Propagation: part XIV based on my own experience

Thank you all for your best wishes and prayers for DH. Nothing showed on Upper and lower GI so now we are going to a blood specialist.

Dave, now I am confused. When I get a potted plant from a nursery, I always soak it in a bucket of fresh water until all the bubbles disappear. I did that with some coleus my sister brought from California in pint size pots. I immediately killed 7 of them in 3 days from total rot.

Sharon, you did what you were suposed to do as long as the plants did not sit in the bucket for a long time. by waiting for all the bubbles to go away you are vacating the exsisting air and replacing it with water . once you pull the plant out of the bucket the excess water will vacate the sair spaces and fill with new air. if the air space is never allowed to drain then the roots cant get the air they need as well as beging to set up for rot.
Most likely what happened was the plants had a disease that was waiting for the right conditions to start and by soaking the rootball you lit the match.
one question that comes to mind is did you plant them in the ground or planters?
How long did you hold the plants before transplanting?
did they do any wilting while in the pots from the nursery?
The plants from nurseries are watered most of the time on a daily basis automatically. usually early in the am allowing time to dry off and go through the day without needing any more water. I do the same thing to my nursery as it is. I find it strange calling a small area I have a nursery. in the summer I will have to add another cycle to my timer in the afternoon because we hit 100 degrees in july an august.
All soil based mixed (soils in the ground also) have disease's waiting for optimum conditions to activate. usually excess moisture and stress aids in the progress of death of the plant. I have been fortunate in that I have not had to deal with a lot of plant loss. having said that I have no way of telling wether the plants that failed last winter did so because of the winter or disease got them and I just missed seeing the signs.
i hope this helps and did not totaly confuse you. I like to get to the bottom of these questions as I too pick up something from the chat about it.
Dave

Dave, how are your nrcs doing? How many did you lose? Were they worth the money you saved by getting them? At one point you talked about pinching your verbenas didn't you? Did you do it? If so, did it make a big difference? I am at the point that if I am going to, I should do it now. I think. I have never pinched verbenas. But, I have never had them this small either. I have never started them from seed before.

The seed packet said they had to be in total darkness. Even said to put black plastic over them. Well, I mean to tell you that is totally wrong as far as I'm concerned. I tried some under lights and they did much better. Don't know why the difference but in the dark I don't think I even got 50% germination.

Even Dr. Carolyn, among other experts in the field, say that covering seeds from the light is not necessary and sometimes detrimental. I have read several books also mentioning to not cover the seeds and that they have found it to be unnecessary. (My 2¢ worth..)


Evelyn ☺

Well, I don't know. I talked to the vendor and she is quite sure of it. But, it didn't work for me.

Hi All:
I don't think they were worth the effort. I got better result from seeds or my own cuttings. I like to have 2 - 4 sets of leaves before I pinch. Its just removing the apical dominance. I don't think I will be doing URC's again. If I had a huge greenhouse with all the bells and whistles maybe but on the fly the way I am set up its not worth it to me. Plugs next year. Funny thing is I need more lights for my seeds inside as well. I have to rethink the setup.
I have read where they say cover in darkness but I usually skip that step too I get pretty good germination. I have been doing a pinch of 3 - 10 seeds to give me a good start. I realize its overkill but I like the results. its like the seedlings are in a competition to see who gets biggest faster.
I am hopeing to have more lights next year and try more seeds and see what I end up with. Just experimental.
I feel there are enough growers out there doing plugs that they can be had cheap enough to offset the losses from cuttings and make it well worth the extra $$$ for plugs.
the pic is african daisy. I planted 50 cells of seed last week. my seedlings from the week before are already sprouting and look great
Dave

Wow, those are some seedlings Dave. lol

There is one nursery about an hour from here that sells coir, but none of the ones here do.

