Starting seeds for 2013, Part 2

I've never heard of Reemay, I'll have to look that up. I was trying to figure out how I could use bird netting. I have hundreds of birds that visit my yard daily. The California quail are the best at eating anything on top of the soil. One year we cleaned up a large area and put out a big bag of wildflower mix. we got one flower plant. . . one.
Thanks for the idea, I'll ask at the Farm Supply what's available.

Sometimes it's sold as frost blanket. It's a thin white spun fabric that allows like and rain through but not insects. I use it mostly as a season extender.

Pam you can go to Menard or any lumber yard & Get a 2x12x 8" for less then $12. & have them cut them to 4ft or keep them 8ft they make great shelves & do not sag . cheeper way to go & Last for years .
when not using for seeds you can use put contact paper or something colorful on the shelves :)

well off to take care of Molly Duck back later today .

Once we open the house I have more places to shop, but for now I'm still in NYC and there is less of that around. We don't have Menards on the east coast that I know of. The HD doesn't carry as much 'country' stuff as the one in CT, either does Walmart. There's no Lowe's in NYC. The choices are really limited., that's why I mail order so much.

Hi. New here and new to seed germination. I have 5 trays of seeds germinating in small coir pellets. Most seem to be off to a good start. A few questions...

1. Do I need to pot them after leaves start growing? If so, how do I choose the right size pot?

2. Some of the plants are leggy/spindly. What can I do to help them along or is it too late?

Thanks!

schaff20
Hi and welcome. Glad you seeds are germinating. What kind of plants did you sow? Inquiring minds wants to know. If I don't ask you I know someone else here will.

1] Since you said they are in trays, yes, I would pot them up when they have developed their first set of true leaves. The earlier the easier on the roots. In general, I would start individual seedlings in a 2" pot, if unavailable use a 3" foam pot. Actually they are foam coffer pots but are great----and cheap at Walmart. They can even be cut to a smaller size. Hard really to say what size since I don't know what kind of plant. Some grow faster than others and are better in a 3" pot. Others if tend to be slower-growing can benefit with a 2".

2] Never too late. Plants do get leggy/spindly if the quality of light isn't high enough. You didn't say where you have them growing. So, I will tell you how the rest of us here do it. We use flourescent plant light and keep it on for 16 hours per day, keeping the tubes about 2" above the leaves. Check above for using plant lights.

Since you live in NC you can probably put the plants out if no frost once they are repotted. Keep in mind that plants have to be acclimated/adjusted to the outdoors after growing indoors. I do it on the east of my house for 1 week. Once they have adjusted you can plant them in your garden.

schaff2
I should have mentioned that Walmart sells a window sill tray with 6-packs, as I call them except that they are many more of them. Can't remember how many and they are in my shed.

Below is a photo to show the 6-packs that I use. It is holding daylily seedlings that just germinated.

Lovely daylily babies, Blomma! And good advice, as always.

And schaf20, good for you to have 5 trays started, very enterprising. Blomma's right, inquiring minds want to know which plants you're growing, there are some differences how they should be treated. I learned this year that certain ones can be pruned while still very small to create bushiness. They need at least 4 true leaves first. I've trimmed Dianthus, Campanulas and Platycodons so far. Also, light is important. They get leggy otherwise. There are tons of pictures above of various people's set-ups, all different, and most are works in progress as we keep tweaking to get better and better results.

FOTV, I'm thinking of using Christmas lights outside in my mini greenhouse/ plant stand this year for a little extra warmth. I've read that it can really make a difference, and I really need that extra space this year. I have soooooo many babies!

Pfg,
If you are going to increase temps, you may want to increase light. Warmer temp will promote faster growth and may become leggy. I would grow them cooler, like commericial nurseries do for sturdier plant growth.

Ofcourse, if you just want to prevent too low temps in your mini greenhouse, I can see why you would want to ad the lights.

I'm thinking early April, when it can easily get below freezing outside overnight. I put out only the hardiest first, snaps, some perennials and the like.. I usually wait until the middle of the month, depending on weather. With just a little more heat, I could use it earlier, giving more room inside for those that need it.

Sorry, been mia. Welcome schaff, glad to see your doing babies too. Hope we can get you hooked!!

