First time WS II

Cheles~ I hope your daughter keeps in touch with her friend. Perhaps she could share gardening photos and all things Japanese and vice versa. I can still remember the peaceful serene gardens in Japan, very clean lines and rock sculptures, ummm...I think it's really my parents' homemade movies and photos that help me to remember them well.

Karen~ I can understand the concern about international seed trading.. there were some flowers and tree seeds that I wanted to bring back to the USA , but chose not to and I'm glad I didn't...I would have been one of those gardeners spewing invasive thug weed seeds all over the neighborhood. That's why I love Dave's. I definitely have learned more about invasive and aggressive growth habits of more plants than ever since I've joined. I do try to be a more responsible gardener especially when W/Sing asI really have had quantum leap successes in propagation...and some dud failures as well.

Well, I did get a couple of big containers ready for Walla Walla Sweets. I sure hope they work out!

Regarding getting enough milk jugs . . . be careful what you wish for! I begged, scrounged, etc. as many jugs as I could lay my hands on - with the result that I had way too many plants to really deal with properly. I was still planting stuff out in September!

I now believe it is much better to do, say 10 jugs. The numbers of plants will still be staggering.

Seandor - I was wondering that myself. My girls go through 3 gals of milk every week........after 5 weeks, 15 didn't sound like very many. However, I can still be WS in Feb-March and adding up another 12 weeks of 36 more jugs + 15........I'll be over 50 before I know it.

For those of you who have divided the milk jugs with two different plants: when it's time to tranplant, is there ever a problem of the roots being tangled? I guess if you're planting a tender plant you would keep it in its own container. Thinking out loud here. LOL

I usually have about 100+vegetable plants started indoors in the Spring. If I can keep everything outdoors, Ms Marta will be MUCH happier.

However, NOW Seandor tells me that the 100+ pots I have planned for WS flowers may be too many! If (s)he was still planting out in September, I will NEVER finish!

It's certainly not that I need any more seeds, but it would be fun if we all kept in touch over the Spring and Summer ans at this time next year could have our own seed swap with each one contributing the seeds that worked best for them this year.

I do know how Karen feels about the swaps. I try to see if something I have is considered invasive somewhere else and not send it. That has sometimes meant not swapping seeds from some plants I really love and that work just fine for me but might be a problem for others. Sometimes I have received seeds of plants that, when I look them up, I discover they are considered "evil weeds", and those I usually destroy. Too bad! But, having to fight field bindweed and horsetail all year, every year, better safe than sorry!

Jim I do 50-60 veggies inside as well. I will try to WS tomatoes this year but my peppers (lots) I have to start in Feb & March. That is in addition to the WS flowers. I believe I'm going to have my hands full.

cheles: when do you put your pepper plants out? I can't get mine outside before about 15 May, so I have learned that starting them before 15 March (at the very earliest) is counter-productive. At least in my garden, I learned (at first by accident, but later had pepper-holics tell me it's "generally true") that strong, small pepper plants only about 4-6 weeks old will quickly catch up to and often overtake(!!!) older plants that may have become root-bound. Oddly, enough, because peppers are perennials, I sometimes dig plants before frost and keep them indoors over the winter (especially hybrids whose seeds are outrageously expensive and can't be saved!), and those plants always take off like mad at the first sign of warm weather!

I checked and I have seed for 4 of the flowers in that photo. Only one (the Rudbeckia hirta, an American wildflower probably once found in fields in Ohio) is invasive. [I know this because not only is it now growing in my rapsberries but my neighbours now have it in their garden, and I only planted it once, in a wildflower/butterfly garden mix I briadcast on my "prairie"!]. The others are the 'Black-eyed Susan" (Rudbeckia fulgida 'Goldsturm'), which is a perennial and does spread but seems not to re-seed freely; the Russell Lupine (which crosses so freely that even the seed I collected from this pin-and-white one might come out any colour of the lupine rainbow); and the Coral Bells Heuchera Brizoides 'Pleu de Feu'. Any of these could be WS, although I don't think any of them need it, even the lupines. I could send seeds so your kids could WS and grow these 'French" flowers if you want.

Jim - how sweet of you - they would LOVE that! I do a lot of container gardening so they asked for their "own" flowers and pots next year. In fact they will even have their own strawberry plants and cherry tomatoes - that way if I grown my own, I can have some too. :-) They would dart out early in the morning and harvest everything. One morning I can in with 8 little bell peppers and then went back out to harvest some more. When I got back in my 4yo had eaten all 8 of them like an apple. LOL! I do have a couple Rudbeckias but not the "goldsturm".

