Help with starting a landscape...

Hi all,

I'm new to Dave's Garden and wanted a little help with coming up with ideas for landscaping my new yard. The house is brand new and the builder included a few trees and shrubs with the house. From what I can tell, the builder provided seven trees: 4 Red Maples, 2 Sweetgums and a White Pine (I think). Also included: a few Azaleas, Arborvitae, Privets, Boxwoods and Junipers as shrubs along the front of the house.

I've included a map of the yard with the grading. The builder provided this plan with the house and I've drafted a 1:1 drawing in MicroStation (yeah, I'm a map geek). All of the positions of the trees are approximate except one - I've added dashed circles for the approximated tree positions and a solid circle for the tree I actually measured.

As you can see, we have a few landscaping challenges. The front yard is a very steep grade. Very difficult and dangerous to mow. I would like to mulch this area... perhaps connecting the trees and planting flowering shrubs. Either that or a rock garden (?). I was thinking the drainage ditch that separates the yard from the street (the house is on a corner) could be transformed into a dry stream bed. I'd like to place a specimen tree, perhaps a Cherry Plum or something similar in the flatter part of the front yard.

The backyard seems to be prone to heavy runoff, so perhaps a drained retaining wall is in order (?). The back/side yard is very flat, which is good. Eventually I'd like to have a deck and a patio: the deck coming off the kitchen and the patio coming off the basement walk out (which happens to be level with the back yard).

There is little privacy in the back/side yard, the back of the house faces the side yard of our one neighbor (as of yet). I would like to place a privacy hedge along the south and east sides of the yard because I would like to treat the backyard as a relaxation area. I'd love to use holly, but from what I've seen, it would be far too expensive to 'build' a hedge entirely out of holly.

The house colors are: a dark brownish red brick with khaki siding, cream window and door trim with bronze brown shutters and a red door.

I like the idea of having a color theme: white blooming flowers and shrubs, dark red/purple leaves, varigated leaves and spectacular autumn color. I've also toyed with the idea of a moon garden and I'd love to attract birds and butterflies. My husband would like to have a bat box, but I'm not sure if we have the appropriate location for one.

I plan on planting a few more shade trees in the back yard and need ideas! I also have no idea on how to deal with the front planting bed between the house and the sidewalk (we have some shrubs, including three red blooming azaleas). It would be a nice spot for a sitting area or water feature, but I don' t know for sure.

Most importantly, I am located in the Shenandoah Valley part of West Virginia... I believe it is located in the 6b hardiness zone. The soil is clay, an orangeish brown color with a lot of shale near the surface. It can be very windy in the winter.

Thank you very much for your input! :)

This message was edited May 28, 2008 12:46 PM

This message was edited May 28, 2008 1:19 PM

Congrats on the new house and welcome to Dave's!

As a homeowner who inherited 2 sweetgums with my place might I ask, do you like them? I didn't know what they were when we moved in but being someone who likes to be barefoot in the yard---ARGH---sweetgums are a nightmare with those pokey balls they drop all year :( Mine are quite mature though so stay they do. I just go around and pick up their presents lol.

You mentioned wanting the holly for your privacy hedge----you may want to post on your local craigslist.org to ask where are the cheapest/best nurseries in town, you'd be surprised how prices vary, especially from what box stores are selling. :) Or if you are strong and willing you might post asking if anyone has some holly bushes to give away free for the digging. Lots of folks give away plants that way on craigs also.

Best of luck!

Tir -
Sweetgum (smile) When I moved to NC from Brooklyn, my neighbor said.... 'Ya'lllllllllll got you some sweetgums' 'If I was you -- I'd get rid of them --yesterday!' That seems to be the prevailing opinion here. The trees are messy --but -- the fall color is also very beautiful. So regarding your big sweet --sweetgum trees, when given lemons....make lemonade!! - you have some great autumn color!