Newly sprouted:
Belamcanda
Polygonum orientale Kiss-Me-Over-The-Garden-Gate (New to me, hope they do great, anyone else ever grown them?)
Tomato: Cherry Sweet 100, Rosy Morn, Dora, Diener, Mexico, Porter, Tidwell German, Blackfoot, Cheokee Purple
Dianthus barbatus Bi-color (Sweet Williams)
Dianthus barbatus Salmon Pink
Dianthus barbatus Red
Lobelia siphilitica, Great Blue Lobelia, started 2 different pots, from 2 sources, my first try in Jan. never germinated, both of these have, YEAH!!!!
Lobelia siphilitica mix, has white and blue, Yeah!!!
Hibiscus: Pink Hardy, H. coccinas White texan Star, Pink Hardy (different source from 1rst), Lunar, Blue River, Party Favor, LOVE Hibiscus!!!!! Many will be new to me, and am thrilled to get soo many varieties!
Daisy, Shasta Dwarf
Alcea rosea Halo Cream
Centaurea scabiosa
Virginia Bunch Flower
Whew...lol..these are from the Seed Robin that's going around now.

Decided to build a regular stand instead, this one will be a bit longer and wider tho...wood cut, cut need to drill pilot holes and start putting it together. Got most of the lumber for about 75% off, some were cracked, some warpped, but was able to cut the sections off. So this stand will be less expensive than my previous stand....Thought I figured everything in and realized it last night, I goofed....shucks, all cuts were already made, I need a few more 1x2s for hanging the lights. Will have to wait til next week, blizzard coming in tonight....so they say.... Atleast I can get it put together.... And I willl be surrounding it in those foil blankets from walmart...

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your encouragement! I am sure I will be hooked in no time as long as I can get something edible out of it all! ;)

Spaced out over the last 4 weeks, I have started a few varieties each of...
broccoli
tomatoes - full size and cherry
peppers - sweet and hot
eggplants
onions
leek (just the bleu de solaise variety)
celery
kale
cucumber
basil (just the Emily variety)
and poppies (just one variety - california, maybe?)

They are in varying stages from "still waiting to germinate" to spindly to growing nice and strong. I will definitely stop at walmart this weekend to get pots for the ones that are ready to be moved. I also bought the materials to make a 4' grow light with 4 flourescent lights. Currently my trays are on a table over a heat vent and near a window with dappled sunlight. I only have a big enough light to put one box under it at a time, so I can't wait to see what happens when I can get them all there. I will raise and lower the level of the trays with wood scraps or something convenient so that they stay 2" from the light.

I also threw some carrot and lettuce seeds in a cold frame to see what would happen. Today is the first warm day, actually too warm, in the box so I hope they will take. I need to vent it a little better. Lots of trial and error. :)

Since everyone is so helpful... one of my next things to tackle is the weeds in my raised beds. We weren't able to control the grass well at all and have that awful grass with runners (is it bermuda?) that just won't die even though I've tried sprays and smothering. I can never get to the roots so when I pull what I can out, it just makes the soil nice and comfy for new grass weekds to grow. Never ending battle! How do I get rid of it so that my plants will have a place to grow??

Thanks again!

Welcome back, Kathy. Congrats on the Lobelia Siphilitica. It comes up here and there in my garden from old plants, and I love it. Did you pre-chill, or anything like that, or just use your regular method? I have seeds for the polygonum orientale but haven't done anything with them yet. Did they take long to sprout?

Usually I start my tomatoes around St Pat's Day, but we're going away next week, back on the 19th, so I'll do it- and a lot more stuff- when we get back.

Schaff, you have quite a list there! I'm sure your lettuce will do well in the cold frame as long as you are able to keep it from overheating during the day. Peppers, cukes and basil hate cold, so they shouldn't go out until temps are settled and warmer. Onions, leeks are probably ok sooner. I have no experience with carrots or eggplants

About tomatoes... I like to start mine in peat pellets, the only thing I use them for. Once they're up and out from under the dome, I put them in the bottom of a deep-ish container, last year I used 16 oz solo cups. As they grow taller, I keep adding potting mix, taking off all but the top leaves and adding enough to cover the stem. They grow new roots from the stem, so by the time they go out they have a long, deep root system. Also, enough light is very important to keep them from getting too tall too fast.

Yikes, weeds-- bane of my existence! Maybe someone here has a good solution.

Yup, that Lobelia sprouted in 4,5 &6 days. Nope, didn't prechill the Lobelia but did on the Polygonum. Poly. went into the fridge for approximately 1 month. Took out 3/1 or 2 and the red sprouted today 3/8. Looking for the pink to sprout now.

Thanks pfg! I went to Walmart and found the plastic 3x3 trays. They were $4.50 for each. The biodegradable ones were pennies each but were individual round pots and I wasn't sure how to contain them all easily. If anyone has a brilliant idea, I can exchange them. :) I didn't buy the potting soil yet because I wasn't sure what mixture was best so I'll reread some of the posts above first.

