the Codex Alimentarius and the USDA irradiation plans

I realize most gardeners must occasionally wonder whether they want to devote space to vegetables and fruit-bearing plants when they could be growing more strictly ornamental plants, but the sad reality is that if you want to be sure your health-giving, disease-preventing produce isn't irradiated you can't rely on what you buy in grocery stores. From what I've read in Vibrance Magazine, there is a vast international conspiracy to deprive consumers of the raw, enzyme-filled foods that can enhance health and even cure disease because Big Pharma would rather sell drugs to consumers, for obvious reasons. What's really shocking is that the same European countries that forbid the importation of genetically modified crops have permitted the passage of the Codex Alimentarius, a "food code" that specifies that produce should be irradiated. I suppose the Obama administration isn't even aware of what's going on, but the White House vegetable garden is a great step in the right direction.
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I have never been a big believer in conspiracies. I have always felt that fear, greed, and stupidity were enough reasons to account for our lemming like rush toward species extinction... Ed

Hmmmm....sounds like parnoia, but if someone really is out to get you it isn't parnoia.

There's some interesting reading out there on the web about the Green Revolution.

I tell people that if you want seeds, try out the seeds you get from what you buy at the grocery store. I've had some fairly good luck with using seeds from produce bought at major chains that not only grew but provided okay (not great mind you) fruit.

I also think we should be open to the idea of GM food stuff...after all, humanity has been doing it for thousands of years, we just tend to call it cultivars. Think about dog and cat breeds, they didn't get that way on their own. And yes I know, some of the purebreds have big problems. I don't want Monsanto to have a copyright on certain DNA, and it could cause problems, but I see nothing wrong with test plots so long as they are isolated enough to be fairly certain there isn't going to be cross-fertilization.

We're six billion strong and growing....:::shrugs::...I've never taken a horticulture class but have thought about it. The world is getting smaller and more crowded. I don't care if I disagree with the oligarchy/depost/you name it of any nation, they may be total jerks, but I don't want to see some kid starve to death just because their nation has poor leadership.

As a world we need to figure out the biggest bang for our bucks. And on that note it bothers me that so many suburban areas long for that big ass yard just grass and a few flowers, not to mention so many developments practically clear cut acres at a time.

If you have a quarter acre of land you should have some trees and a garden that at the least provides the bees with some food, if not you and yer family.

Sorry, I think politics aren't supposed to be discussed on the message board, and if my post is taken down I won't complain. This is a great site, I just had to step on my soap box for a few mins.

Peace and happy plantings yall.

Thanks for your thoughts. I didn't realize anything smacking of politics was off limits. It's just that I'm trying to become a raw foodist, so I'm aware that this is a very major concern among people who adhere to this lifestyle. Already in California all almonds produced here are required to be irradiated, but they can still be called "raw" on the label. People who want truly raw almonds have to buy imported ones.
I'm sure many people who might read this would consider raw foodism a flaky fringe fad, but it's growing exponentially because of the amazing health benefits so many people are experiencing. Natural Hygiene in particular is gaining a large following, and for anyone who wants to learn more about it I would recommend Googling Dr. Douglas Graham, Frederic Patenaude, and Richard Haeske. I personally met a man who recovered from a "terminal" case of cancer after attending the Optimum Health Institute and detoxing on a raw food diet.

Guosui: I'm almost certain raw food are better, but it's at what cost? I'd love to eat all organic, but as a gardener that doesn't even really fetilize (I prefer using our compost material) I know that it's soooo tough, hence the higher prices. My broc. crop has been basically ruined due to the bugs. And it's not like me or my gf were depending on that to be able to eat.

I should look into the whole irradiated thing though. I don't understand why that would be done other than to make the seed sterile. What's the explination why any Farm Corp. would do that?

Enlighten me, but know I'm of the mindset that I think GM may be the way we have to go once we reach 8 billion souls.

