Medicinal plant forum?

I grew it , In my yard some thing either dies or pulled up for room .
It took years but I don't need / use anymore .
It taste different around garlic , onions , nasteriums and pearigomiums .
Probably pollen from other plants .
After established , like borage , it self seeds all over the place .
I made a very strong tea and froze in ice cubes . I flavored with honey . You can find little ice cube trays at dollar stores . I used a big cube for a pitcher and a small cube for a big glass .
I dried by hanging on the coils of old freezer in garage . It gets moldy easy . but we have a lot of fog here .

I couldn't get to that Sea Buckthorn article from the link, but found it on Plants For A Future also.
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Hippophae+rhamnoides
Growing the plants sound do-able if one has the space. Sounds like it only produces fruit on female plants, so that's what you'd need.

I have Sea Buckthorn (aka Seaberries) on my want list for my fruit orchard. http://burntridgenursery.com/fruitingPlants/index_product.asp?dept=43&parent=28

With millions uninsured because they cannot afford to visit a doctor, a forum on medicinal plants (definitely with disclaimer) can at least help them (and anyone else) to understand and to research concerning health issues, so I am very much for this forum.

Also, as a gardener, I'm interested in growing plants both for their beauty and usefulness. Right now, I'm transitioning into gardening with deer. So far, they are resisting our ongoing efforts at barriers, and there are local regulations limiting use of barriers to a certain height - not to mention electric ones. Who knew that those big, fat leaves of horseradish, surrounded by a sea of Kentucky Colonel spearmint, could be purtier than a well-chewed/demolished Hosta 'Frances Williams'? (Horseradish & spearmint do have medicinal uses)

So, I'd be interested in medicinal plants not only for their health uses, but also aesthetically, historically, mystically (remember Drdon's thread that touched on shamanism and medicinal herbs? It sure would be great to find that link again)...for any reason, because sometimes useful knowledge can come from unpredictable directions.

Karen

BTW - If you have any symptoms of Bi-polar/manic-depressive be really careful with herbal anti-depressants. Preferably talk to a doctor before taking them. Before I was diagnosed I tried St. John's Wort and it made me cycle dangerously. It's part of the reason I finally did get diagnosed.

zhinu, are you on prescription medication for that? I'm asking because of a relative who might be diagnosed soon.

Yes, right now it's Lamictal. It's working fairly well, though I'm hoping my psychologist will raise the amount as I've still been having some issues this month; more situational then biochemical, but enough that over flow that I think I need a stronger dose. But, on the other hand I've been having a couple days where I felt truly human, which is nice.

This message was edited Jul 20, 2008 7:47 PM

zhinu, your experience underlines the importance of taking responsibility for our own health responsibly. There are times a little tisane will do the trick, but we should only attack serious problems with the help of a professional, whether that be a certified herbalist or a medical doctor. Sure would be nice to find someone who was both!

herbalbetty, the difference, once again, is in the money. A company can't patent SJW, but they sure can patent (and control, and profit from) a phytopharmaceutical!

Yes, I agree completely! It's one thing to take raspberry leaf tea to help with cramps, it's another to treat a serious disease or health problem with herbal remedies alone, or at least without supervision of a doctor. Basically, for me, if i would treat it with over the counter medication I can look for herbal remedies, if I'd go to the doctor for it, I don't or at least wait to talk to a doctor.

My sister doesn't like doctors and tries to avoid going to one. She tends to try to diagnose herself from what she gets from books and the internet. I remember at least one time she got in real trouble doing that. She was treating herself for a condition she didn't even have and taking something that turned out to be quite dangerous taken without any medical supervision. Thankfully, she went to a doctor after she started getting dizzy. Quite often, without lab, other tests and the medical education and experience of a doctor it's just too confusing. That being said, there are alternative practitioners that are pretty good at what they do. I've heard of some that even work out of the same office as some regular M.D.'s...who are open to a more enlightened approach. I just wish my insurance would cover such practitioners. I can seldom afford them out of pocket. But I'm thankful for the medical coverage I have. I haven't always had any. I'm glad you are taking the medication, zhinu. I had read up on bipolar when I heard that my relative might have it...he has no insurance right now, which really worries me.

