First Time WS#5 - Come on in, it's a great time to start

Seems my wintersown plants develop extra big root systems, typically roots are coming out of the bottom of the jug, but for some reason I don't have to water them very much. They seem to hold moisture extra well, at least till the plants are busting to get out of the jugs.

Jim, I've transplanted a few WS plants into individual pots before, but just because I didn't have a garden bed ready for those plants. I prefer to go from jug to the garden with them, and they typically settle right in and burst into growth fast.

I find the HOS method best for tiny seedlings that don't transplant well, or things like Lobelia and Alyssum that have a fuller look in clusters. Otherwise, I try to separate the seedlings (I'm careful these days about how thick I sow).

A quick question about the moisture.. at what point do I need to add more water to my containers? How do I determine that?
We had a great rain here last week, but it seemed like not much got into my jugs with just the lids off. I don't want my soil to dry out. (My jugs are pretty well in shade all day for now)

thanks
Chris

When you say lids, do you mean like the screw on milk jug cap? No screw on cap, but they should have some type of clear "roof" over them, like the top half of the milk jug. I usually don't have to water until spring- like late March or April, if the weather is dry. Get used to feeling how heavy they are. You will learn to judge the moisture by the weight. Also, if put in sun and not frozen solid, you should see condensation of moisture inside the container. You might not see that in shade.

Karen

Karen, yes, I meant the screw on caps.. I've cut the jugs in half, leaving a "hinge" on the top part. The top and bottom parts are held together with a heavy string that DH swears will not rot in the weather lol.. He was kind enough to bring home some wire containers for me to put the jugs in..each holds 8 of the gallon milk jugs. I'll have to take a picture of this.

I'll keep an eye on the "weight" of each and go from there. I don't believe there's been any condensation so far since they're in shade so much.

thanks :)
Chris

Ok..TN weather. Two weeks ago it was 4 degrees, last week it was in the 60's. By Thursday it will be in the 20's again. Last year, which I admit was unusual, but we had frost in late May.
Should I just put my seeds out in 20 degree weather?

Also, I'm not sure about the where to put my jugs? where it gets the morning sun?

I have 21 pots ready to go out. I ran out for now, but I still to collect more that someone saved for me.

I realllly want this to work.....my Dad thinks this can't be done. ;)

hahaha

Put em on out there. You want the cold and snow for a while, as I understand it....... why its called "wintersowing". ;-)

Also, best to not try to give them too much sun because the idea is for them not to germinate and sprout til conditions are really right. Mine do get morning sun but by noon are in shade of the building.

Any that you feel iffy about starting t his early, save some seeds back to start more conventionally, as insurance.

Good ole Dads, eh? Inspiring us to ever new heights of folly-turned-wisdom. hee hee

Nannie: Your dad should see some of the photos of little seedlings cropping up all over the place in milk jugs and soda bottles! Put those babies out and let nature take its course.

Yeah...it makes me more determined that this "will" work....but Mother Nature has different ideas about that too, sometimes.

Thanks...I'll be back. =)

Mothe nature can get cranky sometimes but WS is her way of doing things and was her way long before man and his new agriculture thought he knew better.

Last year--when I WS for the 1st time--I had some pretty shallow containers and some deep ones-so the soil was at all different depths. I think they all worked OK. I kept a log and it seemed the ones I sowed in March germinated before the ones I planted in January.... but almost everything came up! The dome tops on the iced coffee cups I use seemed to keep in enough moisture that I didn't have to water them at all--but I bet it's really different down in TX, KY and TN where it warms up sooner and faster! I have a sunny sidewalk near the house where I keep them. They were snowed on, ice cycles fell on them, sun thawed them. It was amazing--but it was just like Mother Nature!

Question: Anyone have experience with perennials that don't bloom till the 2nd year? Do you transplant them into larger pots for a while before placing them where you want them permanently (or, in my case, until I think of a better place!)?

dlw28, several of the perennials I've WSd don't (or didn't) bloom till the 2nd year. I planted most of them directly in the garden when they were big enough to handle easily. If they're crowded and you're not ready to plant them, its fine to transplant them into individual pots. Some of mine stayed in the WS container till fall.

I transplant everything to the spot that I want it to grow. I don't leave any in pots.

nbgard--I have to ask--what toilet paper roll thing???

Also--I can't seem to find the page I looked at before that mentioned meeting DG people in a close by area to do a plant trade--but it sounds like such a great idea after doing WS and having lots of extra babies. Anyone heard of this idea?

tcs1366--Thanks for the info about the sprouts in cold weather. I don't have anything growing yet--but it's been a weird winter here. I don't usually think about prolonged thaws until late March.

Do you think it's too optimistic to think we'll have an early spring?????