Peace.

neworleansdude - did you know that Burpee now has a seedless tomato? Check this out:

http://www.burpee.com/product/id/111412.do

Hopefully the "powers-that-be" are not working on making even more of our food "seedless".

neworleansdude: I strongly urge you to Google treeoflife.nu/healthrights There you will see the first result on the page clearly explains the Codex Alimentarius, which will go into effect at the end of this year if it isn't stopped. It's interesting that GM foods were also brought up in replies to this thread, even though that wasn't my original point at all, though of course anyone who wants to avoid irradiated foods is also probably concerned about GM "Frankenfoods." As for a "Food Corporation's"
interest in sterilizing seeds, it's obvious that a farmer, especially in the Third World, would rather not spend money on seeds if he can save his own from his crops, and it's no wonder a company like Burpee's would be working on more seedless varieties.
Among other provisions in the Codex Alimentarius is one which would require a home gardener to be licensed to grow his or her own food crops.
As for the billions of people who might need GM foods to survive, according to your way of seeing things, the implementation of the Codex is projected to kill so many millions of people that that shouldn't be a problem anyway. It was originated by the same Nazi types who were responsible for the Holocaust.
Well, if you survived Katrina, I think you can overlook what the bugs are doing to your cruciferous veggies. Kidding aside, I'm surprised that so few gardeners have taken an interest in my thread, but I hope those of you who do read this will investigate the subject a little more. I confess to being a bit confused myself about the difference between "irradiation" and "pasteurization," but I believe they both render a food less healthful than it would be in its raw, unprocessed state, though, as I mentioned before, pasteurized almonds even now are marketed as "raw," and under the Codex GM foods would not have to be labeled as such. Right now the number 8 on a fruit or veggie means it's a GM product, whereas 9 means organic and 4 means conventionally grown (i.e., with pesticides, etc.)

First for Honeybees message: I followed the link and that is disturbing. Look at those costs! 10 seeds for 5 dollars that will produce a fruit but no seeds. Wild. I just traded some basil, cilantro, and marigolds for a half dozen really healthy heirloom tomatto plants with a friend of a friend. Two of them are already flowering.

Second: Guosui, I will look up that site right after I post this. And I've wondered about how they do the four digit numbers on produce at grocery stores but never really thought to look it up. So is it the first or last number when you mention 4, 8, and 9?

Third: I'd really like to hear from one of the 'uber' gardeners or someone with a degree with their take on this thread.

I know Dave's Garden is mostly about trading tips and for those folks with more knowledge helping out some of us that are not so experienced, but I do know that everyone who visits this site loves plants and realizes their importance in our lives; so, this is an issue that echos into all of our lives. But I just don't always trust every site out there on the net because some people have an agenda...I haven't been a member here all that long but I would tend to trust the guy or gal that can identify a plant or bug lightning quick.

Okay, going to go check out treeoflife.nu now.

Word.

I checked out the site. Looks a little bit culty or new age for me. I'm not against Earth Religions by any means, but looking it over I just didn't really see any science.

Besides being a gardener I've worked as a cook, and I can tell you this: The more you cook anything the more vitamins you are going to lose, but you gotta think about taste. Also, I'm not a vegan by any means. I don't eat tons of meat, in fact usually less than a quarter pound of meat a day, but sometimes I really do crave that ribeye or a couple eggs for breakfast.

Rather than just going raw for everything, which I can respect if it's a spiritual thing, most veggies can be steamed with minimal loss of nutrients. Also saute isn't bad, you just don't want to over cook it. And a bit of olive oil (if you don't want to do butter since it's an animal product) never hurt anyone.

Right now the average American over a year eats almost 7 ounces of meat per day. Meat does take a lot more to go into it, especially for healthy cows, pigs, and chickens, but, dang...they are yummy. I would suggest to anyone that wants to make a real difference but not deny themselves that sweet protein, have only one meal a day with meat, or two, but with small amounts (that's what I tend to do).