7th - can you post a photo of the house? There are lots of folks here to help you. Several appear to recycle their replies for similar questions (on how to get started) and can post a detailed answer without too much effort --- and all advice is great. I do better with a more specific question and so so I will leave your general 'how to get started' questions for the others. We have several landscapers members too and I know that they will help you. (Which amazes me ...work all day in a field (no pun intended) and then having energy to do some more of the same type work via answering questions in Davesgarden... and for free!! Now THAT'S passion! Of course in my defense.... how much can you discuss phlegm-y coughs and whistles and wheezes... Welcome to DavesGarden. You will learn a great deal here and your imagination will be stimulated a million times over.

The sweetgums we have haven't even dropped their first monkeyballs yet (at least, not in our yard). I see them developing on the top branches. I can't say I would have asked for sweetgum had I been given a choice, because I too like to walk around barefoot. At least I think they are sweetgum - a friend of mine who fancies himself as a botanist as a hobby said that is what it was... Here are pictures from my blog when I was more tentative about what the trees were. http://7th-direction.blogspot.com/2008/05/dogwoods.html

The closest nursery is Potomac Farms Nursery. My parents absolutely fell in LOVE with the place when I took them there! My impression was they seem to charge a little more for annuals than some, but they have good deals on other things (like hanging baskets). And they have a great selection and seem to have a knowledgeable staff.

I know hollies are a hardy tree/bush, and even my parents have several holly trees growing in their yard (remnants from when the entire neighborhood was a forest - their neighborhood was built around/inside groves of trees instead of chopping them all down like more modern neighborhoods). But would stand alone hollies make good screen plants? I guess if they are properly pruned, I guess one could shape several into a hedge in time.

Thanks for the idea about craigslist... I'll start looking if I get a go-ahead from the husband...

LOL 7th---reminds me of when we were giving away fill dirt on Craigslist---lady with heavy accent told me to give her hubby the directions as he'd be better understanding them than her---and when I did I then asked him, "Now you have a truck? And a shovel? Right?" because you'd be amazed how people come to pick up an item and then come unprepared.

He said, "Actually I'm not sure what we are even picking up!" His WIFE hadn't told him! You are a sweet wife indeed to get the hubby's go-ahead. I'm the same way!

Here are some pics:

http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/misfitsboard/sepulchre90/?action=view¤t=House_05.jpg
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/misfitsboard/sepulchre90/?action=view¤t=House_03.jpg
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/misfitsboard/sepulchre90/?action=view¤t=House_04.jpg
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/misfitsboard/sepulchre90/?action=view¤t=House_02.jpg

Not the best for planning a garden, but it is all I've got right now. These pics were taken in November, soon after we settled.

This message was edited May 28, 2008 2:28 PM

Tir_Na_Nog: I have to, if I don't I'll never hear the end of it! What's really annoying is that he wants to have a say in anything house related, however, whatever I say, he disagrees with and nothing gets done!! Arrgh! Sort of why we've been in the house 7 months and haven't even gotten curtains up!!!

If you want ideas for hills, I've got a very hilly yard and have pics in my blog of the landscaping that I had done on it. The front yard I left the hills as is and planted them, and then in the back yard I had them terraced, so you can see both options. (to get to my blog, click on my username and you'll see a link there) My plant choices won't do much for you since I probably only have about 2 things that could grow in WV, but hopefully it can still give you some ideas.

7TH
The house we lived in prior to this one was almost your exact facade. I think we had four windows to the right of the front door and the arc design you have on top of your large window high above your front door was part of that large window (instead of wood it was glass) but it is almost the same. As you walked through that front door, that large window was behind you and shining into a two story foyer. I remember it well because the sun coming through that window hit the heating/air condition control unit and it made the air condtion run all the time!! We had to move it. To the left as you walked in was french doors leading to the 'dining' room but we made it a study and put a glass transome over the double french doors. Anyway....fond memories. .. I can tell you for sure that the house looks great with a floodlight on the front door at Christmastime! (smile). I like your detailing in the stone over the windows - we didn't have that. Our property was flat tho, I can see yours has rolling hills. It was a challenge to landscape. We had to break up the landscape so that it was several distinct 'rooms' --could not get one large sweep of landscape. A few things we did: What we did .. put up a railing of white (painted) wood around the front steps to make a small porch. It was a traditional look. Posts on the ground and the railing coming up and encircling the stoop. The area to the left of the door with the small shrubs... there was a walkway there running in front of those windows that led to the steps, because on the other side of that window where your house corner is was a garage ...so basically we walked in front of those shrubs to get to the house. Across from that window there (and what would be to the right side of that 'walkway') we planted a japanese maple with a great deal of mulched area around it for low plants. Just beyond the maple (closer to the road where you have the grass) was a large willow oak that shaded the maple enough so that it wouldn't burn. You may have too much sun for that. I pulled out the planting bed along the other side (builder had it straight under what is your three windows) and made it an irregular bed --narrower closer to the steps and then widening out in a curve as you got farther away (like toward your truck) .. it worked out well. In the front of the bed I left space for low annuals ---so I could do something new each year or repeat an old success -- and towards the back I had some strong bones /permanent shrubs. In that wider area (the corner of your house closest to the truck) I had a nice hemlock. Tall and pointed - to anchor it all. Hope that helps give you ideas.