So-in terms of transplanting directly or repotting--sounds like there is no hard and fast rule! Funny how some of the books I've read seem so adamant about a particular way ; )

just like a recipe I guess. What works for one, may not work for another. Or, it doesn't matter which road you take when both lead to the same destination.

Yes! Philosophy from the garden!

dlw -- that year we had a very warm March. I had a lot of germintation that year... I recall all of use [especially in the mid-west] scrambling to get our containers covered. it got REALLY cold.

I just have to remember not to sow my tender annuals too early. that year was my first, and i had no idea what i was doing.

dlw: You are no doubt reading a book about indoor seed starting. That baloney doesn't pertain to wintersowing.

Karen

dlw28, sounds like you are asking about Round Ups. Here is the link to the Round Up forum, so you can see where some are being planned. I went to my first one last year, and it was FANTASTIC! I got to meet a bunch of the people I'd "met" on DG, we had a great pot luck lunch, we swapped all kinds of plants. . .it was great fun. I'm headed to the Iowa Round Up again this year, and possibly the Upper Midwest one, too.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/roundup/all/

I started extra seeds beyond what I personally will need, so I'll have plenty to share at the Round Up this year. Last year I felt like I came home with twice as much as I took, but then everyone else seemed to say the same thing!

If you are able to attend one, I strongly recommend it!

Angie

Hi dlw! Here is a link that talks about using toilet paper rolls to plant seeds indoors in and then planting the whole thing in the ground. The tp roll decomposes. I have had some good success with this method, but still prefer WSowing!

http://www.yougrowgirl.com/thedirt/2007/04/13/toilet-roll-seed-starter/

Some other tips: http://www.yougrowgirl.com/tips_disease.php

Tonya

dlw - if you are referring to starting seeds indoors - then that is not wintersowing in the sense that I am referring. It's whole new ball of wax - or a horse of a different color...

hi every one . this is my first year winter sowing . well on purpous anyway . ive started things to early in the past and just left them out side not caring . but they sprouted any way . so this year i did
morning glories
black hollyhocks
phlox
dianthus
sweet pea
foxglove
i have lots of sprouts already but im not sure what . i mixed the labels up

Wow, you're getting early sprouts! Congrats! Can you post pics of them? I'd probably recognize most of those.

i think some are morning glories and some are maybe dianthus , i didnt use jugs i just used the flats, but i took the thing that holds the pellets out and set it on the ground with the lid over it and a branch holding the lids down . i wrote on the lids and switched them around when the wind blew them off .ill go take a pic . i already put the sweet pea where they are gonna go . they sprouted too .i did start moonflowers inside . and i have to say the jiffy pellets are way to small for that . they are monsters , im gonna need to pot them up . i guess i could have just direct sowed them .

Tonya and Angie--These are great links! I found one round up in MA.--about 3 hrs from here -but it sounds like lots of fun so it'd be a day trip! Its in July, which makes sense up here in the northern tundra... You know, I grew up mostly in VA and Hawaii--so the winters seem interminable to me.

The yougrowgirl site is great! And funny! And recycles! What could be better--except WSing! lol

I think the books I was reading are for indoor starting. I have tried starting seeds indoors but it's messy and the plants that survive are leggy. But I'm going to try a small vegie garden this year (I'm probably being to ambitious) and am worried about WSing the vegie seeds--or starting them in May when we're past the frost date. Has anyone had success with WSing vegies? WOn't some have the same problems as the tender half-hardy annuals?

I can't believe how lucky I am to find so many knowledgeable people to ask my questions! Thanx!

dlw,
I used the toilet paper and paper towel rolls to WS my plants that do not like transplanting. I made slits about an inch all around one of the ends, this allows that end to be pushed inwards and create a bottom. Then I fill it with the seed mix, sprinkle the seeds on top, cover with a small amount of vermiculite or seed mix, and place them in a small box or container that will drain and keep them rounded up. Then I placed this container inside the rubbermaid container, that has holes in the bottom for drainage and holes in the clear top to allow ventilation and water in. Does this make sense? I will plant the tube and all when it is time.

so we can actually WS in the toilet paper tubes???
great.....i thought they were for just sowing annuals or inside under lights.

how do we know which plants don't transplant well? i guess i better do some homework!

