First time WS II

Thanks, GB ~~ It actually started to snow as soon as I got indoors from setting everybody down outside. ;-)

but I made a beginners mistake, too, I forgot about head room on the yogurt containers..... so will have to figure something out to dome them up. I'll try ziplock bags first, probably, taped around the sides I guess.... oh well.

My pleasure, texasrockgarden. I got curious.

This is my sec yr at this and I went ahead and sowed my canna seeds the 6th of Dec and they are already touching the top of the tray cover. I will up pot them inro plastic cups but don't think they will be able to make it till May. BEV

Oh no! So sorry to hear about your cannas, Bev. Do you have any seeds left that you could start now? I'm so nervous about starting things too early that I think I might wait until early Feb to start most of the flowers I've received and then put out veggie seeds early/mid March.

Does anyone else have a similar/different game plan?

-GB

Trudi's rule of thumb is that WSing begins on the winter solstice- Dec. 21, and we're not there yet. I don't start until at least January, for this very reason. The weather isn't consistently wintery until then, things can sprout prematurely.

And about the headroom in the containers, really, nothing beats milk jugs and 2 liters or similar sized containers if you can get them. Soil depth, soil volume, headroom, drainage- IMO, the jugs win in all categories hands down.

Karen

No I don't have anymore seeds and these were from cannas that I grew from seed last winter and those did alright starting them in Jan. I have plenty of ryzomes from them so it is ok. Just wanted to see what these woud do. BEV

These I start inside in my aquarium. I also have daylilies sprouting and red yucca and hosta that are not up yet. Bev

Kyla: Thanks for reminding me about the Walla Wallas!! One of the things I really miss here and with which I have had only limited luck growing from seed. As soon as I can, I'm going to WS a pot or 2!

I'm being bold here in my WS. We're just a few days off the WS (Winter Solstice); and short of really, truly serious climate change, there won't be anything but consistent winter here between now and then!
Illinois mist have gotten some WARM weather, or those cannas are REALLY hardy!

As for "headroom" and Kyla's yogurt containers: 1. You don't need headroom right now, so why not just lay a window screen or something like it (here, we can buy aluminum "grill trays" that have holes to allow the grease to grip while grilling meats) over the box for now; just something to keep birds out but let in air and rain/snow (the problem I foresee with the ziplocks is no air circulation, so moss and fungus!!!). 2. Eat more yogurt, then cut the bottoms off the "new" containers", set them "inside" the "old" ones (hold them on with duct tape or twist-'ems) and treat them like ice cream containers as shown on the "sticky". You double the height and don't need to replant or find new solutions.

Just some ideas.

This message was edited Dec 15, 2008 2:41 PM

This will be my first year to try this.
Is there a thread that just gives the basics on how to do this and when to start?

Thank you

happgarden: The "sticky" thread at the top of the wintersowing forum has a lot of information. You can also gain a lot by browsing old threads. Probably the most complete info can be found on Trudi Davidoff's site, wintersown.org

Tridi's site: http://wintersown.org/

Karen

I think you can start WS up to 2 months before you would normally plant directly in the ground. It is better to have the jugs sit directly at ground level to get the heat from the ground and along a building or fence.

Here's a little info on snow. Make sure you pile it on.

What about snow and concern of what it would do to plants/seedlings; I thought I would share a little observation that I stumbled on. "Snow is a good insulator". Anyone who gardens in the North, probably heard this numerous times and even repeated the statement to others, without knowing how much of a difference the snow really makes. I had put a remote temperature sensor in a flower bed in late fall. It was has become our favorite gauge of the temperature outside, since the display is on the base unit in the house. Until now, it seemed to be more accurate than the big thermometer hanging off the garage outside west facing wall. We have had mild temperatures and no snow cover all season. In our climate, we get big swings in temperature from the Chinooks. Our snow cover melts and often we are hit with a deep freeze, leaving plant material exposed.

