Propagation: Propagation part VI based on my own experience

Ok, last year when I started following this thread, I went out and took cuttings of my birch tree, crape myrtle trees, leyland cypress trees, cherry tree & gardenia bushes. I lost everything except 2 cuttings of crape myrtles (yippee!) My question is this: they are growing & have new leaves on them but they still look like tip cuttings. How do I turn them into little trees? Do I need to stake them so they stiffen up? and grow straight? I took all my cuttings at then end of summer. Is now a good time to start again?
Thanks
Dawn

Good morning everyone:
My mom spent 14 hours in "surgery" (for lack of a better word) it went well and I am looking forward to seeing her. Thank you to all the kind words of suport.
Plant patents are covering any and all propagation of said plant. The owner of the patent has taken the time energy and money to have a neat new plant that no one else has. With that said, some of the big garden magazines simply resubmit their plant with a small difference and new name to keep their patent going. I believe this is not the industry as a whole but some do use the loop hole to keep the income flowing. Patents are for 20 years... I think.
This subject hit home the other day when I was talking to my grandfather in florida. He was asking about propagating 'encore' azaleas. I told him leagally you are suposed to get permission or a license to propagate the plant. Encore azaleas are a newer type that blooms off and on all year. Its like 6 weeks between blooming and any pruning needs to be done right after they bloom. Patents really tell the story when you look at christmas pointsettia's. The breeder behind most of the cultivars highers teachers to visit greenhouses all summer long. they have the ability to determine how many plants can be produced from stock plants. its all a complicated formula but its worth it to them as they get somewhere around 3 to 5 cents per cutting. As you can imagine it does roll upto big money.
There are plenty of plants out in the nurseries that are not patented and are "open game" for taking cuttings from. I try to look at the bigger cataloges to see what is and is not patented. This is how I have decided what plants I want to propagate. With my health issues I am not goig to mess with anything over a 3 gallon container (10"). Most of what I am trying to stick to is 4" and 6" potted landscape plants.
Last spring I was visiting with a grower in southwest florida. I was told the government has gotten involved with standardization of plant growing containers. It has to do with the industry using a slightly smaller pot that a 1 gallon in measured material. Many nurseries have gone to labeling their plants as 6", 10" or "trade gallons". I have noted that a lot of cost in soil expense can be saved by using a slightly smaller container with a plant every bit as big as the larger container.
I have been trying the poly grow bags as an alternative to the injection or blow molded container. Most 6" containers can be found for about 22 cents each plus shipping costs.
What size are you growing in and why??? What are you growing?
Dave

Hi Dawn:
We are getting into prime time to start taking cuttings. My prime time is may through augaust/september.
What you want to do is root the cuttings and get a good root system. Next transplant the "liner" into either 4" or 6" container. Its going to take time to get the liners upto a sellable product. I have some plants I feel are ready to resell as 4" and they are a bit small but I can get a decent price for my efforts. I like these questions. It makes me feel like I am able to give back.
Dave

Thanks Dave! I plan to get out there and try my hand at taking cuttings again. I'll probably do so in the next week or so. Everything is beginning to wake up here. Thanks for all this wonderful information. It is great!
Dawn

Glad to help. so what besides crepe's are you taking cuttings from??? I am still a month out. we were 84 yesterday and tomorrow will be in the 30's for a low. yuck
Dave

Jeanette, My camellias bloom usually from oct- mid april. Even through the cold. Most of them are in the shade but I have a few in full sun. I will post some pictures of what I have blooming right now. I don't know what I would do without my blossoms in the winter. I would go nuts. LOL

They are not too hard to root, but they are incredibly slow. They don't grow real fast even after they are established, so as a cutting they are even slower.

JBerger, you got some really nice varieties! I have posted a question about using a propagator on camellia cuttings on another forum, but so far I have had no answers. I will start to experiment with it when cutting time is here. Where did you find your scented geraniums? I have been searching for a couple of varieties and they are not easy to find around here. I hate to pay as much as 6.95 for a rooted cutting that has been grown in an area with an environment that is completely opposite of my growing conditions.

Dave, I am planting in 6" containers too due to my spinal problems. I just cannot handle the larger plants and getting my teenage son to help in the garden ( without threatening to take away even the air that he breathes ) is close to impossible.

I also like the smaller containers because I can fill the areas I want to plant more closely. I rarely get things established before they end up getting moved, so unless I plant a lot of them, my beds always look skimpy.

