straw or mulch for winter?

Hi all, I was wondering if it's better to use straw or mulch around my plants for the winter in zone 5...I have read to use straw around irises. What about roses and other shrubs? I don't have any leaves in my yard, so those are out. Any input would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Would you have to buy whatever you decide to use?

I use mulch myself, I like the way it breaks down over time. There's not much straw around here. I would think straw would be lighter around the more tender plants though.

Just my 2 cents.

oh yeah, too late to grow it ;)
might buy some straw bales anyway for halloween....if I can reuse them all the better

Watch out for weeds in straw. That is a big shortcoming when using straw.

Lynnie, you can buy pine straw. No weeds in it. Or, if you can find it, oat or wheat straw will be grass and weed free. If you can get bales of the hybrid hay, like, costal bermuda or allisha it won't have viable seed or shouldn't.

ok the farmers won't look at me like I'm a crazy city girl asking what kind of straw it is? not that I'm NOT a crazy city girl, I just don't like people looking at me funny ;)

They will think you are a lady in the know....for your irises, use straw. it doesn't hold moisture as much as mulch does, so won't promote crown rot as readily. Also, it is lighter and can be placed over the top of tender plants without crushing them down.

I really don't know where to get straw around here. I would have to research it. But I saw some beautiful mulch at Lowe's, compressed red cedar. It was light as a feather. Like someone used a plain on some narrow wood and it turned into curls. Very nice but nearly twice the price of other mulch, which I am afraid will be too heavy for some of my plants. But surely I can find some of that nice straw.

A lot of nurseries carry bales of pine straw and also as we get closer to Hallowe'en they start adding small bales of hay. The pine straw in bags is run through a shredder and would not work as well as the whole needle straw for protecting plants. One bale of pine straw would more than likely cover your entire planting area. It also helps keep the weeds from settling in over the winter.

Should I be picky about the type of straw it is and get one of those Jim suggested?

yikes hay and straw are different? a nursery near me has some square bales for $5/each...I don't know if it's hay or straw.

ok I just learned...hay is food, straw is bedding.

This message was edited Sep 26, 2009 7:08 PM

You could always ask if it is straw or hay. Or ask for the varieties Jim mentioned. I use pine straw cuz it is cheap and doesn't have any seeds in it. A lot of times fields of grass get cut and bundled and you wind up with weed and grass seeds in your flower beds.

I once asked a guy a worked with for some straw for a duck that always laid her eggs in the corner of my patio. He gave me hay! In my opinion, hay is very skinny twigs with seeds on it, not substantial like straw.

This message was edited Sep 26, 2009 8:24 PM

I don't want grass and weeds in the straw!!!! I have spent enough time pulling them out!

This message was edited Sep 26, 2009 8:24 PM

I hear ya, Venice....no more weeds....grin

Buttttttt will the acid in the pine straw kill certain plants that don't like it?

Acid in pine straw??? Not in the others?
Will it kill only certain plants?

This message was edited Sep 26, 2009 9:57 PM

Got any pine woods in your area, Lynnie? If you have you can probably pick up all you need for free. What I use to do before I got old, fat and lasy.

plenty of pine woods...you mean pick up the needles? ouchy *grin*

Flowers,the pine straw doesn't contain enough acid in this state to make any difference. It takes tons of it breaking down over the years to make any significant pH change. Not to worry, Venice, won't hurt your plants.

Lynnie, a good leaf rake and any garden glove is enough to protect ya...but I find the bits of pine cone to be far more painful than the pine needles...we have two huge pines in the back yard and the neighbors on either side have a pine in their front yards....right next to property line on both sides....I claim all the pine needles for my garden.

I am with you Jim....free mulch....yea.

Moon

Moon, are you saying pine needles are just as good as straw for winter mulch? or just for regular mulching during the year.

I use them in the winter to protect tender perennials from frost by lightly spreading them over the top of the plant. In the spring, we rake it out and run the lawnmower over the old needles and add them back into the bed as root mulch. It is not necessary to chop them up in the spring, but since I pull the mulch back to add compost to the bed, it is just an easy way to put it back in the bed....grin

I finally found some good info for zone 5. We are suppose to put down mulch AFTER the ground is frozen! I will add 2 clips I found.

"The purpose of the mulch is to keep the soil uniformly cold after it has become frozen, eliminating alternate freezing and thawing and the resulting soil heaving. The best time to apply a mulch is late November or early December after 2 or 3 episodes of temperatures below 20F. Winter injury is most common in poorly drained soils."

