Please Help: Plants dying and I don't know why

I planted some flowers and three sky pencil hollies back in May. They settled and thrived all summer long. Now they are being picked off and I don't know why.

It started with one of my gaillardias. I'd had another gaillardia planted nearby that grew like crazy and sprawled, so I thought perhaps it was taking up its neighbor's moisture. Then the same thing happened to another gaillardia. This time I thought maybe some neighboring petunias (which had also grown like crazy) were taking all of this second plant's moisture, so I yanked them too. Still, the second gaillardia eventually died.

Then it started happening to one of my sky pencil hollies. It was doing great at the beginning of August. I went to Tenessee and then to Colorado, 7 days later when I got home, there was a bed of dead sky pencil leaves underneath it. I started watering it every day, but it just kept shedding leaves until it was bare. In case it matters, this sky pencil was located very near where the second gaillardia died.

A neighbor from across the street came over to chat, and mentioned that it might be grubs. She'd had several years worth of flower beds die before she figured out it was due to grubs.

Then, a second one of my sky pencils started doing the same thing. This sky pencil is located very near where the first gaillardia died. 24 hours after I noticed some of its bottom leaves starting to die and fall off, I had my girlfriend pull it to get it out of that soil and put it in a planter with fresh bagged topsoil. She said she saw no grubs down there, and even dug deeper under where the holly's roots were to look for them.

So, my second sky pencil has been in a planter for 2 weeks now, getting watered often, and it still has leaves turning brown and falling off. I have 2 other sky pencils (had 4 total originally) that are doing well, one of which was planted in May 2008, the other of which was planted a year ago in September 2007. However... now I have yet another gaillardia starting to die. About one third of it is brown and dying, with the other two thirds still looking green and healthy.

Can anyone please advise on this situation? I thought about putting down some GrubEx or something just to be safe, but can it penetrate mulch? Or, do I have to remove the mulch, put down GrubEx, then replace the mulch to make sure it gets down into the root zone? All of my other plants are doing pretty well -- I have several species of gaillardia, a couple azaleas, some echinaceas, daisies, tiger lillies, a rose bush, and various annuals that are all thriving... at least for now.

Thanks,

Dan

If you could post a picture of any plants that are still alive but showing symptoms that might be helpful in diagnosing the problem. Especially with very drought tolerant plants like gaillardia I'd always look at overwatering as a possibility--since you said you were worried about other plants stealing the gaillardia's moisture I suspect it's possible you were watering them too much (or even if you weren't, I know there's been weird weather in a lot of areas this summer so if you had a period where you got a ton of rain that could have done it too) The holly would have been more moisture tolerant, but still could have been overwatered particularly when you started watering it every day. Grubs could be a possibility, although if your girlfriend dug down quite a ways and didn't see any I think that makes them a little less likely. Here's an article about grubs that you may find helpful http://www.nysipm.cornell.edu/publications/grubs/default.asp?metatags_Action=Find('PID','5')

What soil type do you have? Clay soil will cause drainage issues. I have clay and the surface can be dry to the point of cracking but several inches below the surface it will still be quite wet which will cause root rot. Have you checked the condition of the roots on the plants that are dying?

Yes, the soil is mostly clay. As far as watering, I was following the "inch a week" guideline, except for the one week I mentioned when I went to TN and CO. As you can see in the photo, the lawn has been tilled up. I will be sowing new grass seed there this month. After that is done, I was going to mix in a couple bales of peat moss with some humus & manure to raise the flower beds up to the capstones in the retaining wall (also in photo). Would this alleviate any of the clay & drainage issues? How deep do gaillardia and sky pencil roots grow?

This is the second dying sky pencil. You can see a healthy one in the background. The first one was bare so I threw it away. I can post a photo of the dying gaillardia after everything dries up (it's raining right now).

As far as root rot, what should I look for?

Can anyone else answer the question about grub killer getting through mulch? I know it can penetrate thatch in a lawn, but what about wood mulch (about 1/2 inch thich)?

Unfortunately that holly looks far enough gone that it's hard to say what could have happened--do you have anything where there are at least some leaves that still have some green on them? It still may be really hard to tell though.

