radish failure

NC yes, pines and oaks thrive- our last year was truly horrendous tho- we also have good iron-but I planted in a raised bed-heavy compost and garden topsoil with mushroom compost. And while phosphorous is essential, so is iron in many plants. You guys have amended controlled beds, but iron is still important and it was just a passing thought to try...I know I will when I get home mid July once again

I agree, iron is a necessity. I just wanted to point out it has no specific effect on root production by itself. That's all.

Being in Texas I would imagine your soil may be more alkaline than other areas. If so that would certainly make iron unavailable to the plants, even if you had ample iron in the soil. Applying a chelated iron product would help that temporarily though.

Rick, I think you'll be safe adding a few seed pods to a salad, or a stir-fry. Just don't overdo it like I did, practically grazing on them! :>)

Shoe

There are 4 different bands of soils- vegetation -here actually, everything from alkaline to neutral and some acid, where I am, but I don't get to do much experimenting these days- this company believes in 14 hr days stuck in no a/c dustbowls with no food access, and doesn't allow us to idle nor anything much else(showers nor facilities). I am told a bunch of our drivers are getting food poisoning, and heat strokes, but being raised in the Tx, Ok, NM deserts And on a grade A dairy ranch, I learned skills many of the kids don't have. My father and grandfather taught me to read the land, and I have had friends whose dads were involved in oil companies, and I would listen to what the core samples showed- since that also is the land and affects plants. Then I've also worked in commercial nursery and given care of a barn- we pitched in during every phase and got to watch how each plant grows best with it's own mix of fertilizers and regimens. I am simply too worn down to continue that intense a schedule since I can't stand back, chuckl. I don't think a treatment of liquid iron for the season will fix the radishes this season- but I have been wondering what last summer conditions leached or irradiated in the soils, or what was changed so drastically. The wildflowers are showing signs of preparing for long dormancies. There is a band of iron deficient land of all places arround the red river region from Wichita Falls, Tx to Ardmore, Ok- and I HAVE watched the liquid iron treatments in Ardmore make a drastic improvement in plants there, side by side

Good grief, kittriana, it sounds like miserable conditions to be working in. I hope at least your drivers have AC in their trucks, or whatever they are driving.

" I don't think a treatment of liquid iron for the season will fix the radishes this season- "

No, my suggestion of liquid iron wasn't in relation to fixing the radishes. As stated further up those won't bulb up in heat anyway.

Shoe (running from the heat here today, trying to sneak in a half day off!) :>)

The laws for those who drive 18 wheelers have gotten extremely out of hand. Cellphones use in any form carries a fine of $2500. To the driver and $11000. to the companies- that includes getting tickets for being seen touching them. The law is on the books for cars, but you guys are at home and vocal enuff to protest those, so they want a reduced fine to make it thru the courts. Idling in many states is against the law now- NY-Dallas, California is in a world of their own- if a running motor can't have it's exhaust run thru the catalytic converters it's illegal- so for those trux that are equipped with APU's they can't use em( those are htg/cooling t'stats that run off a separate motor. Shake head, Calif has set a new standard for EPA emissions reduction now- tires have to have a special Calif rating to enter the state. Other states like Ohio are following suit. If you have a pet you are allowed to idle, but not for yourself. For the pet. The northeast corner of the USA is extremely non truck friendly- we have to pull over to take our 10 hr breaks and there is NOWHERE literally we are not illegal to be- they will come tow you with you in bed, it isn't the lot lizards on the lot beating the doors all nite- it's the truckstops telling you to get off their property and go park on the streets where they swear there is plenty of space-NOT. This is NOT a profession to treat you as a human being. I did say I know a few trix, since i' ve been out here so long, but they also try to take my job for cheaper dumber boys to burn out. Humph, I am not even mad at the moment and I sound like I am ranting, down in Texas we treat our field hands better than the truk drivers are getting these years...

