First Time wintersowing?

Karen and CapCod, thank you for your advice on the tomatoes. I will wait untill late March/Early April.

Anita, thanks for your list, that will be very helpfull with all those dates. I see you even did vegetables. I will try that too.

Good Luck

Oh -- regarding Anita's site... I forgot about that until now, when i opened it.
At least for me... it does not view well in the FireFox browser. MUCH better in Internet Explorer

Anita, what a great WS site you have created. I remember when you were creating it a while ago, but it slipped my mind until you mentioned it again! So glad to have your lists of germination-successes.
First-time wintersowers, Anita's website is a great resource, as are the links she provides to other sites.

Thanks guys..I'm glad that it can be helpful. It definitely helps me every year.

Anita, while I was filling a lot of containers with earth this afternoon, I thought it was a very good idea of you to give every box a number. Well, my way is a bit different from yours, because we do not have those containers here. I sow in smaller containers. And I will place 3-6 containers in a case. I will label them, but I'm not sure I will able to read it after snow and rain. I will give each container a number, so if If labels are unreadable I only have to search for a few plants instead of 200!! I only must be aware that I do not put same kind of plants in a case.
I have a labelwriter and I made some labels, have put them 2 weeks in water and 1 week in light. I did the same with
a pencil (that is the one I use in summer, it never fades) and with a gel pen. I didn't try it with a permanent writer, because they always fade in the sun and most times the tip is too thick. Well there was no difference. I could read them all after this experimenting. I choosed for the labels from the labelwriter, because it is the quickiest way to make labels.

I've never had a paint pen fade. Consider using these if you can get them.
http://www.artsupply.com/sls/deco_color_paint_markers.htm

I always number my containers. I label with number and type of plant both.

Karen

That one is not available in Belgium. Maybe I must try to make a trade: 3 of these FINE paint pens for 15 packets of seed.
Anyone interested?
Or I can pay by Paypal.

Don't they sell any brand of paint pen there? It's just paint in what looks like a marker. Here, they're available in craft stores.

Karen

I use paint pens as well. The Nursery Marking Pen also works real well. http://www.dpind.com/GARDEN_MARKER_PEN_p/garden%20marker%20pen%203.htm

Hey, those look great!
I've never seen a paint pen in Europe, but then I never heard of them, so need to look specifically.
Unfortunately, we also do not have "craft stores"!!!
Just a different culture! No "Michael's"!
I bought a "Nursery Pen" from a garden supply company and withing 4 weeks could no longer read my tomato labels! Lots of people here do use pencils (I sometimes use an old-fashioned carpenter's pencil) and they seem to work fairly well.

Jim: People in Europe do paint. And sculpt. And knit and crochet. And sew. Wherever supplies for these things are bought, that's the place to start looking for paint pens. Where would the Monet of today buy his paint?

Karen

Jim, I think I've seen things of this sort in a ? papeterie. Selling cards and stationary, but some I've seen sell art supplies too. Good luck!

Jim: I've checked my seed supply and I don't have those larkspurs I promised, so I'll send a couple of paint pens instead. How's that?

Angie

Karen:
The Monet of auld made most of his own paints.
The Monet of today would buy his paints at a specialist shop that sells artist's paints.
The sculptor would buy her tools in another specialist shop.
Here in France, serious artists would probably have to go to Lyon or Paris to get what might be considered even a "normal range" of materials in Columbus or Charleston!
For knitting and crocheting, there also are specialist shops, and I know of a couple in Geneva.
We do have a 'Fabric Store' nearby.
You don't seem to believe me that Europeans don't do 'crafts', but it's true!
We now have "DIY" shops, but the number of times I have stood in line with other expat-Americans lamenting the fact that we can't find things that are basic to Lowe's or Home Depot (or even real wood to do basic cabinetry!!!) are uncountable!
It really IS a different culture!

It is true: papeteries do sell some "art supplies". I was in 2 of the largest local ones today, and, if I had a grade school art project involving marker pens, colored sparkle glue, or cheap watercolor or finger paints, I'd be in business!

Thank you, Angie!!! Great idea!

Oh, by the way!
I started WS. Anyone who is interested in my progress can click on my user name and then view my Journal to see what and how I am sowing.

