Companion planting forum anyone?

Rosie, do not feel badly about being in the sticks. It was not long ago that I moved where I am today and I had to wait for someone to cancel phone service to get on a phone party line. The phone company refused to run new cable all the way out here. They said there was not enough customers to warrant the expense. Living in the sticks has its disadvantages for sure but I would not trade it for anything.

Rose, I'll trade you for where I am for living in the sticks in Ireland. It sounds like they are doing something about the problem; hopefully they'll get the new line put in quickly.

Cr0ak, I heard that too about marigolds attracting red spider mite. I think your conditions are just too humid. Can you grow wild fennel where you are? it's a lovely plant and attracts a lot of preditors - specifically hover flies. They see a lot of the nasties off in my garden. I've got some spare seed if you are interested. Just Dmail me.
Katie and zhinu - I LOVE being in the sticks despite the lack of services. I have a huge garden and donkies in the field behind me. I wouldn't swap with anyone for all the technology in China. LOL. Even if I come to the small town of Cavan to catch up on email I can't wait to get home again. On top of that I got this view from my window.

Rose, that's beautiful! I understand completely; I wasn't saying you should move, just that I want to live in Ireland, preferably somewhere like you do. :o)

Rose - thank you very much for the seed offer. :) I think, though, that fennel is in the same family as dill, carrots, etc., which tend to do poorly during the summer heat/humidity here(although they do well in fall/winter/spring), and that's when the critters are at their worst.

I'm still trying to figure out how to grow rhubarb down here, too. It's something that I was easily able to grow up north (Chicago area), but it apparently just can't handle the heat and humidity (nor have I been able to grow angelica - something else I'd LOVE to have). I really miss the rhubarb pies and raspberry-rhubarb soufflé and raspberry-rhubarb jam. (Yes, I can buy rhubarb at the market, but $3.99/lb. is kind of pricey, IMO - especially when you're used to it being "free"!) LOL

Oh... and your view is gorgeous! Ditto what zhinu said about wanting to live in Ireland.

You are both very welcome to look me up if you ever manage a trip here. I'm from the UK so I'm just getting use to the wonderful countryside.
I wish you luck in your search for companion plants cr0ak. Sorry I can't help out more.

:-)) Rosie

Rosie, I actually have a B.A. in UK history. I did two trips to the UK, 35 and 45 days, I jumped over to Ireland the second trip for 6 days, I think, but the majority of that time was spent in Northern Ireland.

Being fairly new to DG, I too would like to see something with companion planting; and/or biodynamics as Evelyn mentioned above. My story is long, but in short...I've been putting together a garden plan for quite some time (years), reading many books on flowers, veggies, herbs, integrating medicinal*companion*canning* freezing*drying; preparing soil, composting....on&on. I recently moved on some wonderful land and will finally be able to begin my dream garden next spring!! So, I have minimal personal experience on gardening, other than my previous tiny balcony garden. (Here's a pic)

Finding DG has been very exciting and I have barely tapped into all the terrific info available here from so many experienced gardeners. Nevertheless, I did look for those two topics when reviewing different threads.

I'm surprised we haven't heard from Admin on this forum, when I was trying to get an herbal medicine forum opened we had a note from Admin early on. Maybe we need to start a new thread titled "we want a Companion planting and biodynamic forum" or "Who would like to see a Companion planting and biodynamic forum" I know I spent a lot of time trying to get information on this last Spring and Summer; I posted in Containers, Beginner Gardening Questions, and Herbs; I never got an answer to my question. It would be wonderful if there was a thread where people would actually be looking to find information and answer questions.

Everyone close your ears and squint your eyes.

HEY ADMIN HERE WE ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU LISTENING???

roseimp. What a lovely view. I may not get to Ireland, but have always wanted to see your wonderful area. I live in the desert part of WA state, and have to irrigate about 7 or 8 months of the year.