Some symptoms of root rot include wilting, leaves turning yellow and then eventually brown and/or falling off, or sometimes the leaves could look sort of blackish/brown and slimy, then eventually brown and falling off (wilting and yellowing leaves are also possible symptoms of underwatering, which is unfortunate since many people interpret them as underwatering and water some more, which of course makes the problem even worse). And the wilting and yellowing/browning leaves could also happen if you've got something like grubs that is munching on the roots.

For the gaillardias your inch a week of water could be too much--they can survive in really dry climates--even just your amount of annual rainfall without supplemental watering may be borderline too much for them with clay soil, and if you're adding an inch a week on top of that it could definitely cause problems. Hollies can handle more water though, but if your clay is really heavy that could be too much for them too. Or it's entirely possible that it's something else or that you've got a couple different problems going on. To check for watering issues, just before you were planning to water next, try sticking your finger down several inches into the ground and see how wet it is (or dig a small hole if the clay's crusted over and you can't get your finger down there)

Peat moss, etc., will help lighten your soil but you would need to get it down as deep as possible. If you just put it in the planting hole you can end up with a pot effect. The amended soil will drain better but when it reaches the surrounding clay, the water will fill the hole up like a pot. Roots that have been damaged from too much water will appear mushy or even be blackened and rotted off at the ends. Raising the flower beds will offer some relief from drainage issues if you raise it up enough.

I think it sounds like root rot as well. Clay soils hold lots of water and hollies don't like it wet, they like slightly moist. If you had plants inthere last year that rooted away you could have a disease called phytophthora root rot. Once it's in the soil it's almosr impossible to get rid of. If I were you instead of trying to guess and find out what other people think miles form you take that whole holly in a bag to your ag extension office. They can test it and tell you what happened. Then you'll know for sure and be able to avoid this problem again. I have planted many sky pencil hollies and the only problem I have had is no watering or weed wacking damage.

If you are showing the plant that is in the pot, then that will be the problem, it looks rather a large plant for the size of pot, Hollies like a good root run and if you were away for a week, then it's a long time for a pot plant to be without water in the hot weather, as for my own experiences, if a plant gets 2 chances and dont grow well, then it is telling me I dont have the right conditions for it to grow in my garden, you need to try find what conditions they like to try replicate that as best as you can, but you have lost different plants of the same type for it to be a coincidence, so you now really need to look at soil type, and possibly grubs eating the roots, climate, as in heat, shade etc, plants are costly so it is a shame this has happened for you over again, but do soil test (kits a a few bucks from garden store, look up what the plant likes ans dislikes so you dont waist more money in the future, Ecrare has the best idea for help in your situation by suggesting a picture close up of the damaged foliage etc, then we all ahve a better idea how to help further. good luck. WeeNel.

The holly isn't completely dead yet, so I took a close up where you can see both dead and green foliage. Some of the leaves are blackish, but not slimy. The rest are light to medium brown. Some of the green ones are browning at the tips. It's too far gone to save though, so I will lookup my ag office and take it there to find out what happened. What kind of costs am I looking at for this?

As far as putting in peat /amendments / raising everything up, yes, I was going to remove everything first to make sure the new soil is well mixed throughout. The two sides of my house that have all of this landscaping face the southeast and southwest, and the clay gets very parched and cracked at the top from the full sun. Part of my reason for doing this is to keep the soil from separating from my house's foundation, and to grade / slope the soil in the retaining wall to better drain water away from the house (so it's not just for the plants). I'm saving a section of the tilled-up lawn as a halfway home for the plants while this is being done, and plan to move them back afterwards.

I'll post a photo of the gaillardia in question right after this.

...and here is a photo of the half-dying gaillardia I mentioned in the first post. It was much bigger than this just a few weeks ago.

I bet the roots of your holly are not dead. The above ground look of the plant is pretty bad I'll admit but you do have some green still going on and that's why I think the roots may still be alive.
My ag extension office doesn't charge anything to look at plants and give me their advice.
Lin

just in my experience, i will say that the Fanfare Gaillardia is not the hardiest of plants for me. mine do great for a while and then eventually die off like yours. if you trim it back, and don't water too much, they should be ok, but i don't think they will overwinter in your zone. i could be wrong about that. then too, it's getting on into fall and they start losing their "zip" anyway, even here in florida.

