First Time wintersowing?

I've WS'ed poppies too... and they've all done pretty well.

**checking my spreadsheet**
Sown on 3.7.08 germinated on 3.26.08
I probably planted out end of May, since i was gone most of the month... but was home the last week.
I had other ones that were planted out the 28th of May.

they sure are a gorgeous delicate looking flower.

I have a container question (another first-timer here):

I have 7 or 8 of those milk jugs but I also have some quart size opaque yogurt containers I have decided to invite to the party. ;-)
I read somewhere in one of these threads that opaque containers are fine if you cut sections of the sides out and line with clear plastic bag material, and also the same for the lid.

********~~~~~~~~********~~~~~~~~~~~~~*********************~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~????????????*******~~
My question is, can someone give me any tips, or better, a photo, of containers prepped this way? How much do you need to cut out? I am thinking maybe three 2 inch wide slices spaced around the container ought to do it but that is a guess only.
******************************~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*****************???????????????**************~~~~~~

As for the "when to sow" question, I read somewhere that if one is not sure, sowing on the Winter Solstice is a good solution. Made sense to me and that is when I intend to start.

Regarding vegetables, I did send to the WinterSown people for their free seeds! Among the seeds I received are a variety of butterhead lettuce ("May Queen"), and an heirloom tomato ("Cherokee Green"). I believe they only send around seeds of plants which have been successfully germinated and grown from winter sowing. (http://wintersown.org for info....... and there is an address, you can send off a SASE with two first class stamps and they send you a lovely seed selection.)

Kyla -- I use those yogurt, sour cream, etc containers and do not cut holes in the containers or the lids.

I do believe enough sun light gets in for them to germinate.
once it gets warm enough... you take the lids off anyways.

as for when to so ... you are in a warmer climate... so starting late, like some of us in colder zones, may not work for you.

If you had time in Dec, why not go for it.
I am planning on doing a few tomorrow .. which is very early... but its COLD here, we have snow ... and i'm sorta doing an experiment with some seeds i've had troubles with in the past.

hopefully someone in a warmer zone will pop in on the timing question.

Kyla: If you haven't read the sticky at the top of this thread, please do so. Somewhere on that thread there are photos of other containers, including the yogurt/ice cream cartons and even some clear plastic bags. I spent the entire afternoon yesterday reading through the sticky and it answered most of the questions you raise, which were some of my own questions, too.

Hope this helps.

OK, thanks. Hemophobic, I actually did read that but perhaps not closely enough. I do recall someone saying to cut parts away (when using fully opaque containers) and did not think there had been info about how much..... oh well, maybe I will just trust my instincts on that one. ;-)

tcs, I don't think it is all that warm here...... it is sure a heck of a lot colder than NC where I was before. But the maps say zone 7 so that is what I put in my profile , LOL! This is the mountains and spring is later than it otherwise might be, I understand, so I think late Dec will be okay. We keep having days of sun up in the mid fifties and I would not want stuff to germinate too soon.......

I will probably keep enough seeds back for spring sowing in the usual manner as a back up but I have confidence, from all I've read, that this is gonna work!

>>We keep having days of sun up in the mid fifties and I would not want stuff to germinate too soon...

if sun is an issue, where they may germinate too early, don't put them in a southern exposure area.
the first year... i was constantly moving my containers around ... last year, they stayed on my back patio -- western exp. but as it was warming up... getting too much sun, i could move them more into the shade, so the lil babies didnt roast.

Thanks, Kyla - I completed WinterSown's hilarious quiz and now have my SASE ready to go in the post tomorrow.

-GB

Kylaluaz - as my first year to WS, I just keep thinking that winter stolstice doesn't start until Dec 21st....however, it is my first year to WS as well. Obviously, those of us in colder climates have a longer WS season. :-) Did I mention that it's my first year to WS? LOL....at myself!

I don't thin seedlings, just plant out hunks.

I have used the large cottage cheese containers. I just cut a hole out of the center of the lid. Cover the container with Saran Wrap, poke holes, replaced the lid.

Karen

Karen, the question still remains.....do you replant the poppies out in March when it's snowing? :-)

Well, -- obviously I'm not Karen... but i'd say no to that... for one, the ground is probably still frozen.

You'd plant out normally once your 'last frost' date has passed... though i got lucky one year and planted out weeks early, and just got lucky we didnt get a cold snap.

MY stuff starts going out early May at the earliest... Karen is a zone warmer than me though.

I jsut re-read that her's germinated March 3rd .... they need time to grow a bit before planting out. I think it's said 'second set of true leaves'.