Donna

Donna, hello neighbor! Well relatively at least. You should join us on What weird weather we're having http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/923041/ There are few enough of us in this corner of the country.

Laura

This whole issue is so controversial (and so open to being entirely controverted!) that I would personally love to participate in such a forum.

Let me be totally upfront:
I think it is all crap!
Which is not to say that I do not check on (and try to follow) those "good neighbours"/"bad neighbours" in my gardening books and other sources when I plant, because I figure: why not do all you can to ensure good planting and a good harvest?

But there are so many contradicting "traditions".

And some of this is so "obvious" --- but for "other" reasons --- that I would not call it "companion planting"/"anti-companion planting":
garlic +/or lavender with roses to ward off insects; nasturtiums to attract aphids; "French" marigolds [the newest hybrids are useless] to ward off insects and gardeners.
I once tried to grow veggies beneath 2 150-year-old oak trees with no success!

Maybe we need a definition of what we are talking about before we are 'granted' a Forum.
In my mind, "Companion Planting" has positive and negative sides (and has nothing to do with warding off nasty bugs or making stupid planting mistakes!)

On the positive side: "Companion Planting" would mean :

A. if Plant Q is planted next to or in the near vicinity of Plant Z (Plant Q being the more desired 'crop'), Plant Q will do/grow/produce better than if it were planted alone;

OR

B. if Plant Q is planted next to or in the near vicinity of Plant Z (Plants Q and Z being more or less equally desired 'crops'), they will both do/grow/produce better than if they were planted away from each other;

OR,
at a most minimal level,

C. if Plant Q is planted next to or in the near vicinity of Plant Z (Plant Q being the more desired 'crop'), Plant Q will NOT do/grow/produce less well than it would have done if planted in total isolation.


On the negative side: "Companion Planting" would mean :

A. if Plant Q is planted next to or in the near vicinity of Plant Z (Plant Q being the more desired 'crop'), Plant Q will do/grow/produce less well than if it were planted alone;

OR

B. if Plant Q is planted next to or in the near vicinity of Plant Z (Plants Q and Z being more or less equally desired 'crops'), they will both do/grow/produce more poorly than if they were planted away from each other.

In whatever case, I would want to hear about good scientific studies (with controls) that supported or rejected any of the above;
OR
really good, unbiased tests, with controls and complete supporting data done by DGers.

I am copying this (with references) to Admin and the S&C Forum.

Potagere

Wow, I did not know that being technically accurate and having showing your proof was a requirement at DG. That is good to know. I am going to run right over to the moon planting forum and get some good information, now that I know how stringent DG is. That inspires the conclusion that I will find some really accurate moon planting information over there. Thanks.

Actually, I think sticking with broad definitions and letting the discussions find their own way would make for a more active and more interesting forum, if this does turn into to a forum.

I'm all for scientific proof, but anecdotal evidence often forms the basis of theories which then get tested in experimental studies.

To me, companion planting has to do with any/all issues involving combining different plants, including attracting beneficial insects, repelling pests, even finding good "shoes and socks" plants for various beds. Overly rigorous definitions would just impede discussion, I think. You can always start individual threads for discussing specific ideas for improving growth/production, etc.

I am in total agreement, Jill. BTW I really enjoyed your e-community article this week.

I totally disagree!

"Anecdotal evidence" for companion planting has existed for about 2000 years. It remains contradictory and, well, anecdotal.

So, what's the point?
Anywhere else on DG, if something did not work for me, I'd be referred to "definitive" resources.

Any meaningful discussion requires that we all agree about what we are discussing!

An open, ambiguous "forum" on [indefined] "companion" planting would be, a mon avis, just about as useful as a Forum on "Wiccha Planting" or, perhaps more relevant to the determined elimination of any parameters: "Planting by Dice".

Thank you. Your negative vote is in. Fortunately, for all concerned, you will not be forced to participate in any forum in which you have no interest.

