astilbe/lilac/oriental poppy

Ok, three questions in one thread (is that a no no? if so, I am sorry and won't do it again).

I put some astilbe in this spring in a bed that is mostly shade. (I bought it from Free Trees & Plants and they did not provide the cultivar info.) However, it does get about 3 hours of direct afternoon sun (from about 1 PM to 4 PM). It doesn't seem to be doing well and I wonder if it is the wrong light (too much heat)? Will it be ok if I move it now, maybe to a north facing area?

As far as a lilac goes, how would it do in that same area (mostly shade with about 3 hours of direct afternoon sun). Don't know much about lilacs but think they're gorgeous and would love one.

Oriental poppy: I transplanted it from my MIL's yard and am unsure how much water it needs. Its leaves are yellowing and I don't know if it's transplant shock or overwatering.

TIA!

Not a no-no. LOL

Lilacs need about 8 hours of full sun. So three hours would not be enough. I would speak to a local nursery about which lilac would be good in your area. Find an expert, NOT Home Depot or Lowe's.

As for the poppies, transpalnt shock would be a good guess but a guess only. Can you get pics?

Astilbe like lots of shade so I would say they would like it better with only morning sun.

Again, can you get pics?

I agree with kwanjin but have something to add about lighting. Here in the south lilacs can't take the heat very well so they do best if planted in morning sun but afternoon shade. We can still get them to bloom even if they only get direct sunlight from dawn to noon, fewer than eight hours, as long as they have bright filtered light for the rest of the day. The point is, never underestimate the power of ambient light.

Also, sunlight is stronger from 11ish to 3ish so you have give those hours more "weight" when judging your light. That's only four hours of sunlight but it can count for about six. It's just like how I can be outside from 7am to 10am with no repercussions but if I tried to from 12 to 2, I'd be burnt to a crisp. The same thing goes for most shade plants.

Here is the astilbe . . . I am thinking now after your responses that it needs to be moved. As you can see, the sunlight is very direct and very strong even though only for 3 hours. Can/should I move it now?

And here is the poppy.

So no on the lilac in that spot, then? How about a northern lights azalea (was suggested to me by some nice folks on the landscaping forum)? What kind of sun will that take? I'm just desperate to get something nice in there . . . it looks so bare and dreary.

The Astilbe is looking a little crispy so I would advise moving it. The poppy doesn't look that bad so I'd just leave it alone and water as needed. Northern Lights is a deciduous azalea (Rhododendron) that usually prefers part shade. Can you grow Rose-of-Sharon in your zone? I've even seen Knockout Roses tolerate that amount of shade/sun. I'm not that familiar with what does well in your zone so I can't be that helpful to you on that one.

Yes, Rose-of-Sharon does great here . . . I have 3 in my back yard. The rose is a nice suggestion . . . I'll research that a bit. I just want something with a little fullness & height to provide the backbone in that area.

Can you show us the whole area?

What about putting a trellis in there and growing someting like a jasmine or honeysuckle? That would give you the height you want for the background and smell wonderfully.

I actually have a thread going on the landscaping forum with photos of the whole area, but I'll post again here . . . check out my thread over there for more background if you're interested. :) This is the entire front of the house.

And here is the specific area being debated here (to the left if you're looking at my house). FYI, I have already pulled out a lot of that decrepit (sp?) black plastic edging, cleared out more of the lava rock and leveled the soil out a bit. It will need some serious amending and stump removal before I plant anything big. :)

The lilac might have been too big for that area anyway and a deciduous Azalea would just look gawky.

How about one of the Weigelas? They are deciduous but they have pretty flowers, you can get almost any size you want/need and they come in purple leaf and white or yellow variegated varieties so when they're not in bloom they still look great. http://www.monrovia.com/learn/plant_catalog/search.php?search_term=weigela

The summer blooming Spiraeas are low and fairly tidy. Even though they are deciduous their winter look isn't hideous. http://www.monrovia.com/learn/plant_catalog/search.php?search_term=spiraea&search_term_add=&search_flower_color%5B%5D=7

If you'd like yellow blooms instead of pink you could try Potentilla http://www.monrovia.com/learn/plant_catalog/search.php?search_term=potentilla&preview_image=off&page=1&x=11&y=10

I used Monrovia's site to show you pictures because if you see something you like you can call them or search their site for your nearest dealer. Their customer service is top-notch. I bug our rep George twice a day and he still keeps answering his phone :)

I agree about the lilac being too big for that area. May I suggest a variegated Euonymus? Emerald and Gold is a nice one. It's the one on the right.

Bridal Wreath is a type of spirea, right? I actually want to put one of those on the other corner of the house. I love them. My mom has a huge gorgeous one in her front yard. And I was also considering a euonymus, but the burning bush variety. Didn't know there were variegated ones. Very pretty. The weigelas are pretty too. Lots of great ideas! Would the euonymus get enough sun there (3 to 4 hours in the afternoon)? I know the burning bush needs a lot of sun to get that bright red color in the fall, but maybe other varieties don't need quite as much?