One of the things I am segregating in a folder on my desktop is information about the weeds in my yard that are edible. Some of them are probably medicinal herbs but not all medicinal herbs are edible, so I want information on all that's not common to me, and edible.

There are a few books available. I've got one, Edible and Useful Plants of Texas and the Southwest. It's a good one for my state.

"Weed 'em and Reap" is a good start for foraging -- includes a recipe for cattail pancakes! But you really need a plant ID book to go along with it. That's what's scary -- when I first started getting interested in herbs about 30 years ago, I was all excited to find chamomile growing wild -- NOT! It was fleabane. Luckily I had the sense to make sure whether it was chamomile before I made tea...

LindaTX8 - It is hard when you don't have insurance. I didn't have any for several years after I was diagnosed. With doctors supervision I went off anti-depressants for about a year and tried to deal with it using coping skills, it worked, but not well. The meds were just too expensive. I did find the money for the anti-mania medication. The depression is easier to self-diagnose but the mania is what does the most harm (other then serious cases of depression where you can't get out of bed, much less care for yourself, then they are equal). It's just most people don't realize that when their mouth runs off with them, or they're spending too much, or binge drinking, or sleeping with people they don't know or being violent for no reason, or etc.. (there are many different things people can do in a mania, and no I did not do all of these) That they are suffering from a manic episode.

darius - do you just want edible weeds or food that has medical benefits as well?

zhinu... so far I'm just collecting info. on edible weeds. I have both volumes of Mrs. Grieve's work on medicinal herbs and maybe next year I will start to identify the ones growing on my property (19 acres, hillside and creekside).

There is a plant ID forum here. Also if there is a native plant organization near you, they might possibly agree to help you with ID's. I know because I belong to such an organization and on occasion we go out on "outings" as we call it to walk around and ID plants. Or people bring photos, plants or pieces of plants to our meetings to find out what they are. Of course, not everything is native, but quite often we recognize nonnatives also.

A good book is The Herb Society of America - New Encyclopedia of Herbs & their Uses . It's from 2001 and is marked 40 dollars on jacket . Cheaper used on Amazon . Deni Brown

I have a lot of reservations about alternatives to western medicine on a gardening site. I have been taught that the only good way to use alternative medicines is to have someone who is both western trained as an MD and then board certified in whatever alternative medicine they are practicing in.

Further, I have been taught that every herbal remedy you take is just like a medicine given by your own physician. Without knowing what the interactions of all medicines are, this could really get on a slippery slope quickly. Although each person is respsonsible for their own physical health, many people think that if something can be bought over the counter or grown at home, it can't be dangerous.

just my 2cents worth

darius - you might also try Native plants and wild plants forum Someone on there should be able to help you.

gessiegail wrote;"I have a lot of reservations about alternatives to western medicine on a gardening site. I have been taught that the only good way to use alternative medicines is to have someone who is both western trained as an MD and then board certified in whatever alternative medicine they are practicing in.:

I think some people are thinking of this the way you are. I'm not looking for an Alternative Medicine Forum, I want a Medicinal Plant Forum. I want to learn to identify and care for medicinal plants, but I don't particularly want advice on using them.

Just out of curiousity, I've never heard of anyone being Boarded in any Alternative Modalities, how is that accomplished, and by what "Board"? I'm familiar with MD's who offer a Holistic approach, but have never any claim to be actually Board Certified in, for example, TCM, Herbal Medicine or Acupuncture. If you have info on this, could you drop me a quick link by Dmail, so as to not clog this thread?
Thanks!

Catmad... that brings up an interesting question (and different train of thought)... Board Certification. What does that really mean? Well, I found this:

It's easier when you're dealing with Veterinarians. What you've posted would be the criteria for ABVP certification;
http://www.abvp.com/what_cert.htm
I don't place much stock in that kind of Board Certification, I like this kind..
http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/board_certified.asp
These Vets really know their Specialty.

