Here goes... Pretreatment: Starting the first seeds for 2013

I'm not around as consistently as you are, need more remote control... But vermiculite as the top layer would help, I think, at least for the stage after the radicals show but before they're actually rooted in the soil. I lose too many then.

Would you believe, Amazon has it, and DH recently got a Prime card. It's Hoffman's 16002, $12 for 8 quarts. Some reviews thought it was perfect, some thought it was too fine. Haven't I read that fine is better? Is that right?

Jonna Sudenious uses very coarse vermiculite for seed starting (winter sowing). Like coarse or medium coarse myself since I think even very small seeds can push it aside. I mainly sprinkle it on top of seeds that only need to be thinly covered.

BTW, if your mix is already too wet, I think you need the coarsest additions you can find, to improve drainage and aeration.

Vermiculite holds more water than almost anything. Wouldn't coarse Perlite or grit (crushed rock) give you better drainage and aeration than vermiculite?

I'm a big fan of screened bark nuggets or even bark shreds. They hold less water than vermiculite and more than Perlite or grit. They open up the mix so excess water will flow out and air c an flow in.

I'm just say'in, this is the method I have used for more than 18 years, e-gads, it's been that long.....oh my!!!! I usually do use the medium or coarse grade tho as I dont usually find the fine grade.

I do use peralite in my peat moss. I make my own soil every year, starting with a fresh 3c. ft. bale of peat. Usually have to break off chunks (cuz it frozen), into a 3-5 gallon tub with lid, break it up so no lumps remain and is fine. Then I add peralite til I think it looks right, (great recipe huh?). I have learned just to use the vermiculite on top, don't think I've ever added more than 1/8-1/4" as a topping over the seeds. I must have grown more than 10,000 seedlings by now..... My garden club loves it when I bring in flats of goodies for the annual sale, ( but they sure were disappointed last spring when I only brought a couple of plants.. didn't have my stand up).

And Pam, if you haven't already bought that, look a bit more. The bag of fine that I got was $5.50 ish for an 8 quart bag of fine (which is usually higher in price). Seems like H.D. and Walmart sell med. or coarse for about $3-4 for the same size. And truely any size of vermiculite is great.....

The nice thing about the vermiculite topping is that it allows room for air circulation at the top of the pot.

So Rick...only growing veggies this year? Loved your comments about the indoor crops you're growing.....lol.

And I spray my seedlings in the morning when I turn on the lights and again 14-16 hrs later, just before I shut them off.

Update: Newly sprouted, Campanula latifolia Alba, Aquilegia vulgaris Winkey Dbl Rose/White, Lobelia cardinalis, Platycodon grandiflorus Dbl. White. (so Pam, all you sent had germinated (Platys). And Pam, I'll have plenty of the Penstemon p., the count is up to 25 and more in the pot yet....

Pix 1,2 and 3 are still under lids yet.
Pix 4 are those I've moved to open air.

You Must have lots of pots to have to repot each of those How do you divide each of them ??
I Hope to plant a few more today .
calling for a few snow flakes later today but mostly dipping to the low teens this weekend.
still watching & Learning ty for sharing :)

Yup, each will go into seperate pots. Depends on what the plant is and how many of the same type of seedling.. I like it when I can put them in trays of 48, 64, 102, etc..Hope I got those numbers right...lol. I get the trays from a local nursery (recycle bin). These are the trays they get plants from their suppliers to pot on for a few months. They either pop them into a larger pot or maybe a planter with multiple plants and then charge you $40-100. You know the ones you ooooh and aaaahhh over. Atleast thats how I do it.... Sometimes I seed directly into these trays, ie Lobularia (Sweet Alyssum) and such. Pix #3 shows one of the tray with four insert, so it easy to put just one type of plant in the row.

OOOOpps, didn't know 2 pix were the same, but you get the idea....and these pix are from several years ago.

For sure, what works well needs no fixing! And starting 10,000 seedlings is great experience. I don't think I've killed that many YET.


>> I have learned just to use the vermiculite on top, don't think I've ever added more than 1/8-1/4" as a topping over the seeds.