I planted them out early- like mid to late April- even though last frost here is mid May. Poppies like the cold! They'll laugh it off, just like larkspur. Even if you direct seed them in winter, they can sprout, be buried in snow in ice, and keep growing when it melts. Frost won't touch them. I have larkspur volunteers out there now. I know they'll stay green all winter and be fine in spring, ready to take off.

As soon as they ready to plant, and the ground is thawed, they can go in the ground. Trust me, been there, done that. Works great!

Karen

Hey, Karen, thanks for the clear instrux! sounds easier than I was about to make it.

Chele, you are a hoot! My first time too, oh boy oh boy, lol tee hee and tra la! *grin*

about planting out in chunks or separating, I keep thinking of a demo I watched in a Master Composting class, this young guy telling about how to transplant seedlings. He showed how to bump them out and sort of shake them apart in his hands...... pretty hard to describe in text, but the idea is not to touch the actual roots too much but to sort of bump the soil clumps until the individual seedlings separate. It works pretty well. Touching or handling the tender young roots can strip them of the smaller root hairs that are the parts that actually take in moisture and nutrients to the plant via the capillary action in the soil, bla bla bla-- he kept saying "You want to FLOCULATE, not DERACINATE!!!" ....... and also not to hold them by the stem (he was so cute, he kept saying, "don't take it by the NECK!") but either loosely by the leaves or else, this again hard to describe, holding the entire little thing sort of cupped in the hand and tipping it into the hole or depression prepared for it, sliding it down the palm, like.

it's hard to describe, like I said.

I'll stick to hunks!

http://wintersown.org/wseo1/Hunk-o-Seedlings.html

Karen

LOL Karen! It's too early for "hunk" comments but LOL! Bonus gals, we get to work with hunks! Rather dirty, but still hunks. :-)

Back to poppies - thanks Terese and Karen. I was trying to understand the timeline with Karen's sprouts in March over/up here in OH. Like I said, it's still snowing so how'd she get those little "hunks" in the ground? I can just see me out there in my snowsuit with a pick ax trying to plant poppies. The neighbors will get a good laugh. I think I'll do a little experiment: direct sow some in winter and then ws some in containers - I'm bound to have some survive.

Kylaluaz - I love big words, but big and BOLD really stuck out.......made me wonder "what type of class was she taking with that hunk"? What in the world is she talking about? LOL! Oh, and that's just assuming you're a girl. Ha - since I don't know your name yet. :-) Hi, I'm Michele or ~chele. My new job is learning how to work with hunks in the snow. My DH is just going to love this.

Planting out will depend on your weather. If you get an early thaw, even a few days, you can take advantage of it. Here we had a warm week last year, early Feb I think. I went out in my yard and transplanted and separated larkspur and bachelor button volunteers. My larkspur volunteers are 1 to 2 inches tall now, and will stay green all winter, even in snow. If you want larkspur, now is a good time to direct sow. It's one I've done better with sowing directly than WSing in a jug. (was a tip from a garden friend on another forum) . This pic shows a few of my larkspur last May.

Karen

Karen - anything green in winter is good for me. :-) What variety is your larkspur?

Karen ... so Bachelor Buttons are also pretty hardy?

I did not realize they can go out so early.

Not sure if i have any larkspur... i'll have to look .

thanks.

I love larkspur! I didn't know they were so hardy either. I don't see many larkspur here... I wonder if it is too hot in the summers for them.

Hi Michele, my name is Kyla, I am female, and the reason I capitalized those letters was to indicate the way that fellow said them, with great emphasis. It was a good class. ;-)

LOL... i guess any class taught by a "hunk' would be a great class.

but true -- as Karen stated... the HOS [hunk of seed] method is an easy way to plant out... especially when your container looks like a Chia-Pet.

I've taken some Gal jugs and just 'quartered' whats inside and plunked it in the ground.

Kyla -- welcome to the WS thread.

Terese

Thanks for the welcome, Terese....... And, from Karen's link:

"To separate any close seedlings just simply take out a cluster of them from the flat, not a big hunk, maybe a piece of soil an inch or two across, and then carefully work the soil loose from the roots to separate them. To me the action is very similar to butterflying a piece of meat....I just carefully work the roots apart repeatedly opening and halving the soil hunk (this is not something I do when I am hurried or have "anxious" mangling fingers) and I do very little, if any, damage to the roots."

I think that's what the hunk (lol) in that class meant by "floculate" actually...... But I agree, sometimes just leaving the hunks alone is the best course of action.

I have sprouts (volunteers) of of bachelor buttons, larkspur, stay green all winter. That way, they bloom sooner. And the poppies I transplanted so early in spring, they did well, too. Most perennials will too. They might go dormant and seem to disappear, but then come back and bloom in summer.