Hi Hellen:
I can't wait to see them bloom. I also planted some spurred something (away from my computer so accesss is limited). I will dmail you a pic once I get one to start flowering. I did botice my sibierian wallflower in bloom. wow its a nice orangeish color. I bought the seeds as a lark to see if I liked the flowers. I will most definately be growing a lot more for market place. Pic tomorrow once I get home to send it off.
Its going to be a nice bed in the backyard once everyone gets settled in their spots and I can start cutting on them.
well I hope everyone had as great a saturday as mine was. It was a bit windy and looked like Rain but it just floated bye
Have a good evening
Dave

We will take rain while we still can get it ha Dave?

The Siberian Wallflowers are new to me. Will look them up, I love my standard ones. Someone told me that they thought some plant I was trying to ID looked like a winter wallflower but I don't know what it is. I need to look more WF up?

I am so excited I went to the RU in California today. I am so exhausted, since it was 2 1/2 miles away, but it was fun and I scored a lot of plants.

Mornin:
So what did ya get???? I wish someone wouls do one in our area. closest ones are Dallas and little rock. I thik there are more of us on here from tulsa/okc. Its my 1st time growing it myself but I like to get info on it before I go selling theme. here is a link to what I found.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/188413/
I will send my pic tomorrow
Dave

hellin, why are you so tired if it was 2 1/2 miles away? Did you walk all the way? Carrying a load of plants on the way back?

Hugs and Prayers for those in the states where the storms just ripped through. We have rain here but so far no bad storms. JB

My butt just does not like to sit for that many hours in the day but her place was a place of hiking and we did hike for wild flowers up this big hill, on top of the sitting.

Yes you know you can offer to host the RU David.

Good mornin ... whats left of it...
I have thought of hosting maybe next year as my schedual seems booked up at the moment. Might be easier without the mass of seed flats I played momma to last winter. I am thinking I will use my cart to grow 8 or 10 hanging baskets, that way they are ready to hang once winter is over.
The storms looked like pretty bad ones from what blew past us. we got luck in that they blew by and started intensifying to the east. I knew they would have some tough weather with the dryline being included in the moving storm.
I hope everyone has as beautiful a day as the one I see outside today. a nice cool breeze with temps in the 70's
Dave

Good afternoon:
I was watching a garden show put on pbs by our extention office on gardening. They were talking about planting perrienials and trees in the landscape. I am chatting about this because they made a point to discuss the planting and that it is important to NOT amend the soil going back into the planting hole. They said " amending the soil can cause disease and root rot to happen easier" . This goes against everything I have been taught on plants.
I have a feeling it most likely does not apply to those with a heavy sand based planting area, like linda out in south carolina. Their soils can be nothing but sand and they need some organic matter mixed in to help in moisture retention. I found this to be true in my personal planting I did in south florida. it was tough to find much organic matter in the soil (sand). Personally I like to use peat moss (coir also), some slow release fertilizer and a minor element fertilize that is organic in form. (Milorganite)
I have yet to find any available here in tulsa. Its made from the reclaming of organic matter from the waste treatment facilities of milwakee wisconsin. I know euhhh yuck and many other things come to mind. Its a safe product which I used extensively. It was so safe we would put a hand full in the planting hole right where the rootball would touch. now I have not tried it on small plant starts so use with caution there, but as a topdress fertilizer for turf or landscape plants I recomend it. Oh yea I used to wash my hands after use and if I had a cut on my hand I would not touch it... call me parinoid but Its made me feel better.
We used to say it did not matter how much you put in the hole as it would not burn. well we had one consumer who put 50 pounds of the stuff in the whole where he was planting a (tropical) hibiscus. very interesting story. I just found where I can get it for our yard so I will be using it on my yard.
Here is a link to it.
http://www.milorganite.com/home/faqs.cfm

here is a pic of my siberian wall fliower seedlings
have a great afternoon
Dave

ooops its the stock pic from the seeds I will get the seedling pic next

Speaking of Milorganite, I found out from a member here that owns a nursery, that it is the nurseryman's secret, for repelling rabbits.