I do something similar indoors with tiny seeds - maybe 1/16" to 1/8" of v ermiculite to cover. Sometimes I'll do that outdoors with fussy seeds in a clayey bed, to avoid crusting. Then I fill a 2 liter bottle with coarse vermiculite so I can pour it accurately along a ahallow row, or shake out little "dots" of vermiculite.

>> only growing veggies this year?
It depends on what I find time to start. I WANT petunias, violas, Lobelias, some Salvias, plus some random annuals, but have on ly found time to clean up my lighted shelf.

I have to figure out what to do with an indoor Salvia I neglected to put outside. It got covered with some small insect that makes fine webs. Insecticidal soap knocks them back for 3-5 weeks, but they return.

Huh! I thought I posted this afternoon, but it's not here now!

That's some operation you have there, Kathy. Filling up the prairie, indeed! It's already spectacular in the pics you post, can't wait to see the new area when it gets going.

My scope is much smaller. The most I have of any one plant is 12. This is mainly because I'm still experimenting a lot, waiting to see what I fall in love with, and also what loves my conditions. I figure I can always increase by dividing if I want more later. And as things have grown over the last few years, my garden is filling in. I do have new areas every year, but none are all that huge, and I get more specific about how to fill them.

I've been searching around for vermiculite on the web, but want to make one trip to HD in my neighborhood just in case they have it before I order anything. I won't get the fine unless that's really all there is.

>> see ... what loves my conditions

I found a few things that can withstand my soil, slugs and care by spreading several kinds of "seed mixes" and identifying the survivors.
- Siberian Wildflower,
- Alyssum and
- Sweet William

I think those mixes include a lot of varieties that are not fussy, to maximize people's chances of success.

Makes sense to me...

HD on line says no vermiculite in the city stores, so I ordered a 12 qt bag, $6 plus $6.99 from Greenhouse Megastore. While I was at it I got some cell inserts and tags too

LOL.., now pam...would you like me to tell you about how to get more inexpensive tags?? lol...

Corey....do you use crushed egg shells or copper pennies for your garden friends?

Still waiting for my Cephalarias to sprout, from what I 've read tho 21-60 days....

Oh Kathy Put me down for a few of the Cephalarias seeds or maybe seedling come spring if you have extra :)))

Pam I just paid $4.79 for a 3.5qt bag so you just may have gotten the best deal .
well been a long day so GN all .

OK Kathy, what's your tag secret? I cut up Yogurt containers, but I'm out and we don't have one anywhere near empty. I've also read about the Venetian blind slats, but don't have one that needs re-cycling, seems silly to buy one for what I need right now...

Deejay, the plant I sent you is actually Cephalaria. I thought it was an over-size white Knautia, but Kathy ID'd it correctly. So you don't need seeds.

What I'm getting is coarse vermiculite. Tracking info says it will get here by Tuesday.

So far everything is doing well except the Penstemon palmerii. It sprouts in the baggy, but doesn't come up once it's planted. I was setting the sprouted seeds about 1/8 -1/4" deep into the mix. The last time a couple of days ago, I just pressed them lightly into the top of the soil and sprinkled a little coir around them, then misted. Nothing yet...

Pam Cool thank you I got so many plants last summer & I Just had to put them in the ground but I do not remember all that I Received . well my other Mini GH was just delivered by fedx so off to play :)

I'm getting so antsy for spring :) snow moving in this weekend . ya all stay warm back later

Penstemon grew REALLY slowly for me. I would have set them with the cotyledons on or above the surface (just cover the root thinly. Then expect them to grow REALLY slowly. I guess not every P. species is a slow-poke, but mine were.

>> Corey...do you use crushed egg shells or copper pennies for your garden friends?

No, just beer and bait. I make lots of shallow beer saucers from bottoms of soda bottles.

I also discovered that some years are much worse than other years for slugs.

So far I have 26 seedlings of Penstemon palmerii. See new pix below.

As of today is day 21 for the Cephalaria (have gigantia and alpina), book says 21-60 days. I'm hoping any day now!!!

Lucky you, I have one...