I think they tend to be a lot shorter-lived in wetter climates--I definitely agree that they might not overwinter in Indiana. Even though they're technically hardy to zone 4 or maybe even a little colder, there's something about the combo of colder winters and wetter climates tends to be bad for them. This has jogged my memory, now I remember several discussions from earlier in the year where a lot of people in zone 5-6ish in the eastern part of the country were complaining about things that should have been hardy and didn't make it through the winter, and gaillardia was one that came up a lot.

as pretty as they are, i took them off my list of things to ever plant again. some perennials are just to "annual acting" for me! lol

I know the feeling, I'm not really into annuals so I give up on things too when they're supposed to be perennial but really aren't. With these though I'm in luck, in dryer climates they do just fine.

your zone 9 and my zone 9 are so totally different. something the books don't tell you-ya gotta learn it for yourself.

How do I find my local ag office? I don't know what to google, the keywords I'm using are turning up junk. There are a few universities down here in Cincinnati (I work at the University of Cincinnati, one of them) but none of them have an ag department.

Ohio State should have one, and most universities have extension offices in more places than just where the university is located. Here's a website that lists various agencies in Cincy and northern KY, there are a few extension offices listed. http://www.northernky.des.ky.gov/locallinks/agorg.htm#Cincinnati/Ohio (if you want to look for more, I googled Cincinnati agricultural extension office)

Dan,
On your sky pencils... I live in No. Va where clay is the name of the game. I planted two sky pencils last Oct in replacement for shrubs I had pulled... living but undesirable.
So my soil is mostly new topsoil/organic matter that I used to pot the plants. Done beautifully until about 2 weeks ago when various branches started to brown out. Nothing slimly about them, just going brown. I asked the arborist who came out to estimate maintenance on my gargantuan natchez crepe myrtle, and he told me phyotophthora ( a fungal) root rot and pretty much said the $$ for them treating it with Aliette (which is never an guarantee) would be significantly more than the cost of replacing them. Mine were about 4-5' and better than 12" wide when I bought them at $69 a piece at a nearby nursery.

Most of my annuals have been miserable and leggy this summer and I've pulled an number of them. I have tilled up grubs in various beds, so I'm not sure without digging in the hollies if there may be some grubs munching.... that said grubs like decaying matter so, if there is root rot, we are just giving them more readily digestible bug food.

The arborist told me to prune out the dying parts and not give up on them just yet. I'm off to find a cheaper source for the Aliette, and investigate the grub issue. If I do treat for grubs, I will remove mulch from beds, just to ensure that I treat the soil well.

To tackle the grub problem, try to identify them first as there are so many soil born grubs that you might not give the right treatment and could kill off some good guy's, some grubs live on/eat roots and can cause the death of plants/shrubs, some only live on decaying matter in the soil like worms only like dead or decaying matter, others fly in and lay eggs and the larve eat the roots/ leaves or tunnel into the stems, so best to try dig a few up and know what you are trying to deal with or you can spend money on the wrong stuff, good luck. WeeNel.

I use the grub stuff for your lawns in my flower beds too and that seemed to cure my problem-had a HUGE one last year-not so much this year...

I have the same problem w/ clematis that you are having, so I will be very curious to see what you find out...I have gaillardias and have had no problem yet with them returning, just an FYI...and I only water if it has been at least a week w/o rain and only for about 20mins-no clue as to how many inches that is....

Dan,

Here is your county extension office in Cincinnati ... http://hamilton.osu.edu/

This is Hamilton County (The Ohio State University) Extension office.

Click near the top on STAFF. Go down until you see Extension Educator Commercial Horticulture. (You may have to eventually talk to someone else however). Start with Joe Boggs. This is the right office for the help you need. They may need for you to send specimens or bring the specimens down. This is free service for those in your county. See what develops. They house a wealth of information and they're smart as tacks!!!

Karin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~