Gulf Coast blooms # 3 2009

Second bloom on Mutant.

Rose Silk I guess.

Helena,
Morning Storm is looking pretty Awesome.

BTW
This is a FLAKED - and a gorgeous one at that
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6564288

There is really NO specific cultivar by the name of Carnevale Venezia . . . I PROMISE! *-*
This is only a marketing name for a Flaked Mixture and I think we are making a very big mistake by using this name for something very specific because this MIX is no different what so ever from a very generalized Flaked Mix.

Emma

This message was edited May 18, 2009 10:52 PM

Helena.. it gets worse....i got suttons Kiss Me Quick mix that i believe is the same as the C de V mix.... http://www.suttons.co.uk/Shop/Flower+Seeds/Ipomoea+Kiss+Me+Quick+Seeds+118247.htm

fantastic blooms

edited to add link

This message was edited May 18, 2009 7:22 PM

Helena - Nice flaked I.purpurea here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6564288
which shows that the 'COV' mix contains a range of different flaked patterns...

Colin -Thanks for the photo link here
http://suttons.hostserver1.co.uk/im/pd/FLSIPO20963_3.jpg
which shows a wider range of flaked patterns than the advertising photo for the 'cov' mix...note the different flowers showing thin / broken bands , some wide bands and the bloom in the lower left which is the closer to the 'jamie lynn' type flaked subline
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/211678/

I was unable to locate a Romaji term to describe the flaked variation that produces a white bloom (sometimes having a very pale yellow tinge) or a pale blue often with a small fuchsia throat and so I used the personalized name that Emma 1st used to describe this flaked variation...this type most closely resembles Kyushu strain # 's
http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/strainlist-brandnew/06catalog/pages/1132-0000.html
http://mg.biology.kyushu-u.ac.jp/mg-files/strainlist-brandnew/06catalog/pages/1156-0003.html
and has been described in the professional peer reviewed literature as a variation of the mutable flaked or a-flaked (af) line particularly the aa white
The A/a locus is also characterized by unstable alleles (denoted a* or af) that exhibit pigmented sectors on an otherwise albino floral limb
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13419865

flaked subline in photo C
http://www.nibb.ac.jp/annual_report/1998/image/53.gif
aa -- -- --
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=34378&rendertype=figure&id=F1

Neophytes take particular note of the following stated above :
The link above contains the following very important explanation:
Dashes indicate that the phenotype is dominant and only the dominant allele is therefore indicated
In the aa genotype, for example, the A/a locus is epistatic to the P/p and I/i loci; therefore, the albino phenotype determined by the recessive aa is the same regardless of the state of the other loci.

The above indicates that Dominants are not always dominant to recessives even when Dominants are present because in this case a homozygous set of recessives is dominant over Dominant genes as located in other loci...

Be sure you actually read the description and clearly understand it before you launch any premature criticisms of the material...this is very, very important if saving face and being viewed as credible is important to you...

I had addressed this several years ago , but it was mostly dismissed / ignored and then the beginners version of Dominants / recessives was promulgated by neophytes in place of the much more complicated interactions that are going on in MG's at the loci indicated...this does not seem to be the case in e.g., passionflowers or brugmansias where the genetics are by comparison > virtually child's play...looking forward to the day when someone who breeds these other plant groups can realistically elucidate what is going on in the much more complicated genetics of MG's as the proteins displayed on the pollen surfaces as genetic markers are also more complicated than in these 'other' plant groups...

MG's may not be as ostentatious as brugs , but the genetics are objectively much more complicated...anyone who has not focused on MG's would definitely not be aware of this...and it's frankly not my job / obligation to instruct them...(!)

flaked subline and incomplete dominance
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121428753/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://cel.isiknowledge.com/InboundService.do?product=CEL&action=retrieve&SrcApp=Highwire&UT=000077513000011&SID=3BLjGimpeakP8ojanob&Init=Yes&SrcAuth=Highwire&mode=FullRecord&customersID=Highwire

Epperson B K,Clegg M T - (1987) J Hered 78:346–352.
Epperson B K,Clegg M T - (1992) J Hered 83:405–409.