The descriptions I've been able to find for the Cephalarias seem very similar. They say yellow flowers for both, mine are very pale, almost white. Both are tall, too, mine is easily 6.' Do you know what the difference is? Mine could be either one.

Inexpensive tags?

My tags are from the Blinds I Found at the Habitat retail store for $1. a blind bought 3 of them I Have over couple 100's tags + & I find them at yard sales . I Have sprouts Shrimp Plant & Mimosa tree . Now just to keep them growing :))

off to do some painting .

Cool...

Yup venetian blinds are the answer..To me tho Walmart is closer, and they are only $3-4.....yup I get hundreds and hundreds....Make sure to use a Sharpie Permanent Marker tho, add I find even this fades after two to three years. This last summer I also added Dynamo Personal Label Maker in clear on the other side. Wanna see how long each lasts...

Update, new sprouts: Delphinium White Galahad, Aquilegia Maggie Mae, Delphinium Blue/Dark Bee, Aquilegia vulgaris stelata Christa Barlow, Dianthus armurensis Siberian Blues, and Verbascum chaixii.

Getting ready to start a bunch more this afternoon...

Cephalaria alpina: Pale yellow, 11/4" wide, up to 6ft^x 24"> z4-8
Cephalaria gigantea: Primrose yellow, 11/2"-21/2" wide, up to 8ft^x24">, z3-7, (darker yellow than alpina)
I have grown both of these many years ago and couldn't remember so I looked them up..and yes, one if definately more on the deeper yellow side....C.g....But it seems to me they were wider that the 24" listed. Don't remember if they bloomed 1st or 2nd year...

kathy do you have shelves In every room of your house ???

Mine must be the C alpina, it looked white to me. The first year it bloomed at Knautia height... Too funny, the second year I went into shock, especially since I was away for several weeks in the summer and came back to these stalks on steroids.

Hi, everyone! I am new at starting seeds under lights, and I have some lobelia seeds: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/379/

I read somewhere that they need to be started early. They are tiny seeds--look like dust! How do I do this?

No, silly..only one stand so far, and only one shelf also. Stand is 31" wide x 60" long x 78" high. It has 4 shelves and I can also make another shelf on the floor. I need to replace a few of the light units as they have gone caphooee over the years, only $10 at H.D. I will be able to place 71/2 trays on each shelf, that's if I stay with the typical 11"x22" tray and one short or 1/2 tray; when using 21/2" pots, that's 240 plants per shelf, after they have been potted on, more if I use smaller trays, ie 32's or 72's...you get the idea?

Ky...welcome...I just sprouted some L. cardinalis, mine sprouted in about 8 days under flourecent lights. Do you have them covered to keep the moisture in?

I haven't sowed them yet, but I will do that--do they need bottom heat? Nice set-up you've got there!

Room temp should be fine, 65-70. Press the seeds into the top of seed starting mix. Tiny seeds shouldn't be covered, or barely covered, they need light to germinate.

I think you have the compact, small flowered ones, Lobelia erinus, am I right? They are great cascading from containers or as edgers. If so, I would use cell-packs, usually there are 6 to a container, sometimes 9. Sprinkle a few seeds in each cell, and cover with Saran, or a humidity dome, whatever you have to keep the surface from drying out. Once they sprout you can gradually add fresh air, either by punching holes in the Saran or propping up the humidity dome. After a day or 2 you can remove the cover. Then just let them grow as a cluster and plant them outside that way as well when the time comes. Look up this thread, Kathy has posted details too.

If your Lobelia is a larger type, such as Cardinalis or Siphilitica, then I would cluster sow in a 4" pot. When they get big enough to handle they can be separated into separate pots.

Hope this helps,

Pam

Teehee. I got a label maker...

Lots of possibilities! Lol

I love my label maker. If it's a ptouch, check out buying tape online, it's cheaper.
I'm excited, I had a dozen golden columbine germinate! I haven't had any luck with columbine up 'til now.
I'm going to put some morning glories in tonight, I've opted for peat pellets. They did well in them last year, the trouble started once I put them in the ground. Not sure if it was bugs or birds that ate the seedlings. This year I'm going to transplant them to 4" pots and keep them in the greenhouse until they get a little larger.