Gotta be careful about "certifications" and know just what it means...

All I know is that when I used acupuncture, my internist sent me to an MD who was trained in China for practicing acupuncture (and was board certified in China and then had to come to the US to pass boards equivalent to passing boards for Western doctors in both acupuncture and internal medicine)

By the way, board certification is a big deal. I wouldn't go to a doctor who wasn't board certified. After residency and internship (or fellowship) students study to pass the boards to get board certified.

As far as nutrition or herbal medicine I don't know what requirements are required to be offering advice.

As far as state boards are concerned - look are at drivers - they studied enough to pass tests . Doctors are the same most have a hard time learning enough to pass tests much less learn alternative stuff .
Like buying are car ask people you know - experience is the best teacher . Ask , " What is best book for side effects - no answer - go somewhere else .

gessiegail wrote;"By the way, board certification is a big deal. I wouldn't go to a doctor who wasn't board certified. After residency and internship (or fellowship) students study to pass the boards to get board certified."

Personal preference, I guess. I'm more concerned with actual experience and education, rather than test scores. This is what makes me leery;
"In 1995, Medical Economics magazine reported that more than 75 boards not ABMS- or AOA-affiliated had issued certificates to thousands of physicians. Although a few of these self-designated boards are run legitimately and may eventually achieve ABMS or AOA recognition, most do not require residency training in their specialty. The author stated that "some physicians use fringe board certification to attract patients, who usually don't know the difference"

Which basically is what I said above, know what it means.

With many physicians in the immediate family, I don't think I want to go where you are going.......thanks very much though.........To me there is only one board for physicians to be board certified and we really do know the difference........honest engine!

I just want one place I can ask questions about the health uses of plants, how to grow harvest and propagate, and make things with them and expect to get an answer. Right now that would cover five forums.

Ive never been to an MD whose education included anything about nutrition or herbs. It just is not on their agenda. Most medicine is aimed at alleviating symptoms, not teaching whole health to its patients.

Even last week my doctor told me he had no idea what an antioxidant was. That's a pretty basic health concept to me.

I think a forum on the use of Medicinal Plants would be very useful in providing information on what could be used or not - as are all of DG plant forums. It would also point to sources of information - just like all of the other plant forums do.

This is where you learn.

I admire Dr. Oz, a good example of a truly enlightened M.D. You're probably right about what medical schools teach (or maybe I should say what they don't teach).

My doctor yesterday just about flat out told me she thought alternative medicine was a load of mystical bs and that it did as much good as a placebo. I was talking to her about not wanting you take calcium vitamins and that it was suggested that I didn't ingest cow dairy products (that one I might accept her being skeptical about)! For instance I've read studies that say its far better to eat calcium rich food then to take vitamins, more of it gets into your system, yet she acted as if I told her I didn't want to take medicine at all. This was after I gave her a list of everything I was on. I didn't even mention my interest in herbs and Chinese medicine. I mean, I think you have to have your head in hole to not accept any of it.

I'm getting a new doctor! I was so upset by her attitude I blew off several things I was going to mention. The only things she actually dealt with that I mentioned were giving me a referral to an allergist, a chicken pox vaccine shot, and a thyroid test. Everything else I mentioned she blew off in one form or another.

I'm glad I have insurance, but I wish it would cover seeing someone who is open minded towards this type stuff.