Dr.Yoneda does list 2 pictorials for different types of flecked as #1 and #2 , but shows only one illustration for the flaked type as #3
http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/asagao/yoneda_db/e/species/flower_pattern.html
despite the fact that there are different flaked sublines...

We are very Thankful to Dr.Yoneda for providing the very helpful (albeit) limited chart that he has placed for reference on his website...

1) following historical accuracy in science

2) following historical precedence - following traditional culti-variety names - where English names have a historical precedence I prefer them to names in other languages because English is the Universal Scientific and colloquial language...despite my reasons for preferring English , where Romaji names exist for the japanese Ipomoea types I have used them and have encouraged others to use them out of respect for tradition and precedence...

Generally - The MG Forum would likely benefit from a thread devoted to variations of the flaked pattern...

We could also use a thread devoted to other aspects of I.purpurea...e.g., who has the reddest I.purpurea...who has the largest diameter I.purpurea...and who (if anybody ) may have colored I.purpurea without the gene for spotting...

The gene for spotting causes the primary folds to have a darker pigmentation as compared to the rest of the corolla limb tissue...most purpurea have darker primary folds which produces the darker star pattern (aka darker mid-petaline / midpetaline bands) most commonly present and the darker colored sections on the primary folds on the 'milky way'
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/143224/
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/197229/

and the

double petaled 'gypsy bride'
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/127767/
which is basically a double petaled version of 'milky way'

Here is an all white single I.purpurea
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/8734/

and when it goes double is produces
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/178629/
with no 'spots'

Here is a rare colored I.purpurea showing no gene for spotting
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/9744/
as compared to the vast majority of blooms on other I.purpurea plants...

Link to post addressing the usage of the Romaji term shibori and sibori
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=6573685

Helena - My apologies is if created a slight 'diversion' on your thread...as this is not the thread to discuss the variations of the flaked sublines to an in depth degree...perhaps I will contribute additional information when I decide to devote a thread to the various flaked sub-lines...

I thought some clarification was indicated and would be helpful...although I usually try to keep any 'technical' comments to a minimum on threads seemingly devoted to photographic displays...I'll gladly move my comments if you prefer no such 'diversions'...


Thanks (!)


Ron


P.S. - For those of you who may not notice (for whatever reason) please take particular note when I use single quotation marks...they are used for a definite purpose...

Familiarity with Set logistics as taught in 5th grade elementary school is fundamental to understanding relationships of group characteristics vis-à-vis individual characteristics and any associated appellations...




This message was edited May 22, 2009 2:13 PM

Excuse me..Jamie Lyn is no more a type than Carnival whatever. It`s Flaked. The name is Flaked.

Edited: Ron, the point of your edited post is understood. I have nothing against names but you still said `type` as if Jamie Lyn was a characteristic. What is confusing is when the rules only apply to big seed companies. The general public cannot pronounce a lot of the technical terms and prefer simple names they can remember. So, I suggest you just come out and say I don`t like carnival whatever because it is a commonly seen commercial name and I prefer Jamie Lyn because it is named after our own private plant breeder Emma`s granddaughter? This would take away all the confusion. I found 'Jamie Lyn' in my mailbox flowers this morning and it is a reversion to a wilder color from a flaked strain I purchased as "Strawberry Swirl"and also it will probably come true from seeds so a name is deserving. When I saw the flower the first thing I thought was,"That looks like Jamie Lyn." though I have never purchased any. It came about naturally on it`s own via genetic drift.

This message was edited May 19, 2009 7:47 AM

Thanks everyone. Ron I do appreciate the info since I'm still new to mg's and do want to learn about them.

wow what gorgeous blooms! I love that mutant..

