Please give me info on bio-intensive/companion gardening!

(Laura) Olympia, WA(Zone 8a)

I posted this elsewhere, but hopefully I'll get an answer here. What I really want to know is:

How to figure out how much space plants need for a bio-intensive planting.
Are there any of the plants I listed that do especially well or badly together. Is there anything else I might not be aware of in bio-intensive gardening?

I'd like to turn the bed and get started planting, but at least on the planting I need to plot out the garden first.

I want to try to do a full garden, but I don't know how to plot it out. I need to know what to put where and how much space I should give each plant. I want to have it completely filled in when it matures. I want the largest plants in the back with the plants like creeping thyme, saffron and wild thyme blurring the edge of the lawn.

Here are the plants I want to plant:
Basil Ocimum ?
Black Cumin Nigella sativa
Catnip Nepeta cataria
Chives Allium schoenoprasum
Cilantro Coriandrum sativum spp. Santo
Creeping Thyme Thymus praecox
Dill Anethum graveolens
Echinacea Echinacea purpurea
Garlic Allium sativum
Garlic Chives Allium tuberosum
Ginger Mint Mentha x gracilis
Onions Allium capa
Oregano (Zorba Red) Origanum vulgare subsp. Hirtum spp. Zorba Red
Oregano Origanum vulgare
Peppermint Mentha x piperita
Raspberry Rubis idaeus
Rosemary Rosmarinus officinalis
Safflower Carthamus tinctorius
Saffron Crocus sativus
Sage Saliva … any/all
Scarlet Pineapple Sage Saliva elegans spp. Scarlet Pineapple
Spearmint Mentha spicata
Strawberry Fragaria x ananassa Correct name for standard domesticated strawberries?
Tarragon Artemisia dracunculus
Welsh Onion Allium fistulosum
Wild Thyme Thymus serpyllum

I need to know where I should put these and decide which ones I don't have room for. I'll put those in containers.

I have more information on all these plants if you need it.

Here's a picture of my basic plotting map. The length on this picture is more or less 38' on the sides 39' top and bottom. The soil currently sucks, so I need to do something about that, it's currently very sandy. Full morning sun on the herb garden, left side of map. Though if I want shade plants the thin side area is partial to full shade. The upper area, right side, get pesticides from the street side grass, so I don't want to plant it with edible plants. Wind is generally moderate, shouldn't be a problem for the plants being up against the house and blocked somewhat by the fences, but the yard does sometimes get heavy winds. No wind breaks in the area (clear cut housing complex) and we get a couple wind storms a year. Plants need to be able to deal with wet soil for extended periods of time, I live in WA, but I'd like to not have to water constantly. I'm willing to do some in containers if that would be better suited.

Thumbnail by zhinu
Barnesville, GA(Zone 7b)

I would have a soil test done. Your county extension agent will provide you with bags which you fill from different areas in your bed. It has been a while since we filled out the form but, I seem to remember you are asked what you plan to plant and that makes a difference in what the recommendations are for additives. It looks like you have big plans for the bed and having your soil tested will definitely help you in being successful.

Dublin, CA(Zone 9a)

I don't know much about bio-intensive gardening, but you're growing a lot of things that don't like a ton of water there, so needing to "deal with wet soil for extended periods of time" could be a problem for many of the herbs. But do you know how wet your soil actually stays? I know you get a lot of rain, but I would think sandy soil would drain pretty quickly so it may not be that much of a problem. But if it's in a low area where water collects or something then that'll definitely be an issue. Most herbs like sun and heat though for best performance (they're mostly native to Mediterranean climates with hot dry summers) so in your climate I worry that some of them may not get the amount of sun/heat they need, but it's worth trying and you'll learn over time which ones will do OK for you and which ones won't (or you might head over the Pacific Northwest forum and find out which ones people from your area have had luck with to save yourself some time). As far as your soil, a lot of herbs actually like poor soil and will do better there than in rich soil, so you may not need to do much--if you were trying to grow veggies or something then I'd do all the soil tests and amendments, etc but for herbs "less is more". One suggestion though--I would definitely put the mint in a pot, it is a very aggressive spreader so unless you want it to take over your whole yard a pot is a much better place for it.

Pittsburgh, PA(Zone 6a)

I was also going to suggest potting both the mints, and possibly the oregano too. Our oregano crowded out the other plants in its pot.

I'm not sure about the others, but I know basil really doesn't like too much water. It will turn yellow and eventually die. Mine nearly died this year from too much rain, and you have a lot more than we do. It really needs to dry out and get some sun. We've also had worse dill this year.

