Here goes... Pretreatment: Starting the first seeds for 2013

You are right, they are not that small. I was comparing them to iris and daylily seeds. For lack of room, I am only growing one plant. I gave the rest to my daughter.

You can divide a plant. That is what my daughter did. She has plenty of space---80 acres in the boonies with sandy soil. They are doing there. They have 6 horses roaming the land, except where her gardens are.

Veronica spicata, 5-10 days, under lights
Veronica gentianoides, 9 days, " "
Baptisia australis (False Indigo), my Alba took 6 days
Baptisia australis " " " , (the blue didn't sprout and stuck in fridge, seed might not be viable not sure, or old), did a couple of years ago and sprouted in 15 days under lights
Penstemon x Mexicallee Psmyers, 9 days under lights
Penstemon palmerii, 13 days under lights
Penstemon (? a gift from a garden club member, only description, large pink flower), 11-12 days, under lights
Penstemon (neighbor's pink), 7 days under lights
Penstemon strictus 7-12 days
Linum perenne Blue Flax (perennial), under lights 27 days, also reseeds in the garden, if your's don't make it, let me know I have hundreds of plants as I've let them reseed as much as they want in the garden. Flowers late spring for approx. 4-6 weeks. Morning blooms and they either close or drop their petals and a gorgeous site if you have a patch of them. When they are done blooming let them drop their seed and then cut back. They last about 3 years before they get ucky, they I just yank them and let the others take over....soooo pretty.
Pix 1-3 flax, pix 2 all the open ground around this plant has been filled in with babies

Blomma..pretty pix, I have both maximillion and Lemon Queen (at my daughter's, I had planted it to hide their airconditioning unit til the trees grew up around it and they did, so it's come home to mama now...)

Hey blomma what's your centaurea?

Pam keep me in mind come spring if it doesn't sprout, when I movethose plants home they will have to be divided, but you gotta remind me...lol (Notebook time, lol, how long is that list......)

This message was edited Jan 28, 2013 8:11 PM

My Centaurea? Are you referring to C. macrocephala with yellow thistle like bloom? Where did you see it. Can't remember postin on Daves.

By the way, Flax can also be grown from cuttings, so my huge garden book states. My daughter loves that plant and allows it to grow wild.

By the way, there is nothing like "old" seeds. If such thing, we would lose many plant varieties/genus. Howeveer, having said that. Many tree seeds and some tropical plants require seeds that are old for them to sprout. But here, "old" is a plus, not a negative. Also in contrast to some statements, some seeds of plants have to be fresh when sown. There again, we would lose plants.

Why?

If you think about it, Nature devised a plan for all varieties of plants not to die out and keep many generation going. How? By assuring that conditions are right for a particular plant seed to germinate and survive. It is called dormancy and why some seeds take longer to sprout than others, depending on where they came from originally.

Seeds from places that receive scant rains will take longer to sprout since in Nature, they will not sprout until the rain comes to assure their survival. Rain may be a certain time of year. Night and day temperature also plays a role.

One fascinating behavior is found in daylilies and irises. As soon as a flower is pollinated, and a pod is developing, the plant alllows food and keeps that stem green. All others without a pod is withheld food, turns brown and dries up. I see this every year and find it awesome. It makes you wonder if plants don't have a brain.

Hey Kathy, those lists are growing!

Blomma, very cool...

Yay, my Digitalis Camelot sprouted.

I decided to plant half my remaining Helianthus seeds in seed starting mix under the dome, and the other half Deno in the frig for 2 weeks. The first batch is still doing nothing.
Aquilegia Maggie Mae and Nora Barlow have been in the frig for 6 weeks and look like they may be opening up. I put them in pots too, with a light sprinkle of vermiculite-- now that I have it, I'm using it, LOL, and put them under the dome.

I also started more Alchemilla, I need a bunch under a PG Hydrangea, and Campanula White Clips, I've promised a few too many to others and need more for myself. And I found a dozen or so more Dianthus Loveliness seeds stuck to the plastic bag and planted those too. I think that's it for a while, at least until I see what comes up. If all goes well with what's done up to now, I don't start anything else until it's time to do the petunias and snaps and other slow annuals next month.

