Pugh Bear's Propagation Thread

Some on thread and some off thread. That's the story of my life. Catch me if you can....

I read something on the Cubits Co-Op thread about Walters who is a wholesaler. Along with the co-op fee, a royalty fee was included with each plant. The amount was not disclosed but it stated it was included in the total price from the supplier, Walters. I would believe it would go to the patent holder.

I have checked my plants that I will attempt to root and they are not patented. Some of my Hardy Hibiscus are and I will just let them do their own thing.

I did major cooking today. Short ribs, stir fry, rice, fallow grain and sausage & gravy. Took about 4 hours to cook and clean. Now the freezer is full of items for Vern to eat. I put some in the fridge for tomorrow and then divided the rest into small containers for him and freeze.

I will be doing major gardening tomorrow morning from about 6 to 10am. I have to go into the greenbelt because from my back landscape I can see some great flowers are going to seed. I need to be there just in case the landscapers do their job and dead head them.

My daughter-in-law has my camera so I am without a camera this week. Probably next also. But I will live.

Have to go to bed. Have a great morning and day tomorrow and I will check into later in the afternoon.

I am required by the State of New Jersey to be a Certified Nursery only because of the strict laws they have regarding shipping plants to West of the Mississippi River. That is the only license I have for plants.
Many people ship plants from East to West without a problem, but when someone pays for a plant they want to get it and many times if the boxes are marked plants, the inspectors get them and they just destroy them without sending them on to the buyer. It has to do with certain insects being transferred from one state to another. California is the big problem. They have very strict regulations on shipping so I am told by the State of NJ.
So, in order to guarantee my customers get what they pay for, I purchased my nursery certification license.
I never gave a thought to propagating a patented plant because it is much to complicated and this is just a hobby/business for me.

I do get upset when I do not know a plant is patented because I would have no reason to purchase it unless it was just for the house, and the house is full so that is not an option at this time. I hope this answers your concerns. JB

Sharon, I see no reason if you just wanted to play around with some cuttings from a patented plant that you purchased it would not be acceptable, just do not post it on this thread of any other.

The Plant police do not go door to door. But we are monitored here for sure.

I have an old red mandevilla that is patented and it is getting old and scraggly. I was thinking of taking cuttings and trying to root them so I would not be without this beauty. It blooms all year round and I adore it. I have no idea where I got it or when, so my choice is to just try and reproduce it myself for myself. If that is wrong, so shoot me. JB

You know, there are lots of reasons the govt is interested in the shipment of plant materials, including diseases, invasive species, etc. A wonderful ornamental plant here may be on a state's invasive/noxious weed list!

JB - if your old old hibiscus is old old it's possible the patent is expired. I for one will not send the patent police to call. :P

A.

Amanda, Honey, MANDEVILLA not HIBISCUS......MUCHO difference my love.

You are correct, but in the case of NJ, I was told there are some beetles/insects that lay eggs and live in the soil in some states and that is why we remove the soil to prevent sending them along.

Off to town.

LOL, I might. : b

Anyone on here use Epsom Salts on their gardenias or other plants for that matter? JB

Jb I use epsom salts all the time. it is a wonderful source of magnesium and it sure brings out the green. I know a lady who sells at the farmers market a couple of hours away and she just puts a tablespoon into her containers and then waters. I have always diluted it, or mixed it with beer and ammonia like the brug food recipe. That is some awesome stuff. Stinks tho.

You cannot asexually propagate patented plants, but if they set seed, then it is a whole different ball game. I really buy very few patented plants. I like the old heirloom stuff better. Plus I have seen a major difference here in the pollinators. We didn't have near the bees and butterflies this summer that are usually here.

Gotta get moving, I will check in later.
Sea ya!

Linda, a tablespoon in how much water???????

Jb, I would use a tbsp in a gallon of water. sometimes there is a formula on the epsom salt carton too. It works wonders for boston ferns.

Thank you Linda. You are such a sweetie.

