My Baby Magic Had a Seizure Tonight

My dog appears interested mainly in the compost, so I have ordered another circular bin to keep him out of it. A few years ago he ate some moldering item and had to be de-toxed with a charcoal drink. This ended up in the back of my car on the ride back home. I had previously made bins out of old pallets (which were free), but nettles tended to grow up between the boards which made them hard to pull out.
I wonder if the daffodil leaves are poisonous or if it is only the bulb?

katie....so sorry to hear about Magic, give him a few pets for me. Poor baby.

When you consider that many, many ornamental plants are actually medicinal plants, it's not surprising that many would be toxic if eaten. Poor Magic. He would not want to visit my yard. I have several kinds of monkshood alone! You'd think that the fuzzy leaves on that Hydrangea aspera would be a deterrent!

Katie, Sorry to hear about Magic again. I am fortunate that my dogs have never been ones to pick up & eat anything in the yard. I have noticed tons of mushrooms this season.I remove them once I spot them. You may wish to take a look around your yard for these too. They are sometimes hard to spot but can be deadly for all.

Kathy, darn!!! I'm so sorry that Magic had problems again . . . glad you are so good at investigating possible causes and then jumping right in to fix whatever is causing it. Hugs to Magic and also to you!

Good point about the mushrooms. I, too, have a bumper crop of many different kinds this year. Wierd.

Ditto on the hugs to you and Magic.

This has all been very interesting. I have no idea about any of this. Very eye-opening.

We also have lots of mushrooms this year, some I don't recall seeing before.
I'm so sorry Kathy that your Magic is finding something to make him sick. None of my dogs have ever been plant eaters other than grass. Knock on wood!
I did have to cut the back fence today as a rabbit had somehow gotten stuck in it. Poor think had struggled so long his back legs were to the bone. He did somewhat hop away into the underbrush, unfortunately I don't think he'll make it. Not sure how he got caught up like that, it's horse fencing with little squares in the wire. His front part made it through but not his back end.
Check out these mushrooms. My daughter took this somewhere in the woods around here.
I think it's really neat looking.

Thanks, all. Magic is doing wonderfully well in between these episodes, so he isn't complaining!! And I'm not sure, of course, that it's toxic plants rather than epilepsy or just the odd seizure, which I understand can happen to dogs.

My dogs clearly are big grazers - I think that may be a sighthound thing. And, for some reason, all my dogs don't stick to just grass. Argh!!!

I have a bumper crop of mushrooms every year (think wet shade) and am pretty good about picking/pulling them as soon as I see them, which is too bad because some of them are particularly beautiful.

I just wanted you all to have this on your radar so you didn't assume (like I initially did) that it wasn't the dogs eating stuff. Magic and Sahara particularly like Rudbeckia s it's emerging from the ground and Comfrey at any time. Silly dogs. I think we've moved on to using deer repellent.

Of course, the thing I need to keep in mind is that Sahara (my other vacuum cleaner) hasn't had any problems. So even if it is something they're eating, it's something she's not sensitive to.

Holly, I'm glad your pup is okay. Who would have thought nettles were toxic?

Linda, sad news about the bunny. I saw a buck on the side of the road that had probably been hit by a car - it's always tough to think that they suffer.

Kathy ~ Thanks for the link. I planted the Grandpa Ott on the dog yard fence, but it's still small and neither Chile nor Crikey seem to have any particular interest in it. The only plant that is suffering (besides the grass, of course), is my largest Passiflora. Seems Chile fancies himself a connoisseur of sorts and has taken to eating the flower buds. Fortunately, I haven't seen them on any lists anywhere. It's still blooming, but only on the outside of the fence and above Chile's head level!

Sorry to hear Magic had more seizures, but glad to hear he's doing better.

Sheri -

Maybe we need to plant dog patches with squash blossoms and lettuce. Then, of course, they'd decide to eat elsewhere. LOL

Hi Katie, Why don't you think it is epilepsy? Boo had his first seizure when he was about 3. Had 1 while my dh was driving down the road,. Dave panicked drove into the vets. The lady behind the counter was cool and calm and Dave was besides him self pull a turrets on her they ran out and got boo and he was over the seizure by then,. They said watch him and probably 3 months later he had the monster one with me it was awful. He has had many since and is on meds and they can range from short ones to 15 minutes. We talk to him and tell he hes a good boy and he finally comes out of it and back to himself. The vet said being on the pills is better than off. We watch him closely since we don't want him to have one somewhere and get hurt. Plus butter is the tattle tale and has told me about many of his seizures. Its hard but he is so lucky to have you take care of him. Heidi

And where is our resident veterinarian? He is always so good at times like these.

Thanks, Heidi -

I don't necessarily think it's not epilepsy. He's at the right age.