Right now I am growing brugmansia seedlings and plumeria seedlings. I have daylilies started and a few passionflowers, but this week, I will pot them up and make room for some veggies. Then In may or June, I will start my perennial seeds for next year and in July and August, I will begin cutting and rooting azaleas, camellias, loropetalum, gardenias and some other things.


PC, Do I detect some enabling going on? I'm game.....
Linda

Dave,
I am going to try my Leland Cypress trees again along with the Yoshino & Kwanza cherry trees I have. I want to do my gardenia bushes also. I want to try my birch tree also.

PD: I will try to look up leylandii's as I am wanting to have some of those going as well.

Linda I do understand about planting and then move it or sell it off. I am trying to grow more of my own annuals for filler. Its kind of funny you said you will be starting perrienials late spring. I had my brain set in production mode instead of thinking. Great idea on starting perriennials for next year. I have been trying to scramble to get them all grown this spring to plant in june..Its the forest for the trees thing
Dave

Linda, I got the scented geraniums from Dawn Hill in Las Vegas.

Her link is http://www.sunshinehill.momcom.net/

She is a real darling and has loads of goodies to buy.

JB

Thanks JBerger, I will check her website. They are so hard to find here and there are only a few places I have found online.

Dave, I think starting in late spring is an OCD type thing for me.( I don't handle boredom very well, it is best if I keep my hands in the dirt as much as possible) Usually from November to January, I am rooting things like brugs & late fall things bloomers ( confederate rose & other hibiscus) so I never have room. Our temperatures are so up and down I have never tried winter sowing, besides I never have quite enough space. Anyway, usually as soon as I pot up the rooted cuttings, I start my tropical seeds, then veggies, perennials, cuttings, and winter veggies, then I start all over again with the rootings. LOL I seem to be a creature of habit. It just seems to work for me. It is also more convenient because by the following spring, the perennials are ready to bloom and I didn't have to struggle to keep them alive on the porch all winter.

Today, our weather was in the 70's so I was able to get outside. We are expecting temperatures above 50 now for the next 10 days or so and I took advantage of that and moved all of my plants from the aviary and porch outside. I though I had lost a few, but was pleasantly surprised to see green where I didn't expect it.
Then I potted up 5 flats of seedlings ( brugs, plumeria and passiflora ) that I had sown in January and now, I just want to crash. LOL I haven't done that much work in quite a while.

I will check in tomorrow. I don't want to sleep too late and miss a pretty day.
See Ya, Linda

Oops Dave, I almost forgot. You might find this helpful too. At the end of the year, just after the last frost I usually completely wipe out my seed box. I mix everything in a ziplock baggie with vermiculite and then broadcast the seeds into the beds that need filling. It germinates the following spring with no help from me and I have all new fresh seeds in my seed box. I have filled in quite a lot of areas this way and if you have some perennials that you like mixed in, you can always move them to a permanent home.. My hubby hates it because I won't let him weed it until I know which are weeds and which are flowers, but you never know what you might find blooming when you are in my yard too. I like it that way.
Linda

Linda: That sounds like a neat idea. unfortunately my wife is very orderly so she does not deal with a mass mixed bed. Luckily we have worked out an agreement that I get the south side of the house from the greenhouse (in back) to the front corner. I am planning to build pvc shade for half of it, as well as some seperate zones for watering.
I do understand the yoyo weather. today we were in the mid 80s and monday lows in the 30's. we have had it go from 80's in the am and pileing snow in the pm on the same day. and just when we think mother nature is done with us we always get a last blast just for fun, so I am holding everyone inside for now.
All my daylilies are leafing out and forsythia is in bloom. I will have to dig out my stock from behind the wood pile. They stacked the tree in front of my DL area. I am not sure how much has survived and whats not coming back.
I do understand about being board. I usually get in trouble because I tend to start more seeds than I have room for or ability to care for. I will try to get out and get pics tomorrow to share.
Dave

Dave, I don't know how your plants take those temperature flunctiations. I guess they're more adaptable than it would appear. we are having a drop in temps this next week, in the 20's and low 30's. usually I have hostas coming up but they're hiding. which is good because there would be dieback. I'm heating the greenhouse so it doesn't go below 55%F because I moved several up from my basement, where they were enjoying 70%F temp. where's that global warming when you need it? for the last 5 to 10 years it's been colder and colder spring weather here. we had freezing weather in April and May. last year. I didn't take my tomatoes out of the greenhouse until June. Jim

