Should I hire a professional?

We moved into our first home last March. We've lived in apartments and townhomes for the last 11 years; all that time I've been reading gardening books and magazines just dreaming of my first garden. Our home has some "staging" landscaping along the walkway from the driveway to the front door and the property is on a wooded lot. The house sits on 2.4 acres! I am so overwhelmed. I decided not to do anything for a year to see what grew into the front beds, but now I feel it's time to get moving.

I'd like to start one or two raised beds for vegetables and herbs. I love the look of cottage gardens, but I don't know if I can pull it off without making the property look worse. We did install a well, a sprinkler system and centipede grass when we first got here. The lawn is beautiful in places, but under the oaks (willow oaks - 20 of them) it doesn't grow. And another thing: I've been told we are on "low-lying" land which means drainage problems. Last summer a few storms left standing water around ankle deep in numerous places for about 3 days. I figure I can garden around those problem areas, you know, plant things that will tolerate standing in water a few days at a time.

I have been reading some threads and I guess the place to start would be hardscaping (paths, etc.), so do I hire a professional to help me plan this out? Should I address the drainage problem? Please help!

If you can possibly afford it, GET HELP!!! There's nothing more frustrating for the psyche and bad on the budget than making bad, expensive decisions on your own. GET THE PROFESSIONALS! Look around at other homes, research the Better Business Bureau website...talk talk talk to anyone and everyone that you come across. You'll start to find a pattern as to what people say about local contractors. Just do a little bit at a time. If you can't afford the $30,000 makeover, then just create a couple of paths this year, with a couple of manageable perennial beds. You can probably do the raised vegatable beds yourself, but a contractor has the heavy equipment and know-how to create paths that won't get flooded or break up next year. Good luck, post pictures, tell us your dreams!

I would definitely call in a pro to help you plan things out--they can help you come up with an overall vision for your property and it's always helpful to have that overall vision before you start making random beds here and there. You may need pros to help with installing hardscaping depending on what you put in, but for the garden beds you can do those yourself over time if you want to. Don't feel like you need to do everything at once either--my yard is 10 time smaller than yours and I still spread the work out over a few years.

As far as the drainage, I'd look at a couple of things...are the low spots up near the house? If so then you definitely want to get it fixed since you don't want water up around your foundation. Otherwise it's up to you, but overall your yard will probably be more usable if you get it fixed. Definitely hire the pros for the drainage though, unless you really know what you're doing I wouldn't suggest that as a DIY project. If the low-lying spots are close enough to each other, you might also consider having them dig out that whole area a bit and make a pond out of it.

@ Drumlin: Thank you for the advice and encouragement. I have been up nights worrying about exactly that--making bad, expensive decisions.
We can't afford that. Living on one income with a new house and two new cars and two kids eats up a lot of that income.

Thank you, too, ecrane3. Our foundation is sound. All drainage problems are out in the yard. I was thinking a pond, too; but then a little more than 50% of the lawn would be pond! lol I still want a pond somewhere. I did expect to take some time doing this (I was envisioning 10 years at least) I'm just afraid of making big mistakes.

Another question: should I order a kit for raised vegetable beds or just DIY it? I've seen kits and I've seen connectors for sale...

You know, I've thought a lot about those kits myself, and frankly anything that helps save time and make your task more successful is a good thing. If you're just talking about the connectors that connect wood together, they certainly look like they'd be easy to use, and anchor your garden well. You can just cut the boards to size and not worry about them being particulary square, nails pulling out, or awkward screw angles. Order one set and see how it goes, you can always go back and order more connectors. There's also the plastic-sided kits, which seem more durable than wood. I've never actually seen them in use, and I don't know how they would stand up to the elements...better than wood though, I'm thinking. That would be an interesting, specific question to ask on the forums...has anyone used plastic raised beds? Ooo, I think I'll ask, keep an eye out!

I agree that if you can afford it go for it. In my experience most of the the professionals landscapers does not charge consultation fees. You can do it 2 ways, have a design and buy the plants yourself and hire someone to plant or let them do everything. With the latter the plants are guaranteed.

I still hire help because I just don't have the time, I prefer to do what I love most during summer most especially golf. Still has to be around to supervise when they come. Have fun doing it!!! Belle

Good for you, Mileski -- that's a major challenge you've taken on, but if you go slow, as everyone else has suggested, you will be fine.