Thanks Debra. It's still pretty cool here this morning & some blooms that opened late morning yesterday are still open today but the color changed. Pretty neat!

Like this I. nil Pink Surprise.

This message was edited May 19, 2009 7:46 AM

The cold had an effect on the blooms.

I. nil Incredible mix

Dainty Pink Porcelain has not produced any seed pods either.

Lavender LYK stayed opened but turned pink for today! That's all for today!

Those are lovely. Mine are sulking because of the cold nights too.

All my blooms got pulverized from the hard rain we've had since yesterday evening! And it is still raining as I type this. It is supposed to rain to another day! We sure needed the rain but I could've done without the solid 36 hours of rain. LOL! But beggars can't be choosey ...

It is very clear that some people do NOT understand about 'Flaked' Morning Glories, and I recommend that they study them before making any accusations. Besides, Helena's thread is not the place for this discussion. Maybe some day when I have 'time' I will explain all about the Flaked Types

It is called a discussion and is meant to enrich Helena`s thread with quality information. I do understand flaked very well. We need the right descriptive name for the characteristic not flaked flower aka Jamie Lyn that occurs in with the flaked flowers. I know this because I observed it myself. The flaked flowers throw some white ones and also white with the color in the throat.

http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/asagao/yoneda_db/e/species/flower_pattern.html

I think the Jamie Lyn is almost white with a colored throat. The flaked flowers do indeed throw white and white with a colored throat. Perhaps one I have by my mailbox is Autumn Shower because it is nearly white with tiny flecks scattered over it.

Edited:

To add another link:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/760500/

I think the pale blue and pink that occur in these mixes is a dilution of the color. The ones that have three colors white,light and dark streaks can produce either nearly solid dark blue, very light blue, dark pink or light pink. It is a variation that naturally occurs.



This message was edited May 19, 2009 1:51 PM

The cold has affected the color on some of my blooms. This one on Blue Frost.

The other bloom on Blue Frost.

I like the latest blooms on I. nil Pink Surprise, don't know if it's the cool weather or not.

Here's the other bloom on I. nil Pink Surprise.

This is I. nil Plum Surprise affected by the cool weather.

Also I. nil affected by the cold..

Thank you Jackie for Candy Pink. This is the 2nd bloom on it, the first bloom had rain & wind damage. It's dainty & pretty!

These are soooo beautiful!! Here in Vermont my MG seeds haven't even come up yet. Thanks for sharing.

Helenahkh, this is stilll my fave by far
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6529457 ...thanks for all the GREAT posts!!!!!
:D

Helena - Even with your cold snap, your blooms are truly stunning! We've had lots of rain and my MGs are still blooming ... and flopping over under the weight of the rain drops. LOL!

Helena, Nice little Candy Pink bloom. When your weather warms up, the
bloom might increase to a 3 inch bloom. That's what mine did last yr.

I agree with Darren, the large rayed Asuka is one of the prettiest glory's I've ever seen, really special.

Thank you all, had a busy weekend with grandson's school awards and traveling to visit daughter to see grandaughter's dance recital. I missed some new blooms on sat & sunday. Did get some pictures friday morning that I'll post now.

This is 2nd bloom Lav. stripes from what was supposed to be Blue swirl from last year.

Hope this bloom gets better soon.

NOID still just I. nil

Jackie, Candy Pink bloom is getting bigger though the rain did a bit of damage!

A new bloom that isn't what the label says it is but pretty nice!

Again Mutant

Caught a grasshopper thinking about munching on Incredible Blue that is no more!

Rose silk.

Getting nice big blooms on LYK.

A nice bloom on Lavender Chiffon Blizzard!

What gorgeous blooms Helena.

Helena - Wonderful blooms, all of them!!!! Love that Lavender Chiffon "Blizzard" vine!!! And your LYK is lookin' good, too!!! You've got it goin' on in your yard!!!!

I am so curious to know what makes the "blizzard" effect in MG blooms? Maybe Ron will jump on here and educate us ...