I absolutely love the helianthus and the centaurea. I planted like 15 kinds of seeds in a 128 cell tray yesterday and also did a tray of 2 1/2 inch pots.
A lot of them are from Kathy but some I picked out of the seed robin.
My daughter finally got the new "Bird and Butterfly" garden area cleaned up and ready to plant. This is where I plan on putting all the new flowers and "weeds" for the native wildlife. I'll put the short ones nearest the greenhouse so that they don't shade it too badly. then the tallest will go either right at the top of the hill or maybe even down on the lower tier. I'll alternate the perennials and the annuals so in the off season it will still look good.

I sowed many of the Aquilegia strains years ago. Problem with them is that they are hybrids so self sow but does not come true from seed, which was disappointing. The hybrids I found are not long-lived.

Pfg instead of using the fridge, why not use the outdoors to stratify seeds. The fridge is cold but it is an even temperature. Whereas outdoor temperature flunctuate, which I found encourages sprouting on those perennials that need it.

domehomedee, I would give 3 weeks for winter climate and 2 weeks for spring/summer climate. The shill is more important than warmth to germinate.

I've been kind of alternating heat and cold. If they don't come up on the mat I take them out to the greenhouse which gets cold at night. I've had a few come up that way that I thought were goners. I'll leave them out there into Spring and the warmer weather as there are some that haven't come up at all and may just come up in Spring if I keep them out there. I've had quite a bit of luck with foxglove, two kinds are up now, yellow and blue. I also have several penstemons, salvias, and asclepias. Oh and some oenotheras too. I'm excited about them, I've only had one oenothera before; horned poppy, and it was an interesting plant, huge seed pods.
Here's another strange one: tinantia. Anyone grown this? I have quite a few up and doing well. I'm not quite sure if they should go in the shade or in the sun so I think I'm going to just put them around my yard and see where they like it. Really nice leaves on them, very woodland looking.

Dome, that will look great! What a nice idea!

Blomma, the CT house is closed for the winter and I'm gardening in a NYC apartment until the end of March. I have 3 shelves with lights in the kitchen window and the frig, that's about it. I'd love a window box or two so I can WS, but our frames are not traditional and I haven't worked out how to do it so the box is secure enough not to fall 11 stories and get smashed. Also we face a courtyard and get very little sun. Pic is from last month, just getting started.

I did set my daughter up this weekend. They have a house a couple of hours away with a big deck safe from wildlife, just perfect for winter sowing. She's just getting into it, 2nd winter there so we started small-ish.

Sorry meant that as a post to susie on germination times...oooops.
Blomma you didn't post a pix but was next to your Rudbeckia in the above pix.....yes I have also that's how I recogonized it as Centaurea, just wasn't sure which one so was asking...lol, always on the look out for different Centaureas, just love 'em...
Dome all the Centaureas (except C. macrocephala , only mid summer), will bloom the WHOLE season, just remember to deadhead...

New seedlings up:
Rose China Rose
Rudbeckia fulgida
Hibiscus moscheutos 'Big And Pretty'
Alcea Creme de Cassis, yum...sooo pretty
Alcea 'Blackwatchman', spose to be 6-8ft, can't hardly wait
Alcea unk variety from seed trade
Cheirianthus allionii

Potting on Digitalis purpurea Pink/purple, here's some pix...

kathy been wanting Alcea Creme de Cassis, So if you have seeds next fall Love to get a few also looking for any DBL HHocks I have none DBL's I hae the Black watchman & Mine was about 8ft this year Love it .

ok susie...when I get home tonight I will make up a few packets of seed for you. Not sure what I've got on the Creme de Cassis tho, am thinking it was new seed but let me check tonight, might have some older seed. Had some double seed from years ago but will have to look for that also. How's that for an answer.....lol. (Have to pick up 4 high schoolers and then back home.) I do have some Creme de Cassis in the garden but not sure if it bloomed last summer.....some of my hollyhocks only got to be a foot tall and were overlooked....