I found that it helped me to get out a big pad of graph paper and a long tape measure, and to mark out my lot boundaries, place the house and driveway accurately and mark any other large things (trees, hedge, shrubs, even the spots where water collects). Then, with this on-paper birds-eye look at your property, you can pencil in the projects and locations where you would like them. Remember to take into account your family situation (Will the kids need a swingset? Does your family like to throw a ball around together? Do you grill out a lot? Want a clothesline?)

If you are going to hire a professional to do the plan, this can save you some $$s. If that isn't an option (believe me, I understand "tight budget"!) you can decide what to tackle first, as a part of a planned-out whole. You want to have an overall vision before you pick up a shovel.

Finally, make use of all the expertise here on DG -- look at the pictures, ask questions, and remember that you are the only one who knows how you use your yard, whether you want carefully pruned shrubs or a more natural landscape, and how much grass you're willing to mow.

Good Luck!

This message was edited Jan 18, 2011 2:16 PM

This is just me, but it seems like hiring a pro would take a lot of the fun out of gardening! Look at what your neighbors have planted in their yards. I love walking though local subdivisions to see what looks good where and paired with what. Do one section of your yard at a time. I knew, for instance, that I just had to have roses bushes along one side of my house. The first spring we lived in our home, I planted rose bushes and one dogwood tree. By fall, I had found a type of hedge that would be perfect to help screen the view of our carport. There was also a pine tree that had to leave our back yard (kudzu had half-killed it, but I was able to help the oak tree that was growing nearby). This spring, I'm hoping to start a flower bed along the back of our home.

Just FYI, this is a link to the Northeast forum where I posted the question about the raised bed products. There's more interest in PVC than I sort of suspected.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1150052/

JamieSmith, I agree that gardening is a huge bunch of fun, once you get going. But if you're losing sleep over making a mistake, it's time to get some help! Once you get the bones in, the actual planting and playing with plants will be much "safer", and you can relax.

Jamie, I felt the same way you do. I've always said to myself that I would never hire someone to design my garden. I have walked around the neighborhood and most of my neighbors have large properties with boxwoods squeezed into small beds hugging their homes with huge lawns surrounding all. Some of them have large veggie gardens that are kind of an eyesore most of the year, and they look disorganized and unplanned if you know what I mean. I am a very spontaneous person and to balance that I think I need to take some precautions and hire someone--at least to put in "the bones".

@ DameAnne: I have several drawings on graph paper! Hehehe...I started drawing out my ideas before we even moved into the house. Yes, I was that excited before I got cold feet.

I have since made an appt. with a local landscaper who has agreed to work with me on my terms. We'll be meeting next week Friday. I. AM. SO. EXCITED! Thank you all for the encouragement! I will post "before" pictures soon!

YAY!!!! What fun! Yes, pictures please, we all learn so much when members share their experiences. Hope you can sleep better soon!

Time is the essence for me now. When we bought the house we were young and did not have much so our priorities were different. We planted with out a plan and tore and relocated plants almost every year.

Glad you decided to hire a landscaper!!! It is less stressful, satisfying l and cheaper in the long run. Will be following this thread for pictures. Bellie

It will be helpful to your pro if you have pictures of what you like and of what you don't like. Even give him the addresses of yards you have seen that you really like. Pictures speak a "thousand words" remember. Words describing what you want are easy to misinterpret.

Landscaper backed out on me! UGH. Back to the yellow pages....

This is, obviously, the front of the house. There is no walkway from the street, the walkway in the photo is from the driveway. I'm not sure if I'd like a semi-circular driveway installed in the front yard for more parking or just a walkway from the street. The street is paved with crushed stone and isn't wide enough for on street parking. Of course, guests can park in the driveway, but the person who arrives last must leave first or move his car many times during a get-together.

Curb appeal is my first priority.

During heavy rains water will sit for a few days from the corner of the walkway to the oak tree. I think the windows with the arches need shutters to make the front look more cohesive. What do you think?

This is a planting bed in front of the dining room window. The fountain was left as a gift from the previous homeowners. :) I've planted creeping fig at the base of the wall in hopes it will cover it sooner than later. The bed was "staged" as a sitting area which is one idea of how to use the space. I prefer to have it planted with lots of flowers.

