How do you root a rose cutting??

Stake
I actually have some liquid fungicide I could dip the cuttings in, but I have no idea if it is a fungus or bacteria. Perhaps it doesn't matter. Will the fungucide take care of both?

I came home last night and was in a panic because the water had gone completely cloudy so I blasted off the jelly like substance from the cuttings and changed the water. I decided to go ahead and pot some of the cuttings that had the most nubs even though they had not started real roots yet. I scrubed the container good with soap and water and added H202 in the clean water. I had been told that willow limbs help promote root gowth and perhaps I used too much.

Will H202 do as good as a fungicide or would you use it in addition to H202?

I have most of the parts and plan to build an aeroponics unit made of dark plastic which will keep down the algae. The cuttings will not be sitting in water in that system and it may be a little easier to keep the algae off of them.

As far as grafting, I am excited to try your suggestion of starting with grafting a stem back on to itself. I had never thought of that. I looked for a budding knife this week, but can't find one in Salt Lake City. I guess I will have to order one online. Thanks for all your suggestions and pictures. I don't know that I will be grafting grapes. I have access to a very hardy concord vine and another white variety that I am taking cuttings from this winter. I took some last winter, but they got too dry this summer when we went on vacation and I lost all but four of them. I nursed the four for the rest of the summer. This fall I planted them for my new arbor. The same night, deer ate all four of them. Ruined my whole day! I am going to have to fence the area with an 8 foot fence to keep them away. Another expense I had not planned on.

I do want to eventually graft some Japanese Maple and want to practice on something else to make sure I can do it. We collected hundreds of seed this fall and am trying several approaches to get them to sprout. They would not be ready to graft until next year. You do have a very easy-to-understand explanation of the process and I am going to see if I can find a class around here or go watch someone who does it.

Thanks!

G'Day
I would have thought that the H2O2 would have got rid of the jelly goo, the suggested Permanganate of Potash is worth a try as would a rinse with Sodium Hypochlorate. The trouble with both these treatments they might "burn" the callus on the bottoms of the cuttings. You might like to clean off all your cuttings and treat a couple with the different methods to see if the callus does "burn" and while that is happening wrap the other cuttings in barely damp paper place in a plastic bag, seal and store in the vege crisper in the fridge NOT THE FREEZER. Another thing worth trying is if you have some left over Antibiotic drugs around crush a couple of tablets and mix this in you water. My earlier suggestion of Bendadine is worth trying because that won't hurt your cuttings and the treatment of water with Iodine is recognised as safe in fact dispenser units are sold to commercial propagators to do just that so put a bit of Bentadine in your propagating tank at the rate of 2ml per ltr, you don't have to be dead accurate four and a half litres equal on imperial gallon so about 4 would be close to the US gallon.
One thing that I don't understand is why you are rooting cuttings in water because it is an ideal way of promoting disease, I just assume there is a good reason.
When I was working we used to grow a small number of roses about 10 or 15 thousand per year (big rose nurseries grow 100s of thousands) the rootstock for these were collected late Autumn early Winter and buried in sharp sand (builders sand) with just the top inch or two showing, when they started to root, about 6 to 8 weeks, they would then be planted out into nursery rows for budding when they had grown enough in late Spring, and budding could continue into Summer. Nowadays the sharp sand has disappeared and Vermiculite or Perlite is used instead because it is sterile and the only diseases that will attack your cuttings are the ones that you might introduce. If your climate is very cold the processes will take longer but if you want to hurry it up a bit then some bottom heat could be applied as I mentioned elsewhere for the home gardener a low cost heating unit can be made using a low wattage light globe about 40 watt under the rooting bed. I will continue the grafting things on your thread over with the rest of the grafting stuff.
Hope I am of some help and not just making it sound more difficult.
Regards Stake

This message was edited Dec 7, 2008 3:15 AM

This message was edited Dec 7, 2008 3:17 AM

This message was edited Dec 8, 2008 6:51 AM

Thanks Stake. This helpful. Why am I trying to root in water? Because I don't know any better and there are people on this site that swear by it. Your approach certainly sounds easier, especially if you are doing them by the thousands. After all of the trouble I have been having, I am certainly interested in an easier approach. I am certainly interested in the easiest way to do this. I read the posts and some say hydroponics, some say aeroponics and some say ziplock bags. I know someone doing thousands of them will be using the quickest and most productive way. How long were the rose cuttings?
I live in zone 6 which gets rather cold in the winter. You wouldn't be able to stick the cuttings in the winter because the ground is frozen. Have you detailed this approach anywhere I could read more. We just bought an acre of land and I plan to start growing and selling on a small scale. I plan to do roses and other landscape shrubs and Japanese Maples. Maybe your technique is in a book somewhere. If so can you point me to it?