And once a month, enjoy that 5 or 6 oz. tenderloin.
(don't go to the steak house to buy it, it'll be 30 bucks there, just have a good grill and do it at home with salad stuff from your own garden)

:)

neworleansdude: The numbers 9, 8, and 4 are the first ones. For instance, 9 followed by four digits means it's an organic whatever. (Those following numbers are the code that identifies the type of fruit or veggie, e.g., a watermelon. That's why you only see four numbers on the conventionally grown melon, since there's no need to identify it as organic or GM.)
As for the treeoflife.nu site, you must not have typed in healthrights after the forward slash. It's treeoflife.nu/healthrights I referred you to that site because it explains the Codex. In fact, the heading reads Health Freedom Rights: Codex: A Deadly Mandate for Global Under-Nutrition. In the text it says, "It will be illegal to grow your own high quality organic food in your own garden." I may start a new thread highlighting this issue, because what could be more important to people who visit this site than such an outrageous infringement on their rights?
As for the Tree of Life place and its programs, I wasn't attempting to steer anybody towards that or preach veganism in any form. It's simply that the founder happens to have written a very complete summary of the Codex Alimentarius. He is an M.D. who has successfully treated many patients with Type 2 diabetes with a raw food diet and on average they come off insulin within two to four weeks. I mention that only to give you an idea of his credibility. And if this article didn't come up first on your results page, it's probably because you have PC. I have a Mac. But anyway, please look up the full cite or just Google "Codex Alimentarius" and you'll soon see what I'm talking about. Thanks again for replying to this thread.

The Codex was created in 1963. It's not some "just around the corner" new regulation or some new world order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alimentarius

Why does the fact that Burpee has acquired a seedless variety of tomato affect home gardeners? Other than a few kooks who think tomatoes should be seedless, it certainly doesn't affect me. Seedless watermelons have been around for what -- 25 years now? I still grow regular watermelons because I prefer the flavor and don't want the bother of growing different varieties and low pollination. I grow food for flavor. I use my tongue to tell me if a tomato is good, not a brix meter.

Why do I think that a global conspiracy to eliminate organic food and saving of open pollinated seeds of fruit and vegetables isn't happening? Because the variety and volume of organic food as well as the proliferation of small and large seed vendors which offer hundreds of OP and heirloom varieties have both exploded in the past 10 years. The selection and quantity of organic produce at even low-end grocery stores has grown dramatically in the last 10 years. 10 years ago, the apple choices at most stores were Red Delicious (which isn't IMO), Golden Delicious, and Granny Smith. Now I routinely see 20-30 choices.

Farmer's Markets are coming back into vogue and there is now a clear distinction between markets that allow grocery store "mass produced, long shipped" produce and farmer's markets that have distance and labeling limitations (which I MUCH prefer).

10 years ago, the choice of tomato varieties at local nurseries was Celebrity, Big Boy, Early Girl, etc. I can name 10 nurseries in S.E. Texas which offer over 50 tomato varieties for sale. I've been astounded by how many different varieties are offered in transplants of oregano, thyme, and basil. Some nurseries have over 15 choices of these 3 herbs.

Do I have concerns about the recent U.S. House and Senate "Food Safety" bills? Absolutely. They seem to want to completely overreact and trying to set one standard for how all food should be produced. Never mind that the food scares over the last 10 years were all failures of the understaffed FDA to inspect and enforce the existing rules.

The peanut scare was because of lax inspections and toothless enforcement. The salmonella scare was because of the monoculture we have allowed to take root in this country. The best possible place is determinated where to grow a crop, and then we cease growing that crop anywhere else. We need to get back to growing produce EVERYWHERE. Not just California, Florida, and Mexico and shipping it a thousand miles or more.

I am VERY concerned about certain provisions which have started in certain states like Kentucky which prevent customer tasting/sampling of melons. I do NOT want to see these ridiculous laws go nationwide. It should not be a crime for a farmer to slice open a tomato and offer a slice to a customer.

very nice post, feldon: I think as a nation we should discuss these things. How we label food, the The Farm Corp with 100,000 plus acres, the family farmer thinking about doing organic with 500 and the back yard farmer with a quarter acre or less.

I'm really suprised more people haven't jumped in on this thead to give their two cents.

I don't tend to belive in conspiracy theory stuff, but it does bother me that certain seed companies are trying to develop more and more seedless varities. I like the idea of having generations....more than 75% of the stuff in my yard right now are 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation. Doesn't matter if it's flower, herb, fruit, or veggie, or even ornamental, I do like knowing it's something that produced well, and had good seed and can repdroduce.