We have been taught here in the Las Vegas Basin to not remove all the native soil but to compliment it 50/50 with native soil and enhancements. That is what I have done for years with much success. Bu I do not deal with clay. I deal with blow sand. It is exactly that, any dirt that blows around in the wind and covers the rock. Kinds like course silt....

Tough day in Las Vegas. 30 mph gusts today and tomorrow 40 to 50 mph sustained winds. My poor roses and Irises are not in a good place. Last week it went East towards the lake so let us keep our fingers crossed.

If I did not amend our soil, I would not be able to grow much as it is hard rocky clay. Why do we all have compost piles and try to have good soil? Everyone does not have that perfect loam in their gardens already. The places that have little or no amendment look the worst. Still, I have heard that theory as well, not to amend the soil as the plants would only grow in the hole that we amended...that might apply to trees, as the roots would not fight to go down deep for moisture, but for perennials and other landscape plants??

The sun came out late yesterday after three days of rain and wind. The sales are picking up on eBay and the Marketplace. Not sure why, but things are moving. I will soon have an empty greenhouse except for Christmas Cactus and Gardenias. I need to get busy taking cuttings from the hibiscus and begonias or I will be out of inventory.

I need warm weather and more sunshine. The Jasmine look awful. Their leaves are turning yellow which means they need more sun and less water (or more water) who knows? I can only think it is the lack of sunshine and I am unable to keep a stable temperature and humidity in the GH during the past month. I just brought 5 starters inside and gave them a shot of feed, am going to try and get those leaves green before I ship them. Otherwise, I may have to discount the price. You just can not win.

I have been up since 2:39 am since Mr. Barney, the darn dog, ate a hot pepper yesterday and his gut rebelled. He had such discomfort he could not sleep. He just now decided he wanted to eat breakfast. I want to go back to bed but can't because I have so much to do. It is in the 30's here this morning and the pink lilac are beautiful. Two years ago I bought 3 of them. They bloom all summer, starting now. Amazing.

Here is a picture of the biggest one. They do not get very tall, just bushy. The pink does not show up very well on the picture. It is a brillant pink, not lavender.

Sounds like things are looking up JB. Must be spring. LOL So glad. Not a very nice winter was it.

JB, what are the lilacs that bloom all susmmer? Are they the dwarfs, Something Kim? There is another one. I had it and lost it before it got any growth to it. I didn't know they bloom all summer.

Jb: I am glad to hear your sales are picking up. I have had a few but hopefully I will get moreonce I get pics to do my hosta of the year group and some of the different hostas. I am almost out of alaska, shasta daisies and gaillardia species. so its been a decent spring for me as well.
I was just repeating what the hard thinkers are saying now. I have to watch out because some of them have not gotten out of the college atmospher and have NO real world experience. I know I was taught to amend and have always done so and will continue to do so.
What are you using to break up your clay. I know we have a lot of clay here and when I was working in the local garden center we sold a product called back to nature. its a by product of the cotton factories, they grind up the cotton seed hulls. I helps break up the clay. I know we never want to mix peat moss with clay. I wonder how the coir would do in clay. hmmmm
miss kim http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/55992/
dave

THat"S what it is Miss Kim. Beautiful. I ordered a nice plant of that from SpringHill Nursery a couple years ago and they were out of stock so they sent me 2 little tiny ones. They didn't make it.

Dave, I thought you use Gypsum to break up clay. Check it out.

I use gypsum and Kellog's Amend, which contains gypsum, as well as loads of compost.

It is snowing again....well a rain/snow mix...where is that darn spring??

3 days ago, I sowed peas and carrots, and the next day I put in beets, broccoli and potatoes, and rearranged some stevia plants, of which I was surprised to see their rosettes, as I had not tried to overwinter this before.