Kathy now I am confused. I don't have a Rudbeckia and don't like them due to their weediness. My son has them.

Oh so sorry was Helianthus pix above (1/28/13, 1049am, 2nd pix, bottom of pix is the Centaurea)

if anyone has any extra Helianthus I would like to try that also can ya tell me if it would do well in P/SUN also or not ??

Ok Kathy, you restored my sanity. LOL!

Lol!!!! Seeeeee, I did reconize the foliage.....tee hee!! Wasn't sure if us gardeners had any of that...sanity stuff.. Heliopsis, Helianthus, Rudbeckias, all the same family pretty much....

I was just thinking (dangerous for me) how come none of you gardener gals/guys mention or have a coldframe? I could not garden without one when I was sowing a bunch of perennials. I still use it for extra room for small seedlings of iris and daylilies.

It is a simple box of scrap lumber the size of a door. Was going to use a glassed door but decided to build a frame to hold shade cloth instead. I built it agains a link fence so I could have something to hold up the cover when not needed.

I sowed seeds in the spring and when large enough to handle into the coldframe they would go. I sowed the second batch of seeds in July. By the time August rolled around the first batch were large enough to plant out, leaving room in the coldframe for the second batch of seedlings. These would stay in the coldframe all winter. By spring they were husky plants. They were never babied. It was a test to see how hardy they were. I gardened for years in Massachusetts, then Nebraska. Both had a warmer climate than Wyoming and you never had to water in Mass.

Below is my first coldframe, and my new one filled with iris seedling planted May 2012

I owned and operated a commercial greenhouse in Nebraska specializing in drought resistant perennials for the midwest. Plus houseplants. Coming from Massachusetts it was a learning experience and a culture shock.

I did a lot of potting up in the last couple of days. My shelves are starting to fill in. I had to order more 2 1/2" pots from Greenhouse Megastore. I didn't bring in enough from the house so now I'm almost out. I like theirs because they are 3 1/2" deep instead of 2 1/2" like most, more root room in less space. While I was at it I ordered some 3 1/2" which are also deep, to use instead of the 4" which I am also running low on, to save some space. For one thing I can fit 8 into my little propagator instead of 6. Doesn't seem like a lot- especially when I look at what you're doing, Kathy! - but it makes a difference to me.

Blomma, where in Mass? I'm from Lexington... It's been years since I've been back...

I had a cold frame on LI. I loved it! It had a solar powered vent that opened when the temp got to 70 inside to keep the little darlings from cooking, and a bunch of water bottles that would heat up during the day and keep the temp up at night. I haven't figured out yet where to put one in CT. Meanwhile I use a mini-greenhouse. I hang a piece of Reemay behind the door and leave the zippers open, with clothespins so it doesn't blow wide open, and put a couple of 1/2 gallon jugs of water on the bottom shelf. In the spring I use it constantly to park and/ or harden off whatever can take it cool- perennials, snapdragons, eventually tomatoes...

Pfg,
I lived in Gt Barrington for 20 years. Moved up from Long Island, NY where we rented.so didn't get into gardening. Didn't know what I was missing back then. LOL!

Holy Cow! You sure had a fancy coldframe. Are you sure that is what it was?.

I now have the same setup that you show above, including the cover. Bought it last spring from the Dollar Store to hold all my Daylily seedling.

Since I really needed a bunch of pots, I bought foam coffe pots from Walmart. That is what the daylilies are in. A screwdriver easily punches hold for drainage. I wash mine and reuse them. They take writing with a marker and Whiteout covers any writing. When I ship plants, that is what they come in. I prefer them over plastic for they insulate the roots and are light weight.

Below is mine with 156 seedlings in 2012 before warm enought to plant in the nursery.