I planted hydrangeas, salvias, creeping jenny, foxgloves and some others which were so pretty in the mornings to wake up to--then the sprinkler guy installed mist heads in that bed and everything rotted. The garage wall blocks the afternoon sun so I think I need to plant flowers that only need partial sun. I think I also need to plant more hedges or something for structure or will the creeping fig covering the wall be enough of a backdrop for flowers? I also don't know what to do with the hedges planted in front of the dining room window. How do I incorporate them into the bed or do I get rid of them altogether? We homeschool and we use the dining room as the "school" room all day so I want this planting to be extra lovely.

This is the view from the front door to the street.

This is the view from the street. Notice the lift station sticking up in plain view above the septic tank--it's between the right side of the house and the oak. Ugh! If you look further to the right you can see a dark spot of shade in the backyard. I attempted to build a firepit there to burn leaves and branches. It's not pretty, but it works!

So, walkway or semi-circular driveway?

This is a photo of the yard on the west (left) side of the house. When it rains a lot a veritable lake forms around those two oaks--this is where I envision a pond. The play set will be dismantled and gone soon. I would have to install my veggie garden here somewhere because this part of the yard gets full sun. I am only wanting to do a raised bed or two because there are only 4 of us; will that be enough for herbs and salad fixin's?

This message was edited Feb 3, 2011 8:40 AM

This is the west side of the house. It heats up in the summer time. I was thinking of an arbor over both windows with wisteria or some other fast growing vine to cool that side of the house. The well for the sprinklers and the gas tank and utilities are here too. Maybe I can mask the utilities with a trellis or something under the arbor with a seating in front of the trellis. There's a strip of gravel right next to the house, but I've let the grass and weeds grow up through it.

I'd like to extend a wall from the house with a gate in it as an entrance to this part of the yard. This way I can tuck the ugly trash can right behind the wall next to the driveway? Any other ideas for hiding the trash can?

This is where we currently put the trash and trash can. I know I can hide the air-conditioning units from the yard with plantings or a low fence, but how do I block the view from the breakfast room and the bedroom?

View of the back of the house. You can see we have a screened in porch. My dilemma: do I plunk a patio down adjacent to the back porch or do I site it further away from the house?

View from the back porch. There's a drainage easement about 30? yards back there. In the spring and summer it's filled with black water and mosquitos. I could put a patio over there, but what about the mosquitos?

This is the east side of the house. The glass block windows are in the master bath above the tub. Eventually I'd like to replace them with a window that swings open...don't what they're called...like French doors, only windows, so French windows? The next window to the right would become a French door and I'd like a wall built around both to form a private courtyard off the master suite with a fountain outside the bath, a seating area and espaliered something covering the walls or maybe more creeping fig. The wall sounds so expensive and I'm pretty sure it isn't a DIY project. I'm also not so sure it would look right from the front of the house.

On the west side of the house I'd like lawn (which is already there) surrounded by mixed borders. I really want cut flowers and even the vegetable beds integrated into those borders. I am in Zone 7B. I don't know why that's not listed.

Well, those are my before pictures. I'm looking forward to hearing all your ideas, too!

Couple thoughts--if I have more later I'll come back. On the walkway to the street vs the circular driveway...to me having a walkway to the street only makes sense if people can actually park in the street. If they've all got to park in the driveway anyway then it doesn't seem like having that walkway would serve any purpose, and it might confuse people into thinking they can park in the street. If you have people over a lot and dealing with rearranging cars is a real pain then I'd do the circular driveway, otherwise I'd just leave it alone and save your money for other areas of the yard.

Patio...if you're planning to use the patio when you entertain and have people eating/drinking/grilling/etc I would put it right up against the house for easy access. Otherwise if you've got to hike across the yard with your food & your beers, you'll find you won't really use the patio much. If you like the idea of having a seating area away from the house there's no reason you couldn't do that too, but I'd make the one that's farther from the house smaller and more informal--sort of like a secret garden hideaway with just a bench or a couple chairs where you can go and relax with a book. I definitely would not put a seating area of any sort near the mosquito infested swampy area since you won't end up using it if you're getting eaten alive by the mosquitoes ever time you go out there.