OK Jim, since you are first, what are you temps there? Daytime and night time. Does the ground freeze where you are?

We are still getting 60s here in the daytime, although it is supposed to drop into the 40s the next few days. I am still not comfortable with putting them out there until Jan. It is crazy the warm weather we have had this year.

We went to a Christmas lights parade and normally we are bundled up in coats, hats, gloves and scarves. Not this year, I just threw on a jacket and the kids had their coats. They took off their hats to stash their candy in! LOL.

OK Lissa,

Temps have been running -2 lows to +7 highs now for about 1 month. That's about 28 low to 47 high Fahrenheit. I have a high-low thermometer in the (unheated) greenhouse that reads both Celsius and Fahrenheit. Lowest temp in there this past month was 23.2, highest 72.3.

I went by the "rule" I read somewhere in the sticky resources: when the last leaves have fallen from the trees. Most have been gone for almost a month; the last (except for Winter's eternal stragglers!) fell last week. I am also ONLY seeding hardy perennials so far (except the Sweetpeas, and those I planted because a gardener with far more experience and success with them than I said: "Sow them NOW!"). I am also keeping seed just in case. Even if we do get a warm spell, it's not going to last long enough to get these seeds going!

Frankly, I'd rather be in New Mexico right now! (Or even Old!)

Well, that is a good point about the length of time at the higher temps. It would at most be a few hours at those temps, and then only for a day or two.

Even in my house the temp stays below 70 degrees. I tried to check germination by putting some seeds in a baggie to get them to sprout. I think it was too cold even in the window for them to sprout. Sooooo...... I guess that helps to convince me.

I looked around for paint pens, but did not find anything like the US ones. The only 'paint pens' you can by in Europe are refills for textile.

Temperatures here are between -6°C and +4°C since a few weeks. Today I finished filling all my containers with earth. I hope I will have enough. I will try to winter sow 150 different plants. Next days I will be busy making labels.
Hope snow dissappears soon, so I can put my cases outside.

I put my baggies on top of the aquarium; have done so for years! The lights keep them at just the right temps. If it's really cold, I may then put the baggies on top of the steam radiators at night, because then they give out only a litlle heat. Top of the TV (unless you have a flatscreen) or top of your computer tower is also good!

Hey, Jonna, Do you think we could make money importing paint pens for gardeners into Europe? I found those same textile pens!

Well Jim, we might ':-) I really did not ever find anything but a pencil that stays readable.

Jonna: Love the snow scene! Hope we get some serious snow this winter. We haven't had any good snow in years :-(

Jonna - thanks for the snow picture! Beautiful!! We got a dusting of snow over the weekend. The girls were so excited to build a snowman - but alas, not enough snow. I'm preparing my WS, but won't start containers until after Christmas.

It is obvious we cannot buy paint pens in Europe. I now see my offer to send 15 packets of seeds for 3 pencils was too low. I did not know how expensive they are.
But I still want to have some (these companies do not deliver in Europe).
Please tell me what I can send you to have 3 of those pencils

I know i saw a site that had 3 pens for $10 ... then you'd have to add s/h
but the more you bought, the cheaper they became.

Jim: It sounds like if paint pens are available at all, they'd be in the store you went to today for the school project.

So, how did you end up in France?

Jonna: The paint pens are not expensive at all, around $3 each. The thing is, someone would have to make a trip to a craft store to buy it. I'm not "crafy" at all. The only time I've been in a craft store in years was to buy my paint pens. (One lasts for years since all I use it for is plant labels. I bought 2 at the same time, lost one somewhere in my yard or garage). The real expense would be in postage. That is charged by size of package (box or envelope) as well as thinkness of an envelope.

Here's a store that sells them online.
http://allenap.stores.yahoo.net/madepama.html
The cost is only $2.59 but postage to my home, a few hundred miles away, is over $7 . It would probably be less if someone just took it to a post office (companies always seem to charge extra), but it wouldn't be cheap. I have no doubt it would be way more than the cost of the pen.

Karen

i get them at WallyWorld for about 3.50 i think. i bought it for WS 2007, so i dont really recall the exact amount.

