In what regions is the Kudzu vine a good choice?

Whenever I search for info about this plant, other than the PFAF report, all I find is information talking about how invasive this plant is in the humid regions of the U.S.

Bill Mollison recommends it to Australian gardeners for it's edibility. Does anyone have experience growing this plant in the west? I want to cultivate it in a southern california food forest.

Another reason not to plant Kudzu.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/05/18/more-kudzu-blues-now-the-invasive-vine-is-increasing-air-pollution/

ants

I don't know if it's ever really a good choice, but it doesn't occur in the wild in California or other dry western states, so I suspect it needs more summer water in order to keep it alive. No guarantees on how it'll behave in an irrigated garden setting though--could be much more thug-like under those conditions.

I never knew N-fixers cause "ozone":
He acknowledged that any soil used to grow nitrogen-fixing plants or were fertilised for agricultural reasons would result in an increase in gases involved in the formation of ozone. “But in those cases, we are doing these things for necessary reasons — namely food production,” he observed. “In the case of Kudzu, it is an undesirable plant that is spreading over a large area in the south-east US” [BBC News].

Pueraria montana reminds me of Dioscorea bulbifera. Both are invasive in the humid south, but don't seem to be a problem here on the west coast. I'd be willing to try kudzu. Sounds like a low-maintenance plant. I'm always looking for plants which don't need irrigation. It's hard to see such a plant becoming invasive in an area where it has to compete for resources with jicama, sweet potato, ceanothus, moringa, malabar spinach, chayote, passion fruit, and blackberry. In any case, I'll make sure I plant it at the top of a hill so it doesn't receive residual, gravity-fed moisture throughout the year.

Having said that, people in the south need to USE this plant. It's extremely medicinal as well as edible. The root itself is a staple crop. I've heard they've started to make ethanol using the plant material.

It will need irrigation...if it didn't then you'd find it growing in the wild in CA and/or some of the other dry western states. What you'll have to do is walk the fine line of giving it enough water that it doesn't die without giving it enough that it tries to take over your garden. Having never tried to grow it, I couldn't tell you how fine that line is. And at least you know if it does start growing too rampantly you just stop watering it (as long as that won't kill the other things that are planted with it of course)

Ok. Does anyone know where I can get some seeds or live plants?

Try looking at traders from the state of Mississippi. It grows wild along the road and on hillsides. It is not attractive and very very very invasive. It has become a pest.
One thing I suggest, find another plant.

Plants -
As with everything, attraction is in the eye of the beholder. As I drive down the roads and highways in the piedmont area of NC - the kudzu is eerie and 'otherworldly.' In some spots it completely blankets our roadways for miles and creates a panoramic landscape of green and lush 'mountains and hills' that make one feel like the drive is taking place on some distant planet. It is spooky, beautiful, and architectural all at once. Although it totally compels the eye, in the background is the disheartening awareness that under the vines are trees and shrubs -- the scaffolding of the kudzu mountains, hills, and valleys ---struggling to live. I can't imagine how much money, time, and effort is expended in efforts to constrain this vine. I see evidence of those efforts everywhere but it seems like a losing battle. I agree - I would not plant it. A bit of climate change... a little extra water ... and it may take off. The birds will spread its seed and control may become impossible.

Here's an excellent link

http://www.fsu.edu/~imsp/silent_invaders/new_weeds/guide/plants/kudzu/kudzuorigin.html

I for one can't see why anyone would plant this. It takes over so easily. The only thing they have found to control it is goats and they can only eat about as much as it grows a day so all they do is keep it from getting larger but it would take more goats than a person could stand to eat all of it.

It's on the NATIONAL noxious weed list.

ants

I'd be extremely amazed if this plant could succeed in any area with less than 20in of rain a year. I'm sure it would be difficult to propagate in high deserts such as those of northern Nevada.....or anywhere in the west for that matter. It might be somewhat successfull in the Pacific Northwest, but I doubt it would do well anywhere with a prolonged dry season.

Could it possibly escape somehow to those more hospitable areas?

