May I present you with BirdFiles?

Thanks melody, I found another,

Blackbird Order: Passeriformes

http://davesgarden.com/guides/birdfiles/go/173/

In the case of Sturnus vulgaris, that seems to be the accepted name within many sources, not just US-centric ones. We can also add "Common Starling", if that is a widely-accepted name, or any others that it may go by. (I do think we should stick with English names for birds, just as we do for plants and insects.)

A search for "starling" in the common name field will bring up this entry, whether we list it as European starling and/or common starling, or just plain starling.

But the only way that a search for "European Starling" will yield this bird is if we add that to the common name field.

I don't know anything about the species of birds, etc. but now I can begin my learning about these beautiful creatures.

Starling is only called that here, the RSPB (Royal Society for protectionof Birds) is hte best site to go by.
It would not be correct to add anything else for here at least, and as it is a European bird I see no problem with calling it as it is called here.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/s/starling/index.asp

Sorry I disagree wallaby.

I do agree that all the names should be put in so it would be easier to search for.

So should we dub it both "Starling" and "European Starling" since both names are recognized by international standards?

(There will likely be "flip sides" of this same coin with birds that are common to North America, but may include a regional reference elsewhere, and we will treat them in the same way, so the database is helpful to everyone using it, regardless of where they reside.)

I think both names is a good idea

This is what I meant Terry, that both should be used 'Starling' as well as 'European Starling' and not solely 'European Starling' As a native to Europe I do think the name used here should be used. No-one here calls it European Starling, naturally!

Since there are 5 fields of entry which one gets left blank when entering a new bird?

It seems we have another problem with the Robin. It has been given the name of 'European Robin' which is not correct, it is simply a 'Robin'. This is not in America, so there should not be any confusion with your American Robin, which is not a true Robin.

The name should also have a capital, but with the word 'European' removed also.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/birdfiles/go/158/

http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/r/robin/index.asp

This message was edited Dec 26, 2008 8:04 PM

Thank you Dave for this wonderful new forum!!!:)))

I've entered a couple of birds without filling in the order.
I did that because the first time I tried to fill it in it didn't work..
I wish I knew how to fill it in now after my entrances..

I've been catching several today...check and see if yours are among them.

A search for "robin" brings up both entries: http://davesgarden.com/guides/birdfiles/adv_search.php?searcher[common]=robin&searcher[birdorder]=&searcher[family]=&searcher[genus]=&searcher[species]=&Search=Search

Both of these appear to be in accordance with other citations. It's important to remember that someone looking up a bird by its common name may be from anywhere in the world. As such, to use just "robin" for both birds could be confusing to a non-European or American reader, who wouldn't necessarily know the difference between the two.

As to proper capitalization. This is an ongoing concern that was started "way back when" PlantFiles was begun. I plead guilty to having kept up the tradition of proper capitalization of vernacular names, and now we're a bit "stuck" with the format that we have.

At some point, we may be able to systematically convert every common name field to lower-case, then manually adjust those whose names require some capitalization.

But for now, let's keep the same structure we've used elsewhere, since there aren't strict guidelines for vernacular names, like those that apply to scientific nomenclature.

Terry, my suggestion was not to use 'Robin' for both. I think most people in the US know that your Robin is called an 'American Robin'. They are different famiies, yours belonging to the same family as Blackbirds and Thrushes.

Muscicapidae is the Family. No-one here calls it the European Robin as that is not what it is called.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_robin



This message was edited Dec 26, 2008 8:32 PM

This message was edited Dec 26, 2008 8:43 PM

YAY!!!

I am all for correct names, but lets don't get to stuffy about it or must of us and especially newbies, will find it totally useless ...

agree with wallaby on that one!!

This message was edited Dec 26, 2008 3:35 PM

My neighbor just calls them "the birds with the brown stomach"...has absolutely no idea of anything resembling a name....and she's a teacher's aid!

I should have said the Family was Muscicapidae for our Robin.

The Order is Passeriformes

As nanny says, people on the Bird Forum are well aware of this usage of Common names.