I know on a small scale of even ten acres this may not be possible. I have been trying to grow some third generation acron squash, the first one being bought at a grocery store, last year, some of the seeds did okay, but this year with the powdery mildew....not so good; I think that has more to do with my soil and the care we give them, plus the blight.

Recently I've read about some folks that try to do more of a grow local rather than grow organic. And I've bought some of that stuff as well. I'd rather buy Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama crops than California. But then it's all about cost and how we should deal with it in this modern age.

Earlier tonight I purchased four ears of corn for one dollar. Local grocery, they only have about a dozen locations mostly in LA. I don't think that they came from anywhere around here, but compared to how high corn prices have gone the last few years I had to. I don't care if it's Iowa, Kansas, Ohio, whatever....the price was right.

Two months ago the best price I could find was almost a dollar per cob.

Obama should do something for the back yard gardener...give everoyne who wants one 300 dollars for 'victory gardens' to buy seed or plant trees.

Hell, we've bailed all the banking and automotive industries out.

Peace. And I really hope more people start responding to this thread, I'm curious.

feldon30: Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I realize now I shouldn't have used the word "conspiracy" because that always triggers a knee-jerk dismissive reaction, but what nobody who has responded to this seems to understand is that this is not the 1963 Codex anymore, but a vastly expanded set of international regulations that could result in the routine irradiation of all commercial produce and the criminalization of home food gardening. How can gardeners not even care that these are the actual regulations that the World Health Organization seeks to impose? If all the raw food authors who have written about this are wrong, fine, but why would anyone make this up? The very fact that more and more people are demanding more diversity of cultivars, that more and more people are turning to alternative medicine (which always specifies organic foods) -- in short, that people don't want to surrender their health to the pharmaceutical companies is the reason those companies want to make it illegal for a health food store to sell natural remedies that often work better than drugs and have no horrific side effects. (From what I've read this is already the case in Norway.) Therefore, if you can grow your own organic food and stay healthy as a result you're interfering with drug profits.
And yes, I started a new thread on the Codex because I thought from the reaction to the first one that nobody knew what I was referring to and that mentioning the Codex provision that would outlaw home food production should get more attention to this very grave situation.

I don't believe home food production will be criminalized, sorry. Why would anyone make this up? I don't know. Why would people recently zero in on one bill (HR 875) out of dozens, make it sound like the world was coming to an end, and falsely accuse a agri-business as the sponsor of the bill?

My point is that the sky has always been falling, and probably always will be. Even if there was a big conspiracy to deprive all humans of the right to grow their own food (which I don't believe) how well do you think that's really going to work? I imagine any kind of agriculture prohibition wouldn't work even half as well as alcohol prohibition did, and look how well banning other things such as marijuana and methamphetamine has worked. If you think people disregard speed limits, just wait and see how many agree to not grow a tomato in their backyard.




This message was edited May 8, 2009 12:18 AM

Dorkasaurus is right: Even if some how for some reason some government tried to outlaw growing plants, who would enforce it and to what extent. Marijuana is still the biggest cash crop in several states. Which it only fetches those prices because it's illegal, but that's a story for another thread. BTW...I had grandparents in ABQ, haven't been in there in over ten years now, but have you watched Breaking Bad on AMC? Very awesome show, that and Lost are pretty much the only ones I have to watch every week.

Guosui: We should be ever vigilant. There are some big farm corporations doing not cool things. And people should be educated about it. My reason for checking out the site and not your exact link was I like to see what an overall site is about, to figure out their mission.

I smoke cigarettes and everyone knows they're bad, but I could make up a site and twist various studies to 'prove' they're good for you. Statistics are fun like that.

Again, I say this with no intent of disrespect. I think you're on the right track, but I want more info than just one vegan site. I'll check out your other thread, haven't read any of that one yet.

Be well.

Thanks again for everyone's comments. I feel I've gotten the word out, and I sincerely hope that shedding light on these issues has been beneficial. I've certainly learned a lot from comments posted to both of my threads re the Codex, and I apologize if I've overstepped the boundaries of Dave's Garden polices. This has been very interesting, to say the least.