I've heard that Wally World has them, but never tried to get them there. That's another place I tried to avoid. I did go there last year for ziplock seed bags, they have them pretty cheap.

Karen

The problem is all these on line stores do not ship to Europe. So, if there is anyone who is going to buy these, please let me know. I will pay you in dollars (Paypal) or in seeds (there is no limit) , whatever you want.
Living in Europe in wonderfull, very few regulations, but there are some things we can't buy here.

Jonna.... i can not for the life of me, recall what thread i was in where we were talking paint pens... and not in the WS forum... so i Dmailed my pal who has these pens... when i find out, i'll let ya know.

>>That's another place I tried to avoid.

I understand that Karen, as many peeps feel that way. but when you're trying to pinch pennies... everything helps, even if it is from there.

http://www.dpind.com/Garden_Marking_Pens_s/6.htm

Terese: I agree, and I do go to Walmart, just not any more often than I have to. In summer I sometimes go their garden center, mostly for stupied stuff like cheap little flower pots. Not so bad, I don't have to go into the actual ginormous store or stand in those long check-out lines because I can pay at the garden center.

I just try not to go to the main part of the store very often, and try to wait and combine trips. I have to go soon for a couple of toys, wrapping paper, junk like that. I'm making a list and will get everything at once. It's just not a place where I enjoy going to browse...

Karen

My friends,

I wonder if we can all pause just a moment here and consider where we are.

I think the first place we all are on this thread is DG member, part of the DG community, which means that
we are all friends.

One of the nifty things about DG is that its members (although speaking English is almost required!!!) come from all over the world. We are a truly international community.

Some of us are blessed with natural access to supplies/plants/seeds/knowledge/other, and DG offers us a way to share these resources with our DG "neighbours" in trade for the resources they have.
Many of us are blessed with resources that other DG members cannot even imagine.
But even the least blessed DG member comes with a love of gardening, access to a computer, and a compelling desire to connect with other gardeners.

I have had the great good fortune to trade with the "rich" and the "poor" on DG and many in between. Not only have I never felt "cheated", I have most often questioned whether or not I had given good value.

Of course, it is always really hard to "value" trades or even basic communication across cultures.
A lot depends on trust and "perceived value"
E.G. Angie offers to send me 2 paint pens for the seeds I am sending her
That's a definite "best offer.

How did we end up here, Karen?
60s kids who hearkened to JFK's call
Almost 35 years chasing civil wars and genocides
picking up the human pieces of civil wars

Just lucky, I guess!

Hey, guys: I will pick up some extra paint pens when I get Jim's and depending on the cost, I will be happy to mail them in exchange for seeds. That's the least I can do for DG friends across the ocean or down under or wherever you happen to be! We're all gardeners and if you can't get it where you are, post a thread and I'm sure some DGer will be happy to work something out for you.

Let me know who wants them and I'll check out your trade list to see what I can use in return. How's that?

Jim, you're good to go already.

Angie

And I don't mean to insult anyone by the use of "guys." Just wanted to include everyone, so ladies and gents, please read above post.

Angie

Here's a source for paint pens at $2.20 each, fine point:

http://www.markingpendepot.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=12

And it appears that they ship internationally as well.

This message was edited Dec 8, 2008 8:21 PM

The Nursery pens I recommended above are good. I have been reusing my vegetable white row markers for 3 years and the writing has not faded yet.

I tried the links. But shipping and handlingcosts are enormous. I filled in the forms to get 12 pens for $ 26 through dpind.com, but costs are $ 79,85! So they will cost me $ 105,85. That's really too expensive for me.
The other ones I tried had also huge amounts for shipping and handling or they couldn't say how much it would be.

Angie, I hope you will take some extra pens for me. I had a look at the rates for postage to Europe, it is not so expensive as one should think:
Packages (Small Packets): Weight not over
1 oz $1.40
2 oz $2.20
3 oz $3.00
4 oz $3.80
5 oz $4.60
6 oz $5.40
7 oz $6.20
8 oz $7.00
12 oz $8.65
16 oz $10.60

I don't mind to pay the postage and you can have a look at my tradelist and choose anything you want.