As for peppers......this past year I did them all in containers and that might have had some impact on my results. I didn't get them started until April 1st. I start putting them outside around the 1st of May, but being in containers I can move them in and out - if a frost is coming. I also have an unheated sunroom where they get transferred to early. I continue to repot them into larger containers as they grow. But, this year because of the late seed starting I had one plant (tobasco) that was just starting to bloom come fall frost. I did move it inside but I know I didn't get any harvest like I should have. I did have an early bloomer that put on a second wave of blooms - I had cut it back thinking it was done. :-) So my tobasco's this year I am starting much earlier but some will wait until March-April.

So tell me more about bringing them in. I finally just threw mine in the compost. Do they kind of go dormant and not produce? Do you just keep them like a houseplant until next Spring and then put them back out? I'm intrigued as I have always started over each year.

Meant to add: for anyone interested in peppers, Critter is going to have a pepper co-op http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/928792/ however, you can't WS these so I guess I'm off topic again. ^_^

Jim: If I might pipe in here, I like your idea of our keeping seeds of what WS'd best for us and your warning about the invasiveness is well considered. However, what might not be invasive for me may well be invasive in your area, so if I know something is invasive for me, I would not want to share it, but it is incumbent upon the recipient to also know invasive species for his or her area and not request seeds of that plant.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Well, last year I winter sowed over 100 different kinds of plants. It was nuts. Honestly, after a while it becomes compulsive!

I have a better plan this year. I am going to have Sunday afternoon get-to-gethers with neighbours and friends. I hope to get five or six people interested. If each w/s 5 milk jugs we will have 25 or more varieties of perennials to share - plenty of plants to share between 6 or 7 people (I want some too!). (and if some are enthsiastic - maybe they will do 10 jugs!)

I will probably still do about 20 or so varieties - but then I have a good idea of what to expect

There are some hardy annuals we can do - batchelor buttons and poppies, but generally it is better to start annuals inside if we want to see blooms before late August.

There is so much to reply to here that I just hope I can get to it all before the next post comes in!!
This is surely not "slow days iver the garden fence", is it, pajaritomt?

Angie's point is a good one: what is not "invasive" here may be chez vous, and visa versa. My best solution was in my Post #5904680: Don't send seeds of plants you know to be invasive; and do some basic research. In the US, for example, the USDA maintains a database of "invasive" plants, Very easy to check.

Still, some experiential discretion is called for. Some plants are so invasive that if you spot one, turn your back to chat and then turn back before killing it, it has sown 950 million offspring. [You think I am joking? Turn your back on bindweed!] Other plants called "invasive" just slowly "spread", ususally by roots or rhizomes. A final few others (Karen's nightmares!) are "sweethearts" at home, but are "killers" when let loose where they have not natural controls. Kudzu is the one that immediately comes to mind.

Cheles, I see you are in the address exchange. What are your children's names?
I'm off to bed, but I'll send seeds quickly.

Jim

Seandor,

You may be as crazy as I.

Potagere

Seandor, thanks for your advice! I was going through some recommendations for plants for cottage gardens and even my list was getting a little compulsive ("DGer thinks hollyhocks are the most cottagey of all plants, MUST have it!") The only seeds I have right now are those that were sent by DGers and now I'm thinking I ought to just stick with those until I get some idea of the volume of plants these packets of seeds will produce. Maybe this will help...

I, GreenerBeaner, hereby declare that I will not buy a flower seed packet this planting season, so help me God.

There. Hopefully that will keep me honest!

Although I did find a really good deal on that cappuccino rudbeckia....

I have personally edited this post to remove my comments that are inappropriate to this forum.
I also apologize for having posted them in the first place.

This message was edited Dec 19, 2008 9:56 AM

GB - I wish that would work for me. I know I don't have room for everything I want to plant. I keep telling myself that I can put it in a container or a basket. But the catalogs keep coming.......HELP! The flowers just looks so pretty this time of year while I'm surrounded by grey and brown. Even the sky 80% of the time. :-( Maybe I should visit our botanical gardens. hhhhmmmmm.........

Jim - just sent you a dmail with my girls names. Thank you! I think I'm going to have to lower my garden gate - as mine is 6 feet tall, kind of hard to talk over. Except when my neighbor is on his deck and can see into my yard. Hee hee.

Re Jim's comments about religion and politics, I think we need to stick to gardening issues as that is our common ground, so to speak, and we can appreciate each other's differences as gardeners much more easily than our views on those two very volatile subjects.

Our love of flora and fauna is what brings us together. Let's simply focus on that.