Oh yes, it was a cold frame, home made but great. My ex dug it down about 1 foot and lined the sides with plywood, made a slanted frame for the top, then put an old window on it. The vent was a hinged arm that pushed the top up a few inches depending on temp. I have one now, but can't figure out how to attach it to what I have now. I'm looking at a similar upright setup from Gardener's Supply maybe for this year, I could put the solar vent under one of the top openings, or even sideways behind one of the doors. I'd still use Reemay as a critter barrier, I think..

http://www.gardeners.com/Patio-Grow-House/39-315,default,pd.html?start=2&cgid=GreenhousesSheds_CompactGreenhouses

OK, now I'm back to the question of mini-blinds. HD, JCPenny, KMart around here have lots of cheapo 1" but the 1/2" are special order and $$$$$. Do you just get whatever costs less and cut them? Or are the narrow ones more available where you are?

Cheaper the better just make sure they are vinal The ptouch lables stick better & Last Longer.
or #2 lead pencil writes on them well also .

My mini-blind slats ARE 1" wide. I got them (they looked new) from a Habitat for Humanity "restore". I think it was $3 or $5 for a lifetime supply. Waste not, want not!

I often cut my mini-blinds in half or even thirds, to get tiny narrow labels for trays of inserts or propagation cells ("plug trays"). Plus, they hold the Saran Wrap up off the soil surface.)

I like a 0.9 mm mechanical pencil for writing on blind slats. It leaves a wider, darker mark, and it's always sharp!

0.7 mm leads are OK, but I often break the 0.5 mm lead when I try to add lots of text in fine print.

I had a garden friend send me a bunch of labels he had made. They were from 1" wide blinds and 10" long. He folded it right where the hole for the rope would go. It staples at the ends. He recommended using a pencil to mark with.

Try finding used blind at the Salvation Army, or stores that sell used items.

This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 4:42 PM

>> He folded it right where the hole for the rope would go.

Or you can punch a hole for a string in vinyl blind slats with a paper-punch. If the hand-held kind gets tiring, borrowing a three-hole punch with a lever handle makes it easy.

I never considered stapling a string to a slat and tying it to a branch. I stick them in the soil where they are too far away to read easily!.

No stapling the 2 ends of the blinds together after it is folder around the plants. Guess I wasn't clear.

blomma, I don't have a cold frame as such...lol. But what I do have is a horse stall on the backside of the garage, 13ft wide x 15-18 ft deep (can't remember). I use 12 or 14 mil plastic to enclose the whole thing and move plants out as they grow a bit and I've potted them on for a few weeks... Only those things that can handle to cooler temps go out first. Dianthus, daisies, Verbascums, ie. plants that begin bloom earliest in the season. I also cover the plants as needed with a sheet of remay til they toughen up a bit. It's located on the west side but the sun doesn't hit it til after 12pm and the trees and the top of the hill cut off direct sun about 3-4pm. I vent by pulling back the plastic as the season progresses, but only when needed. I have two cold frames on the backside of the house I built several years ago til I went to the back of the garage where the corral area is located. There's also enough room in the corral (which is fenced) to put up an 8x10 greenhouse..may plastic it in again just not sure yet as the wind is very nasty on that side and I've had problems with it a few years ago.....It's a wind tunnel area.....

Pix 1 tree line above me to the west, edge of corral gate on the right, 5 of the 7 trees on the 5 acre property are located toward the top
Pix 2 is the area where the wind comes from in spring, and the location my summer rain deluges come from in July, (MY backyard pix where I've been installing my landscaping this fall ('12), so far put in 167 trees and shrubs. this spring and summer most of the babies I'm growing now will be going in....(the pots are 170+ Iris g. that went in late November, around and inbetween shrubs).

I use the 1" mini blinds from walmart $3-5ish ( the widest for the cheapest....), I cut them apart into approx 1/2"x21/2", bigger if needed, have used Sharpie(perm.) markers but they fade after a few years, at 6800 ft. that probably more often than those that live at a lower altitude...am experimenting with with 2 different lablers to see which I like best and is sunfast for me...

More potting on today, will get back to it after supper of when I get done goofing around here...lol....No No Don't get the whip out!!!!!

Hey pam ....is there something wrong with my eyesight or is there something wrong with your pix????? LOL. (last nights post, am supprised noone said anything yet....lol...see I do look at the pix here......

Hmmmm.... What's wrong? I talked about the cold frame, no pics of that, then mentioned the mini- greenhouse, 2 pics of that from last year...

