container gardening vegetables first time

Ed,
I re-read your "soil" recipe and would like you to review my process and offer comments.

Originally, I followed the patented Earthbox instructions for container gardening, and used only Miracle Grow potting mix in all my containers. Then, I discovered coco coir and began cutting all the containers of MG to a 1:1 ratio of MG:coir. This became cost prohibitive, so only did that for one season (so there's some coir mixed in there still).

The more I learned, the more I began adding amendments like Black Kow composted manure, and my own yr-old homemade compost (consisting of shredder paper, leaves, coffee grinds and veggie peel slush -- full of earthworms, so I know I hit the organic mark!)

Problem is, it seems this season I've still had to buy more potting mix than ever cause I keep running out of potting "soil" somehow. Oh, I forgot to mention I had 2 yards of commercial veggie garden blend delivered in the fall and inadvertently starting using this in some of my eBuckets. Turned my existing potting mix into almost pure concrete! So, I'm having to amend the mixture to loosen up that heavy, sandy mix that should've stayed in the two raised beds it was intended for.

I've been reading up on the benefits of leaf mold, and have started introducing bags of year-old leaf mold into the system. I'm almost sold on the fact that the forest is comprised almost entirely of whatever falls to the floor and decomposes, so leaf mold has become VERY high on my list of additives (along with my own homemade compost that gets sifted and is the prettiest "black gold" you ever want to see when it's finished!)

I believe I'm on the right track. I probably just need to increase the volume of my homemade compost pile and the bags of leaves I'm collecting for mold, so I'll have enough when I need more. The problem is that my DH's already complaining about the few leaf bags I've tucked away to break down for the fall.

I probably just need a better hiding place for the leaf bags!

LMK what you think on my process.

Linda

Gmun,

Some plants are one per pot, like tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, bush beans and even some herbs like basil. Some (tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers...) get started indoors, usually in pellets. The others get started outdoors in the pots they are going to grow in. I never start any plant indoors unless I need the lead time; it's too much extra work. A good trick is to start 2 (or more) per pot planting the seeds near the center an inch or two apart. After germination simply transplant one plant from the pots where two came up to a pot where none came up. I use a flat wooden ice lolly stick as a trowel for this so I do not disturb the other plant. This, in theory, greatly reduces the amount of plants being transplanted. While still in first-leaves stage almost any plant will transplant well.

Don't forget about companion plantings for the tomatoes. Depending on your set up and how you mulch the plants, you can put in suitable smaller plants. For example, basil goes well with tomatoes. Normally, I put one basil plant in an 8" pot when growing alone, but I often put 3-4 around the base of a tomato plant. Just push in the seeds an inch or two away when you transplant the tomato and be happy with whatever you get. Both plants benefit from the association. I have also grown cutting celery with tomatoes. Cucumber's large leaf size and pepper's dense-forest foliage do not allow companions to grow well in the pots, so I don't bother.

Some plants are broadcast. Simply scatter a good load of seed in the pot and see what comes up. Cut-and-come-again lettuce and dill are good examples of this.

Some plants are many per pot but need to be spaced. Carrots and green onions are like this. Here you have two choices. I have found that carrots work best by broadcasting as above, and then thinning them as they grow. (Bear in mind my pet rabbit loves the thinned out baby carrots). I have even transplanted the baby carrots successfully. Green onions, however, hate being handled. They work best by spacing them when you plant the seeds. Plant as many as you can in the pot in a grid pattern. If the packet says plant them 2" apart, then plant them on a 2x2 grid, like graph paper. If you get them in early, you can go back and reseed the spaces after most plants have germinated.

The 16*24" pot would at least give you some zucchini, but no container is really big enough. They are monsters. A single plant would fill an 8*4 raised bed if I let it.

Broccoli are problematic. The seeds will probably come up if you put them in a cooler spot, but, depending on where you live, you are probably a bit late. They, like most brassicas (cabbage, kale, etc.), like spring weather and hate the summer heat. They also tend to be pest magnets, and are a big favorite with almost every known caterpillar, grub, maggot and worm. Keep them well away from your other plants, especially your lettuce and other leafy veg. I grew kale a few years back, and I ended up putting a butterfly's kids through college. Yes, they all went to Kale. Luckily for them, I don't use pesticides and I like butterflies.