Basically kudzu has already escaped to all the areas of the country in which it can survive without help. There are some farther north states where it doesn't occur in the wild because the winters are too cold for it, and throughout the west (except for the Pacific Northwest) it won't grow in the wild because there's not enough rain. But everywhere else that's got warm enough winters and enough rain it's already there. Here's the USDA map showing the states it's in. http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PUMOL If you wanted to grow it in the west you probably could do it in an irrigated garden, but if some seeds got out into the wild they wouldn't be able to survive because the natural amt of rainfall is too low.

I don't know. Just saw it on the National noxious weed list. I'm no expert. I just see the stuff all the time & it is terrible. I see where they spray chemicals on it it it turns brown for a long time & then comes right back. Climate change happens & that is all it takes.

ants

You may want to read this article. Santa Rosa California has an ordinance against the spread of Kudzu, so it may very well grow in Santa Barbara....

http://www.jenniferhollowaylambe.com/aboutkudzuchaos/index.htm

I suspect it would grow fine in people's gardens where it gets water--sounds like the problem there is it spreading into neighbors' yards and I could see that would definitely not be something you want! Santa Rosa is also quite a bit farther north than Santa Barbara and gets a fair amount more rain. Still not far enough north for kudzu to be able to survive in the wild on its own--most of CA has way too many rain-free months for it to survive in the wild, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it could grow a little too well in someone's garden where it's getting irrigated regularly.

Even when the south was in a serious drought, the kudzu seemed to thrive when trees were dying. I think if anyone chooses to grow it, it should be contained and closely maintained. Like so many other "imports" it has a tendency to take over and displace natives.This plant is absolutely a Caveat emptor..

Also the person 'taking care' of it will eventually die... Next person sees the pretty flowers, doesn't know it's kudzu & there you go.

ants

Kudzu actually does have a pretty purple flower and smells like grapes when in bloom. However it's not enough to warrant encouraging it's growth. Just my opinion though. It seems to me I read somewhere that Kudzu will send roots over 30 feet deep in search of water. I know around here it only wilts in the most extreme heatwave's. And it's covered with fiberglass like needles which of course discourages anything from eating it's beans. I've always heard it was Japans revenge for the atomic bomb!

"Bill Mollison recommends it to Australian gardeners for it's edibility. Does anyone have experience growing this plant in the west? I want to cultivate it in a southern california food forest."

There are probably about a million things to eat out there. Why pick kudzu? Lamb's Quarters is edible also. Start some and it's the only thing you'll have eventually.
I prefer lettuce and spinach myself.

Boy, I hope it doesn't start running rampant in the PNW. We're already fighting a losing battle against Scotch broom and English ivy. Kudzu - brrrr.

Check California's noxious and invasive plants list. It may indeed be illegal to plant kudzu there.

According to this article, kudzu outbreaks in the PNW are currently "under control" I seriously hope so, but have my doubts.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NfsVwjG_TAMC&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=kudzu+in+PNW&source=bl&ots=yzrYWIIEOx&sig=VfKzrCcuIjwg--eFni9eey0c9RQ&hl=en&ei=jpFqTJ3iIsSblgeU4pDBAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDMQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=kudzu%20in%20PNW&f=false

It's not on CA's noxious weed list http://plants.usda.gov/java/noxious?rptType=State&statefips=06 Probably because it hasn't been found in the wild anywhere in the state--I doubt you can declare something a noxious weed when it's not even present in the state. There are plenty of things that are already here and spreading like crazy for them to worry about.

Both WA and OR have it on their noxious lists: http://plants.usda.gov/java/noxious?rptType=State&statefips=53 http://plants.usda.gov/java/noxious?rptType=State&statefips=41 Given the amount of annual rainfall in the coastal areas of WA and OR I agree that I'd be surprised if it's really under control, but other than the amount of annual rainfall the climate is quite different than the south so there may be something else that helps keep it from spreading as rampantly there as it does in the south. It also helps that everyone already knew it was bad before it arrived there--if you know what to look for and can catch it early there's definitely a better chance of controlling it than if you have no idea it's going to be a problem and tons of people plant it and then you find out it's evil.