There are very tiny leaves emerging in the cold frame. Time will tell if they are weeds or vegetables.....

Yes, weeds are awful! Am hoping someone will have a good solution.

I really appreciate all of this advice and am trying to soak it in one step at a time!

one more thing. Do these seed potatoes look good to you? The tops aren't growing and the bodies feel a bit soft. Do I need to start over?

I have no idea... Anyone?

I like chicken wire to keep birds, squirrels and cats away.

>>> tomatoes - full size and cherry
>>> peppers - sweet and hot
>>> eggplants

These need a lot of warmth outdoors. Put them outdoors last., or bring them in at night.

>> 2. Some of the plants are leggy/spindly. What can I do to help them along or is it too late?
>> on a table over a heat vent and near a window with dappled sunlight.


Cooler indoor nights and cooler air, probably.
Seedlings always benefit from a fan, as long as heat plus breeze don't dehydrate them.
Maybe less fertilizedr or less rich soil.
More light!!



>> 1. Do I need to pot them after leaves start growing? If so, how do I choose the right size pot?

I think there are 2-3 popular strategies. If you are starting in "insert" cells or tiny pots, you could wait until they are starting to get rootbound. Then the roots and soil will pop out as a firm root ball that won't easily fall apart and tear the roots.

If you sowed in flats or "20-row" trays, I think you would need to "prick them out" pretty early, before the roots got too intertangled. That would be when there are only 1-2 pairs of "true" leaves. Then, you don 't care too much if the soil falls off the tiny root. It will be too small to be torn apart by ther soil falling off.

There are people who sow in milk jugs ("winter sowing"). That is like sowing in flats, but many winter-sowers get along fin e lettin g the seedling roots grow together into one big mass that can't be untangled. They might plant that big mass in one chunk and let the crowded seedlings fight it out, or might tear the b ig chunk into 4 or more smaller chunks, allowing some seedlings' roots tol be torn apart, but6 expect the remaining seedlings in each clump to do well.

Since you are growing in coir pellets, I think you have a free choice of when you "pot up". If you have plenty of space for lots of bigger pots, you can move the coir pellets into their final home early or late.

Just don't leave them in their coir pellets so long they get root bound, or starved for fertilizer. Say, give them bigger pots before they have 3-4 pairs of true leaves.

What's the earliest you can give them bigger pots? I would say as soon as the seedling seems "established" enough that it's stable and doesn't need pampering like humidity or temperature control. One pair of true leaves is old enough to "leave the nest" and get more soil and presumably start getting mild fertilizer or richer "real" soil. That assumes your bigger pots ares till indoors or very sheltered.

After you go from the very gentle conditions of germination and emergence, you will have to "harden them off" as you transition to the relatively harsh daylight and drying breezes of outdoors. They need some sheltered spot during the transition (like shade and protection from wind). A porch? Under or among some bushes? Ideally, warmish days with overcast. That might work better with somewhat older seedlings - like 3-5 pairs of true leaves.

But it also depends on the plant: is it "delicate" or sturdy. Does it have plenty of cold-hardiness for your weather, or will you have to bring it back inside at night?

Is your yard very sunny, shady, windy, or loaded with slugs, insects, rabbits or deer?

"It depends". You'll know better next year, I think every gardener has to make SOME mistakes just to learn his or her own conditions.

Grass with runners sounds awful - crab grass or Bermuda, both are awful. If no good solutions are suggested here, you might post a pictures to the Plant ID forum to get the ID and any advice (or commiseration).

I'm not sure where to look for advice on removing grassy weeds with runners and deep roots. I've seen horrid things suggested, but what WORKS is a good question. Once you know the name and some synonyms, you might search many forums. Just remember there are two classes of advice:
1. you COULD try this: .... and
2. I DID try this and it DID work well.

For much easier weeds, "hoe their heads off ,every few days" and "pull out as many roots as you can by loosening the soil around them with a knife or trowel" might discourage the weeds over time.

Maybe just covering with black or clear plastic until it cooks deeply will help.

I doubt if mulching will hurt crabgrass much.

The lighter and looser your soil is, the easier you can pull ALL the roots out.

IS there a herbicide that will control crabgrass? How man y other plants will it kill, and how long will it persist?

Or you might have to set up a 1/2" screen over a wheelbarrow, and dig out all the soil and ALL the roots, screen the roots OUT of the soil, and return the soil to your beds.