Ed

I grow brassicas quite successfully from late fall all the way through early to mid-Spring (or whenever sustained temps rise enough that they start to bolt).

Growing during the winter has posed no pest problems for me at all. In fact, this last season, I pulled exactly ONE baby hornworm off of exactly one cabbage -- he's the only creature that gave me a challenge the entire winter. When the temps first started warming up, the aphids tried to move in, but I managed to stay ahead of them with a water hose blast and a colony of ladybugs released to the brassica area. The aphids were cleaned up almost overnight! As of today, I have 5 cabbages still growing. Two will get cut this evening as they have split. The other three are pest, disease and split-free so they'll keep growing till the last possible moment to have to cut them.

Brassicas are HEAVY feeders. I used 2 Tbsps. of Bloodmeal (Nitrogen) in the top 4" of potting mix per eBucket at the initial planting, and feed MG water soluable every 7-10 days thereafter when the plants started making heads.

Finally, they like an organic growing medium, so this past season I incorporated more composted leaf mold and homemade compost than ever before. They loved it.

Look.

This message was edited Apr 21, 2010 12:55 PM

Question for Gymgirl:

I like the eBucket set up because it's simple enough for me to do. Is there a thread that contains more details on the soil set up, such as which kind of fertilizer and how much to put in, etc.? I know that for EBs you have to put a strip of some sort of fertilizer somewhere on top of the soil.

Thanks.

Wow. Thanks for all the info! Perhaps I should have asked some specific questions before I actually started...! I did read a lot but there just seems to be so much to think about. Gymgirl, thanks for that article, I have bookmarked it and will consult it again when I am ready to plant some seedlings into their final homes.

I did read about zucchini in a hanging basket and thought about trying some of it that way but maybe it would be impossible to get a big enough hanging basket...?

I am planning some companion planting, I planted some basil seeds already and was going to put with my tomatoes. With things like marigolds which I've read are beneficial for a few things - do they have to be in the same pot to be beneficial to each plant, or will having them around in general benefit more plants? I also planted some borage in my strawberry planter (seeds straight into that one!).

Thanks Wulfsden for the carrot info, I pretty much did that so glad I am going along the right lines. They seem to be growing quite nicely and I read to thin then again when the leaves reach about 4 inches tall... would this be about right? I have chives in with my carrots... I made all these lists and put stars with the really important points and now I can't remember why but I just went with the stars anyway!!

By green onions do you mean spring onions/ salad onions? (I'm Scottish, they're called syboes in Scots... the US and UK, "two countries divided by one language" - George Bernard Shaw, I think). If so, I think I have too many growing together - should I pull them out or cut some at the soil?

I planted a few more broccoli seeds today so I will just see what happens with them, if they don't work maybe it wasn't meant to be this year. I think I have enough to worry about!!

Do I have to mulch even in containers? Can I use cut grass for this, or am I better buying something? Any recommendations?

Again, thanks for all the great info! :D

Quyen et al,
On the eBucket planting guides. I started out planting like the original Earthbox instructions and used only Miracle Grow Potting Mix. Over time, I've introduced a mixture of coco coir, Black Kow Composted manure, my own homemade compost and, most recently aged leaf mold (at least one year old leaf decomp). I generally stick to a 2:1:1 ratio -- 2 parts MG potting mix, one part homemade compost (always), and 1 part of anything else I'm mixing in. I've even gone 1:1 with the MG and the homemade compost.

Generally, I've been very pleased with the MG, however, the coir aides greatly in fast drainage (the system doesn't generally hold water in the regular sense. The excess drains into the reservoir, but is wicked up as necessary by the plant itself, up from the built-in reservoir). I use lots of organics when I'm planting my cole crops, cause they like it. And, I go with the MG and my homemade compost for the tomatoes and everything else.

As far as fertilizers, etc.