For your private courtyard off your master suite--instead of building a wall (which would be more expensive and probably not a DIY job unless you're pretty experienced), consider trellises with an evergreen vine. That's what I did off my master bedroom to create privacy--I put up a bamboo trellis for the "walls" and have white potato vine growing on it. I'm not sure if that vine is hardy in your zone or not, but there'd be plenty of other options. Here's a picture of it showing the trellises before the vines had a chance to grow in, but now it's completely covered with vines and you can't see through it. http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/i/31923/

Thank you, ecrane. What a great idea about the courtyard off the master! I liked your wall. My wall would have to be higher because it's a window into the bathroom. Looks like you're really close to your neighbors. My neighbor is kind of far away--maybe 100 yards? Maybe I can get away with forming the courtyard with arborvitae?

About the driveway...we just moved here last March and we're a little slow in the entertaining area, so in all honesty we don't need a driveway just yet. I think I'm just getting ahead of myself and wanting everything all at once. A walkway from the street would be nice because my hubby is a runner and every morning he runs through the front yard (right through the wet spot) through the front door and tracks mud and grass into the foyer. Now, this is my problem: if I put in a walkway and then decide to add a driveway later, isn't that just wasted money? I'd just have to pave over the walkway? That's what really bugs me--I don't want to waste any money. Am I just being crazy?

You're right about the patio. I do think it's better to have it next to the house. I actually had someone out to give me an estimate on a patio and he kept offering to put a roof on with an option for screens. I was puzzled until he said, "Don't you know that the mosquito is our state bird?" Something needs to be done about that stagnant water. Someone told me to throw mosquito dunk? into the water. How much of that stuff would I need? The drainage easement runs crosswise right through my property. Thanks again for your input.

What a pretty property!! I always envry people who live in the South...that same property in New England would be so expensive, the person owning it would be very wealthy and not have any thoughts of whether to hire a professional or not. *Sigh*. But I digress...

I'm sorry your contractor backed out, that was a disappointment I'm sure, but fine, move on. I agree with ecrane3 1000% about the driveway and patio. If you eventually create a semi-circle driveway, the way from your door, along the driveway, and then to the road would be a little more convenient for hubby, and he wouldn't need to run through the yard. And yes, I think by the time you dug up the front yard, put a base and a walkway on top, you would be wasting money if you had to pull it all up to make the driveway.

Considering that landscaping can take years (and never really seems complete anyway), I'd start with whatever would give greatest pleasure to your young family. Do they use the porch? I know you don't entertain now, but eventually your kids will make friends in the area and want to invite their buddies over. I'm thinking that instead of stepping on to wet grass, a patio would be very nice indeed. Ignore the "mosquito" as the state bird, all contractors want to sell you something more, that's how they make a living. Be firm about what you want, don't let anyone talk you in to anything unless it seems like something you would really want. If you want something in the middle of yard someday, buy a screened in gazebo and be done.

For THIS year, is there any money to bring in fill to level the area you want to plant vegtables in? Or add drainage? Certainly raised beds will help somewhat with getting the veggies up out of the water, but not if they're drowing in something that looks like a pond! Can you redirect that water into your extra well somehow? The mosquitos sound like they're going to something of a problem unless you get them under control. I guess the best thing there is to ask the locals what they do, and how much "mosquito dunk" you should use. I also recommend joining the local garden club!!! If you stay home, you won't have any trouble making the meetings either day or evening. There are so many great resources in the local garden clubs to help you figure out what to do, and I'm sure they will have opinions and advice on local contractors, plants, and just be good company as well.

I'm assuming the drainage easement where the stagnant water and mosquitoes gather belongs to your city/county/water district/something along those lines? They ought to have some responsibility for mosquito abatement, so you might contact them and see if they can provide you with some assistance. Laws about things like that vary all over the place so maybe they don't have to do anything, but I'd at least call them before you spend $$ on a bunch of mosquito dunks. The pkg will tell you how big of a body of water it'll treat but if there's quite a bit of water you may need quite a few and you'll have to replenish them every so often.

I agree on not putting in a sidewalk and then ripping it up later to put in a driveway, since you're trying not to spend a fortune that doesn't seem like the best use of money. Can you "train" hubby to run on the driveway (maybe you could tell him that extra 0.0001 miles he needs to run to stay on pavement will help him be that much faster in his next marathon/10K/5K/etc?) Either that or put him in charge of cleaning up the foyer--after a few days of cleaning up the dirt/grass he may decide that the driveway is a much better alternative! Or if it's potentially going to be years before you get to the driveway, you could consider a path similar to what you see in my back yard picture that I posted--put in landscape edging borders and fill in with crushed gravel. Something like that is not expensive and is a fairly easy DIY job.