Its funny how plants can adapt. 2 things are key to getting them to survive those fluxuations.water and fertilizer. I like to feed everyone around halloween so they have enough stored to get through the winter. My daylilies are now4-6" tall above the leaf mulch and seem to be doing well. I water them whenever the temps get above 50 and I shoot for 1 @ week but now with the warmer temps I am trying to get 2x@ week. Its tough when its all done by hand. I am planning to get some pvc zones set up for the containerized stuff. My hostas are pokeing up under the mulch but I am not going to uncover any of the better ones. I have some green leaf noid's that I looked at yesterday. Its tough to look at everyone as they are all tucked in behind the wood pile so I have to climb over some stuff just to water. I am being extra careful with that.
Tomorrow I will get my niece to help me move everyone where I can take care of them. I am curious about a key hosta I got in earler this year. I tucked him in behind a mass of plants so the wind would not affect him as well as a nice pile of leaves. Mother natures mulch... I love it.
Anyone wonder what will happen if the polar ice melts completely away like some are saying is happening? I fear florida will be all swamp and reef. Oh well Its gotta get really bad to do that doesn't it???
Jim it sounds like you have a good plan worked out. has any of the snow that just hit washington affected you? I know you said it tends to close mountain passes so you can't get to see some of your relatives. I guess its my way of asking are the weather yoyo's blowing it all out of proportion? In florida you here about oklahoma and it sounds like we are all under water or burned to a crisp from fires. and of course the weather we get on florida makes it sound like they are all flooded with hurricane winds. I hate the shock factor weather reports.
Dave

Yup, got 4 inches of snow in the last couple of hours and still coming down. Temps in the mid 20's so it isn't going anywhere soon.

Jeanette

Sorry about dat.... hopefully you will dig out soon.
Dave

Dave, there's no global warming that I can see. or if 500 scientists know what they're talking about. I believe it's all political. I know I'm not supposed to talk about it on the forums but this will be the only time that I do. I just get sick of being lied to. here we're at a 10 to 15 year low. today was cold but I got to work outside with my gardener all day and get the spring cleanup going. Oh! La! La! Jim

Jim: you may be right. I know the media is controlled by outside forces so we get slanted news. thats why I pay most attention to weather and what has happened locally because its varifiable the rest I listen and think.
It was a red letter day for me as well we got out and got a lot of stuff done. I decided to pull my layer of mulch off and play it close to the edge. I don't know if its the right move or not but we will see. Hacksaw is lookin pretty. I left him under a layer to protect him. but the rest of my older stuff is now out in the open, ready for spring.
Dave

I was reading about propagating hibiscus yesterday and it suggested putting the cuttings all in one containing. They like company. What are your thoughts on hibiscus propagation?

My new bougainvillea arrived today. The Delta Dawn and Blueberry Ice both have variegated leaves. really pretty little plants. Logee's shipped them Friday. I went balistic because I knew they would sit in the post office for two days, which is excactly what happened. I picked them up at the P.O, this morning, They are so far behind in shipping they are actually shipping five days a week. I am o..k. now that they are here and look o.k. but I was one unhappy person when I heard they shipped Friday. You really need to make a notation if you do not get Sat. delivery and they have to lay over more than one day. I am one fussy old lady when it comes to shipping. I imagine with their volume of sales, they have no choice but to ship the end of the week. Oh well, all is o.k. now.

I took some cutting of the little "goldfish plant" . Has anyone had any luck with cuttings from them?

Dave, Hacksaw is also coming up here, I have some hybrids off of it, that are looking promising. I will cross some red stem varieties with them this year to see what I get. also I'm using the pollen on streakers. Jim

JB: I have always had good luck with 2-3 ppp in a cell situation for propagation. Bottom heat and evenly moist is one key. I have had a lot of trouble with hibiscus here in tulsa. south florida was no big deal. I have had to adapt my process and still am fine tuning it. How big are the plants you got in? I always shoot for a ship date of no later than tuesday so they don't sit in some truck especially in the summer. I don't know if anyone has seen the post offices latest thoughts on cost cutting. They are thinking about eliminating saturday deliveries. I believe it will send more of us to fed-ex or ups.
Jim I am glad to hear yours are showing growth. I am excited to see the red tiped varieties when you have them stableized. It was a nice weekend. I just wish my pain doctor had more time in the day. I still am waiting to get in for my shoulder from my fall. And its going to be another week. I sure did pick the worst time of year to get hurt ...tax season Oh well life goes on.
Dave