My favorite larkspur are larkspur gentian blue from T&M. They're such a pretty clear blue.
http://www.tmseeds.com/product/7239.html

Here's a clump in my yard last summer

Most of my taller larkspur are offspring (volunteers) from Larkspur Earl Gray from 2006. They've just reseeded for the past 2 years.
http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&mainPage=prod2working&ItemId=3125&PrevMainPage=gatepage&scChannel=Gate%201DollarSeed&OfferCode=VH1

The colors have changed quite a bit over the years! Also, last year I threw some pink into the mix.

Karen

My larkspur, much to my disappointment, gave up early and went black with the frosts, while delphiniums and Russell Lupines were still blooming. All those are gone now, but I have bachelor buttons still blooming down in the wild part of the garden, although it has been below freezing for 2 weeks and we had some snow for 1 of those!

I started some Penstemons last week and Sweet Peas just yesterday!

What are those gorgeous blue flowers in the front. Karen?

Jim: Were those larkspur that croaked new little seedlings in the ground, in a pot, or plants that had already bloomed?

Karen

The larkspur gentian blue, which I was talking about. You're not paying attention here, Jim!

Karen

Plants that had already bloomed.
The lupines were this year's seedlings from Spring sowing under lights with my veggies; but the bachelor buttons are ALL volunteers. Some years ago I broadcast a wildflower mixture and I and my neighbours have 3 colours of bachelor buttons and 4 varieties of Rudbeckia whether we like them or not. Happily, I don't mind either one in my raspberries or veggies!

Well, I am, but I always failed those parts of the NMS tests where they show you a solid and 4 flat pieces and ask you which one of the latter can be folded up to make the solid. When you shifted angles of perception from 1 photo to the next, my mind just didn't follow!

I want those! Lovely flowers!

Lissa: Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your comments. My larkspur usually bloom in spring/ early summer for the most part. By the time the real heat comes they don't do much here either. I leave them long enough to drop a few seeds, then start chopping off stems. I'll still get occasional shorter stems put out blossoms in late summer, but not much. But by then other later bloomers like coneflowers, rudbeckia, and zinnias take over.

Karen

Just to add to what Karen just said, Lissa, my larkspur also quit in the real heat (although they usually come back in the Fall, but the delphiniums (which I find so similar as to often be indistinguishable) may bloom all through the heat with a really strong new burst in the Fall. You might want to try some of them. I also love lupines, and there seem to be some blooming in te garden at almost any time from May/June onwards.

Jim: You can buy larkspur seeds most anywhere, in many beautiful colors. Honestly, I recommend sowing them directly into beds now. They might sprout in a warm spell in winter, but should be fine through the rest of winter. I usually recommend sowing things in jugs, but larkspur is one that really does best for me directly sown in fall/ winter. They get much taller and majestic looking that way.

I worked today. Now I have to wash the coffee pot (still from breakfast), shower, and be at a Christmas party by 6. See you later-

Karen

I never see larkspur seed over here, except in limited selections from specialist seed catalogs. The ones I have came from seed from my SIL's garden in Washington State.

(Aren't we a bit early for Christmas parties? WOW! I need to get into the Cincinnati social whirl!)

LOL, so that was just the other angle, and two different ones are the Earl Grey ones and then the Gentian Blue. How pretty they are! I have got to have some of those. Do you happen to save seeds Karen? Thank you for all the wonderful information. This is great!

Jim I still have marigolds blooming! After quite a bit of frosty mornings. I love seeing a little color out there when everything else is brown. Wonder how long they will keep going?

Now you guys typed like 10 things while I typed that one message. That's what I get for being on the computer in the middle of the day!

Lissa: I think I have seeds from the gentian blue. I have to say, though, that they have changed colors. While they are still pretty, they used to be a lighter, sky blue. I was thinking of getting some new ones and never did. Valueseeds has them for 99 cents.
http://www.valueseeds.com/item-7239.html

Here's mine in 2007.

I don't have time to dig for seeds now, but I'll try to remember tomorrow.

Karen

Jim: Doesn't T&M have a French site? Don't they sell larkspur there? I buy most of my seeds from online sites, not local stores. They only carry very common seeds locally.

Too early for a Christmas party? No, any excuse for a party I guess.

Gotta go.

Karen

Karen, the gentian blue is one of the loveliest blues I've ever seen, so clear. Must have some of that on my list.

Lissa, that pretzel bottle is one great looking bottle. I'm seeing it also used as a cloche for late frosts. Where did you ever get such bottles? I don't eat pretzels, but maybe I can find someone who does!

Potagere: your views are so old-worldy and charming. Wish I could visit Europe someday.

Thanks, everyone, for all the info. I've added several web sites to my favs ^_^