Now the plants and seeds I just put in, would normally go in late winter-early spring. The weather was so unstable as well most of the time it was raining or snowing and soggy-wet...not the ideal time to plant anything. The Bluestone order I received a week ago, I just potted them up as I have no idea when the weather will give me an opportunity to get them in the ground. I have made a bed for them, and now weeds are growing...again! It is too wet to do any weeding now, but is supposed to be nice by the weekend..like last week...

The tomatoes are still in the cool basement under lights. I have taken them outside on nice days, and they should not be far from being hardened off. I keep the peppers inside until it gets warm, as I don't think they can stand cold weather so much as tomatoes...I am hoping to put a few out this weekend, if the ground is dry enough...and put gallon jugs of water around them to keep them warm at night. Maybe I'll cover them with row cover...or just do that with some and not put them in yet if it is too soggy...any ideas??

(This is a view from my window to the road...) ☺ Evelyn

You are correct about gypsum. I never had much luck with it so I switched to the composted cotton seed burrs. Any organic matter should work. I just know it was an easy fix and helped me get things done.
I wondered about you evelyn with all the reports of snow and all. of course I take any report with a grain of salt as they tend to blow the weather out of perportion. When I was in florida they would make it sound like all of oklahoma had been flattened by tornado's when actually it was not so bad a couple of trailers lost their roofs and shed got moved down the street.
Have a great evening everyone.
Dave

If that was a current picture, she had snow alright. yuck. It is cold enough here. 28 degrees tonight. Darn. How can you plant things out in a 28 degree ground.

I had great success with my old hard pan spot, in my old yard, with Gypsum, but the local nursery told me that it makes the problem worse here, with my caleche, since the gypsum particles are smaller than the clay particles, with are already very, very small. So I tried it anyways, and he was right. Do you know that in my yard, I still turn over soil, that has whole gypsum chunks sitting there in the soil, unphased by the 6 years since I put it. Wood particles work the best for softening up our soil. We have to plow it in to have a good sod yard.

I know in parts of Vegas, in the mountains, they have to pull a dynamite permit in order to plant a tree. No thanks. Nice view but that would be one hot neighborhood.

So if not Gypsum Dave, what did they say to use?? I hate it when people tell me not to do something but do not give me a solution.

Jnette I hope you aren't talking about me, because I did say, that wood compost is the best for Caleche. If you don't have Caleche than it is probably not a problem for you. I don't even know if you are responding to my post, but if you are, you could be a bit less attacking. I never did anything to you.

Don't be so paranoid Hell. I was talking about the nursery that Dave went to and they told him not to use Gypsum.!!!! What is your problem?

No, don't tell me. I truly do NOT want to know.

Well, here in Vegas where dynamite is illegal, we use soil sulfer. If it is placed on top of the soil/chelate and then watered in, within two days the soil is easy to work. You never want to try to dig in the dirt of the SW desert that is not moist. You will not get 2 inches down.

Hell in Zone 11, you must understand if you live next to the mountains in Las Vegas, then the "soil" has been graded down many many feet and the landscape soil is moved in to facilitate gardens. That was one of the selling points of the area. Well guess what, when I started moving plants around, I found many rocks so it was all bulls***... The bulls*** was from my builder because he said he enhanced the soil even further than the primary developer of the main area which was Howard Hughes.

When I went to move plants I found large rocks just below the 2 inches of landscape soil. I complained and the builder had a young man at our property for over three weeks 5 days 8 hours a day to remove rocks. But then he said he was no longer going to remove any more rocks and I told him great, but contact my attorney I was not paying him the last $150,000 that was owed. We won with very little attorney fees because my son-in-law is an attorney. Both prime developer and our builder caved because they were very in the wrong. Of course when we settled, we told all our neighbors so they got a similar settlement.
Long story but yes now we have great soil, down deep but it did take dynamite under proper control. My father built a basement under our family home with us all living in the home while he dynamited the ground underneath our home. He was an expert because he worked in the mines and knew what he was doing. So go forth gardeners, you cannot garden any place worse than the SW desert....Tomorrow I will show you what you can do if you have as many friends as I do on DG. That means you wonderful poeple. Love you all.....