Thats right Hem. Let's not ruin a good thing.!!!! BEV

Because weather conditions are good for the next few days, I will start WS tomorrow. The last weeks I filled all my containers with earth. I prepared the plant labels. After that I made a plan. Last week I watered the containers. And than it started freezing, so I could not sow (all the containers are in my unheated greenhouse and the earth was frozen) But now temperatures will be about 4°C - 6°C for the next few days.
I will not tell you how many different plants I will try to wintersow, you would laugh at me.
I see it as a challenge.
Here in Belgium we do not have those wunderfull milk jugs, so I had to find other things to sow the seeds in. I have a few different things and time will tell me what is okay and what is not.
Hope to make pictures to show you. I might forget it, because when I'm busy with seeds or plants I forget everything, haha.

Well, Potagere, actually not. Dave has banned people from the forum, but I am not sure if he has banned them over religious talk or political talk, but he certainly has that option.
I have noticed much Christianity on DG as you point out, but , as in the rest of the US, I don't know how much tolerance there would be of other belief systems and would hesitate to argue with the dominant Christians on DG. I prefer to keep my beliefs to myself and hopefully, set the kind of example I believe in. And one thing I don't believe in is evangelism for religion or for anything else.

If we are kind to each other, it makes no difference if you are a buddhist, christian, muslim, atheist, or anything else. The garden units us.

"The garden unites us"
Jonna has given us a slogan we can live with!
I like it very much!!!



This message was edited Dec 19, 2008 9:57 AM

This is a gardening forum. The internet is full of other forums with other topics.

Thanks, claypa. You are absolutely right!
I better get back to my WS before I let myself prattle on.
I sure have enough of that to keep me busy!

Good luck Jonna! I hope you have fun putting your seeds in.

Last weekend our temps were in the mid 70s F, then during the week we got down to below freezing with some "freezing fog" (I've never even heard of that!) and freezing rain, and now I've just read that we are headed back up into the 70s F this weekend! I'm going to need to wait longer so my poor little seeds don't get as confused as I am about what season we are in here.

-GB

I've been busy and unable to check in for a few days, seems I missed a lot.

I've never tried starting multiple seed types in the same containers but I do know that some have tried it and had problems. Namely, seeds sprouting and growing and different rates and needing different plant-out times. It might be wise to keep this in mind in choosing seed type to plant together. I.e. bachelor buttons and poppies both germinate and low temps and can both be planted out early. This combo might be a better choice than poppies and zinnias which would likely be on way different schedules of sprouting, growing, and plant out. Just something to consider.

Karen

Oh, good points Karen. I hadn't thought of that! I can see where it would be hard to contain only half a milk jug of soil if it's neigbor has already been planted. So glad you pointed that out before I made any haphazard milk jug buddies.

Tonya

Well, I am sure not confused about what season I am in. I am stinkin COLD. :(

Just had to grump a bit. Off to look at pretty pictures of flowers. Oh wait... and wrap presents, I forgot about that. Got to get that done too. HA!

LissaD - I'm sorry you're so cold! I didn't mean to gloat, mostly I'm annoyed that we just can't get on with Winter already! As nice as it can be to have an extended Fall, 67F on Christmas just doesn't feel right to me...

Well, I have a little good news! There is a 2 foot pile of mulch where a 50 ft giant dead elm used to stand in our backyard, making it unsafe for us to spend too much time out there (especially with DD) until yesterday. I feel so free! DH and I walked off where we're going to put the "I'm addicted to DG seeds" flower bed along the Southern side of a fence. Now that I know I'll have the space for all these flowers (maybe) I am officially retracting my promise to not buy seeds. HA! That didn't last long...

Any ideas for how to start this bed? i just finished a wood scrap/chicken wire compost bin so I won't have to buy a ton of amended soil and I'm trying to think of a pretty way to raise the bed up about 6 inches (since our clay is unfriendly to plants). DH thought maybe we could start the bed the way we started our raised veg garden - layer wet newspaper right over grass and cover with a little soil and then leaves and fill in with compost before we plant in Spring. What do you recommend?

-GB

That sounds good, but if you want the bed to stay in place, can you find enough nice sized stones around your area to create a 6-8" high border?

I have heard a lot about those lasagna type beds where you just pile the stuff up on top of the newspapers. I imagine they would work well for flowers too.

I have to dig out tree seedlings here, so I have to go in and dig stuff out, then replace it. I do need a compost bin though with an acre of cottonwood trees I have an abundance of leaves, and all the free manure I need too in this area. I just have no idea how to put it all together!

: )

Now see GB we need the before and after pictures of your DG garden. Because come July and August it is going to be full of flowers.

I love Texas actually, I lived in Tucson AZ for 14 years and I actually LOVE the heat. So, for me anything below 80 degrees is cold. I am a wimp. You all (or should I say y'all) have the humidity too that I am not used to though. We have vacationed in San Antonio and the humidity didn't really bother me much.