For your courtyard, you could use arborvitae but it'll take them a while to fill in and really make a wall. That's why I did a trellis with vines, within 6 months I had decent coverage. My trellises are about 5 ft tall since that's all I really needed (there's a field behind my house, and then a hiking/biking trail on the other side of the field, so I was trying to prevent anyone on the trail from seeing into my bedroom) but you could get taller trellises if you want.

I had such a nice surprise today! I went next door and asked my neighbor who did her landscaping. The answer: she did it herself! Her yard is beautiful and my favorite in the neighborhood. It looks totally professional and the beds require little maintenance. She spent an hour over at my house encouraging me and listening to my plans and offering suggestions.

Now, I must remember that her yard has had 10 years to fill in; she isn't interested in gardening; and she doesn't like flowers. She suggested that I take out the boxwood out front and move them elsewhere and go to a nursery and buy some (I guess they're called) specimen trees and some shrubs? A bigger purchase but worth it because it's only one or two. (I loved all her ideas, but I was thinking climbing roses and cottage garden for the front of the house. Is that too messy?) Now, I'm thinking that maybe I should relegate my flowers to the side and back yard...I'm so tempted to listen to her, but what if I regret not having my flowers in the front? Her property really looks like it came off the pages of a magazine.

Thank you, Drumlin. We are blessed to live here. I think my husband is about ready to fork over the money for a patio--cross my fingers! Now I'm second guessing myself and my choices. Funny thing is, I filled out my order form for roses and I was waiting till Monday so I could call the company and ask some questions.

I'll just ask you: I want climbing roses to go over an arbor (or is called a pergola?) on the west side of the house to shade the bedrooms on that side. Do I need to have that planting bed all ready and the arbor in place before I order the roses? (Because I don't.)

Ecrane, when you say trellises do you mean the kind that you stick in the ground or is it something I have to build? I guess I may be thinking of lattice?

Mine are a little more like lattice--it's expandable bamboo fencing so I had to pound a couple posts in the ground to attach it. Since you want a particular height and you're trying to cover a fairly wide area, you might find it easiest to do something similar rather than buying those trellises that you can pound right into the ground (I'd use lattice instead of the bamboo fencing if you want more height). If you want it really solid & long-lasting you might make the corner posts like fence posts and cement them into the ground.

For your roses, if they're coming bare-root (which many roses do) you will need to be ready to plant them in something right away when they arrive. Ideally you'd have their spot in the garden ready and could plant them in the ground, but if you're really not ready yet you could put them in pots for a while instead. The arbor won't matter if you can get it in the ground without disturbing the roses once they're planted, but you'll probably find it easier in the long run if you can get it in first before the roses.

Ecrane, I just went back and looked at your picture and then I realized I could look at ALL of your pictures--duh *slapping my forehead*! What a great job you've done! Do you have any recent pictures? I would love to see it all filled in. You also have a little green house! I am jealous!

I was told that French drains start at $2500 for one and depending on how far it had to run the price would go up from there. Is that reasonable? We'd probably have to have at least three to fix the drainage. Can I DIY?

One of these days I'll get around to updating my diary with more recent pics--I have a few more recent ones of some other areas of the yard, but not my little bedroom courtyard so I'll need to take some at some point. You can see nicer progress pics here in the landscaping database http://davesgarden.com/guides/ls/user.php?user=ecrane3 but I don't think the final pics are any more recent than what's in the diary. I did most of the planting myself, but all the retaining walls and gravel "lawn" in the backyard I paid someone to do, and the front yard steps & dry creekbed I also hired out.

Personally I would not DIY drainage, but if you really know what you're doing then you could give it a shot. The trouble is if you don't do the drainage properly, you could make things worse instead of better (end up accidentally diverting water up near your foundation, or onto your neighbor's property, etc). I don't know if you can find someone who would lay out the plans for the drainage but then let you do the work yourself but that might be an option to consider. The actual work is mostly just physical labor (digging, filling with rock) and making sure that you get the slope correct so that water can drain where it's supposed to--where the pros are needed most is for the planning phase. If you have the pros do the whole job then they should guarantee their work for some period of time, but if you have them do the planning and then you do the labor that guarantee likely wouldn't apply so that would be another consideration. As far as the cost, I'd get estimates from a couple of different places and see what the range is then decide who's giving you the best price (which doesn't necessarily mean the cheapest!) My house is on a hill so I had all sorts of drainage done as part of my re-landscaping, but I only remember the total cost for the job, not how much the drainage was.