But, there seems to be a pattern to the seizures (2 about 6 hours apart) and then nothing for several weeks, which makes me wonder. Also, I do know that my dogs tend to eat stuff. He starts to seize when he's sleeping - not during stimulating activity or right after a heavy meal or when his stomach is very empty. And then there's just the fact that epilepsy is not in our breed as it is in some other breeds.

True epilepsy is generally considered to be genetic and there is no history of it in the last several generations. I'm talking about it regularly with his breeder (who is a vet) and we're watching it carefully and I'm keeping a log of the seizures - when they happen, the length and severity of them, any other symptoms, etc.

It sounds like Boo's seizures are just awful. Are they completely gone with the meds? Good for Butter girl - she's keeping track. I feel better that Sahara is with Magic all the time and she will tell me if anything happens, too. When he's having his seizures, she keeps sniffing at him and then looking at me as if to say, "What is it, Mom? Can we fix it? Is there anything you want me to do?"

sorry guys I am on call in Juneau and had many lives to save today and am still at it. I am watching a cat that is having a severe asthma attack right now and waiting for the meds to kick in. 2 hit by cars, 1 thrombo-embolic posterior paralysis, fractured tibia, spinal surgery recovery, and an amputation to keep out of pain. It is hard to manage pain when they can't tell you when they are beginning to hurt. Long days and longer nights.
I think idiopathic epilepsy is more with the picture you present Kathy. They follow no schedule of events and can vary with severity. Hopefully Magic does not get into severe clusters down the road they can be very difficult to control. Mostly Idiopathic epilepsy is easy to control and does not shorten his life.
I am off to Sitka tomorrow to have it a little slower. I hope. Steve

Thanks, Steve. That's not the diagnosis I want, but time will tell, I think. At any rate, because they are nibblers, I think it's still a good idea for me to make myself aware of the dangers in the yard. And, depending on the frequency of the seizures, I really would like to avoid medicating. He slept with me last night. I woke up in the middle of the night sandwiched between two cuddling 40+ lb dogs. It would have been nice if it hadn't been so hot!!

Good luck with your cases - poor guys. I'm glad they have you there for them, but it sounds like it's been an exhausting round of life-saving efforts.

I think if ingested toxins caused the seizures you would have long repetitive (cluster) type seizures. The poison does not go readily away and it worsens as it is absorbed. Toxic plant ingestions are quite severe and prolonged. Though it is dose dependent. You will know if it is idiopathic if Magic has seizures often about 5 days before full or new moon. (I know that this sounds like voodoo but ask police and ER rooms for increased brain activity during those times) Most common time for people and pets IMHO.

That's good to know. My vet thought that what I was seeing was cluster-like occurrences (even if there were only two to a cluster and they were 6 hours apart), but it sounds like there would be more of them and they would be closer together to qualify as the kind of clusters you're talking about. That makes sense.

I will include cycles of the moon in my journal of his seizures and see if there's a pattern. Good idea.

I'd heard of the moon affecting people, but had never linked it to animals. Thanks sofer another new thing learned at DG! Bless you for what you do......gentle (((hugs))) to those in your care.

The best way to track seizure patterns is to have a tide book. When the tides swing widely that is when the brain (Water also) is being stimulated by celestial pulls. It isn't always lunar. If that occurs and it ties into celestial events I have people only treat 2 days before and through the week with anti seizure drugs. Most Veterinarians laugh at me when I first state these facts but when I predict that we will have seizureing cases coming in they listen.

Sally - there are some really great studies out there that illustrate this. One I've heard of goes like this: a team of scientists removed mussels from the Atlantic coast and relocated them with similar conditions (including simulated tidal action) in the Midwest. The mussels didn't open and close with the tides, they opened and closed as though they were still on the Atlantic coast - they were using the moon, which is what drives the ocean.

There is a noted geologist who predicts earthquakes from the cycles of the moon and advertisements regarding animals gone missing quite successfully.

And then there's the whole navigation thing . . .

Anyway, I'm totally on board with that, Steve. I have a journal of Magic's seizures (4 to date) and will check out the tidal record to see how it corresponds.

Hi Katie, Boo still has seizures and they are much better than the ones he had on no meds. We did up his dose because I give him a pill in the morning and he was having some seizures at bedtime so we are now giving him one at dinner. He has gotten better. He will have 2 or 3 attacks then nothing for months then a few more then none. He eats crap all the time and can get himself so worked up I thing=k he has given himself some seizures. The pills are 12 dollars for a month and we check boos blood every year or so. Our vet said to also watch for changes in his mood for signs of other things gong on. He has had seizures for 5 years now and is goofy as always. Try sleeping with 4 on the bed and a husband. Turtle is the only one that isn't up there he gets to sleep in his kennel. Heidi

Steve, I really appreciate your brand of medicine. I had a client (human) that if the barometric pressure dropped suddenly, you could be sure she would have a seizure. So why wouldn't it be similar for animals. I don't know if this young woman (she passed away recently from a bad fall) was affected by the tides, but wouldn't be surprised.

Kathy, hope Magic (and you) are doing well again.

