Cost effective vegetable gardening?

Twiggy, those look great - you're way ahead of me! Mine are still just barely past the germination stage. The sun is out today, altho it's chilly. But maybe I can rouse myself to go out and get the bed for them weeded and ready. I'm trying to decide if I have a sore throat or not. ;)

Twiggy I am so happy to see the Little Gems, they look great, I have left some of my little gems in the raise bed where I placed my tomatoes, they are interplanted with some 4 seasons lettuce as well, I am waiting for them to get a lot bigger before I start collecting leaves for salads etc...

I realy hope this weather holds up and it does not freeze, I have planted almost everything out already.

Most of my cool weather veggies have been toast for a while - lol. I do have some lettuce and cilantro still going that are a little shaded. And I am finally getting seed pods dry enough to harvest on the Canton Bok Pak Choi twiggy sent me. That is another cost effective move - being able to save your seeds!

Thanks Carmen. I used 2 for a decent salad made with marinated garbanzos and a green onion. I couldn't wait any longer because I'm starved for fresh vegs. I don't know how big these are supposed to get but it's been so warm that I fear they'll bolt early. I'm going to start using them and will save a couple back to see how long they last in good shape. This the first time I've grown butter head type lettuce and I cut the whole works off at the stem. I don't know if cut and come again works for these but the stubs are still in the soil with the bases of the leaves and they're welcome to come again.

Kelly I have lots of Pak Choi seeds left to ripen too. More importantly, I have new ones. I'll sample them later this week. Last fall when it seemed it would never cool down, they did very well. It was too cold this awful winter for them to grow well but now I'll get to see how well they behave in my short spring. They've been my favorite and most useful cool weather crop. For sure I've got to save seeds.

They did well for me this winter. I planted a final round but they bolted quickly once it warmed up:o(

How hot is it in Phoenix? We are getting into the 70s next week. Most cool season vegetables don't bolt until the middle of next month. By May, it is all over.

We're in the 80s this week, but we had a few days back about a month ago that went from cool to upper 70s. The winter veggies were crying - lol... Last year we hit 102° the first week of April!

We hit 100 in mid-April last year. This was the first time it ever got that hot in April. It beat the old record of the earliest 100 degree day by almost 3 weeks. Its an El Nino year. The weather seems to come on gradually. So, it should not be that hot until at least the very end of May. Probably, not until June.

How are your collards, kale and chard. These seem to weather the heat much better for me. Lettuce and arugala never make it very far.

Kelly since your temps are in the 80's I would imagine you can plant all your summer veggies earlier, no?

By the way check this video, it is very interesting and thought you might like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYv7xkc1DsY

The beds in the video are so nice. I'd love to have them in my front yard and I can't imagine a HOA objecting to something so neat. I can see that if I moved to the desert, I'd have everything to learn as though I'd never had a garden before. They said they could never make enough compost and that's an understatement. I don't think they have weeds either. Kelly does that desert soil/sand have any fertility or do you have to add everything to make it grow?

dl - I did not grow Kale or Collards this year, but my Chard is still going gangbusters. I do have a couple squares of lettuce that are protected and are still doing ok, but will probably cut it today or tomorrow as we are warming up fast. Last year was a weird year - that hot in April, then cooler in May, then hot through the end of October! Then this warm wet winter - strange...

c - my 'maters and peppers have mostly been in the ground since mid-February. I did plant out some more this past weekend plus some eggplant, plus sowed seeds for pole and bush beans and ornamental corn (strawberry popcorn). All my summer squash was sown a week or so ago so those should be popping up. Have a sweet potato started for slips. All I really have left to sow seeds for are pumpkins and melons. I grow small varieties as I garden in the square foot method as some of you know...

twiggy - our soil is pretty fertile, but there are a few issues to deal with. Our soil is alkaline (around 8.5 pH) and very high in salt for the most part. We also have this stuff called caliche - ever put your shovel down to dig a hole and meet resistance at the first push - lol? This stuff if not found and dug out will inhibit drainage - not good. That is why I garden in raised beds and made my own soil mix. You have to amend a lot with compost and soil sulfur and ironite to try and create that ideal sandy loam. Raised beds are easier for me, although I do have some areas of ornamentals and shrubs that are very nice soil but that was over years of adding compost and mulch - lol.

Seems like you are about a few weeks ahead of us in planting. I'm putting in my corn, squash, cucumbers, melons, tomatoes, amaranth and beans this week. I remember in school discussing how arid and semi-arid soils hold fertility better due slower decompostion from lack of rain. Our pH is also alkaline But not as much as yours - around 7. The one good thing about soil with slightly higher pH is less disease. We have sandy soil in this part of the valley. Farther south they have clay and hardpan (somewhat like chalke in that inhibits drainage).