I just talked to Dave. He is doing very well but overdid it over the weekend and had a few bad hours recovering. He will hopefully be back here by Wednesday. JB

JB - I have promised people cuttings of both my yellow hibiscus and yellow mandevilla. Sorry - hibiscus on the brain.

I used epsom salts last season to "treat" some calendula that were spotting/showing signs of what I thought might be chlorosis (?). I sprinkled it on the ground, can't remember in what proportion but I found a lot of info on it on the web. Maybe I should have dissolved it in water . . . the calendula still have chlorosis.

A.

A. I use the liquid iron for that and it works miracles.If you want the name I get let me know and I will give it to you. You can get it on the internet. It comes in a bottle and lasts forever.
I bet the yellow mandevilla is pretty. They are such a nice plant to keep but mealy bugs love them too.
OFF TOPIC.....STOP

I think I will mix it like Linda said. I looked on the carton and it says use it for soaking or a laxative..............hmmmmmmmm no comment on this thread about that.

If I ever move it will be to the outer banks. Before my husband died we had planned to move everything to the houseboat and just go up and down the inter coastal waterway
and stay out of the cold and the intense heat. No more living on the mainland. We would have a terrible time this year if we were doing that. There is no escape. I miss Wrightsville Beach and Wilmington. Best years of my life were there. We must talk NC sometime. I have some nice friends down there.

Good afternoon:
ok sooty mold:
sooty mold is a byproduct of insects that have a piercing sucking mouth (suck the juice out of the leaf ...think straw) the only way to get rid of it is to either wash it off or it will go away with lots and lots and lots and lots of rain. I would try using some dawn dish deturgent on it as it has cleaned up a few plants for me long ago.

mealy bugs - jb try some dawn dish detergent on them if that fails the oils may work.

Phlox: if you cut the phlox remember to stick your cuttings as they do root from even the deadest of looking stems. we used to get our cuttings in, in january and sell them in the spring 3 months later. of course they were much bigger cuttings than the ones I recieved from guatamalla. and the phlox I got in are looking great rooted nicely dark green. i am looking forward to a nice crop next spring. unfortunately i did loose most of my candy stripe and scarlet flame.

epsiom salts are great for greening up plants and clorosis. i would worry about putting the salt directly on the soil as it is a salt and root burn does come from excess salt build up around the roots (fertizer dries to become salts).

Linda is correct about placing the CC under a big tree. most plants like the area under a nice shade tree. for us unfortunately we will loose a lot of tree's next year as the heat has been record breaking and is on course for a 50 year days above 100 record. we have been running like 108 and add in heat index... its hot.
I am afraid i cooked my daylily bed on the south side of the house. i am running the soaker now but it might be too lake for some of them.

I am ok doing a lot better I just have to build up my stamenae (spelling???). I will try to get on later to build the new thread. It sounds like the majority of everyone feels my into with the request for questions is sufficient to warrant anyone feeling like they are butting in. i will sleep on it and make my decission when I build the new thread. Thank you for all your input and I agree with those who stated that we do address questions rapidly and are very good with the direction to look if we dont know the answer. I just don't know...

Huggs to everyone
Dave

epsom salts are used as a tonic as a laxative. I had a neighbor who was stealing water from our hose so I just gave him a little bit in the hose... they quit stealing water... he he... it only takes a tablespoon or is it teaspoon

Thanks for the tip, Dave. Good to see you back.

JB - let's do talk NC. :)

Off to dig up my epsom salts for GARDENING. Ahem.

A.

OFF TOPIC.

OH MY GOD....................HE HAS RETURNED..................JUST AS BAD AS EVER.


HELLO CUTIE PUGHBEAR. So glad you are back and better. We missed you big time.
I was on ATP and the people who have gardenias in their yard just throw the epson Salts on the ground under the plants, but they were quick to say, they have a lot of rain. I questioned putting it on the ground because my friend used to throw regular water softner salt on the ground so kill weeds. You mentioned that and I am glad to hear you say that it does harm roots. Thanks, I thought there was a reason I was reluctant to just throw it in the pot, then water........

