About pictures In Files

I have been reading the threads with comments about copywrite and that DG has the right to use our submitted photos any way they wish basically. Am I understanding that right?
I don't have a problem with a person using my photos to help them in their own garden. But when it comes to using my photos for business that is another story.
I wouldn't say any of my photos are 'high quality' but that is beside the point.
Is there a way to take submitted photos off of Plant Files? I couldn't find anything?

There isn't an easy way to remove photos at this time (it's a manual process, one-at-a-time) and for that reason, we have always maintained that we won't remove photos en masse.

I would ask you to work with us here. The statements I made in that thread were based on how we have always handled photo rights: if they are your photos, they are yours, period. We have "gone to bat" numerous times for members who find their photos purloined and used elsewhere, bringing the site's clout to bear and demanding that the photos be removed from the offending site.

We aren't going to sell your images, and we aren't going to start using them to sell anyone's products or plants. They do help promote the site to visitors and members who enjoy looking at them; it is part of how we build this community, through sharing what we know.

I can offer you my personal assurance that I have absolutely no reason to believe that we are going to suddenly switch gears here. In fact, my understanding is that Internet Brands' copyright policy is perhaps more clearly defined than ours, and I think we will see an update to ours (that spells out your rights and ownership) more clearly than the current AUP does. But these things take time - new wording has to be reviewed and communicated to the membership, and we have to change some programming code to actually change the page where the policy is displayed.

yes, but the 'we' you refer to is no longer you.

No offense, but your personal assurance doesn't hold a lot of water now :)

I will not post any more photos until I see a more clear user agreement in WRITING, not just 'assurances'.
And I would encourage that choice to other members that are concerned about where their photos may end up.

Besides that, if it is 'my' photo, and I have the option to post it, I should have the option of removing it at any time at my discretion.
That should go for any user.

I understand your concerns. Truly I do, but I am still the "we" - I'm still here, as an administrator.

I appreciate you being here Terry. And I do believe this will be taken care of. But like Frillylily, I'm going to hold off on adding any more photos until the AUP is changed.

Joy

Joy, thank you for the kind words, and for your patience. I understand your reticence. I am just really sorry that the issue came to light the way it did - it looks like something we should have taken care of a while back, so there wouldn't be any doubts or concerns. Hindsight is always 20/20 ;o)

You have my word that I will do my best to get the language clarified ASAP, and Melody and I will continue to be advocates for the DG community as we move forward. I think it's safe to say that all of us want you to have absolute confidence in how the site is being maintained, but we know that will take some time to get there.

Someone just pointed this thread out to me. You all know I was very concerned all weekend about this very issue. I just went on and on about it on this forum, I was so distressed. LOL That thread went poof so I am glad you brought this up again FrillyLily for I am sure lots of people are concerned as you and I are.

Without me knowing about this thread, earlier today Terry and I were discussing this very issue and all my concerns.

I am now sure that Terry understands our concerns and that she is going to do all she can to get it fixed for us in writing. And if she can't she will tell us.

I too thought of pulling all my photos over the weekend but I am going to wait to even broach such a drastic solution till I am told the written policy will not be changed to protect us.

I love PFs and just love everyone's contributions and sure do not want to stop being a part of it.

I too will wait to post any more photos to PF, hoping that if some of us do this it will push IB to hurry and fix the written policy to protect us all.

So the good news here is that Terry gets it, is on our side and will make this her priority.

I realize IB just bought DG and they no doubt need time to see how DG works. They are aware there is a big problem now so at least that is a start. After talking to Terry, I am so hopeful that it will all be resolved in writing to be fair to us and to protect our rights to our own photos!

So I am willing and hope others are too, to give them some space to get their bearings and let Terry have some time too to work her magic for us before we start dismantling PFs.

Same here. I said on the now deceased post that I was holding off. Any photos that I have been posting on threads have had text on them. I was a bit distressed though that I dmailed Michael asking him to at least post that there will be absolutely no sales or non-DG use of photos. This would reassure us for the interim until the new policy is in effect. Unfortunately, he has not replied.

I know first hand how Terry will "straighten out" anyone that uses our photos with out our permission.