Mine do Much better if i just put them right in the dirt where i want them. I would like to find a Yellow MG & A Pink MG also the MOONVINES Or are these the Moonvines ?? also a Red One .
anyone have any to share with me ???

Well we have about 2" of snow this morning 1st real snow for the winter they say possible 4" today
& So I won't complain for i have no where to go & I have lots of Rocks & Pots To Paint :))

so you all have a great day hope to get back in later .

Maybe I'll take some of the MG's and stick them in the ground, I'm just worried they'll get consumed like they did last year. I probably have enough seed to do both in ground and in peat pellets. I'm looking at the end of February as my last frost date. We probably have already had our last frost though, it was in the 70's yesterday.

Dome..sorry seeds not shipped yet, been under the weather..will get to it tho....

No rush, I have more than enough to do and not all that much energy to do it.
Getting older . . . I guess it's better than the alternative.

Feel better, Kathy!

It turns out that Penstemon palmerii did not want to be even 1/8" buried after sprouting in the paper towel. The last few I just pressed into the top of the mix, and they're coming up. Whew!

The vermiculite comes tomorrow, I'll be using that from then on. But tonight, I'll be taking all my little Platys and giving them more room. I'm particularly excited about P Permutter, a soft, silvery pink. I saw pics from someone's garden and had to have them. I tracked the seeds down and now they're up :-))). I think they don't grow all that fast, but I'll give them 2" pots until I run out. Then I have some 6-packs with slightly larger cells for the rest, that will have to do for a while.

Ya know Pam....you could probably get away with the 6 packs for several months.....It' doesn't look like they are going to be a fast grower, but then again those in the campanula family are slow too...Not sur e if in the same family but suspect they might be....

I'm not sure ....I think I feel better...lol. How's that for an answer...I just haven't done much the past few days but get caught up on sleep...lol..

Don't think I'll be doing any potting on yet for a few weeks, it will help to keep cost down since the more I pot on the more lights that will go on til the end of April. Those that I start on first will be those that can handle the outside cool areas (under plastic and remay of course....( tho they will be inside for serveral weeks to a month before going out...)

Last year I had some in 6-packs until spring but I started much later. Funny, I mixed up labels on one pack and planted them In the ground thinking they were annuals. Much to my surprise, tho they stayed small, they flowered. The ones in gallon pots didn't. I'm hoping by giving them a better start they'll get a little more height. Still for now they're in the larger 6-packs as I was running out of potting mix. As soon as they fill the cells I'll move at least some of them up.

I do the same thing you do, start shoving the plants outside as soon as possible, plastic, Reemay, whatever. Not the Platys, I'll keep them warm as long as I can, but it's amazing how much cold so many other plants can take. That doesn't start until the beginning of April when we open the house. That's the first cooling off, as we keep the house at 60 when we're not there during the week. I have heat mats for germination and the really tender seedlings, but the rest actually do well away from the city heat, not so much tall spindly growth. Then as I start the annuals, the tougher plants get booted out to make room. Most perennials, some herbs and snaps are first to go.... Months away still...

Glad you're feeling better!

In connection to tiny and dust-like seeds, I use fine moistened peatmoss in a container. I pour the seeds on to the peatmoss and blend it in lightly. I did this with my delosperma (iceplant) seeds. They are like dust. I covered the container and the seeds sprouted in 5 days. Once they sprout, I scoop the peatmoss up and transfer it with the sprouts to potting soil to continue to grow. At this point, I don't try to seperate them. I wait until a bit larger.

Fine seeds have to be surface sown, the reason everyone thinks they need light. Tiny seeds could never reach the surface if covered.

Below is the photo of Delosperma in peat moss after they were transferred.

This message was edited Jan 22, 2013 9:33 PM

I forgot to add that I have used the Deno method for all seeds for 4 years. It is the only way to go. I use it for my Daylily seeds and works great. Got 182 seedlings sprouted last year. This year I just potted more up. I am running out of garden room. Some things just works too good. LOL!

From sprouting, to hardening off, to planting in nursery bed. 2012