I must be truely blessed...both doctors I see are very much into holistic healing and using herbs for healing. It took me awhile to find these people but I am so thankful to have them on my side. There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with going from Dr. to Dr. until you find the one(s) that are like minded. Too many people don't realize that just because you see a Dr. for something doesn't mean that you're stuck with them forever. Keep looking and each time you see a new Dr. have your records tranferred...it doesn't cost anything.

gessiegail wrote;"With many physicians in the immediate family, I don't think I want to go where you are going...thanks very much though...To me there is only one board for physicians to be board certified and we really do know the difference...honest engine! "

My apologies, I had no desire to ruffle feathers. I'm unsure what you meant about where I'm going, but that's okay. I wasn't implying that _you_ didn't know the difference. I have recently discussed this with my cousin, a (properly) Boarded Pediatric Anesthesiologist, and he was very upset about the public concept of what "Boarded" meant, or more, didn't mean. He says that it seems every Dr is boarded by some board or other these days, and most patients haven't a clue which ones are which.

I once found a Dr. I liked, and he had a very open mind. He was DO rather than an MD, and I wish I could find someone of similar caliber...

I've gone way off topic, I'll rein in now...

catmad: I think you are exactly right on. As I understand what this forum is supposed to be is to study the way plants can be used to enhance health.

There are some 'holistic' health doctors: Dr. Weil is one and he has a website at www.drweil.com.

But most doctors do not have this kind of training. It is not on the medical agenda. It is not part of an MDs training. So if you are going to the "doctor" to learn about the health uses of plants you might as well go to a garage mechanic. It simply is not what MDs are trained to do.
So don't get mad at the doctor - look around for what you really want.
On the other hand, I personally don't think it would be very smart to try to use plant remedies and not go to the doctors. What they do is critical and life saving. You should go at least every year for a check up.
If your doctor wont listen, then get another doctor. Don't trade medical care for plant information.

You need both.

For those of you that don't know , There are books the Drs. and pharmacies use for pills .
Anyway the one I buy every time the doctor gives me a new pill is the PDR [ Physicians desk reference ] A couple years ago they came out with -- Physicans desk reference for non prescription drugs and dietary supplements - mostly over the counter stuff but it gives side effects of common herds if sold in pill or dried form .
just copy and paste
Physicians desk reference for non prescription drugs and dietary supplements
into amazon - mine is from 2002 .

Hmmmm, I wonder what has happened to the story that vitamins, etc. would become available by prescription only?

I fall into the camp that believes we absorb nutrition better from the source than from supplements... and I also believe that in many cases the source is lacking in the nutritional values it should have, and/or used to have. The same thing probably holds true for medicinal herbs. If the soil is lacking, might not the herbs be lacking also? Your chamomile tea may not be what it could be...

I have a suggestion as for starting a medicinal forum. What if we stick with the "herbs" forum for a couple of months. Any time we start a thread that is specifically medicinal, we preface the subject with "MED" to signify that. If there are a lot of "MED" threads, those in charge will know there is enough interest to warrant a forum.

Just as a comparison, I love the "gardening by the moon" forum but there is NOT a lot of activity there. I hope there is enough to keep it there.

I do remember the attempt made by the pharmaceutical industry and their loyal friends in congress to pass laws to take the medicinal supplements and herbal products off the shelves. They did have a limited amount of success, but thanks to the fight launched against it, a way was found to defeat to a large extent the pharmaceutical industry's plan to increase their profits by eliminating their alternative competition. Anyway, the compromise, I believe, has to do with the "claims" made on packages as to medicinal effects of such products. Such products you buy cannot claim that the product cures any medical conditions. Instead it's a nutritional supplement...according to the package. We're still free to use vitamins, herbal products and such for any purpose we wish.

Thank heaven!

You are allowed to say that it reduces the APPEARANCE of the fines lines of aging.

Does appearance mean, (1) now you see it, now you don't, the lines are gone, or (2) it sort of blurrs the lines so you don't notice them so much!

You are only allowed to post meaningless descriptions of the product.

In the UK you have to talk to a pharmacist to buy all "medicine" including what we have always considered over the counter like Ibuprofen. I think this does make sense, if a little annoying. I always worry that the over the counter meds are going to interact with my prescriptions. If we did it this way they would be able to catch anything that had interactions. Not to mention there are side effects even to over the counter, but most people assume it won't do anything bad if it's sold over the counter.

I like the "MED:" thread idea!