G'Day
Just been and fed myself and did my dishes.
There might be a very good reason for your method of propagation perhaps because of the frozen ground. See if you can find a nearby rose nursery (Not a garden centre) most nurserymen will pass on the basics. Some might not but they are the ones that are there for the money not because they grow plants and incidently also make a living. Tell them that a bloke from Australia told you this and if not correct they will quick smart tell you that he wouldn't know what he's talking about because this is the way you do it.
You might find in your area that you might have to collect your stock & scion material just after the first frosts that start the dormancy then store it where it will remain cool but will not freeze. I don't know but possibly seal in a plastic bag with some damp newspaper or wrap it in small parcels using the paper then put some parcels in a plastic bag and bury it at a depth that it won't freeze or if you are below 4 degrees celsius continuously just put the bags of material in the tool shed under a few layers of straw. You will have to sort this out because I know little about your climate but the burying underground is a good idea until you are sure it won't freeze in the shed if covered. When the weather starts to warm up a bit i.e no more snow or frost, earlier if using bottom heat, Unwrap your rootstock material dip in a good all purpose fungicide in case there are fungi lurking around and then place in the striking medium with the bottom heat if you need it. I always found Captan to be a good alround fungicide, it was banned here for many years and I used Benlate now Benlate is banned and Captan is back.or you can use the Bentadine, I found that good when the plants being propagated were very prone to rot and the number was only 100s not 1000s. Check your cuttings after about 3 weeks or sooner with bottom heat, keep checking until they are nicely callused, with a little bit of rooting on some it doesn't have to be inches long just showing is best. Then plant them either in pots or your nursery plot and wait for budding time if they are rose bushes that won't need budding then you just sit back and watch them grow. Although this info might be of help to you, local knowledge can't be beaten but as I always say listen to everybody then weigh up the info and adapt it to your requirements.
Rose stock cuttings were about 10 or 12 inches but if they dont have to be budded then 6 inches is plenty long enough.
Regards

This message was edited Dec 7, 2008 5:20 AM

Billg, I think I was reading a thread where you actually take the willow and put it in water and let it set overnight and then take the water and use it not the whole thing. Like making a tea from it and then using the tea.

G'Day
At the risk of getting my head blown off ! In disease prone situations or difficult to propagate species I'd give the Willow a miss while there may be some benefits from its use those benefits are more accurately obtainable from commercial products such as the rooting hormone IBA or other preparations for disease control such as Fungicides, Bacteriacides etc.
One of the problems with Willow, is WHICH Willow there are numerous species and hybrids and apart from that there are heaps more that are "Willows" because of pendulous foliage and are not in the genus Salix. Billgrubs's jelly goo problem is quite a common problem in flower vases of water when the flower stems are getting a bit old so it is not surprising to find the same problem when willow sticks are put into propagation water. The above suggestion of an infusion makes a lot more sense but does not overcome my previous objections.
I would like for people who know why they use Willow to respond to my comments and list the supposed benefits. I do not condemn all folklore benefits some of them have been found to have genuine basis for their use and a long time ago when I first started propagating grapevines I asked an Oldtimer for advice and he had lots to give but one suggestion didn't make sense to me and I queried why do that and his answer was quite emphatic "Because the bloody things will die if you don't". I followed his advice but with a small number I did what I thought made more sense and sure enough they didn't grow. There are other ways of doing what he suggested but they all achieve the same thing.
Regards

LOL I am not going to blow your head off!!! It was just after thinking about it and I realized he had used the whole stem in his water and just telling him what I had read IF he wanted to try it. It's like anything else , what works for one doesn't mean it will work for another.Thats like me I was asking about black spot and what could be done about it and someone told me to use a diluted spray of bleach water, and I said something about and got lamblasted for it. But hey if it works I am always willing to give it a try. The funny thing about the bleach though was a professional gardener was the one that told me to use it, said it worked and was a whole lot cheaper to use.Yeah I can understand where your coming from. But as I said what works for one may not for another.