That's really strange, missingrosie...

http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/misfitsboard/sepulchre90/?action=view¤t=House_08.jpg

http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/misfitsboard/sepulchre90/?action=view¤t=House_09.jpg

We turned the living room into a study and also have a 2 story foyer. Though since the house faces northwest, we don't have the same problem with sunlight and the thermostat. However I've noticed the master bedroom is about 10 degrees warmer or cooler than what the thermostat says!!! It faces southwest and gets all the summer sun, and is over the unheated garage which keeps it cold in winter. :( I can't wait for the Red Maple and Sweetgum get tall enough to shade the house!!!

Ha Ha
That is our house. The window in the foyer had an arched top also glass. If you walked into the house and went left through those double glass doors you walked into our study (dining room intended by the builder) (we added a long glass window above the doors to bring in more light from the foyer) and if you go through that study you ended up in a large kitchen and greatroom that ran the length of the back of the house. If you walked into the house and didn't go through the glass doors you could go straight through the long foyer and into that same great room kitchen area. Or, you could go upstairs (the foyer and stair/stair rail looked just like your photo.) Walk in the foyer and go to the right --you were in a formal living room and again that emptied to the back of the house --greatroom and kitchen. That house took a long time to clean. It wore me out!! The kids were home and once they went off we built a smaller home here in the country. Anyway, to get back to your landscaping --- I found that with that house it was better to break up the landscaping into vignettes that could be viewed from each window since there were at least two in each room. We had little landscaping money after buying that house and no energy to do it (smile) and so it took a while but it was do-able. What looks different from yours was that behind where your truck is parked there was a neighbor's property ....they separated our line from theirs with a front streetside to backyard natural area --maybe 15 feet wide ---mulched well and with conifers and holly --- -- so it gave a sense of enclosure along that one side. The back of the house was bordered by woods --again another enclosure (until hurricane Fran came by) and that left the front of the house open and also the side along where the garage was. Just break it up your spaces and exercise some control (its hard) by working on one thing a a time. Don't impulse purchase no matter how much you like something unless it has a home in a spot that it will thrive and is in keeping with your plan. I'd also plan for that important 'enclosure' if you have privacy needs in the back etc.

That's amusing... was it a Ryan Homes house? Of course, it could be many developers considering we have typical Colonial floor plan.

I also was thinking of vignettes, or at least breaking up the yard into several rooms. Mind you, this is my first house and I'm completely new to this process. All I know about gardening and landscaping is from what I've watched on TV - Victory Garden, Gardening by the Yard (big fan of Paul James), Landscapers Challenge... stuff like that.

I'm considering a birdbath in in the planting bed in front of the windows to the left of the front door. I'd have to bring the mulched area out to accommodate this. The reason I want the birdbath there is so my cats can watch the birds splashing around. If I put the birdbath in the planting bed in front of the garage, they may not be able to see. I regret not getting windows on the East Side of the house... when I had made decisions on the architectural aspects of the house, I was under the impression the front of the house was facing West. I did not want side windows so the neighbors could look in. Ha ha. Now the neighbor can see the entire back side of the house and we get no morning sun in the "living area" of the house. That's okay... windows can be installed later whenever we have extra money... if we ever have extra money.