JB, I go thru about a gallon of ES every season. I use it on almost everything. Haven't tried it on Gardenias tho 'cause just following what you tell me for once.

My mom used to put a half a cup on each rose every spring and also when planting new ones. She would scratch it in and then water good. I do that and also on tomatoes when I plant them. Either the same as my mom's method or put it in the water. (not that much on the tomatoes.) That is how I do my house and container plants. dissolve it in the water. one tbs. per gallon. Or whatever. Same with my peroxide. A glug or two. :0) A little glug 'll do ya.

So good to see you back Dave. How is the new unit doing? Do you think it is going to be better? Jen

Jen, that sounds like a plan. I want to try it on the jasminum too if it works on all plants. I can give them just so much iron and I want them to keep their color when I bring them inside. I sold two of the 2 yr. old ones and now I only have 11 left to go to the Market. Rather sell them separately , I can charge more ....he he. I do want to try the ES for sure. I just want to be sure not to hurt any or them. On ATP they one woman uses it all the time on her outside gardenias, but nothing on potted plants yet except you guys now saying you use it. Linda uses hers outside too I think. See, the soil in the South is different than ours here and I just want to be sure it will work on good soil in potted plants. Pondering.

Nancy ~ Yes, I would LOVE some of that coleus. They are so easy to root the cuttings as well, so if you can do that, it would be very nice. They will root easily in water or you can use the rooting hormone.

As far as yarrow is concerned. There are many, many varieties. I think my the "apricot" yarrow lies down when it got too much water, as they do not require much. Some of the other varieties, however, are quite rigid and would stand tall until they are cut down.

Dave, I am so glad to see you back online. I am praying for a really good recovery for you. I am afraid I am losing a couple of trees too Dave. 1 is dying a little at a time. It is a loquat ( Eyrobotra Japonica- japanese plum) and it looks like a camellia with dieback. I had one do this before and I couldn't ever stop it.
The other is a huge bottlebrush that was awesome for about 15 years. The snow's took a bad toll in it this past year and now the heat is really wreaking havoc.
Oh and the epsom salt trick you pulled on the thieving neighbor sounds like something that happened to one of my college room mates who stole everyone's food. LOL No, I wasn't there at the time, I just heard lots of stories about it.

JB, I sure have got you fooled! LOL nothing sweet about me. Ask my son. LOL We don't have soil. I have beach sand. I could not figure out for the life of me why my Sister hates to garden. ( I wasn't completely sure we were related for a while), then I tried to plant some things in her california yard. It was torturous.
I have spent tons of money on things to improve my soil and even resorted to using some raised beds. The problem is that the sand is so coarse that ever amendment I have used just gets sifted through to the bottom. The good thing about it is that I don't have drainage issues. It can rain for weeks and there won't be a puddle in my yard anywhere.

Evelyn, something that would be pretty for your dark side garden would be persian shields Aka Strobilanthes Deryianus. they are a gorgeous purple with silver streaks.They are also pretty tough and with a mild winter should be perennial for you.

Jnette, do you water with peroxide too? I use it when starting seeds and rooting things, but I haven't watered with it. I may have to try that.