Thanks all for the info on the blinds. So 1" it is... They're not quite as cheap here, but DD got one in NJ in her neighborhood for 2.97.

Kathy, how long have you been working on this project? 5 acres is massive! I've seen pics of areas that look very established, you must have been at it for a while.

My main area is 2 or 3 acres, but the main landscaping is very established, and in some areas, very old. My challenge has been to clean it up and renew it after a long period of decline. Of course I want to add more variety and express my creativity as well, lol.
Pics 1-3 are from 2008. I was already busy with the Roundup.
Pic 4 is 2011, the section which was almost solid ferns, except for goldenrod, raspberries and whatever else could squeeze itself in there.
Pic 5 is last summer. The shrubs that had the bittersweet in them are halfway down on the right. This level is getting better, but still three levels more with lots left to work on...

This message was edited Jan 30, 2013 11:02 PM

Pix on 1-29 1002pm...lol, was it a bit late that nite, (enlarge). Let me know when you figure it out.

Have been here 5 years I think, gosh how time flies or is it six? Anyway, I moved in the fall and couldn't start anything til the following spring, I remember starting seeds that first winter. Plowed 1 acre that first spring. Then began laying out my areas. First area I began on is the main border, (has taken years to fill it in). Considering I grew most of the plants in my 40ft wide X 100ft long main garden. Am thinking it's pretty much filled with plants now and just am looking for it to fill in so I can see what I have...Editing comes next and fill occasional open areas with annuals and a few perenns.

That same spring I laid out holding beds, 3ft wide and 25-35ft long, am thinking I had about 15 beds. This is where I would plant all my seedlings til I got around to getting them into the main border, planting most about 8" apart. Much easier to keep track of babies that way...atleast when I started... It was fun cuz I could go out into the garden and say "Gosh, I wanna plant 10 of these and another 7 of that and 3 of this and another 7 of that in this area of the border" and could go out to the holding beds and dig out what I needed. Now, sad to say, the feild grasses have taken back most of it. Will be trying to reclaim this coming year.....I didn't wanna use round up but am ready this time to do such... I will start out this spring rototilling what I can cuz I already have many of the shrubs linned out in the backyard inbetween those that are part of my now landscaped backyard.

This is the reason for growing soo many babies. I'm not sure yet as to what will be going in where this coming season, but atleast I will have the plants and can pick and choose as I need. Am hoping most of the flowers I'm growing from seed now will be going into the backyard. The BONES are in so now onto decorating my new room!!!!

I have some other areas that had been started a few years ago but but didn't get to much last summer due to the heat and so many forest fires in the region, seemed like the smoke was a daily occurance and I just stayed out of it....I am hoping this year is better!!!!!! I wish our drought would end now!!! I hate spending time doing nothing but watering..I got goodies to plant!!!! I wanna get back to playing and enjoying myself out there....lol. I do know that come spring I'm going back to using my alarm clock....up at dawn.....

Hey...I thought deer slept at night.....had one on the front porch at 11:30 pm...how bad is that, went out and chased it off.....

Just love the pix Pam....in a way I wished I already had mature trees and shrubs, but then again am glad I have an open palette which to work and play.....I get to plant those things that "I" want.....and where "I" want them. I am looking forward to seeing and smelling my Lilacs, Yoshino cherry tree, Linden tree, Spiareas, Roses, Viburnums, Weigelia and Hydrangeas bloom in the coming years...and My Cecise canadensis......got 3. Oh and one of my favs, Mock Orange!!! Oooh and Honeysuckle too!

Pix 1&2 the last area of the border that was planted ( 1)before planting, (2) some planted (looking south)
Pix 3 show it was finished and things beginning to knit (see how small everything looks, yikes!! (looking north,downhill)
Pix 4&5 are from last summer (looking north downhill), there are about 2500+ plants out there, let me tell ya that's alot of seeds!!!!

Pix got rearranged oops, pix 3 was suppose to have been #1

This message was edited Jan 31, 2013 3:06 PM

I think you're talking about the pic of my NY window set-up followed by the WS project I got my daughter into. They just moved into their house fall of 2011 and need everything.

