the bottom for 12 hours. This can take 1-4 days, changing water/peroxide solution daily.

A $-store item around here are "deepish" plastic sealing containers roughly 4" wide x 8" long x 10" deep, clear plastic with translucent lids easy to see through. I buy coir by the brick and insulation-grade vermiculite in 50 lb bags. In a deep plastic bin I bury a couple bricks of coir in vermiculite then pour several large pots of boiling water on top to expand the coir. The vermiculite insulates the mixture so it takes a few hours to cool down to the point where the coir can be broken up wearing gloves. I mix in the center of the bin until I have roughly a 50/50 mix to fill the plastic containers three quarters to the top. I microwave the seeding medium in the plastic containers for 3-4 minutes to try to assure sterilization, with the lids loose. Once the seeding mixture has cooled I add 1-2 seeds per container and seal.

I watch for condensation on the lid to see if I have my moisture content correct. Best case is I do not open the container until germination, but if there is only a little condensation I will spray in some sterilized distilled water, and if it seem like a lot of condensation I will check to see how moist the mixture is, shake off the moisture on the lid if needed and repeat if necessary. If white mold develops I physically scrape off the soil surface and mold then spray lightly with copper sulfate solution, repeating as needed.

The light fluffy sterile mixture of vermiculite and coir was key. Coir is more neutral than peat and seems to be more consistent over many species, although peat works great with some things. The fungus and over-wet mixtures that were killing my seeds are in the past now.

Picture: Canarium ovatum sprouting using methods described above.

This message was edited Mar 21, 2013 9:44 PM

In a thread on the Texas forum somebody was commenting that they didn't think they'd so many to germinate bc so many floated. I've never found that method to be very accurate. Maybe it's just me.

Really depends on the species. I have a mature Terminalia catappa (Tropical Almond) tree in my yard. Right now I have two of the seeds floating in a rain barrel. I have also picked up many such seeds on the beach, in all kinds of different conditions. Obviously those seeds floated in the ocean from somewhere. The seeds of this species float, they will probably never sink until they become completely rotted. Other species, like the Canarium ovatum I show above, should sink if they are viable, this is not just my experience but it is also in the scientific literature (for example see http://www.worldagroforestry.org/treedb/AFTPDFS/Canarium_ovatum.pdf ,pg 37, and further references). So I guess I should qualify that part of my post above ... I have in mind those Canarium seeds and also recent projects like Musa (seeded banana species) and certain palms like genus Brahea that all were "sinkers".

In general, you are right, whether a seed floats or sinks is not necessarily are sure sign of viability, but it can be a very good indicator for many species ... but not all.

This message was edited Mar 22, 2013 12:29 AM

I had trouble with coir early this season... It never occurred to me that vermiculite would make a difference, as it does with other planting mixes. I'm happy to know about this, as I have a fair amount of it left. You say you get it from various sources. Have you had any problem with high salt content that some have mentioned?

Also, how fine or coarse is insulation grade vermiculite?

Thanks for sharing your methods!

Pam

I'm sorry Pam but can I laugh at you... Chia pets? Comeon really? LOL...... Where will you be planting them out in the garden... Oh am sorry, I'm being naughty....forgive...

Susie, sorry meant to say love the Crocus, not any in my garden yet...maybe one of these years after I get done planting new sections..

Welcome, welcome, welcome all new comers. Yes, great sharing methods so we can try new things if we find something that doesn't work...

And Pam, theoretically I can put 12- 11x22" flats per shelf and there are 4 shelves plus the floor. And if I use 2 1/2" pots thats 384 pots per shelf and a total of 1920 pots. But I don't have it all set up, so far I only have lights for 2 shelves. And again if I use other insert that hold more plants the counts could go up dramatically...Yikes!!!!! (ie 84s, 105s, 144s). The pix above of the foxglove came out of a single tray of 84 that fits a 11x22" tray, the nurseries refer to them as plug trays and is how they receive plants in the winter for potting on themselves. I ended up with 75...

And Pam, remember to buy yourself a bale of peat this summer at your local HD and take some with you when you head out next winter...then will be ready to go for next seasons seed starting.

Some things are looking great and ready for potting on and others I'm going to allow to get a bit bigger before they go into individual pots. Need to get some current pix, here's one from a few weeks ago, but can see the pots on the left side, these are nicotiana sylvestris....

Ooops, sorry, didn't dowload so tried again. They are double this size now and potting on should be soon. But much easier to handle when they get some girth to them...

Some things actually look like they could go into quart pots already...

Susie..you asked what fert. I've been using, not much at all...burned some a few weeks back and quite using for now. Put some peroxide/thrive on them last Saturday and will do again tomorrow. Again I keep them close to the lights and mist often... Some are doing better than others and growing like crazy...gave haircuts on many again today...lol.

Ok, enough for now..lol. Back later all, and have a good one.....snow 'spose to be here tomorrow night, (please!!!!!)

Pam - Two very good questions there, thank you for asking. I had to go and get the bag and look it up to accurately answer your question on grade. The vermiculite I have is packaged by WR Grace & Co. The product is described as "FPSV-2", which is "Fine Particle Size Vermiculite, Particle Size #2". The particle size cumulative distribution was in some product literature I found, so I attached the image. It shows a fairly linear distribution between roughly 40-200 microns, so it varies but relatively fine.

As to the salt, I have not noticed problems but I have not tested it either. Please do not laugh, but I actually just put some in my mouth to see *if* I could taste salt ... no it did not taste salty. A much better test would be to wash the vermiculite with water then boil the water down to see what remained. or boil it down to concentrate the wash then test for salt. I may try this in a controlled way and report back at some point just to be sure.

(Edit for grammar)

This message was edited Mar 22, 2013 4:14 AM

P.S. I have some beautiful Chia blossoming in my yard right now ... bees love it ... and so do I ... picture tomorrow.

Correct pix here...(one above is Digitalis on left), this one is the Nicotianas, they are in the second tray back on the right, there are 19 pots of multiples and they have atleast doubled in size or more. Ready for potting on and should fill their pots once transferred. I should have plants coming out of my ears before long... I may run out of pots....no only kidding, I hope!!!! Ok, night all.

That was some wonderful advice upthread on germinating Nicotiana sylvestris ... I have some seed from previous years and some new seed. That is one that had never reseeded for me ... no volunteers, so I am happy for anything new I can learn about it.
Good night!

I have room for 6 flats... Groan... I've started filling containers in the living room with shade plants, Alchemillas, Campanulas, Digitalis. The window is never closed (city apartments are overheated, it's the only way to keep the place from being an oven), so that coolness helps keep them somewhat in control. Of course they're still getting leggy and leaning, but they'll straighten up in the garden. I'm about to toss a couple of boring house plants from the big planter to make room for more of them.

Guygee, it's the coir that could have a concentration of salt. It's been suggested that it should be flushed with water as a precaution. Some of my plants looked like the roots were burned. But maybe the problem was the density, the roots rotted, and vermiculite solves that.

The Chia Pet... Some of my Nicotianas were so dense in the cells, looked like hundreds or thousands of seedlings... I felt like a murderer! I wish I could have sent some of the extras to you, Kathy!