Hi, All! Been lurking, and am now sticking my 2 cents worth in here....

Stake, first of all, Welcome to Dave's Garden! Thanks for all the information you shared! One of these days I hope to be set up to do as large a scale of rooting cuttings as you have done.

I also heard/read that soaking willow branches in water, then removing the branches and using the water to root cuttings is suppose to increase the successful rooting percentage. Also heard that the rooting hormone powder or liquid is willow-based. Why do we use willow water? Because we were told it works. LOL!

I have pretty good success just taking cuttings in early summer, dipping in rooting hormone powder and sticking in potting soil. I keep them moist and keep a plastic bag over the top loosely to allow some air to get in. I've heard builders sand is better to use, but can't find it anywhere around here, so I just use potting soil.

I've used a few drops of perioxide in jars of water with cuttings with a fungus or bacteria and it seems to help.

G'Day
Flowerfantasy it wasn't you I was expecting the blast from more likely someone who was a devout believer in "Natural" things.
Willows do contain useful substances it's just that it easier and more accurate to buy the ready made up material and you don't run the risk of adding undesirables.
You probably already know that a Willow infusion was used in the past to relieve headaches and that is how Acetylsallcylic acid was discovered for the making of headache tablets "Aspirin". You probably also know that very effective bottom heat beds used to be made by putting down a layer of straw or straw/horse manure mix and the putting the striking mix on top of that, as the straw decomposed it generated heat which kept the cuttings warm same as todays heat beds using hot water or electricity, lot easier and more accurate to set a thermostat than to remove or add straw to your composting bed.
MSRobin depending on what is the easiest for you try using perlite or vermiculite for striking but I would have thought that builders sand would have been available at a Landscape Gardener or DOY store.
Regards

Stake
Perhaps the willow would have worked if I had boiled it in water, but for all I know, boiling it will kill all the beneficial properties of the solution. Putting it straight into my bubbler just added many unknown problems. I would rather work with chemicals that do not add so much foreign matter into my solution. I assure you, I will not repeat that mistake. Hopefully, I have stabalized the bubbler issue. I have also gone head and potted the cuttings that had good callused ends and were close to sending out roots.

One thing I like about the bubbler is you can see what is going on. When you put a cutting in the dirt, you don't know if it is rooting or not. You are always wanting to pull it up and see if there are roots or not. An experienced propagator like you, doing thousands of them could not afford the time it takes to root indoors with a bubbler. Eventhough we are in winter here, I am going to follow your suggestions for some plants like grapes, red twig dogwood, and a few other shrubs. I am not sure where I will find professionsl help around here, but will start looking.

Once again, I appreciate your help. I believe your experience in grafting should be put under a new forum where others interested in the subject could benefit.

G'Day
I'm glad I was of some use Billgrubs and hope that others got a bit of help as well.
If Admin feels that the info I have provided would be more useful in its own Forum then by all means do it. I know how to start a new one but not how to shift the input from one to another.
Regards

Stake
Your posts are great. Keep up the good work.

Garyt

G'Day
Flowerfantasy in one of my previous posts I said that there is a Dahlia breeder near by and since I know him reasonably well I would see if he would pass on some hints. He is very happy to talk to anyone about his passion and if his presentation comes through OK you will see some of his successes. There are four pages altogether so there will be 4 postings including this.
You might have to enlarge this to read the text.
Regards

That looks pretty good at last I have found a way of getting these photos and text to you. I forgot to tell you. On the first page there is a photo of John (not Santa) with one of his successes.

What John says makes sense, especially if you are in a situation where you can take the flower from the male parent and place it close to or on the seed bearing one. In cases like that your male parent plant can be over at the neigbours or over at Mum's on the other side of town or by plane half way across the country.

I don't think you will have any trouble with roses and compatibility, certainly not if you stick with the usuals from most gardens and while John is right about the bees knowing best, but if you are in a situation of no bees then you will have to use a brush.
Regards Stake

Stake,
Thank You so much. All of it came thru just fine. There was a wealth of info there.He was talking about the bees doing the most of it for you if possible , well one thing for sure I have plenty of bees here LOL, and will probably attract more this summer as a lot of the plants I already have out will draw them too.

Did you ever notice, Strake, how with all our collective human knowledge, Mother Nature's Wisdom still knows best?

G'Day
Of course she does, she's a MOTHER. Also had a lot more experience than we have. But for some strange reason we still try to do it better.
Regards