LissaD, a compost pile is a no brainer. You are lucky to have the leaves around here. You don't need a structure to hold it. You can just pile 6 inches of leaves, wet them thoroughly, then pile about 6 inches of manure, and wet it down as well. Repeat until it is as high as you can make it. Keeping it moist is essential. The bigger the pile the more better it rots. It will even heat up and steam if you make it really big. Mine tend to be about 6 ft. in diameter and about 4 to 5 ft. high. In warm weather the worms will come and start munching and bacteria will eat the manure and leaves and mold as well.
If you have lots of energy you can turn it every time the temperature begins to fall -- I have a long thermometer ordered from Johnny's Seeds for that purpose. But you can also just put your hand into the pile to test the temp.
If you turn the pile over, air gets in to feed the worms, mold and bacteria and they start growing faster again. You can turn as many times as you have the energy to do so.
Eventually you will have a pile of something that looks like fine black soil that can be mixed in when you plant things or layered on top of your soil as a fertilizer. It is the best fertilizer I have ever found. It is natures way and totally free.
The heat of the pile will kill weed seeds, but leaving them to rot for a couple of years in a non-heating pile reduces weed seed, too as far as I can tell. They start to germinate, then rot if the pile is good and wet.
But with ample amounts of manure available you shouldn't have any trouble making a heating pile. And remember, you can't have too much compost.

Thanks Paja, I have read about all kinds of different "containers" for making compost. But, as you know, we have lots of room. I can certainly pile it up out back and not worry about it. Thanks for the tips.

You are welcome, LissaD. I have containers, but my compost matures more quickly in a great big pile.

Lasagna beds are the best- easy, cheap (free), wonderful soil

Karen

I remember you all discussing paint pens on the last thread. I found them at the Flower Factory for $1.95 for black and $2.15 for Gold Metallic - I know not everybody has these around but I think you can order online from them too.

I think it is because english is not my mother language I do not quite understand the Lasagna beds.
How thick must every layer be?
And the leaves, what kind of leaves? I have some leaves on my compost pile that did not compost at all, they still are the same after 2 years.

Wow, this thread is getting really long.
GB and NbGard and any one that lives in Texas there is really no reason to start poppy seeds in doors they, like most Wildflowers need the freeze-thaw cycle to germinate and thrive. Corn poppies, and Ca poppies are the only types that do very well here, Icelandic and oriental poppies don;t care for the heat, at least that has been my experience.

The only plants I regularly start inside are Zinnas, cosmo, sunflowers and maybe morning glories and then I put them out as soon as the danger of any frost has passed. Also, in our area this is the time to sow sweet peas and Holley hocks outside. They with stand the cold but I don't know how.
Lisa

Jonna: I don't understand why your leaves aren't composted after 2 years. What kind of leaves? Is your compost hot? Do you actively manage it, keep it moist and aerated, etc? My leaves break down in a matter of months.

You can pile materials on lasagna at any height you wish- the more stuff the better. Some people make them several feet high, mine usually have been 8 to 12" high (Due to limited materials at the time) and done well. Also, you can plant in lasagna layers immediately.

Karen

Could be oak leaves, they can take a while.......

Welp, my little comedy of errors has continued, to the point I figured not only my AngelCat Simon in cat heaven, but also the Spirit of WinterSowing Past and the actual seeds their own selves were all having belly laughs watching me try to fix my mistake of not leaving headroom in the yogurt containers.

Fortunately, the soil in all the containers is frozen solid so pretty much nothing I do, I figure, is going to hurt the process right now, no matter how clumsy I may be.

Also unfortunately, the soil in all the containers is frozen solid, so my first plan, of sliding other containers into the edges of the already planted ones, piggy-backing upwards to create the desired headroom, didn't work very well. I ended up with the second containers just sitting up on top of the planted ones, barely tacked in place with duct tape (because it was too cold out there to do a more thorough taping job, for one thing.) I know, there is a better way to do this. But those were all the containers I had, already cut up, so I continued in my folly even after realizing it was not working out very well. At least I achieved headroom, if not stability, in that first phase of fix-it-ing.

However, I believe I have solved it, with persistence if not with elegance and efficiency. Leaving the topple-prone towers of the second containers in place (they were capped with the original lids with the centers cut out and "hole-y" plastic underneath) I put gallon sized ziplock plastic bags over each assemblage, sealed at the bottom, taped to the bottom container, with generous holes cut in top for ventilation and moisture flow. I will for sure have to bottom-water these, when watering becomes an issue.

sheesh.

But hey, I do think it is going to work and I will not be very likely to forget about headroom in the future, you betcha.