When planting tomatoes, I fill the eBuckets 3/4 full of whatever mix of MG/compost/Black Kow/coir I decide to use. In the final 1/4 of growing medium I mix in 2 cups of Pelletized dolomitic lime, and set the plant. Then, I use a balanced fertilizer (10-10-10, 13-13-13 or 14-14-14). Use a 6-8 oz. yogurt cup to pour a 2" wide ring on top of the soil, as close to the sides of the bucket (and away from tender roots!) as possible. I use a sleeve around the seedling made out of the Solo cup I'm transplanting from. This serves as a barrier against the cutworm, as well as a barrier against too much fertilizer washing up against the roots of a new transplant. Once the seedling is established and can take all the fert, you can remove the sleeve (or not)

When planting brassicas: Substitute 2 Tbsps. Bloodmeal (Nitrogen) for the 2 cups of lime above. Mix it into the top 4" of potting mix before setting the plant, and proceed as above with the fertilizer.

Here's how I plant an eBucket.

Pack the potting medium tightly around the sides of the colander, building up to the top of the colander. Pay attention to pack the space beneath the overflow straw and behind the fill tube (air holes). Then add more potting medium to fill the eBucket 1/2 way, and pat down GENTLY to settle any air pockets (some are necessary so use a light hand). Use the shower sprayer on the hose to water the potting mix well at this point, and let drain completely. Start on the next bucket while this one is draining.

After the water drains, add another 1/3 of potting mix, pat down gently and water down again. Finally, add 2 cups pelleted dolomitic lime to the remaining 1/4 of potting mix. Mix in well, add to eBucket, set the plant, and water in from the top.

Last step is to pour 2 cups of your fertilizer in a ring far away from the plant roots. Use the sprayer to GENTLY moisten the fertilizer, trying not to displace it too much.

If you've watered the previous layers down enough, you should get runoff out of the straw fairly quickly. If not, add water to the fill tube, just until the water comes out of the overflow straw. Put the lid on, carefully threading the seedling (and branches) through the plant hole, and position your eBucket in a moderately bright spot until the seedling is established. Then you can begin moving the eBucket toward more, then full sun (too much too soon can distress your seedling!)

Hope this isn't confusing or too wordy!

Linda

This message was edited Apr 29, 2010 12:26 PM

Gymgirl - I scatter leaves between my rows about six inches deep, and let the earthworms turn it into leaf mold. Every six months, or so, I dig up the black layer and add it to my beds.

This spring, I have so much leaf mold that I'm using it as part of my potting mix.

"I grow brassicas quite successfully from late fall all the way through early to mid-Spring..."

LOL Linda,

I grew kale successfully one winter without a single pest. I can't imagine what deterred the bugs. It might have been the 3 weeks of below freezing temperatures, or perhaps it was the 2 feet of snow mulch that covered everything. :))) The kale did not seem to care though. What an amazing plant... Ed

Here's one of my Zuchinni's in a 15-gal smart pot. The plant is getting big, but it looks a bit unhealthy. Any ideas on what is causing this discoloration?

John,
What'd you have in the SmPt as growing medium? Looks like you're either overwatering (I read somewhere zuchini does NOT, NOT, NOT, like its leaves to get wet) or a nutrient difficiency of some sort. So I recommend:

1. Stop wetting the leaves and see if that helps, or
2. Google what fertilizers are recommended for zukes, and adjust.

Hugs!

Linda

So...no water on squash leaves, eh? Sheesh...how do I forget these things?? I've got some neem oil on hand and I believe it acts a fungicide for this stuff. I got conflicting views in my google search, some say powdery mildew is fatal and others say it's cosmetic for the most part, but weakens the plant if it gets out of control.

Crossing my fingers...

Thanks, Linda.

John,
If it's powdery mildew, get a hand sprayer and spritz it with some plain old MILK. Any kind of MILK. Spritz...

MILK...

John,
I also found this thread discussion

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/997413/

Thanks, Gymgirl. Luckily, there's no shortage of milk in my house.

Looks like my cantalopes are "stuck" and not growing so much (the plant at the top of the pic is an acorn squash (bush) plant.