I saw one of my pictures...not a plant...as you know I never have plant pictures worth stealing ...on someones website...
Terry contacted the person and it was removed immediatly..Had the person asked my permission...I would have given it freely. Jo

One of the reasons I didn't submit photos to plant files was that I read the policy and didn't feel 100% comfortable with it. (Other reasons were things like not having enough time . . . nothing to do with the site or its policies.)

I've always wanted to submit what photos I have, though. When the policy changes, will we get a d-mail or otherwise be prompted to read the new policy, instead of searching it out? I'm not trying to rush anyone; I just want to make sure I don't miss the announcement when it's made.

Well I have lots of photos I could download for plantfiles, some that don't have photos there at all yet.
But I will just wait and see what happens with the policy.
I guess I didn't see the thread that went 'poof' lol
I know someone can come on and 'steal' a photo and maybe DG can pursue that and fix it, maybe not. I know when I post photos on the internet I am risking having it 'stolen'. I guess that doesn't bother me as much as the company that owns DG would be able to 'steal' my photo for their own benefit, sounds like without even my knowledge, and for profit. Maybe the wording wasn't intended to be defined in that way, but it does seem to say that, at least to me. For some wordiness, of course the photo is still 'mine' (whatever that means?) just that DG can use it in any way they like... ?
I too love the plant files, use it very regularly and it is one of the reasons I like DG so well. I would love to add more photos to it later, but for now, along with alot of the other features here, I just want to sit back and see what happens. I just wondered if there was a way to delete your own photo submissions, because I couldn't find anything to do it. But I am technologically impaired pretty much!

I have the same concerns and had already contacted Terry about it. I will be very interested in knowing the policies as I had also requested to have my pictures removed. I haven't contributed as much as Kell and others (probably about 700 + with those added to the bug files), but would like an assurance that my photos will not be sold or used without my permission.
I already had a problem with someone using my pictures on Ebay without my consent. Had it not been for a very nice DG member that alerted me and to the help from Terry I would have not know what to do. I would hate to have that happen again. If people ask my permission I have no problem with letting them use it as long as they credit the photos to my name. I've done that many times when people have asked as well as sold a few.
I added all those pictures out of love for DG and to help others with ID, with the changes here I want to make sure that my copyright will be respected.
I have over 1000 photos waiting to be added, some quite rare and unique that are not in the PF. Will not add anything unless I feel comfortable with the new policy.
I do feel strongly that we should have an option to remove pictures since we are the owners of them.

I will be keeping an eye in the next month for that change and I hope that is fair to all of us.

well the thing is WE do not own the site, and even if the policy issue is resolved, who is to say DG will not be sold again in 2 or 3 years or whenever? There will always be the next company to wonder about--what will *that* policy be?

I think users should be able to delete ANYTHING they add.

I agree with you Frilly.

I hope that the new owners realize that the longer they delay in answering members concerns about copyright, privacy, etc. the more concerned we become.

This concern is going "to go poof" like certain threads and comments have .

I can't see any company (now or in the future) doing anything to jeopardize the Plant File's growth. There are too many people saying that Plant Files are what brought them here in the first place. I think we need to give them some time to fix this. I feel confidant that they will.

Joy

GardenQuilts, I was typing while you were posting. IB did respond to this issue. I just can't find that post now. MiguelIB posted a link to one of their other sites to show what their photo policies looked like. It did look more like what we are asking for.

Yes, he did, but he also said that until the policy is changed, the current policy, as written with its potential problems, is in effect.

Thanks, joy, I missed that post.

im with everyone else here.

right now no one knows what ib is gonna do. i was fine with Dave having my pictures because we all know him and trust him. ive been here a long time and knew things were safe.

i dont know IB and i dont know what they gonna do so how am i to feel safe as others when no one knows whats gonna happen now that Dave is truely gone?

IB can do what they want its their site but my pictures were posted to Daves Garden Not IB!! so with that said I wont be posting pictures anywhere with the fact in mind I dont know whats gonna happen and whop to trust as the one i did trust IS GONE.

and i miss the fact that Dave used to jump in here and talk to us all the time. IB has only made a few posts. that makes me un easy too.