The recent huge snow fall & mild temperatures provided a very good insulating blanket for our recent dip into the -20's Celsius (-4F). We had lots of snow with day of mild just below freezing temps and then hit with very cold arctic air. We have had another weather system move in with more snow and very cold arctic air. I had noticed that even though the temperature was dropping significantly and quickly, the remote sensor was not really changing. The remote sensor is about 3 inches above ground level. The moisture probe is in ground. The temp out side -20C (-4F)as per the hanging thermometer. The remote reads: -4C (25F). Thats with 6" of snow cover. I didn't realize how much of a difference the snow cover makes. At -34C or -30F the temp under the snow is -8C or 18F. Very interesting. Of course the depth of snow & density will affect the insulation value. The more you pile on, the better. Make sure you have drain holes for the meltdown.

I certainly will be more diligent on shoveling the snow on the flower beds in the future. It not only provides future moisture, the insulating value is huge.
Some official info: [HYPERLINK@atlas.nrcan.gc.ca]


This message was edited Dec 15, 2008 7:42 AM

So Bev, these are plants you started inside hoping for them to sprout already right? Not the ones outside in containers? I also have canna seeds to sow, but they are the only ones I have! I don't want to risk them popping up too early if they sprout that easy.

I have quite a few morning glory seeds. I am tempted to start a couple inside and hang them in a pot from the window. I did test test a few of my red yucca and catalpa tree seeds for germination, that was fun. It took awhile and nothing was happening in the window so I moved them to some bricks under our woodstove, and they popped out within a few days. It was a little warmer there ;).

Hi Potagere, Jim.
I have had good luck with Walla Walla's here in New Mexico even though the Walla Walla is a long day onion and our days aren't really long enough. You should b able to grow them there. I use plants mailed to me in the spring, but another thing that I read about and have had luck with several years -- to get early walla wallas is to plant the seed in the fall in time for it to germinate and start to grow. It winters over nicely -- even in our dry climate and poor soil. I have never been able to get other onions to do this. Then it starts growing like mad in the spring and produces big bulbs earlier than the spring planted ones.
I, too, love Walla Wallas but one year, inexplicably mine did nothing -- these were the ordered plants. I never figured out why and have never had any trouble since.

Hi all, nice to see so many posts this morning! (morning for me anyways.....)

Jim, LOL, "eat more yogurt". hahaha Actually that is the solution I decided on late last night when I realized the plastic bag fix would not work as any amount of rain or snow would crush the little seedlings. So later today I will see how many containers I have around, probably nearly enough. Cut slits cut out bottoms, put plastic over, and slide them on. But of course there is no big rush as you also pointed out.

I can see how the milk jugs are totally superior and yet, all I had managed to accumulate were the 7 and that was just not enough! So I am making do.

Right now we have freezing temps all week and snow showers continuing tho not much buildup (an inch or so right here locally) but tomorrow for example it is forecast to drop to 9 degrees F. So I don't think I am too early!

Karen, I was originally planning to sow on Solstice as the "official instructions" recommend, but yesterday felt like the better day to begin for several reasons. I feel quite certain we will not be having any significantly warmer weather before solstice now anyway, and those little babies out there are for sure frozen up nicely!

Some of the seeds I put out there, such as the morning glory, basil, money plant, maybe a few others, are ones I would ordinarily have "scarified" in order to break in to that hard coat. I am trusting that the freeze and stratification process will serve instead..... and hey, this is an experiment, I expect to continue to learn a lot!

And Jim, I got the Walla Walla seeds from Pinetree.... I am embarrassed right now not to have seeds to sh are and trade like so many others do but h aving just moved across the country I am starting from scratch in many ways including seeds! My previous place I only had containers and did not save many seeds -- most of what I did save was not suitable for this climate here so I did not bring but a little bit with me.

Next year however, if we are all still spinning on the same Garden, I expect to have enough to share and then some.

Kyla

I can't imagine how folks find time to sow by Dec 21, four days before Christmas, yet alone earlier. Work is a madhouse at that time of year, Christmas parties going on, wrapping gifts, finishing last minute Christmas cards, cooking, grocery shopping ... the list goes on. I never start sowing until January for many reasons. But then, I'm a procrastinator in most aspects of life, for sure.

Karen

I'm sorry to reply so late, Potagere/Jim. I had to leave due to death in family. I will attempt to edit as soon as possible. I took a quick break from work to check the forum but really must stay focussed on work today!

