removing OR rototilling my pine needles?

I'm adding perennials and annuals underneath five large evergreen trees in my back yard. The branches are lopped off as high as I can reach with the loppers.

My soil is very sandy. And there is a thick layer of pine needles on the ground. I want to amend the soil with compost and peat, and I'm not sure what to do with the pine needles. Do I rototill them in with the compost? or do I remove them first?

also, I need to figure out the right order of the following:

weed kill
rototill
amendment
planting

I've got wild violets which I'm pulling out by hand, but the other weeds ought I roundup, or simply rototill?

thanks for some direction!

I'm at the opposite end of the country and have LOTS of pine trees. We rake the pine needles into windrows and run them over with the mowers, makes great mulch and decomposes faster that way. They make great mulch for azaleas, carnations and other acid loving plants. I don't use weed killer, I pull them out . If you mulch deeply-3 ins. or so- the weeds will be discouraged. If it is real early spring and the weeds haven't gone to seed, you might just rototill them under for soil amendment along with compost and whatevere else you decide to use-like the contents of your paper shredder if you have one! Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Rosehollow,
thanks. so are you advising me to rake them up temporarily, amend the soil (it's sandy, so some top soil, some compost, some 'whatever' and then

mulch the pine needles and apply ON TOP.

I kick myself for not doing that initially when we moved here two years ago. I've stuck stuff in, and amended the planting hole one plant at a time...but it isn't a really great way to do it, now there are areas that I can't really go in with the rototiller.

and where there is wild violet, I'm hand pulling the little buggers, think tilling them would make it worse X1000.

GabbyGrows,

Are you sure you are pulling wild violets and not a wild ginger? Do the leaves have deep lobes on them? Do they look like a lopsided hand? If so, they might be a wild ginger. I have some and just let it run. The flowers are out real early in the season and then it's just the leaves. It just adds some interest to the flower bed. Mine are very low growning, about 3 inches tall.

Rosehollow,
I wish I could figure out how to post a photo! I've got a perfect closeup of those violet buggers, that I showed to a couple of master gardeners, yes, they are wild violets...actually I thought they were ginger, and when I was digging up some ferns from a friend, along came a few gingers that are growing along a fern or two, these violets are smaller, put out the flowers - they ARE pretty, actually I didn't ever want to rid them all, until now they are going crazy and encroaching....I don't mind them behind the wood pile really, but now they're growing within the irises, and popping up all sorts of other places.

really I think I'm trying to figure out how to amend the soil, given there is about four inches of pine needles sitting on top of it all.

Gabby - Please make sure you don't rototill under the tree canopy - you could tear up the feeder roots of the trees, which are close to the surface, & you could end up damaging or even killing the trees. You can add a couple of inches of soil/compost on top of the feeder roots, but not more than that, b/c you could smother the feeder roots. Amending in each planting hole may be the best choice close to the trees. Pine needles make great mulch, as they decompose slowly, and do hold in soil moisture! Good luck! Samantha

I'm with GG on this one. No room under those trees for a tiller. Most I might do is rake out pine needles and loosen up the top inch or so of soil with a garden weasel (a type of inexpensive manual tiller, goes about two inches down). Mulch up pine needles and other such stuff. I would bet that you find pretty good soil under the trees as those pine needles have been there a while. Check it out before you do a lot of unrequired amending. Should amending be required spread about 2 inches of good top soil and work it in with the garden weasel. Plant the area and use mulched pine needles sparingly. You do not want to smother the tree roots. As for the violets, dilegence is the best way to limit them. Dig them out instead of trying to pull. They are, in my experience, a lot like dandelions. If you leave even a small piece of root you will have double the new growth when the root splits and sends up multiple tops in an attempt to survive.

As for pictures the browse button below will take you to your hard drive. There you can look for your file and select it. That should give you and automatic picture post. I have pretty good luck first putting the pics I want to use on my desk top as a short cut. Then I just run thru my desk top icons till I get to the photo. Double click it and wait a second or two till my photo file shows up in the browse window below. Then preview and send. I think the formal instructions are on the home page of DG. Maybe under FAQ. I use a pc so probably a little different with mac/apple. Good luck.

thanks for the caution on the feeder roots, didn't even think about that!

I'll just amend hole at a time, and dig those violets. it's the crazy weeds that are really hard to stay on top of, tho there is lots of pine needles! [sigh]

I'll try to post a photo of the project. it's slow going, but I'm happy I started it. these poor trees were in such poor shape when we moved here three years ago, jsut been whittling away all the dead undergrowth and they're getting happier and happier.