Gotta run, The guys want seafood tonight.
See Ya
Linda

May I take some of your time and get something off my chest, please.
Many weeks ago I suggested there should be a Forum, not a thread, on both DG and ATP for Tropical HousePlants. Both administrations shot me down with, we have a Tropical Forum and a Houseplant Forum and that is all we need.
Well, today reinforced my thinking that maybe that is not all we need because I went on both Garden Sites and asked the same questions about Epsom Salts. I got some answers and they were all from people who use it on Tropicals and other plants IN THE GROUND....NOT CERTAIN TROPICALS IN POTS.
I had to go back to each group and ask the same question again, can you use it in pots in good potting soil mix and be sure it will not hurt the roots, etc. You see my point is, Tropical Plants in pots used for House plants are a different breed, and any of you who have them know you may use two or three different mediums in the pots depending on the type of tropical plant you have. So, when you ask a question about your House Plant, it is not just a house plant in a pot with regular potting soil, it could be one of several combinations. Actually Epson Salts may harm some plants in certain soils in pots.
Is there someone out there who can relate to what I am saying.
When people use the ES mix , the answers I got were great and informative if you have a garden soil for your particular State or Zone, but that is not the answer I wanted.
If we had a forum for Tropical House Plants I would have had to post my question one time. Do you know I posted the same question six times. I even started a new thread for Gardenias to see if I would get a reply. Well, I wasted half a day trying to find out my answer and I still do not have it yet.
I just wanted to share this little bit of time wasting with you and maybe it will help Dave decide how he wants to handle his propagation thread. Keep it simple. Give it a name that people can relate to and find. Keep it so everyone knows who they are talking to and what they are talking about. I am out of here but I hope you all understand that back when I was moaning and groaning about not having a separate Forum for Tropical House Plants, it was not just for the H of it, it is because it is a time saver and it is the simple way to get answers. Good night all. Hugs. JB

This message was edited Aug 8, 2011 7:43 PM

I guess I will wait until tomorrow and check all six places and if I do not get an answer I will google it.

Please do not think I do not appreciate all your help. I do I really do, but also remember, I do not want to harm my plants and I need more specific information. This has nothing to do with those of you who tried to help me. I love you for it. I wanted to make my point about the Tropical House Plant and how it is different from Tropicals and House Plants. If I am wrong I apologize.

Bed time for this frustrated old lady. Nite, Jen. See you tomorrow.

Gosh Linda, your sand sounds just like mine. Terrible.

Yes, I water everything in containers with peroxide. Except the things that are very obvious that dry out constantly. Like the petunias. I plant so many in a planter box that they get root bound and dry out every day practically. Things like that I don't. But, almost everything else on the decks in containers I do. They love it. Brugs too. Because the brugs have to be watered every day I put peroxide in theirs. Even tho they are heavy feeders and drinkers, I give them a shot of peroxide to go with it. LOL

And absolutely everything in the house. Houseplants are terrible about getting over watered. Peroxide keeps them from rotting. Puts oxygen near the roots. Especially in the winter when we don't have anything else to do but water the plants. Put some peroxide in that water. Also ES every couple months, or each month even. Won't hurt.

We crossposted JB so I had to go read your post. The funny thing is that did you know there is a tropical plant swap? I am sure those are houseplants on DG. Because I joined that swap one time. A very nice bunch of people. And I got in my swap, I think about 8 cuttings from tropical houseplants.
..
The funny thing is, most of the people in the swap are in the South. Been meaning to tell you that for some time but keep forgetting it. Take a look at it. Ask some questions of the people there. Jen

Linda ~ I think that it is a beautiful plant. I would have to bring it inside in the winter though. I don't have any right now. I also like to put them in my color bowls, which serve as window boxes. Previously, my husband built a window box and then it rotted, taking part of the log with it, so now we have two window shelves...one on the north window and the other on the east window.

That is where I arrange color bowls each season. Even if it is hot or cold, there is (almost) always something in bloom. Right now I have coleus, blue salvia, lobelia and celosia in 3 and on the north side there are pink polka dot plants, sweet potato vines, coleus and blue salvia.

I am involved in those swaps. We trade anything considered a plant to be grown/kept indoors. Often those are tropicals, true. The name of the swap is tropicals/houseplants, I think. So whoever set this up initially considers them separate, and I think JB is right.

JB, I'm sorry you're having a hard time getting to the center of the tropical plant world. Doesn't seem like it should be a big deal to set up a separate forum. What if you just started a "tropical plant" thread in the houseplant forum? It could be like Dave's thread only undefined an to ask/answer questions specific to tropicals. You'd have plenty of lurkers and be able to identify an interest group.

Keep us posted.