I'm thinking the back yard can be the living area, with the patio and the deck serving as separate rooms. We will be limited on the size of the deck because of cost (of course), and because we have to allow a 10 foot ease way between the edge of the yard and any structure. We will have more room to place a patio/entertainment area, however I have concerns about runoff down the backyard hill. Thus my idea for a retaining wall. I like the idea of having one with a few steps. I envision the deck having steps to the upper ground level, a small landing (on ground) and then the steps going down onto the patio. The patio would be somewhat small, enough to accommodate a grill, and maybe a small seating area. I would want to extend the living area out into the yard, which would be grass, not paved. I'd like to have a chiminea (with perhaps a small circle of brick) and a more formal patio set towards the back/side corner of the yard facing the chiminea. This is where my holly screen would be important.... it would serve as a room wall to anchor the furniture. I'd also plant another shade tree in the vicinity (probably slightly to the southwest of the seating area to provide any necessary shade).

The side yard can be another "room"... this is where I would like to set up a moon garden. It gets full sun until 2pm or so, then the house shades the yard from afternoon sun. It is also fairly flat. I want to install another mulched planting bed along the entire length of the house, incorporating the pine tree and the Propane Tank Fill Cap. So it doesn't take up too much room, I'm thinking the mulch footprint would have to be a crescent shape, perhaps allowing for a table and chairs or, even better a hammock or something like that in the middle. I'm thinking of having flowering bushes and the like in this area... also bringing the moon garden theme over to the other side... having the hollies or another screen bush as the background for smaller flowering bushes and plants. I think this area is an ideal area for a garden because it gets lots of morning sun, is flat, and it is protected from the often strong prevailing winds.

The only other thing that I'd like to consider for this side of the house is a bat box. This side of the house faces northeast, and I think a bat box might do okay here. It gets about 6-7 hours of morning sunlight a day, that is about the minimum a bat box would need. There is a nearby marsh and stream a block to the East, so they would have access to water and lots of mosquitoes. There is a grove of trees a block to the North, so they would have protection from predators. I like the idea, because I like the idea of providing a home for these necessary and often unappreciated creatures.

By the way, I know I posted this thread for "ideas"... I'm actually full of them (as you can see), but since I'm a beginner, I don't always know how to execute my ideas or whether my ideas would work or are realistic. I appreciate any suggestions anyone has, because there are still things that I have no idea what to do with (like the side of the house with the garage). I really like missingrosies' idea of a natural area and I appreciate ecrane3's photos of hillside gardening. Hopefully, I can use this forum as a sounding board for my ideas... after all, half of the work is coming up with idea!!! :)

Thanks again!

This message was edited May 29, 2008 5:26 PM

It seems you have your ideas pretty well flushed out. My advice would be this : Invest in a landscape plan. Ask around, visit the local landscape nurseries --etc. etc. and find a landscaper whose work you like and somebody you feel comfortable talking to. Be upfront and tell him/her that you don't intend for them to execute the plan but would like to hire them to come up with a plan - drawings etc. etc. That way you will have some assurances about those hills and drainage issues etc. Plus you would get some good ideas for appropriate plants and have a cohesive design. Be sure to tell this person that you intend to do it piece by piece(room by room) so you can get ideas where to start (perhaps least expensive to most expensive) --because you may have to start with the front and little to no hardscape and then work your way (and budget) to the front. It is WORTH your investment to hire a professional for this important first step. They will think of things you have not and have all that training and experience that you don't. It won't be that expensive.

Also be very realistic about how much money you want to invest in this landscape - you don't want to build your house value beyond what is in the neighborhood. Statistics show you won't be in that first house for all of your days....... so maybe you can talk with this person and come up with a plan that makes your landscape pleasing and fun and useful but doesn't quite build it out to 'whoo whoo' when you likely won't stay there long.

I'll look into talking to a landscaper to help plan, thanks.

As another note, does anyone know about "mixed use" gardens? As much as I like flower gardens, I wouldn't mind having some functional plants too... like peppers or tomatos or herbs interplanted with flowers... or is this a no-no?