I bought a book years ago (Rodale) Companion Gardening and tried a few things from that book. At the time I was working with several people who considered themselves experts at gardening and they felt the same way Jim does. So I didn't put a lot of effort into it. I was much younger then. I couldn't really discuss this with people who didn't have an open mind. So I'm looking forward to this forum where I can give it another shot and maybe see some results. And maybe I'll find out that Jim is right and its all a bunch of crap. But I will have fun trying it out and discussing this with everyone here.

One other thing -- I understand what Jim is trying to say about the performance of one plant if its located near another one, etc... but I'm more interested in plants that attract the beneficial insects that will benefit the other plant... you probably know more of what I'm trying to say then I can say myself!

Oh let's just have some fun!
Rose

I recently read a book about how weeds help other desireable plants to produce more abundantly. I would like to read what others have planted among their tomatoes or flowering plants and all seem to have grown better than normal.

A thousand years ago bakers didn't know how or why the ingredients made bread. They knew from experience that if certain procedures were followed bread could be made. It wasn't until the last few hundred years scientists could explain how and why following certain procedures produced a loaf of bread.

I've also read that science can prove it is impossible for bumble bees and helicopters to fly. Most of the time I understand and agree with the logic and proof offered by scientists, but, I just can't bring myself to toss out "Old Wives" tales with a better than average track record that scientists can't explain.

Count me as an interested vote for a Companion Gardening forum.
Gary

It has been said that folks who go to all of the trouble to follow the moon guide usually pay more attention to the plants themselves and therefore water better and weed better, etc. The same is said of folks who swear by talking to their plants. While you are standing there chatting you are probably also picking off dead leaves and checking water needs, etc. People who are diligent about one aspect of gardening are probably also more diligent about the other things that make a garden grow. In my life I have known two gardeners who always followed moon charts for their garden and raising their children and I have to admit that they had exemplary gardens and children. It seemed like weaning children and livestock and potty training and everything else that they did went so much more smotthly than it did for me. Was it the moon or were they just better at these things than I was? I do not know and would admit to either one as a possibility. I do not attribute it to coincidence because it worked for them every year whether it be heat or drought that killed other gardens did not matter theirs thrived.
I would love to chat with others and give it a good honest try.

Admin has informed me that there is not sufficient interst at this time to create a Forum.

We only have 55 people interested.

They won't tell me how many people are needed.

So, what do you think is the best Forum within which we can just create our own "mini-forum" to discuss this important topic?

I've never visited the Garden Talk forum so I don't know if it is suitable or if they would mind. Not all of the members interested are beginning gardeners like me.

We could go about anywhere if we had a special notation for our posts in the subject line, ie., CP What can I plant among my ... The CP would denote Companion Planting.

I don't know about the rest of you but I scan the Latest Threads portion of my home page. If saw one with a CP in the subject line I would know to check it out. I don't know if Admin would object to the subterfuge but I can't think of any AUP rules we are circumventing.

Gee, I don't know. How about the forum that is labeled, "Moon Gardening"?

We need to work on this.
The 'Gardening by the Moon" Forum has about as many active participants as we seem to have interested in' Companion Planting".
Maybe someone more politic than I needs query Admin.

Meanwhile,
even without agreement on a definition:
How many DGers want to talk about 'Companion Planting' as a subject all its own?

I would like it as a subject on its own. Because it is as controversial and has as limited as the moon gardening, they might be good companion forums.

I posted, but it looks like Potagare already expressed some of my viewpoints.

The example that makes me laugh out loud is "Carrots Love Tomatoes". My tomato plants get 6-8 feet tall. They would totally block out the sunlight and give me very poor carrots. Also the roots of the tomato plants would interfere with the growth of the carrots. Tomatoes benefit from VERY well amended soil. Carrots can have problems if the soil is "too rich". Finally, at least in Houston, Carrots are grown from December through March. Tomatoes are grown from March through August. They aren't even in the ground at the same time in my garden.