Good evening Dave, sorry you are hurting. I have no idea what these physicians must
have in their heads to justify the things they do. It takes months to see a specialist these days and in the old days a doctor was a doctor and he managed to see anyone who was in the waiting room. He worked until they were all taken care of. I worked in a doctor's office, country doctor, and there were two girls, one nurse and me a med. sec. who also took BP, Temps, prepared patients for exams, etc. Anyhow, we had office hours that went from after noon until sometimes 9 P.M. just seeing all ages. Seldom did we get out of there before nine. But, no one was left in the office waiting room and we were back in there at 10:00 and he made house calls between office hours. No one worried about paying or insurance. Those kind of doctors are no more. They all have specialties now and it takes weeks for an appointment. What is wrong with this picture?
Sorry, I got carried away. That is why emergency rooms are so busy and insurance claims are so high. I will stop now I promise. LOL

My new plants are in 2 inch pots and need to be transplanted but not until they have settled in. LOL.

JB: No problem I agree that its a mess but I think its going to be worst before it gets better. fortunately I have a good pain mgmnt dr. They are working me in tomorrow afternoon so I should get some relief.
Keep your head down though we have a line of storms rolling in with cold behind it so it should be on you in a day or so.
Dave

Hey Dave, I thought about you yesterday when my friends were talking about eating Bing Cherries for pain of certain types. The dried, frozen or canned without sugar are supposed to be a great natural method. I am going to give it a try. You may want to check on that. I am willing to try anything to see if it helps and is not a pill.

I just got notice that my scented geranium cuttings are being shipped. I am so excited about them. The four I cut and planted a week ago look great, never one single leaf came off and no culed up or brown . I am so pleased.

Have a good day. JB

I have heard that bing cherries are great for arthritis pain. I Love fresh cherries, but rarely beat my son to them. LOL

Hi:
I will try them to see. I am hopeful I will get a lot done today as its going to be nice until late this afternoon. High 75 and drops to the 40's by 6pm yuck and boy do I feel it coming in. I am hopeing to get some relief this afternoon as my pain managment dr is working me in.
Dave

Good luck with your pain dr. today. I hope it brings you alot of relief. I made my regular every two week trip to the chiropractor. LOL He keeps me going , and at 80,. he needs to use some magic in addition to the little thing he used on my shoulder and neck. I call it a popper because he just puts it on the pain area and pops it. Great relief and keeps me going.

It is too cold to work outside. so I think I will take the black pussy willows in soil. They have been in water for a week or more. I am not sure what to expect. Rabbits are working on them again. The snow took the spray off and I am furious. They have one of the younger ones down to the ground. I hate hungry rabbits.

JB:
Isn't there a thing you can use to scare them off? some kind of scent or something??? I know the house cat does a pretty good job along with the rest of the pack of night owl kitties. Gotta love those kitties.
Thanks for the support. I managed to get out and water and plant some more daylily seeds round 4 I think LOL. Everytings looking really good I just hope some of my dormant stuff comes back. especially the cannas. I think I over did it with the water on them. time will tell.
Dave

My rabbits are not afraid of anything, except the spray stuff that was washed off by the snow and my SIL has not had time to mix new stuff and spray it. He works are a large nursery and they are digging just now and working 6 days a week, sometimes more. He is the boss, so he has to be there. Oh well....they will come back.
Remember we were talking about dried cherries for pain.. I got some at the store and they are really tasty. Love them as a snack. This will be a good way to have an excuse to snack between meals. LOL I also used to soak white raisins in gin and eat nine of those each day. That is another thing that is supposed to help your arthritis pain. I got to like that....but then I like gin. LOL. I am such a bad old lady.
Your cannas should come back. They are really tough babies. I hope for your sake they do. Stay dry and well. JB
r

Hey Jberger and Dave, if you want a really good healthy snack..... mix the dried cherries and or golden raisins with walnuts. It is addictive! and healthy for you. The cherries are good for the pain, the walnuts have "good" fats and the raisins just have to be healthy some how.

It is going to be a really pretty day, so I am planning to get outside.

I don't have a problem with rabbits, but since I moved my plants outside the squirrels have stolen 4 of my baby plumeria...... I was livid, but the only other thing i can do is build a cage around the plants. They need sun too.......