On a propagation note, I transplanted 2 mock orange cuttings today into separate containers from those that I started several months ago. One cutting has grown a second stem, and I think that one will be viable. The second cutting had small roots along the cutting below the soil and shot up new growth from a node above the soil. The roots were sparse though, with no sign of new growth below the soil. I cut about 1/4" off the bottom of the cutting to just below where the roots started. After I put it in its own separate pot it showed some shock, but later in the afternoon after a good watering and rest in the shade, it stood back up looking good.

I put each of these plants in small clay pots because I am using Miracle Grow potting soil. I am not particularly fond of pre-mixed potting soils as they don't seem to drain well even in this high heat. I hoped that by using the clay pots the soil would dry faster and not tend toward stagnation/rot as I keep these pots in full shade until I feel they are both viable.

I have promised these to a fellow DG member, and I would so love to send her 2 - any thoughts on how to encourage new growth on the 2nd cutting?

Thanks.

A.



This message was edited Aug 8, 2011 8:28 PM

I have been trying to send you pictures of a couple of the Mock Orange at the end of my hoophouse. The Mock Orange is a Syringa which is the Idaho State Flower and grows wild around here. The aroma is wonderful from them. I never thought about taking cuttings. Don't think I would have to worry about patents on them. LOL

For some reason I couldn't attach the pictures.

I was going to say years ago I had a Mexican Orange that had such a wonderful smell. Also the foliage was very pretty. But they are hardy to zone 6 or 7.

Well, if you just get a picture one of these days it will be the wild Mock Orange or Syringa. I had to rewrite this 3 times because of those pictures. LOL

Jen

Thanks for trying Jen.

Someone posted in a trade that she would like to have some Mock Orange, and I did not know what it was so I looked it up.

Lo' and behold - there it was blooming in the yard next door. The nice old lady that owns the house is in a nursing home, and the branches are hanging over our yard, so I thought a couple of clippings couldn't hurt. It has been one of my first efforts at propagating from cuttings, so I am especially interested in having success! Also, this nice DG lady sent me a lovely packet of seeds for my memory garden, and I want to give back. :)

This is a very large specimen and probably very old. It has a delightful scent, and I have wondered what the heck it is. Now I know! So it's in the lilac family? I think I remember reading that. I should probably take another cutting for ME!

Would love to see yours growing wild. Have a good night.

A.

Well, I would think someone would be up soon. I have been working in the greenhouse until it got just too hot. Then I gave up came in, the sun went in and now it is raining.

I got all the Jasmine stock plants that I propagated and grew over the past four years transplanted into their new pots. The Jasmine Section of the GH is now finished. Next I will work on the bougainvillea and the anthurium. Anthurium is a favorite of mine and I am hoping to be able to make my plants happier so I get bigger flowers. Need to discuss this on one of the Tropical Plant forums. There is a trick to it.

I love the smell of mock orange. It grows wild here but I seldom see it anymore. I wonder where it all went? I would think it is easy to grow. If I could find some except it get so viney and takes over everything.

Now that I took all that time researching Epsom Salt I read that gardeners swear by it and yet there is little research to prove conclusively the ES have any effect on plants.. LOL Oh well, I at least know how to use it. It does say that roses, tomatoes and peppers show signs of magnesium deficiency late in the season so I may use it on them too. Rose growers really use it. I have two rose bushes. Then I can always use a laxative ???????????? ooops...off topic.

Back to work. Hope you all have a nice day and especially hope Dave is feeling better.

JB did you determine what quantity to use and what method works best (i.e. diluted or as granules at the surface)?

Can you believe my bad luck - those 2 Mock Orange cuttings I've been babying all summer, transplanted into new pots yesterday, and got crushed by this removable "thing" that comes out of my hatchback (what's the opposite of dahsboard at the back of the car/window?). I had just propped it up for a minute (okay more than a minute but not more than an hour!) on the front porch before I took it inside, and when I came back out the wind had knocked it down on top of those precious precious cuttings. :/

GAH. I rushed to straighten the one that was doing so well to find the new shoot had broken away from the stem at the bottom (but was still attached) and bent with pith exposed somewhere up the middle of the stem. I righted it and attached it gingerly to some straight bamboo twigs. I moved it into my humidity "chamber" that I use for cuttings. Then I took the top 3" which were broke clean off and dipped it in rooting hormone and stuck that in a separate container to see if I could root the new growth.