If people posted about things that *actually worked for them*, then I'd be all for a forum like this. If it's just repeating the same urban (and rural :)) legends that have been going for 2000 years, then it's one step above a chit-chat forum IMO.

This message was edited Nov 21, 2008 4:19 PM

This message was edited Nov 21, 2008 4:21 PM

Why does it have to be one or the other? I have enjoyed conversation in many of the forums at DG and I have learned from the threads that had specific and relevent scientific information. I have also learned from folks who just shared their experiences with no control group or data journal. Sometimes I read the threads just for the pure pleasure of it and not cared if I learned a darn thing.

I'm the kind of guy you'd see wearing a belt and suspenders. I'm sure one of them won't be enough to keep my pants up but I'm not sure which one it is.

In gardening terms: I want my hydrangea blooms to be blue. The old wive's solution would be to put iron (nails, a horseshoe, etc) in the ground near them. The scientific approach is to add aluminum sulphate to the ground around them. Next spring I'll probably do both. Just to be sure in case one of them isn't enough. I might buy more hydrangeas to plant in a different area to do a case study of each alternative.

I'm sure there will be plenty of both (scientific methods and old wive's tales) offered as suggestions. Each of us will be free to try whichever suggestion(s) moves us and report back how the ideas worked for us.

I'd actually rather see discussion threads on Companion Planting in different forums, because I think the topic is somewhat specific to different types of plants... and also because I probably wouldn't make it over to a separate forum for the topic, but I'd gladly participate in threads that came up on my other watched forums. (I enjoyed reading threads on Gardening by the Moon, but I think I've only made it over to that forum once or twice once it was separated out as its own thing.)

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, because I do think it's an interesting topic and worth discussing... I just find I lose track of a lot of topics once they turn into their own specialized forums.

Like you, Kathy, I have learned from all the diversity here.
But, don't you often want to focus?

I can go to the "Soil & Composting' Forum, for example, and get lost in technicalities of various techniques of composting without ever understanding which composting idea is being promoted (and what other threads may have already said about it).

Just so there is a lot of info on Companion Planting scatterred all over DG, but it sure would be nice to have it all in one place where those if us who thought it important could talk about it and exchange experience.

But critterologist,
we see you everywhere!

And I suspect your NO vote just out-weighed 10 votes of us littles who wanted something new.

Not so... I promise Dave doesn't count my vote extra! ROFLOL I've voiced similar concerns when other forums (especially ones for individual plants) were created... I have a lot of garden interests, but I just can't keep up with so many separate forums! Note that those forums were created despite my personal preferences. :-)

It used to be that one "litmus test" for creating a new forum was whether the topic was in danger of taking over an existing forum... for example, were there so many posts and discussions about Salvias on the Perennials Forum that other topics could hardly get a post in edgewise? If not, Salvias stayed in the Perennials forum. Obviously that's no longer the approach... there's a separate forum for Salvias now and for a host of other plants.

I'm just not convinced that every nifty plant or interesting topic "deserves" its own forum when there's another place to reasonably discuss it. And I think a lot of those newly created forums end up being fairly inactive once the initial rush dies down (I don't know how active the Salvia forum is, so please don't think I was picking on it -- just an example of how forums are being created now).

Feldon: "Finally, at least in Houston, Carrots are grown from December through March. Tomatoes are grown from March through August. They aren't even in the ground at the same time in my garden."

I currently have both growing in my garden. Although I have most of my carrots in a separate bed, I do have some growing around my tomatoes (3 romas and a Julia Child). I also have pesto basil planted in between my tomato plants because I was told that basil has a hormone that's beneficial to tomatoes. I have (or will have) a bumper crop of tomatoes - if they ever ripen! (If not, I'll be making a LOT of fried green tomatoes and/or tomato relishes!) LOL

I think companion planting can mean many things, as most people have commented already. To me it means several things: 1.) not planting things next to each other that don't like each other or may make the veggie taste bad (daughter mentioned to me several days ago that several years ago she had planted two things in close proximity, maybe tomatoes and cukes?, and one of them tasted terrible... very "earthy"); 2.) plants that will enhance the productivity of each other; 3.) plants that will invite beneficials and repel/confuse nasties (e.g. white geraniums planted in amongst your veggies will help repel, and may even kill, Japanese beetles); 4.) plants that may not do any of the previous things except provide needed shade for one of them.