Lissa, Answered you and then lost it. I started my cannas and other things in the aquarium last yr. in mid Jan and all was fine. I soaked the canna seed this yr. and that is why they are up so early too. I sowed them the 6th of Dec. They will be up potted to 8oz cups and put on the bottom of the aquarium so may be will last until May tho I dought it. These were seed from the ones that I grew from seed last yr. I have ryzomes from them but would like to see what these would be. Yes they are in the house. BEV

Terri, I am so sorry to hear that! Don't edit; just take care.

Kyla, I actually got my seeds from Walla Walla (near home for me!) Glad the "eat more yogurt" idea made sense.

Karen:

Terri, sorry for your loss.......

About timing, the time after Christmas, the first week or so of January actually, after all the hullaballoo has stopped, would be a fabulous time to get WS started. I just happened to have things line up for Sunday this past, is all. So, went for it! Also I have managed to take the madhouse out of Christmas in my life.... but I know it gets that way for many and many seem to enjoy it.

As for eating more yogurt, I counted up and I actually have enough containers sitting around already to fix my boo boo. But not today. ;-)

I'm sorry for your loss, too, Terry. I hope you're feeling OK.

Jim: Are you old enough to be retired, or lucky enough to be a stay-at-home Mr. Mom? I work part-time at an outpatient surgery center, putting patients to sleep. At the end of the year, people often try to squeeze elective surgery into the current year because it's often preferable for insurance purposes. So if past years experience repeats again, I'll stay busy right up to December 31.

I've been to 2 Christmas parties so far this year, at least one more coming up that I know of. As for grocery shopping and cooking, that's my own doing. My son (who lives in Seattle) will be home to visit. So I'll stock the house full of everything he likes to eat, and cook all of his favorite dishes, much more than necessary. My son is a 28 year old bachelor who doesn't cook much. When you get right down to it, we don't keep much food in the house normally for my husband and me, and I don't generally cook all that much either. I try to make up for that when my son comes to visit.

In recent years I have done a lot of my Christmas shopping online. This year, for some reason, I bought more locally.

Karen

Hey Karen,

I regret to announce to you and sundry that I AM old enough to be retired.

Even while working, for the last 20 years I have also been chief cook and bottle washer. "Lucky"? Well, it's a crap shoot.

Ms Marta is both smarter and far more ambitious than I. So she does better out there in "corporate land" than I do. I'm a better cook and home manager than she is. So I do better in "over the fence" relationships than she does.

In the best of ways, we're both "lucky". "Lucky" because we know and accept who we are; "lucky" because we have partners that complement each other; and lucky because we can both do what we do best within a loving relationship and don't really give a FF what anyone else thinks about how we do things!

I remember my (relative) youth in the Emergency Room, with its "Sturm und Drang", especially at this time of year. I empathize with your days in OR.

I've been a long time away, however, so this American compulsion to "celebrate" holidays well in advance now strikes me as an aberration.

Seattle is "home" to us. We wish we were there.
Our 40-year-old son will be spending his 1st Christmas in 20+ years with us. We are hoping to make it special (without going overboard!)

Ms Marta claims he (our son) is a better cook than I; so I am hoping to abdicate some responsibility while he is here (Fat Chance!)

Online shopping, especially when giver and recipient live continents apart, works great for the holidays!

Actually, retirement sounds pretty good to me most of the time. "Sturm un drang"??? What's that?

I think Washington state is beautful. I understand why my son likes living there so much.

Karen

Jim: I second what Karen said about retirement. I am so ready for it! Maybe just a couple more years (dreaming and smiling).

Karen: you have your hands full, I'm sure. I was never meant to be a nurse or in the medical profession! The judicial system is killing me, though.

Angie

Karen,
Spend an hour in an ER
Try to listen to Wagner for 10 minutes
Google it.
I even thought it was American!

Dragonfly~ if your canna outgrows the aquarium, you can grow your cannas indoors as a houseplant till you transplant it outside in late Spring. That's what I did one year and they survived just fine in a sunny window.