These canatalope were transplants, and I must have disturbed the roots too much (I had several cantalope seedlings in a 1-gal jug, then divided them up. Lesson learned.) They've been in these smart pots for about 3 weeks now. I'll go ahead and re-sow more seeds in individual nursery pots and cut my loses with these guys. One seed, one pot.

Again- please excuse the blurry pic.

HOW big are those SmPts?

Where're you buying them? Original website, or do you have a better price connection?

LMK!

I'll bet the 2 smart pots on either end are 15-gal and the 2 in the middle are 10-gal. They are quite spacious, huh?

I bought them online at the smartpots website. I tried Amazon but didn't see any deals, you may check again just in case.

John - this is hard to explain, but I'll try.

It has been my experience that when you set a small plant in a big pot, it does not do as well as when you put a small plant in a medium sized pot.

Here's what I think happens - when you water the pot, all the soil gets wet, the roots of your small plants try to grow, but find the soil too wet - so the roots die. The roots at the surface do okay, because the soild drains better there.

In a smaller pot, for some reason, the roots are able to grow. My hubby has asked me why this doesn't happen when I set plants directly into the garden - I can only shrug and say "dunno"

As I said, this has been my experience...

You have reasoned through this pretty well, honeybee. Interesting. For now, I have sown more acorn squash and cantalopes in order to get stronger plants. I'll transfer these plants to the big pots and see how they do. Maybe next season (or in the summer) I can adjust to smaller pots, we'll see.

This message was edited May 1, 2010 4:13 PM

John, once your plants' roots have reached the wall of their medium-sized pots, you would want to "pot them on" to your larger pots.

Here's how I do it...

I take two empty pots, one the exact size/shape as the plant is in that I'm going to work with. The other is the larger pot I'm going to transfer the plant to. I place the smaller empty pot into the larger empty pot and fill the larger one with my potting mix. I then remove the smaller pot from the larger pot. You now have a cavity which is exactly the right size for your transplant. Carefully remove the transplant from it's pot, and slide it into the cavity you made in the larger pot - your transplant doesn't even know it's been moved :)

To stop soil from washing out from the holes in pots, I use either newspaper, coffee filters, or sometimes leaves - whatever I have handy.

I have three earthboxes that I didn't use last year, but I did leave them outside exposed to the elements. I've already decided that I don't want to buy a refil kit because they are so expensive. I found that none of the them have the original covers - they deteriorated, so I am guessing that I can cover them with landscape fabric. It looks like one is also missing the pcv piping to put the water in, but I suppose that I can purchase a piece of pvc from the hardware store. So I guess all I really need to do then is add some fertilizer and lime. Could anyone give me an idea of how much fertilizer and lime, as well as clue me in if there is something else that I am missing?

Pennefeather was em good with hot soapy water. Rinse well then rinse. Final time rinse with 1 part bleach to 9 parts water and air dry. Use potting MIX only. Pack the wicks tight set the fill tube in place and. The soilbed platform. Fill mix halfway and water in well. Fill 1/4 more. Mix 2 cups of pelletized Dolomitic lime into the remaining 1/4 of potting mix. Set pLants and fill EB to the edges. I water in at this point really well. Then pour two 2" strips of fertilizer in the recommended EB pattern. See their wedsite. If planting tomatoes, pour down the two long outside edges as far away from he plant roots as you can. Sprinkle the top gently 2 not disturb the Fert, cover your EB, step back, and smile! All done!

Depending on what I'm planting, I'll mix either lime, bloodmeal (nitrogen), or bonemeal (phosphorus), into the final 1/4 of my potting mix.

I water in well before placing the fert strip cause trying to wet the mix down with the strip on just washes it all over.

Hope this helps.

Linda

I grow my hot peppers in containers because the squirrels does not eat them. tomatoes, sweet peppers and oriental eggplants are in my veggie garden which is netted.the squirrels are eating everything except the hot peppers.i will show you pictures after i plant my veggies.

i think you can plant almost anything in containers. Happy gardening!!! Belle

Gymgirl, I am growing tomatoes, cucumbers, and cantelope. I am also lazy, and was not planning on washing the EBs. I have probably washed a good two hundred nursery pots during the past week to transplant all of my seedlings, and I am all washed out.