I'm sorry if I confused the issue.. I wasn't here "back in the day," but it seems to me I remember more limiting criteria for creating new forums when I first arrived.

And it may well be that in the case of companion planting, the discussion will be synergized by gathering the diverse threads on the topic into one place... I think that will be the case with the relatively new Earthbox forum (sorry, I know it has a better name than that), for instance.

There would be value in having companion gardening threads in other forums. It could be beneficial information or just a fun experiment for any gardener who might not bother to go to a different forum when their only interest is growing gourds. I have read threads where a questions was asked and an answer given along with a P.S. suggesting they query be presented in a forum specific to their needs for better clarification. At the same time a person who wants to experiment with companion planting for its own sake would be run all over the web site and have trouble gleaning information about plant companions as it is mixed up with discussions over whether to plant in hills or rows. I am still playing with this site. I am a newbie and still a little lost and spreading myself too thin. I have always joked about being a compulsive reader. If it is written then I must read it. The internet is my blessing and curse. A companion gardening forum with different threads for different vegetables, flowers, trees, etc would have my attention. I do not do a lot of vegetable gardening anymore. The children are grown and gone and my days of canning are over. I do not see myself spending a lot of time in the DG vegetable patch. If the companion gardening forum says that kale and nasturtiums enhance each other, I might plant some kale. If the vegetable forum has this information I probably will not see it. I know that taking a "if you build it they will come" approach might not be worth the time of the DG staff. The problem is that until the forum exists long enough for folks to be aware, no one will know what could have been.

Back to Feldon30 and Carrots & Tomatoes.
The Vegetable Gardener's Bible, by Edward C. Smith, published 2000 by Storey publishing, lists good and bad companions for the veggies it covers.
For carrots, it lists beans, brussels sproutsm cabbage, chives, leaf lettuce, leeks, onions, peas, peppers, red radishes, rosemary, sage and tomatoes as "good companions".
For tomatoes, it lists asparagus, basil, bush beans, the cabbage family, carrots, celery, chives, cucumbers, garlic, head lettuce, marigolds, mint, nasturtiums, onions, parsley, peppers and pot marigolds as "good companions".

I don't really know about tomatoes and carrots, I never have any luck with carrots anywhere! I have grown lettuces of all kinds (not just head lettuces) among my tomatoes (and onions) and gotten good crops, while keeping the weeds down in both instances. I don't know that either the lettuces, the onions or the tomatoes "benefited" from the association other than the fact that there was more lettuce than if I had only grown it in its own bed, and there were fewer weeds among the onions and the tomatoes; so, there was an overall benefit to me!

Hi, everyone!

I read someplace just recently that if two plants 'dislike' each other, the stronger will grow more roots, and will win, and take all the soil and nutrients. One invisible way that companion planting works.

Melissa

My kids are grown but still living at home and prefer eating at home instead of going out so that's another reason I want to get the vegetable garden going. Also being out of work motivates me more too to keep grocery costs down. I want to be as organic as possible too. Growing vegetables was never attractive to me because I kept thinking of the flowers I could grow there. I intend to grow some flowers amongt the vegetables somehow, besides marigolds. There's so much talk on how beneficial marigolds are too. Don't know what I believe on that front, except they do keep the critters at bay. I did try growing garlic with roses way back when but didn't like how things looked so I don't know if I would do that again. I do think pepper plants are beautiful though and have planted them throughout my garden but I think they could have performed better if they weren't part of my flower garden.