The first summer they tried a few things that for one reason or another didn't work out... The deer got some stuff, the irrigation wasn't working right, and the last straw was that kid they hired to mulch buried all the little babies I'd started for her, that she'd nurtured for a couple of months. He's history, lol! This year she wants to get serious. They have this big elevated deck, perfect for WS, and there isn't that much room inside for seeds without making a mess. So last weekend we spent a day getting her going. Their local nursery has Pro Mix, but for pots we had to use Solo cups, I was already getting low. Now I have plenty, my order came today from Greenhouse Megastore.

I guess the grass is always greener... I love what you've done, and I love seeing the before and along the way. Lucky you to have a space to bring up the babies... So you can go 'shopping' on your own property... I usually have a collection of pots sitting around that I don't know what to do with, and I usually lose a few This year I bought a bunch of decent sized self-watering pots on sale at Wal-mart, about a dozen, I figured I'll stick a bunch of babies in those so they don't get neglected and croak. If they do anything good I can always find some place they'll be appreciated. But boy, would I ever love a nursery bed...

You and I have been at it about the same amount of time. In 2007, the first year, I went to CT, I tried to be subtle...two reasons: One, I knew it would be a huge job to turn the place around and I wasn't sure I wanted it (my first thought was. ('Ooooohhhhhhh S***!!!), and Two, new relationship, didn't want to seem too aggressive (lol, I guess he saw through that!). Now we're newlyweds, but the jig has been up in the garden since that summer. By the end of it I ruled.

Isn't it fun to be able to play with mature-ish plantings, begin to make real statements instead of all that babying--- and killing! I don't have even one picture from 2009 because everything was so ugly... Either dead or dying, or minuscule, or bare brown earth. Last year I barely used Roundup at all for the first time. I will have to again this spring because I let a section get away from me that had been cleared, now it's a mess again and there's some nasty stuff in it. I meant to lay down cardboard on it this fall but never got to it. So if I want to plant this spring I have to get drastic. Oh well... Win some, lose some... But not for long! HAH! I rule! Lolol...

Nothing new in the nursery, except that I got a blind and made a bunch of 2" tags, and another bunch of 6" for later and still have enough for 20 times that at least.

Pam I Think Kathy meant your pic in
Pfg
January 30, 2013
12:02 Am Post #9402126 your pic is up-side down :))))) I've had that happen before & Noway to correct after we post them :)

your all welcome to come join us fora seed valentine swap
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1296313/#new

How funny, I see that when it's small, but when I click on it and it gets big, it looks right. Oops! I've taken the last few with my new iPad, and wasn't quite sure which way was up. I guess I'd better pay attention!

LOL....I thought I was the only one who saw that...guess I was til I mentioned it..... I enlarged to see what was growing and it looked a bit odd to say the least!!! Just joking with ya!!!

Been splitting up things, taking out and dividing between several more pots so they have room to grow. Tried potting some things on as individuals but just a bit smallish yet, maybe next week....Been giving hair cuts also, turn pot over and clip, clip. Will make them branch lower also instead of single stem (ie Dianthus and Asclepias, snaps )usually this happens by the 3 or 4 set of leaves), when they go out this spring they will have had several cuts so should be bushy. Am waiting for the seed trade to arrive (next week) so I can see if there are some new goodies to try....

That's a good tip, I'll have to try it. What about Campanula? I have some White Clips and some purple I haven't started yet.

I'll give most of them haircuts if and when they are big enough. Some such as daisies and Verbascum don't get hair cuts.....Platys and campanulas would also be great, remember not to count the first set of leave as true leaves cuz they aren't, they will eventually fall off. That's why I wait til they have two or more TRUE leaves before haircuts happen.
I even root prune too. Those I was working on earlier today got half their roots trimmed, much easier to get into plug style trays. When they get transplanted into the trays I cover again for a day or two if I think they need the extra TLC.

Campanulas got haircuts...


Edited to say. Oops! Forgot DG doesn't like vertical photos!

This message was edited Feb 1, 2013 11:04 AM