I certainly agree that fore-warned is fore-armed. Especially with an invasive that averages 18meters growth per year, has 30 foot runners and an exceedingly deep tap root.

I've researched the extent of the "southern invasion" of this plant; how it blankets forests...etc. I wouldn't be surpised if, within 50 years, this plant was almost entirely wiped out in areas of the south. It is only a matter of time before another organism flourishes from the consumption of kudzu; whether it be a fungus, insect, animal, virus or bacteria something is bound to wipe out the plant. Nature tends to favor the diversity of balanced plant communities, which is why something such as a food forest may only need the input of irrigation water whereas a large expanse of monocultural corn needs not only irrigation, but also high inputs of everything from fungicides, pesticides, nitrates, phosphates, etc. One lesson we can extract from nature is that all organisms are kept in check solely by the existence of other organisms.

"I see where they spray chemicals on it it it turns brown for a long time & then comes right back."
Sounds like a great investment opportunity for monsanto to continue a tirade of glyphosate spraying. "We just need more firepower!" The USDA would better spend it's time researching biological control methods. First off determine where kudzu originates, research that ecosystem, and chances are some sort of control organism or organisms will be located. While they're taking their sweet time with that research, they could also channel their efforts into harvesting and processing kudzu for human or livestock consumption or conversion into biofuel. Although, such a plan would probably conflict with the prioritization our government has to the oil company lobbyists, large food-production companies, and might even harm alcohol sales. I find it very ironic that a plant widely planted during the great depression to ensure a food supply is now being so heavily vilified during this second great depression that we're falling into.

From everything I have read it wasn't started as a food supply but by the road department as erosion control.

Correct! Originally imported to provide erosion control on the slopes of highways. Because of two things - it spreads as fast under the ground as it does on top in optimum conditions.

Yes that was the most common reason for its widespread planting. Most sources mention it anyway.

A neighbor of mine planted one Kudzo plant at the corner of their raised deck at the beginning of the summer. By September it had covered the deck and the back door and everyrthing in between. Then it started to cover the house itself. It does look interesting, like a jungle, but it is just like a wild animal. You can admire it in it's own area, but you do not want to take it home with you. Since then they have been using anything they can think of to get rid of it, with no success. Of course you may love the idea of it covering your house. You can be Jane and your DH can be Tarzan. :) which could be a lot of fun ! !

Just my 2 cents. I sincerely hope Insipidtoast is reading the last post of Mableruth in IL.!!! Here in Georgia it is choking EVERYTHING!! It's not even close to exciting looking anymore. It's downright creepy. Trees are dying because the Kudzu is squeezing all the moisture out of them and the ground.
And if it grows that fast and somewhat wild in IL., I'd be very, very careful in planting it in CA. Yes, maybe it's drier in CA, but there are other ivy's that are not invasive.
Good luck!

Where did Kudzo come from anyway? It had to have a native home somewhere that it is not concidered invasive. insipidtoast don't be upset about all this negativity, we all have our own experiences, and you will have yours. Maybe it is just what you wanted - after all we are all different. If you still want to plant it then I am sure we all wish you good luck.

Kudzu was brought to the US from Japan for erosion control....a Japanese import that got out of control. A little info.

http://maxshores.com/kudzu/

themoonhowl thanks for the referance. I went there and was amazed. It is one thing to talk about Kudz and a whole different thing to see the pictures of it covering the world. I guess one of those houses might be a good hide away, but only if you close your windows.

Just like the poem says....grin. It is amazing how quickly that stuff can obliterate a tree or structure.

It was (maybe 'is') considered also a possible feed for animals (and maybe humans?)

On the site that themoonhowl has recomended there is information about different things that Kudzu is used for . If it were more controlable it really would be a great plant.

from moonhowls link:

"In China and Japan, ground kudzu root (called kuzu) has been a common ingredient in foods and medications for centuries. Kudzu is respected and enjoyed there. It's far more versatile than say, turnips. But kudzu grows better in the South than it does in its native lands. Its natural insect enemies were not brought to the U.S. with it."

It's the last sentence that gets me. The natural enemies weren't imported? But one only wonders what other damage they would do to our native species....probably not worth it.