Police, ER rooms, OB doctors, Bar tenders, College Campus', and many other public interactive services are overwhelmed with Manic activities during such times. The brain is accelerated during such times. I did surgery on an OBGYN doctor's dog last night (he assisted) and asked him if he saw relationship with lunar (celestial) cycles. He said absolutly many labors are initiated by such natural phenomena.

Only makes sense. There's so much going on that we don't pay attention to because our chatty brains are engaged all the time.

Magic is doing great. No seizures for the last week.

Steve, thanks again for the info.

Heidi, thanks for sharing your experiences with Boo. I will definitely medicate if the seizures become more frequent. I've had three dogs on the bed for the last couple of nights now (with the miscellaneous cat). I'm thinking that tonight everybody will go to his or her own bed.

As a former teacher I always knew when a full moon was imminent from the students' behavior. People thought I was goofy, but I really thought it affected them. I probably should have scheduled tests around the lunar month. Too late now. LOL

Very interesting observations here.

This message was edited Nov 12, 2008 4:24 PM

Did you guys know there was a forum on Dave's for gardening by the moon?

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/lunarmania/all/

My BIL is an ER nurse. He feels that there are more trauma cases and babies born during a full moon. There must be something to this... Interesting!

Supposedly if you get your hair cut during the new moon, it will grow faster, too. I did it recently - I'll keep you posted!

Hey Steve, you forgot one, I also have notice in my 40 years in Retail that the moon has a lot to do with peoples attitude, even are own. I don't see why a animal can not have the same reaction we have. We are kinda the same. as far as brains go. they just work alittle diff.

Sorry to her about Magic.

Thanks, Mary.

And I think their brains work just the same as ours - but then, I'm biased . . .

They work better than ours. They never project themselves ahead of us, they never complain, they never hold grudges, they always respond in unconditional love, they continually give us a feeling of being accepted and valued. This could go on and on.
Please note that there is a greater tendency to siezure before Equinox, and Solstice. And much less the lunar cycle before each one. So Kathy I would look for the December 18-22 this year to be the seizure time.
Yes I have the lunar gardening site on for interesting aspects of plant and vermiculture activities during lunar cycles. Frogs Night crawlers and many more critters become very active during rapidly decreasing barometric pressures. We always picked up night crawlers as kids to sell to fisherman when thunder storms were present. Frogs also left the ponds and got crazy then too.

sofer, we're completely on the same page regarding the moon. It's all about the gravitational pull and electromagnetic fields involved. People are sensitive to that, too, but animals even more-so because they are more in tune with their bodies and instincts and not so 'in their heads' all the time. We can teach ourselves to be more sensitive to these things and for the better.
An interesting tangential thing about this is that in my work I have discovered that when I get a client with anxiety, even if it's as bad as panic attacks, if I teach them some meditation techniques that include 'grounding' their electromagnetic field, their anxiety is lessened immediately. No voodoo magic there at all. Just using the power of the mind to connect with the here and now, create a sense of connectedness with the feet planted firmly on terra firma and rooted into the earth like a tree.
Obviously our brains work better at rational thinking, but it's clear that this addiction we have to the 'rational' does not always serve our best interests. Animals are better than we are at sensing things we cannot sense. For instance, if people had listened to the animals, there would not have been massive death due to the tsunami that rocked indonesia. Animals headed for the hills. I think of them as our early warning system, if we could only listen better. I think it is hard for science to measure these things because there are simply too many variables, some of which we do not yet understand. It is clear to me that if we rely solely on the scientific method to determine things, we will be missing plenty.

Another interesting anecdote to add to this disucssion:

In 1964 I was 4 and lived in Fairbanks, Alaska. If you recall, that's the time of the terrible earthquake in Anchorage in which several houses slid down into the sea.

I remember the earthquake vividly and can still picture the street rolling during the quake (this was 370 miles away!!). Anyway, just before the quake our goldfish started "digging" at the sand in the bottom of the tank with their fins. Nobody knew why until the quake hit.

well it looks like a full moon tonight. Hopefully boo and magic wont have issues. I just heard some idiot squealing their tires or a wreck. Hopefully everything will be peaceful except for survivor.

I was wondering why I felt wierd all day! Just jumpy, sort of.
Kathy, that's a cool story about your fish!

Steve, thanks for the dates . . . so next Tuesday. I'll keep an eye out. Hopefully he WON'T seize when the dog sitter is here over Thanksgiving the next week. She's an ex vet tech, so I don't think she'll be too overwhelmed, but it's just not easy for anybody to watch.

Magic says, "Hang in there, Boo, buddy."

I have noticed living up here for 20 years and taking my dog out at 10:00 very night, that it is always much colder when there is a full moon.

It surely is colder up here tonight!! Last night was balmy compared to this. Brrrrrr!!

Down here too. It's downright chilly outside. Went to try and take pictures of the moon and had to come back in for a jacket.

This is the best I could do.