Next year, you may want to try kale and collards. They both can make it through most of the summer without bolting, even in 100 degree weather. I'm also growing amaranth, New Zealand spinach and Malabar spinach to have some greens past the end of April.

Talking about cost effective gardening, I took a couple of suckers from my Galina tomato plant, and placed them in water, its been about a week and look at all the root already. I am planing to do some fall tomatoes as well, and I am thinking that if I like the varieties I am planting right now that instead of starting the tomato plants from scratch that taking the suckers and rooting them is definetely a better idea.

How that is wonderdul kelly, it looks like you have a wonderful variety of veggies this spring, I kind of ran out of room in mine so hopefuly I'll be able to get more raise beds soon. I almost planted corn myself but decided to wait until I get at least another raise bed, since I really wanted to plant lots of the bush beans that I had, my thinking on this is that corn is still fairly cheap at the stores so I can plant beans instead since they are also a wonderful source of nitrogen for the soil, plus the beans you can process and freeze as well.

Hey Kelly & Carminator1 & Twiggy and everyone else...
Any ideas on why my WS tomato seedlings aren't taking off yet? I potted up to 16 oz. Solo cups 2 weekends ago and have seen very little growth. This past week I topped off the cups (I only potted them up halfway in the cups to deep root).

But, they're not taking off, even in the cups...

I did notice one interesting thing. The majority of the Solo cups are sitting in the open on the top of the spa. I had bought one 18qt-size Sterilite container and put almost 1/3 of the seedling cups in it sans the lid. Last week as I examined, the seedlings in the Sterilite container were "fatter" than the ones in the drip trays with no covering. I thought those would be fatter, having to contend with the wind and breezes.

Thoughts?

Linda

Have you taken the soil temp in the morning and late afternoon? It could be too low. Tomato seedlings won't take off until the soil temperature averages at least 70. Are they outside? When the night time temps are below 45 it is really hard on seedlings. Make sure to bring them in or cover them at night. Also, how much sunlight are they getting? It should be at least 8 hours of direct light a day. My guess, though, its the soil and air temp more than the sunlight.

My apologizes if you have already taken care of these things. It is just that these are the most obvious problems.

Hi Linda - dl is correct. If your temps are not up there the maters will just do, well, nothing. As long as they look otherwise healthy you'll be alright;o) One thought - are you bottom watering? Could be the ones in the open the water is evaporating faster than your babies can take it up? If you're not bottom watering then my theory is out the window - lol...

dl - this is my 2nd year growing Red Malabar Spinach and I love it! Plant it once and that bugger reseeds everywhere. I have it popping up all over and was able to share seeds with a bunch of peeps who weren't local to pick up babies. It produced well into summer for me and then came back from the roots when it cooled off about late October.

Nice seedlings c!

DL & Kelly,
Yeah, I think you're right about the soil temp and air temp. That makes sense. The bin is deep, protecting them from the blowing (chill) air. Also, the heat probably is building up in there during the sunny days.

I bought another Sterilite container and will put the other seedlings in it to see if this will help warm up the soil in the cups.

Thanks!

Linda

I agree. Even on a bright sunny day with warm temps, I feel cold out in the wind. The five I have against the S side of my garage are growing like crazy because they're protected from the wind. I took the row cover off 3 days ago and they're still happy.

I agree as well, temps can be reason as well as how much light they are getting, this winter almost everything in my garden seem to take forever to produce, even the lettuces took longer than advertize.

Kelly a quick question about the Malabar spinach, how does it take for the seeds to sprout? I planted about 5 malabar seeds I got from a trade about 2 weeks ago and they have not sprouted at all, I am wondering if they are still good or maybe do they just take longer to sprout.

Locakelly, when you say peeps do you mean chickens? I was hoping that was good foder for poultry. Do you know what nutrients it has? I'm planting in partial shade. Heard that was okay.

Carminator1,
In this case, I believe Kelly's use of peeps is the slang for "people". And, sometimes peeps does mean baby chicks...but not in this case!

Thanks for the clarification Linda - yipper, peeps in this case is people - lol...

dl - I think the MS is packed with nutrients and the real peeps would love it. Chickens love greens period - lol.