Plant ID
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/plantid/all/

Invasive Plants:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/invasives/all/

Pests:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/pad/all/

schaff20 We Plant Potatoes every yr & yes some times they might be soft But not MUSHY , we Dig our trench take a BUCKET of Taters Cut in 1/2s or 1/4 Just be sure there are eyes on each tater part . drop into trench about 1ft apart . water well cover with soil . let grow . I see you PEEL Yours we do not Peel .

this is how we do it Not saying others have to guess ev1 have their own ways . hope it helps .

I have an old potato that I didn't get around to eating, and it's got 4" sprouts all over--should I cut each sprout section off and plant it?

Blomma and Pam, Evelyn said there is a beginners seed forum....is this it? You both have been helping me on other threads and when I saw your names I wondered if I was at the correct place. I do not want to waste anyone's time asking the same questions at two different places. I need one spot only. ☺ There is so much good stuff on here, I need to take time to read it all. I will wait to hear from you as to where I belong. : ) JB

KY, yes! Be sure to let the cuts dry for a day or two before you put the parts in the ground, so that they won't mold.

Jb, yup...many here to answer questions...and you just might get a few different ideas for your particular needs too...lol. Not saying anyone is necesairly wrong, just a few different ways in which to accomplish something. Welcome!!!

More new sprouts:
Dicentra macropnos
Berginia grandis susp. eransii
Agastache Arcado Pink
Solidago unk which, am hoping it's the tall one
Datura Black Current Swirl

In the midst of a raging blizzard here today....Yeah!!!!!!!! 'Spose to get 10+", winds now about 35+ and this afternoon 50+....

Dreaming of springtime flowers!!!

Oh my , don't you hate that? We had it all day yesterday it was the left over from a 3 day Nor'easter. I am so sick of rain, snow, clouds I could scream. I need Spring. Be safe and stay well. I will keep in touch after I read the back posts.

I am working on the Plant Scout's entries today since I had most of them inactive since we had the Hurricane Sandy. Nothing is easy anymore and I need to get my cuttings in soil. I have been selling houseplants online for several years but I just can not grow seeds. I know I over water them. I just purchased some self watering trays. I will do this one way or the other.
See you soon. Thanks.JB

Thanks for the tater planting advice, lanakila!

Welcome, JB. Lots off good ideas here. Different methods work for different people, keep trying until you find what works best for you.

Self-watering has for many years made it possible for me to be a part time off-season gardener. I've stayed in one place for the last couple of months, but that's about to change. Next week we'll be away for several days, then we open the house at the end of the month, and from then on we'll be back and forth. I have to change my set-up there this year, because last summer we bought a new couch for the area where I've started my seeds in the past.

What a gorgeous day here, after two days of cold and wind and sludge. Aaahhhh spring, I can almost smell you...

Yikes, Kathy, you have D Black Currant Swirl already?! I soaked mine the other day and planted it yesterday, along with La Fleur Lilac and a double white. I don't expect sprouts for 10 days or more, going by last year. I didn't do the straight Datura inoxa yet, but think that's a mistake as it's apparently the most fragrant. I'll rectify that tonight as soon as I get home.

Thanks for the info on Lobelia Siphilitica. I've read some conflicting advice on stratification. Do you know how old/fresh your seeds are?

Hmmmm... I'm a bit late on the polygonum ... Maybe I'll try spring sowing (my version of WS) at the house... That has worked well for me in the past...

New sprouts today:
Datura white/purple , any guesses to possible name? ( think maybe this is Black Current Swirl too?)
Aster dark purple
Penstemon digitalis Husker's Red
Salvia patens Patio White
Lupine rivalaris sicklekeeled
Campanula Zeger
Sidalcea campestris
Datura stramonium
Polygonum orientale Kiss-Me-Over-The-Garden-Gate, Pink

Pam...my Blk. Current Swirl took 5 days under lights in my domed tray. Didn't soak them either...must be fresh. They were from the seed trade, from Chris 316. This season collect some seed from your most fragrant for me...lol. Oh ya, thanks in advance!!! LOL.
The Lobelia s. Great Blue came from Primrose, sprouted in 6 days. Lobelia s came from Blue Spiral, sprouted in 4 days, Lobelia perenn. mix (white and blue) came from czimmerman, sprouted in 6 days. I'm guess they were all fresh..wasn't sure I was even going to get any cuz of my first attempt, lol. Now they will be coming out of my ears..