I could have iron and/or phosphorous deficiency: no soil tests yet. I have only had soil for a few soils. I'm making it a few wheelbarrows at a time, so every bed is wildly different.

I THINK I have avoided nutrient imbalance and lock-outs by keeping the soil lean and never risking over-fertilization.
But each bed could have wildly different pH and that could interfere with uptake of this or that.
And I could have severe shortages of something - or something different in each bed.
But as long as nothing LOOKS severely malnourished or wierd, I'm putting my budget into generic amendments, not one soil test for each tiny raised bed.

Here I think that my huge exess of clay does help me some. Whatever minerals ARE around or get added, are going to be very well retained, buffered, and released gradually by the clay I curse. Compost brings in "a little of everything" in reasonable balance, and I do add as much compost as I can afford. I'll be remedying "zero OM" for years.

I fairly frequently add very small small amounts of balanced generic fertilizer (last time, "16-16-16" was cheapest for the concentration). I would not mess around with real micronutrients until I had a good soil test. (Iron, Mg and Sulfer woujld be the first semi-micros I would get fancy with if something looked sickly. Like, chelated iron, MgSO4, dolomite lime.)

However, testing pH is always worth it until you know your region. I should.

NE was easy: it's always acid or very acid. Add a few bags of dolomite lime every year or two. You can't CARRY and spread enoguh lime to make it TOO basic. Even if you do manage to beat the acidity above pH 7.5 or 8 ONE year, expect the rain to knock pH back down to "acid" in a year or two.

My first goal (starting with my pretty pure clay suitable for bricks or pottery, zero perk, zero areation) is to get enough organics and amendements into each bed to create any drainage, aeration, and eventually enough 'structure') to allow any growth.

Then give them a few years in annuals so roots, worms, and more compost can keep improving it. I turn 1-2 times per year for the first few years, adding as much compost as I can buy or make.

The oldest bed is good enoguh now that I mostly only scratch compost into the top 6". I try to improve each bed enough that, when I dig 8-12" down, it has not reverted to airless pudding-clay.

And I rely on raised beds with 8-12-16" walls, plus slope (grade) and drainage trenchs to keep them draining and aerated while the soil still has little or no real structure or air pockets and channels.

Before I invested in in soil tests, I would first get all the soil to the point of at least "poor" structure and some organic matter and roota. Then I will wheel enough soil from one bed to another to average them out. Then another year to mix and mellow, THEN maybe the price of just one test would be worth it to me.

I'm cheap and would rather buy 50 more bags of manure/compost mix than pay $60 for a soil test when I know the most desperate need is for organic matter and drainage/aeration. Meanwhile, I am carefull to fertilize very minimally, trying to go from "almost none" to "almost enough" of most things. I would rather under-fertilize then over-fertilze. Hunger and slow growth is better than toxicity and death.

So far the only times I see conspicuous yellowing or ill helath is in a very new, raw bed, with no life in it. Even that is rare now, since I back-innoculate from more established beds into raw ones, and am careful to give the most compost to the crummiest neediest beds.

I don't worry much about nutrition until I'm sure the roots won't drown, and there's ednoguh OM for SOME soil life to establish itself.

I'm surprised at the $60 cost for the soil test. Soil tests here through the county extension office are $7 each. Recently they started giving the first one for free. The test reports are specific to what goes in the area (veggies, flowers, grass, etc.) and also state how much of what needs to get added to correct the soil. So no waste or want on what gets added in. Less money spent on unnecessary additives.

We have slightly acid soil and highly alkaline water (8-9 ph). The more we water the more the soil ph goes alkaline. Soil amendments also affects the soil ph. We occasionally use cotton boll compost. It also has a high ph (7-8). Between the water and the cotton boll we end up putting sulfur on every year to lower the soil ph.

Adding iron here is one of the recommendations to deal with chlorosis in trees. In this area it's a short lived fix and only addresses the symptoms and not the issue. The real issue is the ph is so far off that it locks up the nutrients (including iron) in the soil. When we started using sulfur instead of iron it changed the fixed the issue. We were also putting on fewer applications of the sulfur then what we had to use on the iron.