"Once the soil is frozen, sometimes well after Thanksgiving in Zone 5, apply a layer of organic mulch 8" to 10" deep over the crown of your roses. The purpose of this protection is not to keep the plants warm, (You'll never accomplish that!) but to keep the ground frozen. Alternating cycles of freezing and thawing causes plant to heave, breaking roots, often completely exposing them to the drying brunt of winter."

Good info, Venice....I am so far from ever having the ground freeze here. I am sure others will benefit from this.

Well, I have no idea that you had to wait until the ground was frozen!!! I always thought you put mulch down so plants didn't cold or affected by frost! Not in Zone 5!

What do the worms do during winter when the ground is frozen or a worm bin is frozen?

Well, who wants to go outside and mulch in November or December in zone 5? Too cold around here.

My question is would the ground still freeze under the mulch if done before that? And if so, then does it really make a difference?

Smiley, don't really know for sure! Look up the New York Extension Service on the computer. You will be able to find a location then an email and phone number closest to you.

Next: This is about worms when the ground freezes!

“They burrow beneath the ground below the frost line and overwinter. Their body slows down, but they don’t hibernate, and in the spring they move back up to the surface.”

In Indianapolis the frost line is at 48". And my worm bin is only 16" deep! Are they going to freeze and die??? I am going to call my extension service tomorrow before I do anything else.

It takes longer for the ground to freeze if it is heavily mulched and you do run the risk of having smaller plants "heave" as the ground heats and refreezes. An inch or two of mulch isn't going to make that great a difference, but if ya add too heavy a layer too early, then you can wind up losing stuff. You pick a sunny day and work in the afternoon....grin

Venice, here is some info on winterizing worm bins .

http://www.homecompostingmadeeasy.com/wormcomposting.html

http://www.earthworksboston.org/replicate/A_Vermicomposting.htm

If you are expecting a hard freeze, set the bin inside for the night. You can use straw or hay to help insulate the bin and put it in the most protected area outside.You can throw a piece of plastic over it to protect from wind . Hope this answers your questions. In the ground, the worms just go below the freeze line in the ground, so you could turn your worms loose in your garden and add more to the bin in the spring. Just think of all the goodies they would have to eat in your bin come spring....grin

I only do a couple inches, and haven't lost anything, so I'm probably safe.

Venice, that sounds like a good suggestion from Moon for your wormies, to let them loose and be free!! be free!!

The ground is frozen solid here for about 3 months!!! And I certainly am not bringing the worms inside when the temperature is below 40 degrees! A good 4 months!!!

So, I am NOT having a worm bin!!!! So that's that!!

But for a couple bucks you can have one for 8 months of the year and a super healthy garden come Spring from the ones you turn loose in the Fall....it is all about trade-offs, Venice. Don't get discouraged.

set them free, Venice, set them free.

Anyone remember 'Born Free' ? (( El-l-l-sa El-l-lsa ))

LOL !!! Things could be frozen at 16" deep, especially in a separate bin, by Dec. 1 here !! So I would only have them for 2 months before they went to worm heaven!!!

And I am not doing compost because of the bugs. I am going to just dump some bad dirt on top of the compost I have and be done with it!

And I am not discouraged, I just can't do what I wanted to do. And that is just fine! You have helped me with thorough research and doing it just doesn't work here and in the garden area I have.

Smiley, I haven't gotten any worms yet, thank goodness or I would set the free!!!

born free, as free as the wind blows....
hahaha I remember it Smiley....

I truly feel that worms belong outside in the ground. Also, I don't think I'd be outside in 20 degrees mulching plants....I have NEVER seen anybody on the East Coast do that lol yikes. Brrr!

Venice you and Trina will be happy to hear that I got the seeds packaged. Should be in the mail tomorrow....I'll confirm that tomorrow.

Thank you so much!!! I probably will be next week before I get yours out.

Venice you don't owe me anything!
haha I was on the OTHER thread wondering where this post was...maybe I should lay down, probably not over my cold yet.

Lynnie, I have you on my list to send you celosia, coneflower, or moss rose. You still want them, don't you?

good Lord, my memory is SHOT! I forgot. Yes, I'll certainly take some if it isn't too much trouble. Thank you again.
I have way too much going on over here, don't mind me lol

I am just pokey! It is no trouble at all. My head just has to be in that place to do it, you know what I mean?

I sure do, Venice lol no rush