The other cutting was unharmed, but still not sure if that one is going to make it. I mean, that Murphy and his law. :/

None of the propagation books I've looked at have any information on how to deal with that.

Hope yours is better.

A.

I had that happen with a plant I had purchased from Annie's Annuals. I broke the maim stem and it was holding on by a thread. I took some string anf a stick and wrapped it straight. It healed and I actually was amazed it worked.

I am on DH's HP laptop and it is driving me crazy so I am going to wash the dogs and clean and garden. I will see you all this evening.

JB, what do you mean Mock Orange get so viney? Are we talking about the same thing? OK Amanda. I am going to go out in a few and cut a ton of those things and try in all ways to root them. If that happens I will send them to you. Jen


JB, I am going to go to my sent file where I sent a picture of the wild Mock Orange, or Syringa, and forward it to you. jen

I researched the internet on Epsom Salt and I am still putting it all together to see if it will be beneficial and worth taking a chance on it harming these plants. Thanks for your help and thoughtfulness.

The Mock Orange we have starts out as a bush and gets big and spreads out all over the place. I may not have used the proper term when I said viney. To me it is a wild plant that people pull out because it is so invasive. I love the smell even if it does not stay like a pretty bush. Forgive me for not being more clear.

Wow JB, I have never seen a MO do that. There are so many growing wild around here. Not so many that they are invasive. Just nice to see and smell. Wonder why you get so many that they are considered invasive. Do they start from seeds dropped? I don't know how they start around here.

How about trying ES on just one Gardenia plant, and maybe a weaker solution. One or two teaspoons instead of the tablespoon. Can you start one from a cutting for that purpose? To experiment on it?

However, I just don't measure anything. The ES comes in a half gallon paper milk carton. You know where the top opens on one side? Well, I just open it and pour some into the watering can. I really don't think it will hurt any plant.

Have to tell you a funny story about my mom. One spring she was getting ready to get all her roses ready for the growing season so she went into a nearby drug store to get her Epsom Salts. She went to the shelf where they were and took all they had stocked there. 7 of those half gallons. She had over 60 roses. She went to the cash register to pay for them and the clerk asked her what in the world she was going to do with all that Epsom Salts.

Mom told her she was going to put them on her roses. That clerk turned around and yelled to everybody in the store what she was going to do. Mom was just mortified. She was a very quiet and private person so you can imagine how she felt. She said she would never go back to that store again.

I just laughed when she told me about it. Well, that didn't help either. Poor mom.

She also grew a few tomato plants and put ES on them also. But, you know I use them several times during the season. I am just glad this topic came up 'cause it reminded me that I need to give mine some more. It will be the third time this season.

Jen






This message was edited Aug 9, 2011 5:18 PMShe went to the shelf where they were and took all they had stocked there. 7 of those half gallons. She had over 60 roses.

This message was edited Aug 9, 2011 8:41 PM

I use Espom Salts on my new planted tomatoes plascing in the dirt that will fill the hole, first fertlizing in the spring of the roses and the hardy hibiscus. It has been claimed in the Southwest. it helps grow stronger stalks. And also helps green up plants. I applied it to a yellowing Jasmine about a month ago along with chelate and it is still yellow.

I will return later. Sharon

Do you guys read your posts? I just read mine and part of it was missing. I went to edit it to put it back in and when the edit brought it up, that part was there. So, I didn't do anything to the edit screen and went back to the post and the part still wasn't there.

I wrote to Admin. jen

Thanks Sharon - it is resting comfortably. :)

Will keep you posted. I feel better too.

A.

Well go back and edit it again, copy part missing and paste it again. Maybe we will get in once, twice, three times a Lady.

I am doing a bunch of seed planting tomorrow. Mostly in pots but then I will place them in the back of the holding garden. And getting a few items ready to mail. 106 today.


Got first ripe seed pod off of Moy Grande hardy hibiscus.