On the other hand, I do want to get a good amount of fruit, so I may have to smell like chlorine one last time.

Pennefeather,
Can you say, "Winter Sowing (WSing)?"

There's a whole thread that started in January discussing a method of sowing seeds in winter. This method would've saved you washing about 200 nursery pots -- unless, of course, you were washing them to give the seedlings away to friends and family -- or selling them...

Otherwise, they'd have come out 'a your WSing vessels and directly into your ground...

Also, look for a thread I started entitled, "Washing your EBs 101..." It has pics of what the underside of your soilbed platform might contain after a season or two of growing big indeterminate tomatoes in an EB....

Linda

LOVE this thread! Glad to have found it, answered alot of my questions.

However, I'm moving from a garden-less apartment to a house with a yard in a week. I'm in zone 7a, and I'm starting a self-watering container garden for vegetables, and herbs. Planning on doing at least 4 or 5 (my list keeps growing!) of 18 gallon containers for carrots, eggplants, and a number of other veggies, and some shallow ones for salad greens.

I've got both the Incredible Vegetables from Self Watering containers and Stucky and McGee's Bountiful Containers books, but still have no idea how to figure this out.

How do I calculate ahead of time how much soil I need?? I have nothing, so everything from compost to the peat, to blood meal I need to purchase. I would ultimately like to mix my own mix too. But mainly, how do I determine overall how much soil I need? How have you solved this problem before?

Kindle,
Post your question over on the Self-Contained Box Gardens forum. They'll have a good answer for you!

This message was edited May 4, 2010 12:22 PM

Here's my yellow crookneck squash about 30 days after transplanting. It's as wide as the smart pot, or 18". Hopefully, this is par for the course as far as plant development. Or, is it on the small side?

It will get much bigger than that. Here is mine from last summer. It grew even larger by the end of the summer.

Guess I should have said: does my plant look ok @ the 30-day mark in terms of size? Anyway, nice pic, Quyen! Now we're talking!

Yes I grow veggies in containers. The pot always needs to be big enough for the type of plant being grown. If you do not need to move the container around generally the biiger the better. But that doesnt mean you nedd to use a 50 galoon trash can....unless you want to. lol The two things that come to mind about plants in containers is that they dry out quickly in the summer, so you will need to water frequently. Also they tend to heat up faster when it gets hot outside in the summer. Especially if you are using black plastic nursery type pots. During the peak of summer it is best to keep pots away from brick walls that get full afternoon sun as well as not leaving pots sitting on hot concrete or pavement.

I have great succes by adding organic fertilizers to the soil before planting and then adding some to the water too everytime I water. There are a lot of things you can add, both common and uncommon, that will increase plant growth and yields and to even increase tolerance of extreme weather conditions. Try the link listed below for an awesome list of fertilizers to add to soil and plant water to increase plant growth and yields.

http://sites.google.com/site/allabouteverything1234/fertilizers-and-nutrients-to-increase-plant-yields

Green Thumb - I add crab meal to the planting hole/row at the beginning of the growing season. I buy mine by the large bucket from Worms Way. I buy various formulaes of organic fertilizers so as to have lots of diversity in the soil. I also add seabird guano.

John, your crookneck looks just fine. The hotter it gets the bigger that baby will grow. You have a fruit on there at 30 days out. I'd say you're doing fine;o)

I planted my zucchini in the party-ice-box container, the leaves weren't looking great when I planted it, but it's growing new ones since I took the photo and they look ok. Fingers crossed it might work.....

Needed some more containers so wanted to see if there was anything I could use without having to buy something - came up with this... Bag is sealed outside & inside and then have plastic bag duct-taped inside.

And with plant:

gmun, i like that your garden now has some washboard abs in it. haha. who's going even look at those tomatoes when you can look at that sexy bod?

I can picture it now, watering the same spot in the garden for 20 minutes cause you forgot what you were doing looking at the hunk.

ha ha... yes I will have to pay attention!!