Ornamental tree (zone 6) close to house, difficult soil?

In zone 6 heavy shaded area with a large maple, a 5' stockade fence, concrete walkway, and our house all close by (tight area). Trying to block our view of another property (messy backyard of a bar). Was thinking of maybe a purple smoke tree, some type of dogwood (cherokee chief, red, kousa), weeping cherry, or a tree hydrangea. This soil is very hard and rocky (upstate, NY not far from the apalachian trail), just diging a small hole is a real chore. For example, put some pacasandra further back in the backyard along this same side strip along the fence and broke the handle of a pitch fork attemping to lossen the ground. The pacasandra are still alive but don't spead at all from their planted positions for the last 2-3 years.

- Is the soil too hard for good root spread?
-Large maple be too much root competition?
-Will a tree get too large in the close vicinity to fence, house, and concrete side walkway?
-Related side question, what should be done for the none spreading pacasandra?

This message was edited May 3, 2009 9:22 AM

Since you're trying to block a view, you might consider something evergreen--smoke trees, dogwoods, cherries, and hydrangeas are all deciduous so you'll be looking at your neighbor's messy yard for a good chunk of the year unless you get something evergreen. Smoke trees and cherries would also be happier in sun than in shade. As far as the rocky soil, can you amend it at all or do a raised bed? I'm not sure where this is relative to the maple, some trees don't like having their roots disturbed or having soil piled over top of them but if it's far enough from the tree then you may be OK. If the pachysandra's not spreading at all that tells me the area is going to be a bit challenging for things to thrive in unless you can find a way to amend.

Thanks ecrane, for the response (to this and some of my other threads)

Last year we did set up a large planting area in the backyard up against the back fence. A sort of raised bed with stones making the border (around 81/2' deep and 20' wide). Some things didn't do too well in this difficult space. This year I figured on trying a variety of shade plants and seeing what does well (still making the selections of these). I quess this should be a whole seperate post. The groundcovers selections I earlier placed in an invasive plant (sweet pea, periwinkle)? post.
- What would be good to amend the back 1 year old raised bed with before I try these new perenials?
- I read somewhere else on this site that peat moss helps hold moisture and something about walmart mushroom compost?

The tree to block the view on the side can't be too tall maybe 10-12' or wide spreading. Would mostly be a concern when on the porch during the warmer parts of the year. I was thinking ornamental to help brighten things up in this heavy shade area. This entire side strip space with the pachysandra not spreading further towards the back and tree idea should probably be made into a larde strip raised bed. But I'm not sure a rented power roto-tiller would be able to break things up and there's the large maples roots to consider etc.

-Are there good evergreen or small pine (conifer?) selections for this difficult heavy shade space? I was thinking of adding one or two in the back, mostly perenial, raised bed to keep winter interest. Now you have me wondering if the side view blocker should be evergreen as well.

This message was edited Apr 7, 2009 10:03 AM

This message was edited Apr 7, 2009 10:05 AM

Since I'm going to do a bunch of planting in the back heavy shade raised bed (mostly perennials)
Maybe I'll put the side view ornamental tree in a very large pot and avoid dealing with the difficult hard soil?

Was looking at the eburgess or direct gardening website for a tree that does well in heavy shade. Thinking of keeping it in large planter pot. The trees that come up with their search for zone 6 shade that I'm considering include: purple smoke tree, hydrangea tree (the smallest sizes of these), lily of the valley tree, and potted weeping cherry (this seem to be the largest of the bunch, so low on the list).

-Would any of these particular trees do well in a large planter?
-Soil mix be all potting soil or other things combined with potting soil?

I've always seen the smoke trees listed as full sun so I'm not sure how it'll do in heavy shade. Maybe it wouldn't mind some shade, but there's a difference between being OK with light or part shade and doing well in heavy shade. And the cherry might not do well in shade either--at the very least it probably won't bloom much. Both could probably handle some light shade, but I don't think they'll do well in heavy shade. Assuming "lily of the valley tree" is a Pieris species, I think those are more shade tolerant. Hydrangeas also do fine in shade, although for best blooms you would want at least a bit of morning sun--if it's all day heavy shade they may not bloom much.

Also, are these the two companies that you were looking at? I don't know if you were just using their sites to get ideas, but I would definitely read the ratings and comments in the Watchdog before you order anything from them. (and I don't know how much I'd trust info they're providing you either...I'd probably doublecheck any info you got from them with some more reputable companies to make sure you've got the correct info)
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/233/
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/231/

How about a trellis with an evergreen vine? The trellis will give you blockage of the view as soon as you put it up, and the trees or shrubs may take years to do that.

Good Idea Juney!

I was going to say bottle trees! Three or Five - like a 'stand' of them! Can be one color or colorful (brown bottles look quite lovely in the shade) A big art installation! No worrying about the soil. Not expensive at all and permanent. Also no worry about spreading too much or space being too tight!

Instant privacy!

No roots buckeling the foundation...no mess of leaves to deal with....

Yes and they 'sparkle' so pretty in the sun and the rain keeps them clean. I have never hung mine in the way to let them 'howl' in the wind...----so I probably still have ghosts prowling :0)