My Mom put French drains in herself many years ago, and she swore she would never tackle that job ever again!! This is from a woman who hauled rocks around her yard to make several stone walls, and at 87 still insists she doesn't need help with the yard. I would think it would be WELL worth the money to get a contractor with heavy machinery to do the job, and guarantee it.

As for the front, I see what you mean by the "staging". You can either move everything, or simply add some pretty annuals and perennials to the front. The shrubs that you have already would make wonderful backdrops to flowers in front of them in the same bed. Go to your local nursery in the Spring and get some stuff that YOU think is pretty...a couple of tea roses, lavender, other happy things. You can always take things out and move things around later or next year or the year after, that's part of the fun of having a garden! Your design will never stay the same year after year, that's just usually how it is, especially if you like to garden. It's an ever changing artist pallette!

As for climbing roses, they really do look great on an arbor, but it might take several years for them to grow enough to shade a bedroom. You really should have everything set up before the roses come. When would they arrive, and when do you think you can start digging in your yard? You also need to make sure that you angle whatever structure you use so they grow in the right direction to make shade. Speaking of structures, make sure that whatever structure you use for plants to climb on is very strong. Nothing worse than having this huge mound of vine smother and destroy a flimsy support. I'm not sure if you really want anything climbing on your brick house wall, I would think that would damage it.OH, and I wanted to mention that I LOVE those arched windows as they are! Up to you if you want to put shutters on those, but I really don't feel that's at all necessary.

A landscaper in the area finally returned my call and came out earlier this week. When he called to schedule the appt. I told him I knew exactly what I wanted. I decided not to even think about the walkway/driveway and concentrate on the beds I want around the south and west sides of the house. I showed him the shapes and where I wanted these beds and he was very helpful. (I notice people here tend to talk way too much and don't really listen to what you're saying--they're all very nice, but you can't get a word in edgewise.) We finally agreed that he would lay out and establish the beds and cover them with landscape fabric and pine straw and do planting later--because I couldn't tell him exactly what I wanted because I couldn't get a word in!

Well, yesterday morning I screwed up my courage and phoned him and told him I like English cottage gardens and English country gardens and I want something that's a cross between the two. Luckily, he isn't as talkative over the phone at 9 in the morning. All he said was "uh-huh, you got a plant list?" to which I responded YES! and he stopped by yesterday afternoon and we finalized a list of ornamental trees and shrubs. I'm so relieved. I slept soundly last night for the first time in a long time. He still has to give me the estimates and the hubby still has to give the okay, but I'm happy to have finally started! And what a different person I am after a full night's rest. :)

I haven't ordered any roses. I think I'll take it one thing at a time...I'm thinking of planting crepe myrtles outside of the west bedroom for shade. They grow pretty quickly and I think they'll shade that side nicely. Thank you for all the encouragement! Hopefully I can post after pictures soon!

Good for you!!! That's fantastic!!! At least you've figured out your priorities, and you've taken steps to attain the higher ones. Progress is everything, even if you step back later and want to tweek things once you see the actual results, THAT'S OK!!! Hear that sound, that's us cheering you on!!! Go Dee-eee, go Dee-ee!

Crepe Myrtles will be lovely! We Southerners do know how to talk! I'm glad you're getting some sleep and I can't wait to see the pictures.

You are on your way and glad that you are tackling few spaces at a time. Be careful though with the landscape fabrics because it will hinder the planting of shrubs, trees and perrinials. This is talking through experience. I hope your plans come true with this landscaper. Bellie

This message was edited Feb 7, 2011 3:28 PM

I second bellieg's advice against using landscape fabric. If you maintain your garden beds, you don't need the fabric. If you let garden weeds go, they are worse with fabric. And since thousands of seeds are deposited in our gardens daily, by the wind and by birds, for example,weed fabric has no effect. After awhile it starts to disintegrate too-ugly. If you garden regularly, which means you'll be planting and transplanting, you'll hate it. Enjoy the process of designing your environment.