I know garden thanks but my kitten would tare them up so have no place to put them. BEV

In that case don't want the kitty playing jungle with the canna. I know you have several rhizomes, but I do have several canna seeds (Indian shot, red with yellow) that you or anyone else are more than welcome to. ;0)

It has become very cold here & the pets are going stir crazy. They (cat & dog) usually spend most of the day outside. Bad Smokey!

Smokey is definitely playing jungle with your plants Joanna!

I hear you Jo South. The crazy ole cat is hiding in the cupboard just in case I think he should go outside.

It's interesting to me to see all the cat lovers out there. I have always been drawn to cats and we've always had them. They're so smart, no one believes me when I tell them the things my cats do. I know all you other cat people understand what I mean. Here's our three caught on the bed together: Castor (white) Lucky (orange or beige) and Rosie (Maine coon). They do consent to share the bed with us at night so we can keep them warm. Rosie and Castor hate each other; Rosie and Lucky tolerate each other. Rosie would prefer to be the only cat in the world or at least in our house. I swear she thinks she's a person!

They are all, at best, pre-adolescents, Angie!
Drive us crazy with their "She looked at me, Mom!"

They are so cute and Rosie looks so relaxed. Queen of her world!

I believe cats are endlessly amused by our human folly. I know my old fella, Simon, always was quite the wry commentator on my foibles. Sadly, he is no longer around to set me straight.

It is really too bad as he would get quite a lot of mileage out of the comedy of errors my WSing has become.

Paint pens arrived. Snow melted earlier , and I noticed my temporary labels were already starting to fade a bit with damp, but thought, oh well, tomorrow I'll get out there and deal with it.

Just now looked out and there is more snow falling (duh) After a few minutes I thought what the heck, hurriedly opened box with paint pens, shook down the ink in one, put on glasses, clogs, grabbed flashlight and paint pen, went out and brushed an inch of snow off the three trays with labels facing straight up and wrote the names on while I could still make out the original.

Simon is silently laughing at me in that straight-faced way cats do, from his pleasant perch in cat heaven, you may be sure.

;-)

I'm sure Simon got quite a cat chuckle from your antics! Glad you got those labels re-marked while you could read them.

I'm a little worried right now that I won't have enough milk jugs when early Feb comes around. I was planning on just shamelessly going through recycling bins if Feb came and I was short, but now our town has a recycling incentive program that weighs each home's recycling and sets up a reward account where you can accumulate points and redeem them for coupons. Totally cool and green, but inconvenient for a burgeoning milk-jug thief. Have you all had any luck finding creative places/people to collect them from?

Thanks,

GB

GB I would talk to a nearby preschool. Milk jugs, juice containers and bulk snack food containers seem like they would be abundant in a preschool. That's basically what I am.... a preschool. LOL, and a kindergarten and a second grade all to myself.

Someone had asked about those pretzel containers that I had, I get those at Sam's club. I love them and the kids do to. They are a nice snack and the containers will be handy.

GB here in Belgium we have recycling parks where people bring their stuff. If so in the US, you could ask there for what you want. Here it's not always possible to get things, because officially it's forbidden to take anything out of the park, but a cold bottle of beer in summer or a hot soup in winter could having them look aside.

What a great thing to encourage people to recycle though! We have to pay our waste company to recycle, and then it's only limited things. They don't even recycle corrugated cardboard :-(

Maybe you could exchange some of your less useful recyclables for other's milk jugs?

GB,

i've been cleaning and cutting the containers i've been collecting this fall. many of mine are QT sized. I got thru a bit of H&H for my coffee .. yanno, Deans -- they are the opaque white, but work just fine. Also Kefir, which is a squarish QT opaque .... for both, just take off the labels.

Orange Juice half-gal ..i think i have 1 of those .

I also have a few of the larger [from Sams] sour cream and cottage cheese... they have lids and are maybe only 4-5" deep, so i'll have to make the soil about 3".... may cut a hole in the lid and use siran wrap for extra light.... or do the baggie thing... i haven't fully thought that out yet... But i'm also thinking - by the time the lil seedlings are that tall, the weather should be warmer that i may not need the lid, so the height may not be an issue.

BUT -- not that that is all said.... Gal sized really does work the best due to the size and height.
OH --- that reminds me, gal size vinegar containers.... i use a lot of vinegar for cleaning... so i've been saving those too.