Good Mornin:
The product is packaged by Back to nature. Its composted cotton burrs. Gypsum was the solution most of my instructors gave as how to get clay soils more workable. Fortunately they also gave other options like compost.

http://www.backtonaturecompost.com/cbc.html

I sold at least a truck load of the stuff in the spring I worked for them. I love the feel and smell of a nice soil mix, to me its like cookies in the oven. I guess I am strange.
anyone got any idea's on what to use as a ground cover between pavers? It seems my dear wife has decided that in order to keep from having to add gravel between the pavers she wants us to put some soil down and plant around the pavers. She hates liriope or any other kind of grass. of course it has to be low maintence. I am thinking a creeping thyme. I think it would be nice when it blooms.
I don't know why I am drawing blanks. moss wont work because our summers are to harsh for it. I did manage to grow some moss in a few cells of a propagation tray, but naturally it gets water daily. Thanks in advance for the idea's.
Dave

There are several thymes that would work, but get a fragrant one when you walk on it.

Good morning, Dave and all ~

I was going to suggest creeping thyme, but you already mentioned it. In my experience, it is the easiest small ground cover I can think of. I have several varieties growing here as it is cold hardy and heat and drought tolerant once established and not fussy about soil. The second one that comes to mind is veronica. There are two lovely ones that I got from High Country Gardens last year and they are blooming now. I haven't gone outside yet, as it is quite cold this morning. I did not take my plants off the shelves last night and wrap them up so I hope that they are not frozen solid, but they all are hardy, since they were sown outside, but still quite small. I will check for damage. Let me know if you would like me to send you some thyme....still, veronica has lovely blue flowers, the thymes I have are all pink....

The sun is shining now and the snow is melting. Last night the moonlight on the snow was quite lovely. I sure hope that this is the last of it as in the 23 years I have lived up here, we have not had snow in April. Last year, March 14th was the last snow of the season.

I hope everyone has a wonderful day...

Another one might be creeping phlox, but they are somewhat taller than the thyme. Am trying to think of the thyme plant that is a mint. That smells good when you walk on it. I doubt that many plants would take an awful lot of foot traffic tho.

Jnette ~ Were you thinking of pennyroyal? I have creeping phlox, and for me, it looks good in spring, and then, not that great, but not that bad. Creeping thyme is attractive year-round for me.

Dave ~ I followed your link to the "Back to Nature" compost, and they do not distribute it in CA. Dave, does that walkway get much sun? If not, golden moneywort/ creeping jenny might look nice there. (Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea') or Irish and/or Scotch Moss.....Sagina sublulata. Still, in my mind the thyme seems like the practical solution as it is so easy, and is not fussy in the least, once it is established, and it can take some shade as well as full sun.

Sharon ~ Thanks for the idea of soil sulfur. I got some for my hydrangea...if the deer don't eat it, but I will get more for the whole bed, except for near the daphnes, as it may acidify it too much. I suppose I can put some lime there, and then more mulch....organic matter seems to disappear in that bed for some reason, as it has been applied every single year, and more than once, I have dug out all the plants, double-dug it, and put in a lot of good compost. I have neglected it in the last three years, due to multiple surgeries, but now I'm better, so....back to work! what I need to do is cultivate it, as it is compacted due to my walking on it to remove the leaves and pine needles which are constantly falling in there, and weeding as well....I guees if I left the leaves in there, it would just be a natural mulch...that would be the weed suppressor as well.

Does anyone here leave their leaves in their beds for a natural mulch? I always think it would harbor fungi.

Dave, I think we have pretty much all voted on the thyme. However there are a lot of thymes. It would need to be something like Mother of Thyme, or the mint. Can't think of the name of it. But something low and the one that they advertise as good for walking on.