Hello Everyone!
I am so pleased that I found this place.
After years of "tiny gardens" I have finally both the time and space to do almost anything I want!
I do a great deal of inside starting (in a non - insulated side room) and true winter sowing. I love the challenges that arise the more adventurous I get.
I am also a very skilled pack rat........
Should anyone need toliet paper rolls, or paper towel rolls to make pots, I have bunches & bunches. Would be glad to send them out and cross my fingers for some seeds in return....
Also, I have had great luck in recycling fast food or take home trays. One of my most favorites is the containers from the bakery for donuts, cheesecakes and such.
I think it was in Dec that my Sis wanted some of my purple leaf wandering jew, but said she couldn't have it because they always rot when put in the water to root.
She told me just last week how excited she is because she will have enough to line the entire side walk.
What I did was cut down the side of 2 paper towel rolls, wet the rolls completely, open 1 up and lay the "snips" in the entire length, when filled as much as I wanted, allowing just a tiny bit of the tops to go out the top end, then I opened the other roll and slid it around the one with the starts.
I placed that inside a large jug the g-kids emptied of Juicy Juice - which I cut the bottom on 3 sides - then taped back tightly.
I told her to keep a watch and when the rolls looked like they were getting too dry, unscrew cap and give a little water and seal back up.
She said she had them in the spare bedroom, with filtered east sunlight for 3-4 hrs, and every Wednesday she unscrewed lid and put 2 Tablespoons of water in and sealed it back up. She said the roots are everywhere, and strong & thick, not hairy and wimpy looking.
My Aunt has had good results with getting rose clippings to root that way.
My laundry room is my "garden stuff" room also, and slowly my family has stopped fussing about me saving so many things that make growing fun & free.
***
One question I would like to have answered is...
does anyone else save the baby trees?
My neighbor has a beautiful Maple tree, and a huge black walnut tree and each year my yard is filled with babies that land everywhere. I give them a bit to get strong, then move them to small recycled containers , and take them to the Farmers Market to give away or sometimes sell.
At least they are not getting mowed down, that drives me crazy!
Looking forward to visiting here often!
Gypsy

Hi, Gypsy!
Unfortunately, one cannot just show up at the local markets with stuff to sell or give. You need a licence and to negotiate with the regulars for a spot, etc., etc.
So, I weed, weed, weed!
But a few I save and I bonsai them and then give them away.
Each year's first mowing here is a day of sadness. I put it off as long as I can, but it must be done. And all the primroses and all the (sorry, don't even know the English word) paquerettes , and all the other wild Spring flowers in the meadow we call a lawn are mowed away.
I mentioned once to a neighbour that I found this first mowing sad, and he looked at me like I must be mad!

Wow Tonya - you make me feel REALLY behind since I don't have mine planted yet and you already have that many sprouts!! Why do you have them open in the pic? a warm day? I assume so, otherwise you would leave the top half on - correct??
Unfornately, I started cutting containers and had to help my husband with a project and didn't get one thing actually planted. I have just about decided I don't have TIME to garden!! ^_^ Someone else always occupies my time. My 16 yr old also had his first date Saturday for a Valentine's Ball and I had to stop early to go take pics!!
I HOPE to get something actually PLANTED today!! But today, it is 68 ....this morning!! Day before yesterday it was 42 !! You NEVER know here......

Genna

Gypsy - do you happen to have any pics of the starting method you are describing?? I can't "see" exactly what you mean................. ^_^

Thanks!
Genna

Gypsy, If I understand correctly, you're talking about using a basic WS container as a mini cloner- that's a great idea! I actually had a similar thought last year and did some milk jugs that way with rose cuttings, but stupid me let them over dry and lost all the cuttings. I've been curious if something like that would work for hardwood cuttings that are taken from dormant wood, perhaps even kept outside?

Genna,

I just had the tops open for the photo op, but I have since then potted up the tallest ones which were container sweet peas. They are kinda laying over without the support of the container, but I am hoping they will perk up quickly. I did give them bouts of time with the open top before translplanting them. All of the rest are still snug in their closed containers, although the purple and white hyacinth vines are so big they are really chummy! The soybeans have very big leaves too, so I'm thinking I will put them in the garden as soon as all of them have a set of true leaves and put a makeshift cloche (maybe the milk jugs they came out of) over them if the weather promises to get too cool. I have lots of soybeans so will be potting up some of those for a plant swap, also.

Just WSed some stevia last week, really excited to see how they do as I am hoping to get away from my saccharine habit!

Where did you get the stevia seed?? I need to learn more about that because I have heard it is great! Didn't know it was even possible to grow it (never thought about it!) until I saw on one of the posts someone talking about it................ is it a perennial? Wonder how long til you can harvest it? I need to do some googling I guess.....
Genna

genna, you have dmail!

ok heres my first sprouts..

ok this pic is really bad . it makes me motion sick but its windy and i dont want to go back out . i dont know what these are because i mixed up the labels

Yeah iris! Did you put the pellets in WS containers? I hadn't thought of trying that, although Lynn recently mentioned using TP rolls in a WS container. I guess the concept is the same. Cool.

I'd suggest watching those peat pellets very carefully as weather warms in spring, especially in warm climates. Something that small can dry out really fast. That's why many wintersowing veterans recommend bigger containers which hold a large volume of potting mix to a depth of 3-4 inches.

Karen