The Polygonums are new for me, have always loved the way they look..have read they self sow..not the case? (was hoping they were). Still waiting for the pink variety to sprout tho...just looked..yeah, is also sprouting.... I got them from Select Seed last fall when they were half priced. I'll have to keep them close to the lights, making them stalkier and keeping them a bit shorter..yikes we still have 9 weeks before they can go outside, maybe 10 before I plant them out...
Sounds like a long way off but truely it isn't...lol. Maybe I should get that plastic up on the shed. It's suppose to get into the 60's this week, so snow should be gone in a few days. Glad too, I'm stuck in the driveway at the moment. lol.

Pix 1: Passiflora carulea, is suppose to have edible fruit, anyone ever try it? Right now have 2 in the bathroom (has skylight), just waiting to be planted, figured I wouldn't take the chance on planting them late in the season so they went in for the winter.
Pix 2: just some spring color for ya all to drool over..no just kidding, just enjoy....flowers will be here soon for us northerners..lol.

OK, I'm drooling...

I've also read that the polygonum- KMOTTG- self-sows. Actually, I'm not sure where to put them as I think they Ike to be propped up, and I have a scarcity of spots for climbers. As it is, I have to find places for a bunch of clematis I bought last year from a co-op, always assuming they re-appear, of course. So I think I'll hold off on those this year. I'm very interested to see how they do for you, though.

My Daturas are from trade except for Black Currant Swirl, that's from T&M. I hope they sprout before we leave on Thursday (for a few days in the sun-yippee!), but if not, that's OK too.

Salvia Victoria Blue, Nicotianas Fragrant Cloud and Niki Pink have sprouted, waiting for N Langsdorfii and all the Snapdragons.

One last tweak on the set-up, extended the home-made reflector. Still want to get a space blanket but this will do for now.

Oh yes...the annuals, it's time isn't it...lol. Still working on putting my new stand together, need to stop and get some more lumber for the lights now. Reconfigured it a bit and reajusting the shelves a bit. Some will be taller for those plants that get soo tall before going out. (Tomatoes, and they are getting nice and stalky). Will be putting up those foil sheets all the way around, we'll see how great that works.

Love the Salvia victorias. I have seed also, guess I should finish my stand so I can start some other things. And I have many to get potted on. I better go dumpster diving soon....lol.

Something weird happened today. When I soaked my Datura seeds, the double white the next day had some white-ish stuff coming out, I thought it might be the very beginning of germination. So I've been expecting them to pop up any minute. I realize it's only been 3 days since they went into the pots, but still... So this morning I felt around a little, very gently pulled the soil off in one corner about about 1/4" down until I found a seed... And nothing! Nothing at all except a seed that looked like the day I took it out of the packet. No swelling, no cracks, no nothing! So l looked for another one, it looked exactly the same. Hmph! I feel gypped!

I know, patience is a virtue. I hate that, don't you all?!

On the bright side, all the Nicotianas and most of the Snapdragons appeared today, and there are lots of baby Dianthus Zings moved form the baggy into cells.

Your KMOGG will self-sow, but not annoyingly. Enough that you can give some away, not so many that you could smack yourself with a shovel for planting them. I grow the variegated variety, and maybe 10% of the seedlings will be green. I give them away or compost them.

Pfg,
You went through exactly what I did with Datura seeds. I also though it was the beginning of sprouting. Happened 3 times then I gave up and sowed them in Jiffy and they came up in 6+ days. I have no idea what that white stuff is.

Do you use GA-3 with your Daturas? I think it helps.

How funny! Doesn't seem fair, does it, to tease us like that?

Even though Deno worked for me last year, I put mine in soil this time because I'm going to be away, and if they came up in the paper towel they might have to sit there too long. I used MG starting mix, figuring they shouldn't mind the heavier texture.

Everything else now I'm adding tons of Vermiculite, at least 50%. Kim_M is the Vermiculite queen, she says they don't rot in it. So far, so good. I wish I'd done that for some of the perennials, Penstemon palmerii, for instance. :-(

Celine, you made me laugh out loud... Ouch, that would hurt...

Cross-post... I meant the smack with the shovel...

I haven't tried G-3 yet. I figure that can wait until next year, I'm pretty full up by now, need room for annuals, tomatoes, etc. But I definitely plan to try again next year with some of the more difficult ones, and add whatever it takes. JL Hudson is a good source, I think...

JL Hudson is where I get mine, and they sell pre-treated seed. You laugh, I will take a photo of the morning glory that will. never. die. next spring. It grows in the cracks in the sidewalk. It doesn't need soil. I think the cultivar is #@^$%!!!' It goes with "Mint will be fine in the flower bed, I can keep it weeded into submission." Me. Shovel. Thwack!