I understand that you can tell a lot about the soil by what weeds grown in it. That might also be a way to tell what is going on with the soil.

>> The real issue is the ph is so far off that it locks up the nutrients (including iron) in the soil.

Before I amend my soil, its so hard that only one kind of weed does well, and I don't know it's name.
A little better, and dandilions manage.
Much better, and horsetails thrive.

I think that, by the time my raised beds are doing at all well, the original clay is no more than 25% of the mix ... maybe less. So each bed is very different. And thney are tiny and many ... hmm, up to around 9. Maybe 12 if you count the shady spots with roots where I amended much too little, and almost nothing grolws.

I haven't fully researched local soil test services, but I have more used car lots than trees near me, and zero farms. But I might get lucky.

We have raised beds on a hill. The hill soil is a combination of midwest clay and sandstone outcrop. The soil in the boxes was either hauled in stripped top soil or compost of some kind.

Looks like Wash U closed their soil testing facility. They recommend either local or U of Mass.

U of Mass is $10 for the basic test. http://www.umass.edu/soiltest/pdf/Routine%20Soil%20Analysis%20-%20Use%20This%20Form%20for%20Turf,%20Landscaping,%20and%20Home%20Gardening.pdf

Thanks! I was born on tghe South Shore of Bahhstin and would not feel guilty to take advantage.

I got the PDF form and I'm saving the link. I think I wouldf splurge for the toltal organikc estimate. I think my best soil has almost enoguh OM, but very possibly I'm deluding myself.

Thanks everyone.

I am going to try again for a Fall crop. Any idea when I should plant seeds?

I make Kimchi too and I also make something called Lefet - pickled turnips with beets. I think it is Lebanese. Very easy.

kittriana, I second that! And those drivers ship the veggies under crazy conditions like waiting for hours to get loaded hot freight with the deadline to deliver and crazy car drivers trying to break in front of a truck to sue the company. CRAZY! Some farms are just outrageous in how they operate, from the pickers to the loaders. Rarely you'll find a decent farm operation out there. Sorry about the OT.

This message was edited Jul 23, 2012 9:24 PM

I was just home, tho the radishes did not make but one radish, still they have been blooming like krazy, and being neglected, those pods have already reseeded and were at their first leaves, so was the fern leaf dill reseeded and coming up, and the bronze leaf mustard was in flower and 2 ' tall from the seeds of the first plants this spring. The onion chives are struggling tho a few are trying to survive from seeds scattered earlier. Yup, Florida- I can tell horror stories of hauling fruits up from below Tampa in the late 80's- it really has improved,-tho I say that with reservations, chuckl.

Isnt this the wrong time of yr to grow radishes in TX?

I wasn't home, they are growing themselves, I figured I'd just see if the root makes, or I get a ton more seedpods, my elephant garlic is growing strong too, and - hehehe- I saw where a tunnel had bumped up against the bricks and wire and someone couldn't burrow into that garden, chuckle. Nothing in this garden appears to be growing the way you would expect, but these are volunteers, and welcome to try to grow, I have to go on a search for sunflowers I would like to grow for next season so the new veggies can have a break-

Too hot for them to bulb. Garlic is different. I always add phosphorus for root crops. But then I stink at growing radishes lol but I didnt realize until recently that there are different types. Some have a long DTM. If I stick to the ones that take a month or less to mature Im good. Then I gow them in a little container so I know the soil is soft.

1Lisac --

Is there a temperature guide for growing radishes and other cold weather crops?

Try www.growinganything.com and see if it brings up the chart I saw about what veggies at what temps- I've seen better ones, but don't remember where

Yeah, it works- use the left column to goto planting times...

A temp guide probably won't be as helpful as a timing guide. You live in a cold area so you need to figure out when to plant in your area. Radishes germinate at about 50*.