Philosophy 102

That is perfect. It is a solid given in my family, as well, that our parents come to live us when they need to.

But what do you do if your parents don't want to come to live with you, and insist on staying in their home? I would love to have my parents with me but they won't leave so that means I will have to go there.

I am realizing that most of my wishes for my parents are really for me, and maybe I need to separate my needs from theirs.

My parents went through this with their parents and we just reminded them of that. They had them move close to them and took care of them. We always reminded them of this and discussed the possibilities (facts) of our need to keep work and they understood. If there is no prep done I think it would require them to have some concequences for their inability to care for themselves. And when they, happen tell them they are welcome at your home. If they are stubborn I would hire an obnoxious assistant who drives them crazy being around all the time so they are anxious to come to your house. I joking told my dad when he was healthy that I was going to hire a person, who was a nurse, who he didn't like to care for him. I think he was aware that he needed to come to me rather than be in his home or she would drive him nuts.

Sofer LOL I like your solution!

I think it must be hard to find that line between being the caring offspring who want to help and allowing others, including parents, to make their own decisions about how they live and die, especially when it's old age rather than terminal illness that is the cause for concern. For so many people, leaving their home means their lives are over, so they hang on to what feels familiar and gives them meaning. On some level, I can relate to that and understand it.
One of my long time clients, who has been in my Dream Group for 17 years, just left her home and moved into a little apartment in a retirement home. The week after she moved into the place, she ended up in the hospital with a heart attack. She had never had any heart problems, although she has other health issues. She had an angioplasty,, then went to a nursing home to recover her strength. The day before being released back to home, she went to the ER again with heart issues and she was back in the hospital. I feel sure she is ready to die and it will surprise me greatly if she ever goes back to her apartment.

I am planning to drive down to Eugene, pick up my sister, and continue on to our parents' house for Christmas. My kids are all gathering at my oldest son's house and I so wanted to be there, but not this year. I saw them all for Thanksgiving so it's ok, but i'll miss sharing the holiday excitement with the grandkids. My parents live near Nevada City/Grass Valley and it's a wonderful place at holiday time. Old mining towns full of little shops and all decorated with lots of twinkly lights. You can even have a sleigh ride in Nevada City!

A few of my neighbors live in Grass Valley in the winter time.

I can so relate to this difficulty. My grandmother passed recently at 93 and I firmly believe that her decline moved more swiftly because we moved her from her home/neighborhood/church/friend and familiarity to a home closer to my folks where she could get regular care and medical management. It was hard for my Dad to drive downstate for all the Dr. appointments and minor crisis. However, Gma was happy where she was. I find quality is better than quantity and I think Gma would have agreed.
As a result, my folks will get to make the decisions that work for them, understanding that they will be responsible for the outcomes as well. We've talked as a family, I can go back and care for them in N. Michigan with great difficulty to my family. My brother is not able to devote the same time as his kids are younger and his wife isn't very understanding. My folks don't want to move here really. My experience with my Gma made it easier to relinquish the care/management control I am prone to. It did help to talk about our feelings, wants, desires regarding end of life decisions and management though. I'd want the same respect from my kids when my time came, however I would love to go stay with each of my kids if my life allows. Not too sure their significant others will be as willing as they are.
Just my $.02, I'm a ways off from needing to make such personal decisions. Hope everyone has the chance to enjoy family/friends/neighbors or peace and quiet for the holidays!

Ladybug thank you for your post. Your words support my decision to no longer urge my parents leave their home and friends, etc to be close to me. My mother has been very difficult at times during the past few years, to the point that she becomes nasty and no one wants to be around her. We had such a nice visit at Thanksgiving and she was her charming and normal self and that made me think about what might cause her slips into nasty and mean behavior. Now I realize that every time she has been difficult, she is away from home. Visiting me in Portland, on trips, etc. So it is best she remain home for all our sakes!
This is something we will all get through as a family. As we speak, my daughter who lives here in Portland is on her way to stay with my parents until after Christmas. My sister and I will be driving down on Dec 23 for a few days. My daughter is in grad school so has time until classes start again in January. My parents are excited that she is coming and have all kinds of cute little things planned. Bless her for doing this!
I consider your input a lot more that $.02 - thank you!

My Mom is having fun with my dogs and her son and DIL. She gets a call from me when she is home alone when Karen works. But I will be home with her for a whole month when I get home for Christmas. I am looking forward to that time. She has her home in Michigan and we will take her back there this summer for 4 months and my sister and I will be with her all the time. I think that will give her time to see the few friends that are left. She has always wintered with us for years.

The Michigan countryside was my second home when I was growing up. My family had friends there and I loved going to visit them. I learned to swim in a little lake where the shallow water was warm and safe, although you had to avoid the mucky section where there were rumored to be leeches.

I spent my childhood cleaning leeches off my body. Always had a salt shaker to put on them and they jumped off. Michigan was a great place to grow up for me too Holly. I spent my youth peddling my bicycle all over the state and camping in every town in Northern Michigan swimming in every lake and river I could get to. My parents trusted we kids and we knew how to stay out of trouble in our travels. They onlyl had to bail me out of jail once.

Same here.

I agree, Michigan was a great place to grow up. Hunting/fishing/camping/skiing all over. Still call it "home" as my folks live on Houghton Lake.

Fond memories of Michigan - our oldest was born in South Haven. An older couple took us under their wing when we moved there as newlyweds and we always thought of them as our second mom and dad. She was amazed that we would drive all the way there for his funeral. We told her we wouldn't have missed it, cuz it's family. We love to visit it her. About the only place DH really relaxes.

I am glad to visit it and I never miss tthe opportunity to go to the "beach" anywhere from muskegon to '//Sleeping Bear'dunes. Too bad the state has such woes with the auto industry.