Terry i appriciate all you do and always have no doubt but right now IB holds the ball and in the end its their choice what happens.

We are keenly aware of this issue and I think everyone wants to get the AUP language clarified as quickly as possible. Presently we're working on several issues to get other things moving along (getting the writers' paperwork in place, etc.)

FrillyLilly, I understand (completely) your point about wanting to be able to remove your photos, but the system was not designed that way and it will take some changes to the programming to make that possible. It's a technical problem more than a philosophical one.

Terry I got your messgae from my other thread but it doesn't answer my question and as there is no reply box I assume you have locked the thread. So I am repeating the question and its logic here. I opened a new thread, having already read this one because I wanted a straight and simple answer and this thread is long, skirts all around the subject but doesn't answer the question.

Exactly how does a person remove their images from plantfiles/bugfiles etc? My logic is as follows.

The value of DG to IB is in the revenue it gains from advertisers.
Advertisers use the site because a large number of people(not members who can turn the adds off) are drawn to the site to visit the huge databases.
Without the databases, the visitors wouldn't come in the first place.
The databases consist of privately owned, copyright, pictures which were never paid for, they were "loaned" to Dave by their owners to help build his site.
If IB are going to make money out of my images, and they are, then they should at least offer to pay for their use and they haven't.
They are trading on my, and others, good will and I for one don't trust them.

I will not be renewing my subscription in July and when I leave I will want to take my images with me.

How do I do that?

At this time, there isn't any way to remove your own photos - the way the system is set up, they are imbedded into threads and the various 'Files (PlantFiles, BugFiles, BirdFiles). An administrator *can* remove an entire post (which also removes the photo) or photos uploaded to the 'Files - it's a one-at-a-time, manual process. We have always maintained the position that we don't remove images en masse because it is not feasible with our small admin staff.

I understand your concerns, but I hope you'll take the next few months to see what happens, and give us a chance to prove ourselves to you.

When we (as members) upload images here, it's really a two-way street because the site provides the bandwidth to host them and display them for you and others to enjoy.

Many of our members have been contacted by companies willing to pay to use their images in magazines, books, and plant tags; DG provides a showcase for some great pictures to be noticed and recognized. And for all of us, DG has played the role of a free photo hosting site for your journals, blogs, etc. (those features are available to non-subscribers as well as subscribers.) We have vigorously pursued and defended members' copyrights when photos have been used without permission.

I hope that answers your questions, and alleviates some of your concerns. if not, please let us know what questions or concerns we need to address.

Those who do not realise it, I should point out that nothing is any different in terms of using photos than when the site was bought out by Name Media. That was not Dave's doing, but came with change of ownership even though Dave was still in charge of running the site.

I was aware when I first started putting pics in Plant Files that they would remain there, but I was happy to do that as it was a good way to store my own pics as well as help build a database. A little give, a little take. I also want to say that I was not a subscriber when I started to put pics in Plant Files, I had no idea what the site would be like.

Many here do not seem to be aware of past policies. The information on any site is always there to be read, and one should always make themselves aware of it, that is your own responsibility.

I stopped putting pics in Plant Files when I disagreed with subscribers being paid to write articles on DG, and were able to use pics which we had put here for free. I did put pics of insects in Bug Files too, I took some flack from some for requesting at least acknowledgement of the ownership of a pic of mine which had been used in an article which I found disagreeable. While the owners of the photos took much time in taking and editing the pics, as well as trying to identify the insects or plants, there was now a situation where writers could use these for payment. Writers who were also subscribers. Many others contributed to the site much more than some writers did with daily involvement helping to identify plants, insects, or just helping others with their gardening knowledge.

You have the choice. You just need to be aware of the terms and conditions, and that is the responsibilty of each and every one of us.

This message was edited Feb 10, 2010 2:22 PM

Its not the photos in the threads that concern me, they were shared with friends and can certainly remain so. It is those which make part of the databases. Those ( not particularly mine - all of them) are what make the site a valuable commercial commodity. That at bottom is why IB bought it and didn't just set up its own.
The process has left me feeling dirty and used , a bit like a slave must have felt when sol; Transferred Willy - Nilly to a new master and I would like to withdraw my interest.