Our chives flourish in nasty weather, bad soil, and bad sun. If they get even a couple hours of sun, they are covered in flowers. Oregano and rosemary hold up well. Parsley and cilantro seem to be ok with rain too.

(Laura) Olympia, WA(Zone 8a)

I know most of the herbs grow just fine here and most of them deal better with full morning sun then full afternoon. The Herb garden is full sun, morning. The ground, unless I do something drastic, and I don't have the money for that, drains quite well. I'm worried about the days where we have constant rain. I lost some bulbs to rot this winter due to that. If I plant those flowers again I'll pull the bulbs during the winter.

I am aware of mint and raspberry being invasive, and I'll plant to account for that. At least they don't keep poping up when you pull them like bind weed.

I'll keep the oregano problem in mind, but "pruning" should deal with that.

Maybe I should post this in containers to get the answers I need. I know this is used a lot in container planting.

Dublin, CA(Zone 9a)

If those herbs in general grow fine there then I don't think you have anything to worry about. And if your soil already drains well there's not much else you can do--it's the people who have clay soil and live in areas with lots of rain that have to go to extreme lengths to try and improve drainage. Also if most of your heavy rain is in the winter then you should be fine--as long as the soil drains well most Mediterranean plants can tolerate a decent amount of water in the winter since that's what their native climates have, it's too much summer rain that will kill them.

(Laura) Olympia, WA(Zone 8a)

Depends on the summer. We had a horrible Spring, but the summer has been too hot. I think you got a lot of this as well. Though you missed the May snow. I thought last year was bad when we got snow after St. Patrick's day.

Lakeland, FL

Not sure this will help, but here in central Florida, the-desert-with-flooding-rains, RAISED BEDS do wonders at keeping many of your problems at bay. There is no turning of the soil. You just add layers of stuff to whatever is already there -- weeds, lawn, etc. -- and you put down a heavy layer of newspapers or cardboard, wet them down, and move to the next layers which can be your choice of leaves, compost, top soil, rabbit pellets, grass clippings, alternating brown and green layers, and if enough time, allow some settling in time for your new garden before planting.

A friend gets coffee grounds from Starbucks for free for his raised beds. It is OK to pile up the stuff even taller than your side rails as it will sink in a bit. A layer of compost is essential even if you have to buy it! Hair trimmings from your barber or beauty shop work well as a layer. A feather layer if you have friendly chickens or such, works well too. If near the ocean, absolutely apply a layer of seaweed. In a short time this hodge-podge of stuff will turn into black gold that your plants will love, so long as you NEVER turn the mixture. Let the in-coming worms do that for you.

Of course you can plant this wondrous bed immediately, but if a time delay is possible, then let it rest a bit first if you can.

Happy gardening!

(Laura) Olympia, WA(Zone 8a)

Interesting concept and I have considered doing a lasagna garden at one point. But, I don't think it will work for me this time.

What I want to know is how close I can plant my plants and have them still thrive?!

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

Zhinu, many plants are like goldfish, they will make due with what you give them. What is optimal size or production in your garden may not satisfy another gardener. I used to grow three foot tall marigolds and sheer them with hedge trimmers. I now grow twelve inch marigolds and hope they deter some bugs. Tomatoes will produce in some shade, but not a lot.

Your list is ambitious and involves some plants that are better planted in warm weather while others thrive in cool. Our cilantro and parsley is reseeding for a second season round under the climbing beans. The mints are declining in the heat. Echinacia is winding down, thyme is reflowering. Everything is on a different schedule. You have lots of herbs with a variety of cultural requirements (and optimal planting times) listed. My suggestion is to winnow the list a bit, plant your "must haves" during the appropriate time and fill in to intensify the use of space. I like to think of gardening as an evolutionary process without an absolute plan.

(Laura) Olympia, WA(Zone 8a)

I'm working on planning what I want when it's finished. It'll probably take me over a year to get it put together. I want a general plan so I know what I need and where to put things as I get them.

Though I am interested in ideal times to plant things. Is there a webpage or book that lists that type thing? I haven't seen anything in my books except for when to sow or prune. Most of the plants I get will be transplants.

Woodway, TX(Zone 8a)

You seem to be trying to project a plan that may or may not work out in real life. I don't want to sound negative, but plants are living things and don't always conform to the expectations we may have of them.

(Laura) Olympia, WA(Zone 8a)

I understand that no plan survives the first engagement, but if I don't have any plan to change I think I'll be overwhelmed or get carried away and not like what I end up with.

Woodway, TX(Zone 8a)

That sounds reasonable! The best of luck to you in your project.

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