May I bring to notice that the Family used on our Robin page is not 'Turdidae'

Terry, the entry for you Robin has the common name 'American Robin' so there should be no problem, repeating, ours is not a European Robin.

This message was edited Dec 26, 2008 8:47 PM

I kind of agree with both of you. Although folks on the Bird Watching forum are aware of this what about newbie bird people?

I agree Resin would be great for the new bird addition!

Most people searching will be looking for a picture identifying their particular Robin. Since both show in a search, all the better to help with an ID, no? And since they both look very different, they should both remain where they are.

I think calling them both Robin would be way too confusing.

A newbie might not know what either looks like.

Where is resin when I need him, lol. The RSPB, nor any other authority here call the Robin 'European Robin'

As a search would still bring up both entires, surely there would still be no problem.

As you will see with a google for the species name, the only sites fererring to 'European Robin' are Wiki, which clarifies that it is not called that here, and an American site.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Erithacus+rubecula&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Another one needing an Order, as well as a capital in 'Swan'

Mute Swan, Order: Anseriformes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mute_Swan

http://davesgarden.com/guides/birdfiles/go/160/

So the vernacular name shouldn't be capitalized? I'm confused about that. Why wouldn't 'it be?

Also, concerning hyphens in the common name, If you search for White-throated Sparrow it brings up this entry: http://davesgarden.com/guides/birdfiles/go/83/

If you search for White Throated Sparrow, it brings up this entry: http://davesgarden.com/guides/birdfiles/go/19/

In PlantFiles, I've been removing the hyphens from the common name because the search doesn't bring up the entry if it's also listed without the hyphens. Most people doing a search wouldn't naturally put in the hyphens. As you can see, it leads to duplicate entries.

Thanks for the Christmas present Dave!


Woudl like to add my voice too Resin overseeign the Bird Files. You can bet they will be correct for sure and dependable once they get up and going and there are files to monitor.

Joan, the Common names should be capitalised in every word except where it is hyphenated, then of course only the beginning of the hyphenated word is capitalised. To find which should be used out of the two you should consult your most trusted bird sites.

I'd just like to remind everyone that DG is a global website. Yes we don't call it the 'European' robin, but surely we should consider everyone else in the world.. The Americans don't call theirs the 'American' robin but I can tell you that when I lived there no-one had any idea that our robins were different!

I hope we don't get too hung up on the technicalities - there are plenty of other websites out there devoted to bird nomenclature. Let's just try and enjoy everyone's contributions.

Peace, Sue

Sue, it's not really a matter of getting hung up, it's a matter of correctness. I know most Americans don't call it the American Robin, but the fact is that is the proper name as it was named after the Robin in Europe because of it's bright breast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Robin

I think because the Starling had 'European' tacked onto the name in the US then it has followed with other birds, but it is not correct.

First and last names capitalized. (American Birds from Cornell and all Bird Guides)

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Scissor-tailed_Flycatcher.html

Hi Sue! ^_^

Or all names which are not hyphenated pelle, I don't know if there are some with more than two but there could be.

As Cornell is an authoroty, they also use American Robin.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/American_Robin.html

As the RSPB here or any other bird site uses Robin.

Where shall I put Tree Swallow Tachycineta bicolor ? A new category or just put in barn swallow - it's a Tree Swallow. Just want to put in correct spot and thanks

Dea, as a separate species it should have its own entry.

t'anks :)

Thanks Melody! I see you have added the Order of the Pica pica!

The ones that are still missing the order are;

Black-headed gull (Chroicocephalus ridibundus)
Common Wood Pigeon (Columba palumbus)
Blue Tit (Parus caeruleus)
Eurasian Collard Dove (Streptopelia decaocto)
Tawny Owl (Strix aluco)

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Thanks Resin for volunteering to moderate the Bird Files!!

Thank You Dave! What a WONDERFUL addition to this great web site! I know Bird Files will be just as popular as Plant Files (for me at least!)

I have all of them corrected but the Blue Tit. We have 2 entries for it. I need to determine which name is the most recently accepted.