C - MS seeds have a hard coating and some sites will suggest soaking seeds in water overnight or scratching the seed skin before planting to improve the moisture absorbing process during germination. The seed germination rate is said to be relatively low and it is suggested to sow slightly more seeds than you need, though in practice I have not found this to be the case. My guess is that they will sprout when it warms enough for their liking. I have them sprouting all over my beds and in my compost pile now that it is warming up outside. They sprout where the berries fall off the vine too eventually. To store the seeds I remove the berry (messy messy messy) and then dry them, but in nature they fall and sprout where they want.

Thank you Kelly, I actually have them inside the house in top of the fridge so I'll keep an eye on them. I definetely did not know about the hard coating so I did not even soak them prior to planting.

And I forgot to mention it as I never intentionally start the seeds - lol...

I have so many volunteers that pop up everywhere!

Dbailey, I have one bed that has RKN, I accidentally introduced them a couple of years ago. I have added large amounts of organic matter (there is a fungus that grows only in compost that kills them), planted marigolds, corn (a trap crop for nematodes) and resistant varieties of tomatoes. So far the tomatoes look great. There are less knots on the roots of plants I pull out of the ground than there were last year.

Calallily, don't you just hate that. I will never my starts from the store ever again. Thank you for the advice. I just double-dug some of my beds and gradually adding more and more OM. Some of it is homemade compost that still had some visiable fungus on it when I dug it in. Hopefully, that helps keep it down. The bagged organic fertilizer i'm using has a fungal inoculant. I have to look it up, but I think it is a similiar fungus that should also help. Also, intercropping marigolds in all beds. The soil is a sandy loam that drains well. I'm hoping that this will also be a deterent to more nematodes.

So for what you guys are saying marigolds will deter nematodes? I actually bought some this past weekend because they were on sale for 25 cents a pack, and I planted them with my tomatoes, I have heard really good things about marigolds, plus my little girl loves flowers as well.

Also what I did to combat BER is to place some powder milk on the soil at the roots when I planted my tomatoes, I will be watering with powder milk mixed with water as well and see if this will do the trick.

How about cost effective ways of protecting strawberries from birds? I have a strawberry jar with plants that are finally starting to produce (yeah!). And I'm planting a couple of hanging planters in strawberries this year, too.

Is there something from around the house that I can use to cover it and protect it from birds, while still letting in light and air? I'd rather not have to buy anything if I can make do. Looking for ideas.
Thanks.

Any type of netting or spun cotton/polyester should do. Even old, worn sheets might work. I have row cover over mine to keep out really big birds. I've used netting in the past with success. You can buy a roll at most home improvement or hardware stores for not very much. PVC pipe or thick baling wire can be used to prop it up. I bought 12 gauge multi-purpose wire to construct hoops.

Bridal illusion or even nylon netting from Joannes (Handcock Fabrics) works well and is cheap something like 59cent/yard. Just string it over like you would the row cover stuff.

Yehudith

GREAT IDEA!

Now. When do you use this stuff other than for strawberrie protection? Could I use it to cover my hoop house and protect my eBuckets from those moths that lay eggs and the dreaded Leaffooted Stinkbugs?

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

Also, someone else just suggested hanging an old CD on the hanging baskets. Has anyone tried that? Just curious. Seems like the nylon netting or other cloth would be more foolproof. I'm suddenly thinking of maybe a sheer curtain panel - I might have an old one of those around somewhere...

I was thinking of using nylon netting over my squash plants this year to deter the SVBs.

Steph,
Keep me posted on your idea. I'm growing squash for the 1st time. Have you started seeds yet or direct seeding?

Linda - I direct seeded all my squash on the 6th. Most are just now peeking through...

Linda, I started my seeds inside, they take very little time to grow, in fact I read that you can start them 2 to 3 weeks max because they don't like to be in containers for a long time and they can get rootbound, they seem to be doing fine with this still chilly weather.

I have a question though, have you guys planted your tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers out yet, I actually planted all my stuff already, but I am wondering if this cold nights are going to kill my plants, we are having chilly nights still, I have been covering my peppers but not my tomatoes or cucumbers because I was told they can take chilly temps, plus I have staked all my tomatoes so the platic cover can't cover them anymore. I am getting a little tired of having to cover my peppers everynite, so my question is, will peppers survive temps as low as low 40's?

I'm going to sow my seeds inside soon. With all this cold weather, it's really messing everything up. It's supposed to get close to freezing this weekend. Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

I know Stephanie how you feel, I am now wondering whether or not I should have waited a little bit longer. I decided to plant everything according to the farmers almanac so hopefuly temps wont be too bad.

My plants have been out for a while. Carmen, peppers and tomatoes can take close to 32° for short periods of time. Any colder than that or extended cold you need to cover them. If they've been out a bit and getting established they can handle the 40s. They'll pout but they won't die.