For me it was not a two way street - I run my own site and can host anything I want there. I have also sold images but not via DG, it was never about that it was part of belonging to a community which I respected. I have lost that respect for it and that is not going to come back easily.

I renewed this time after some heavy persuasion from friends, despite the changed ownership because Dave was still at the helm and was always approachable. The situation has changed again and now its pure commerce I'm just not interested anymore.

What's "pure commerce" about it? This is the same site we had a month ago. With the same policies!

I'm going to Unwatch.

Again.

Yes, please let's not let this thread go the way of the others. We all now know that that language was always there. I never read it. If I did, I would have asked about it and Dave would have addressed it. I am sure of that. I am pretty confident that all will be well. I am just waiting out of an abundance of caution.

Yes it is the same site, with the same policies but the new administration may interpret those policies differently, and enforce them differently.
And so forth when DG is sold again, which will happen sooner or later probably.
Terry I understand that photos cannot be removed at this time, I am ok with that, right now. My question is really, does IB have any plans to change the system to where photos can be deleted by the user that submitted them, in the future (soonish) ?

Thanks, Terry!

Hey everyone.

I just wanted to follow up on people's concerns here.

We have absolutely no intention to sell people's photos that they've placed on here - regardless of where they reside on the site.

We've never done it on any of our sites and I don't have any intention to start doing something like this now. In fact, as we run multiple sites that cater to photographers, I've learned a ton about copyright and artists' rights and have built those other sites to guard and protect these important issues. I expect to do the same here.

We will be changing the AUP, however it takes some time to run through our legal team, figure out all the nuances, submit it back here for comments and then get it up. And in the meantime we're working with all the contractors/writers on the site, learning the code, making some core back-end changes so that we can complete some architecture/server changes in the coming weeks, working with Terry and Melody to identify other improvements that can happen, etc. (at least all the things on the plate keep me out of trouble).

The Plant Files and all the photos within them is just a fantastic resource and a critical part of DG's success. We will not be doing anything to harm that.

Well said, Michael...Good to see you checking in for us. Jo

Thanks, Mike.

this is certainly good news and i truly hope that it allays the fears of all concerned. it's what i suspected all along. i'm keeping the faith throughout, no matter what concerns and fears rear their ugly heads in the future.

another thing to think about is that while everyone, anytime, is free to post (and we don't want it any other way), we should think about giving admin a break once in a while so they can concentrate on getting these very things accomplished that everyone is so worried about. all i'm saying is that unless you have a question that terry/melody/michael didn't just answer, go play on dg for awhile and have a little fun!

Thank you Michael. I'm going to stop worrying and go enjoy the rest of the site now. I trust this will all be resolved in time.

Joy

Just a little input: Most of the images are resized to 800x600 (landscape ones) when you post them. The companies I sell photos to needs LARGE, full size, high resolution images, these places have no use for small 800x600 images, and they sure won't pay for them.
I wouldn't worry about DG "selling" your images. They are too small.
Just make sure you keep them small, put a watermark on them, or transparent text.
There is always the chance someone steals one for like, EBay no matter where your images are online.
We will see what comes of this, just thought the image size issue will ease some stress.
Sandy

Not true, Sandy. Found a number of my 800X600's being used to sell plants on vendor websites.

To say we will make the people remove the photo after they steal it isn`t much assurance. I had to take matters into my own hands and begin watermarking and a mean watermark as well because the theives were relentless to take whatever they wanted and crop and shop out the marks.

That is great Michael. I can't wait till you guys change the offical written policy! We will be waiting!

I thought that was true too Sandy but it depends on what they want the photo for. If it is for a magazine article or print they want the bigger photos but if for an online purpose or a plant tag etc. a little one is fine. Places ask for the biggest ones so they have the option to use them for a variety of sales.

Recently I sold a photo from years ago, a small photo and from an older camera with few MPs. I could not even find the original without my copyright. I was told no worry they would just take the one from PF and they had a program to take off my copyright.

I hope this gets resolved soon for my photos are burning a hole in my computer just wanting to get out! LOL