Any ideas for dealing with the tree rats?

I just hate squirrels....there is nothing to do to them that I know about. There are very few here. I used to have voles at my other farm and they would just suck those plants down into the ground. It was not funny but it looked funny when you would just see a plant going into the ground and no one was there helping it. I used to go wild, I would take my Jack Russell out and he would dig them up and kill them. My garden was a mess. LOL
Thank God I do not have that here.

As for the cherries, walnuts and raisins.....you do not soak them all in gin do you????LOL

I am so excited, my scented geraniums came and they are beautiful. But, there is a discrepancy with the instructions Dave has on his list and what Dawn says how to prepare them for planting. Dave says let the cuttings harden ,Dawn says cut them off at an angle and plant them. I guess I have to go with Dawn because I do not know where the info DG has came from and she is the geranium lady. Hmmmm makes you wonder what is correct. The actual wording of the DB propagation method was"Allow cut surface to callous over befroe planting". I just want them to live.

That was on the Pelargonium citrosum. I did not look up any others. What do you think?

I don't soak them in gin, but I am sure you could if you were so inclined. LOL. I just don't like gin. rum might be a different story though. LOL

Whenever I have rooted scented geraniums, I have never let them callous. I guess it wouldn't hurt them, but I always just stuck them immediately.

I always had pretty good luck with them.

The apple and the coconut geranium were easier for me from seed though.

Gin, rum and - oh, oops.

I haven't run into a coconut pel yet - I bet it is heavenly.

Hmm soak the cuttings in gin...rum... LOL Sorry could not resist. I always try to follow the grower. they usually have years of experience on their specific crop. Most of what I do I just go straight into rooting media. I am sure it might improve my success % but I don't really want to have to stop & think ...do I let it callous or not. I know geraniums are pretty tough and do adapt well to alot of different situations.
Oh yea, I was raveing on how I had finished my Daylily seed planting. What happens I get an envelope I thought I had recieved. another 150 seeds to go. Please don't think I am whining. I do love the lttle buggers.
Hmm arent rasins rotten grapes???? LOL
How is everyones weather??? We had sleet early am and now its flurries..... geeez.... I wish it would stop this cold crap. Oh well its going to be in the 60's this weekend.
I covered everyone last night with towels and sheets. I knew it was too early. The weather man said march is the 3rd most snowyist month on average. record snow month in march 12 inch's. and we are suposed to be in the warm tropical jet stream.
Dave

Dave, you know they are dried, not rotten!!!! Are you testing me and my 80 year old mind? Shame on you. Do not speak of Snow to me again. The long range weather forecast calls for another Nor'easter and the last one left me with a foot of snow. I do not want to hear it. It says next week end. If you plant onions, you had better put them in now because that will be your onion snow. I pray it is just a flurry if it has to be snow.

I just love daylillies and at my other place I had a skillion different varieties but here I have none. The deer used to eat the blooms off when they were just buds and I went crazy trying to keep them from eating the special ones. If I had my way I would have them everywhere. They are so easy to grow and I love their beauty.

JB:
Yes I know rasins are dried grapes ... i just could not pass up the funny...lol Sorry but its flurries still. accumulation ......none grounds to warm yeah.
I agree daylilies should be everywhere.
Dave

LOL @ ==> JB and the rotten grapes!

Sorry everyone... I just have to be silly every now and then.... or I will go stark raveing MAD...LOL

You? Silly?? Say it ain't so... heh....

Hey, I understand the "silly". LOL my family says I put the FUN in dysfuntional. My poor Dad has never figured out my sense of humor. LOL Sometimes I feel sorry for him.

PC, the coconut pelargonium is heavenly! it has a really nice soft leaf and it is perfect for hanging baskets. The flowers are about 1" in diameter and almost a fuschia color. It smells more like rum than coconut to me, but hey isn't rum made from coconuts?

it is supposed to be in the 60's here all weekend, but we are supposed to get rain too. We need it desperately. Everything is turned yellow/green from the pine pollen. It is so thick you can write your name on any given surface with your fingers.
dave, what kind of daylilies did you get? I have ordered a bunch from a seller on ebay that has some gorgeous crosses. He lives kind of close to me, so maybe soon I can go and see his garden.

I got some today and lots that are still soaking in the fridge. I will try to get those planted tomorrow. Does anyone know if you can plant them before the little "foot" ( i guess it is a radical) comes out?

Stay warm and safe everyone...
Linda