I tend to have pretty liberal views of politics and so Huffingtonpost is my home page on my computer. Since I grew up in WI, MI was my next door neighbor. A recent headline on Huffpo was that Detoit's unemployment rate was nearing 50%........... that is so troubling in so many dimensions that I can barely stand it.

I watch the news about health reform in the States and the prospect of moving back there, without strong reform, is pretty much nil at this point. Canada's health care system has its problems, no argument there since I work in that system and see them. But when it has come to my own needs here, I have no complaints and at this age I can't risk losing coverage and neither can my DH, who has a chronic seizure hx.

Ladyfiresign, I also read Huffingtonpost - bleeding heart liberal here! I worked on a project in Toronto and I was completely impressed with the Canadian healthcare system. When we do a medical project we have to crunch a lot of data to calculate needs, futures, trends, etc. I wish we had that system here. It will be interesting to see how the bill being voted on today will change as it goes through the process.

The only place I lived in Michigan was Detroit, when my husband was doing a residency at Detroit Receiving Hospital downtown. They had a "lights out" drill. If they heard gunfire they were to put out the lights and get on the floor. They had to do that several times in the operating room during his 3 year stint there. One of the residents was attacked in the parking lot at night and she beat her attacker so badly with her big cardiology stethoscope that she had to send an ambulance to pick him up. I don't know if any of you remember when a guard carrying a rifle under his coat walked into the hospital and killed countless people - my husband was witness to that. We took a trip through the upper peninsula and it was amazing and like another world. This was all in the early 70s and it seems Detroit has had problems for many years. Ex-husband grew up in Highland Park, when it was nice - oh so long ago!

Portland must seem like a dream world compared to the Detroit of the 60's and 70's.....
I had so hoped to see Detroit's "renaissance" actually come to fruition.....

I was in Cal in college during the 60s, and from there to Detroit. We moved from Detroit to Southern California after John's residency. Many years later when the kids were all out of college except the last one and he was in the Bay area, I moved to San Francisco for a job I couldn't refuse, and then here to Portland, where I will stay. Although I love San Francisco, life in Portland is so much more livable. SF is becoming more and more like New York - too busy, too rude, too pretentious, too much. Portland has such a good community feeling. I think the PNW is one of the most beautiful places on earth.

So will you all be rooting for Oregon in the Rose Bowl?

Since Oregon is not playing Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl they will get my rooting......lol!

Since Cal is not playing Oregon has my rooting as well! I like Wisconsin's fight song.

Raving liberal here, too. I hang out on Huffington Post, as well. But I was born and bred in Alaska . . .

See now, Katie, I would have thought most Alaskans would be raving liberals with the rough and tumble, gold-rushing, danger on the high seas fishing-type history there.......but that leaves me stumped as to why Sarah Palin is so dang popular.......

Actually - she's not so popular among most of the original old-school Alaskans - at least my friends.

Alaskans are general "live and let live", but they also have the "we take care of our own without a lot of fanfare" underlying that. They definitely prefer less government and are always suspicious that others are trying to fetter them. Generally, that comes across as somewhat conservative, but they don't like to be cast in any particular mold.

This need for celebrity rubs many of them the wrong way - it's contrary to what many think and kicks in suspicion about being sold out.

This message was edited Dec 20, 2009 12:31 PM

It flabbergasts me that Sarah P is so popular. I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I went to a neighborhood party last night. It was, to use a phrase from college days, a blast. I love my neighborhood and we all have so much fun together. Everyone was a bit tipsy since no one had to drive, and it was very congenial. We're a mixed group: young families, retired people, singles, the carpenter, the garden designer, the lawyer, the teachers, the non-profit organizer, the ER doc, the group living house, old kids, young kids. It has been so cold and/or wet that we are not walking around so much with the dogs and have not seen a lot of each other, so it was fun to reunite. Over the past year I have become close to one couple living a house away and the husband writes a political blog - he does more research than I have ever seen on a blog. Check it out - perrspectives.com. We all live in old early 1900s homes and they are cozy, especially when filled with friends. It was a lovely evening, and I hope all of you are having lovely holiday times as well.

Sarah Palin for we Independent right leaners is a person who stands for all of the issues that we cherish. Christian values, government that stays out of the control of our daily lives, and she is not a political entity that has accepted the roles of the "way Washington does it". There are two types of thoughts on Government roles. One has a "federalist" view point where the central government determines the way we define our rules (Progressive) and the "States or Local" government who define what their needs are (Republican). This has been the balance that has kept our republic alive for over 200 years. This balance swings every 8 years or so to keep both ideas out of balance. Sarah is now the opposite of Barak who we non-federalists will gather around. I make no recommendation but I "thrill" over her conservative ideals. So that is what makes her so popular.

Although I respect your opinion, Sofer, I am choosing not to respond other than to say have a very happy holiday. If I were to respond with my political views, which my response would require, I am afraid we - or at least me - would be banned from DG! So please have a peaceful merry Christmas. Vive la difference!

I too spoke only theory of political issues. Feliz Na Vidad! And may all of us unite in this holiday of Love and Peace.

I thought a large part of her appeal was that, for better or for worse, she was an individual with beliefs that she had come to herself, rather than being a same-old-same-old, business-as-usual, sound-bite-spouting old white man who represents a strict party platform. Of course, electing a black president wasn't exactly business as usual either.

I loved every minute of the campaign -- there were at least 3 candidates whom I might have considered voting for.

I know we can only gingerly address serious political issues here, and that's OK, because there is no party out there right now that represents me as a person, or even the singular entity that comprises my individually chosen tenets.

amen