Oh, and maybe I could put an azalea in front of a euonymus? Would that look silly?

The Euonymus would be okay with the sun. And, no, it wouldn't look silly. If you like, do it. A pink or red would look very nice.

I would say your Astilbe needs more water, when young, they like there roots kept quite moist, after a good soaking, could you add a mulch around the plants to help retain the moisture at the roots, not onto the plant, but so it covers the root area, the Lilac wont do too good in the shade you talked about, they like a bit more earlier light than you have, the rose of Sharron will grow faster than your other plant and will either be hidden from view or cause too much shade, a good starting point for you would be to go along to your library or book store to look for a book on plants, borders, all the plants needs and soil/light needed for the type of plants you like, these are expensive so the library is good as you can borrow them till you find the right book to suit your needs, they have lots of pictures and plant descriptions in them and will give you great ideas for the type of garden you hope to make, your zone has so many plants/flowers you could grow without too many problems, so read as much as you can and your confidence will soon follow. good luck. WeeNel.

If there's nothing else shading that bed (like big trees at the front of the house) other than the house itself, I think you have more light than you think you do.

So, how big did you want the taller plant in that bed to be? I was trying to suggest smaller plants to keep from blocking the window but a burning bush, even a "dwarf", would be at least 6' tall.

I have a bed that looks very similar to yours, and I'm planning on pulling out my boxwoods in favor of potentilla or some heathers. I think either of those would be great at the back of that bed.
My astilbes are in almost full shade - just morning sun - and are thriving. I'd definitely suggest moving the one you have. Good luck!

plantfreak . . . our own house and our neighbor's house shade that bed all morning (the neighbor's house is only about 6 feet to the left). Then from about 1 to 4 it does get direct afternoon sun, and then the trees in our parkway (big old maples & elms) kick in and it's again in shade until dark. As far as how tall the taller plant should be. . . I was thinking of putting it out toward the corner of the house so as not to block too much of the window. (I am planning on extending the size of that bed indefinitely.) And then putting something smaller in front and to the right a little. Just to start! I also need to take into account that if I put in a taller shrub it will create shade and I'll probably end up with an area that gets no sun at all. I am going to move the astilbe this afternoon around the corner to the north side of the house. They will get very little direct sun there, and I've been meaning to do something with that area too. We'll see how they do! bethanski, others have suggested potentilla as well. I have started a category in my journal with ideas for this bed and will add potentilla to it. Thanks so much for all the advice & suggestions, everyone!

One good way to test your sunlight is with annuals. They're cheap and if they die, so what. Pick something that you know needs full, hot sun like petunias, lantana or portulaca. If they do OK but don't really flower then you'll probably need to use part shade plants there. But if they surprise you and thrive then you know you can get away with a full sun shrub. The other good thing about this method is that you usually get an answer fairly quickly. Full sun annuals will go downhill fast if they don't get enough light. Another thing you can try are plants that like bright light but not intense sun like zonal geraniums. If a plant like this flowers well but burns from the direct sunlight you might need to avoid shrubs that tend to burn in afternoon sun like french Hydrangeas.

I used to have that exact situation. Peonies did very well, which surprised me, as did a grape vine. Also, my new astilbe took a long time to root in. If it's western afternoon sun, it can be trickier than other light.

My goal for this year is to get a flowering tree in (away from the house) and make the area full shade. That way it's unambiguous. I'm finding that those 3 to 4 hours of direct western sunlight are indeed tricky to work with!

Careful about that burning bush. They grow like wildfire, they don't trim very pretty and the bright red in the fall only lasts a short time. I'm thinking about tearing mine out.

Wow. this thread is old. I forgot about this one. Whatever happened? DI you get your tree in, Jcoakley?

I forgot about this thread too. :) Haven't actually logged on DG in a while! No, I didn't get a tree in, but I did put in an oakleaf hydrangea. I can't believe what that little spot used to look like! Here's what it looks like now. I've tried several different things since I asked all those questions 3 years ago. I moved the astilbe, but they didn't survive. I got more and planted them in another spot altogether. I also moved the bergenia around to the north side of the house . . . they're doing fine. I got that snow-on-the-mountain ground cover from my MIL and it's threatening to take over this year, I think because DH finally removed that sorry-looking yew you can see in the picture above. I mean, I wanted it gone, but I do think the shade from it was keeping the snow-on-the-mountain in check. So I've got geranium (Brookside), potenilla, pulsatilla, foxglove, black-eyed susan, heuchera, a little iris that I can't remember the name of (and is going to bloom shortly, I think), some aster, and the oakleaf hydrangea in the back. There's also a little campanula down in there that I rescued from frost-heave . . . it's tiny this spring but alive. The bed extends all the way toward the south across the front of the house . . . I'll post pictures of that another time (maybe when there's more color).

Here's another shot from a little bit around to the north.

Oh, I still haven't gotten my lilac, but I think I know where one might go (in the back yard, which gets a lot of sun, both morning & afternoon). And the poppy didn't make it either. ;( But I have plenty of room in the back to try that again too, maybe from seed this time? I've read that poppies don't like to be moved too much.