Starting a new garden

London, Canada

I am trying to start my first garden this year. I live in a bad neighbourhood, so I am trying to make a bit of an oasis in my tiny backyard. I will attach a photo of my beginning plants. I plan on putting flowering plants, veggies and a few fruits in there. I would like to keep everything in pots so that I can move them around, and if I need to move for any reason, I can just take them with me. Will this be a bad idea for any fruits or veggies? Also the people who lived in this apartment before me had a dog and it used only the backyard as a toilet all the time. Should I be adding anything to help the soil to at least be able to grow grass? The whole ground is just dirt right now. I would love to get some maitenance free ground cover...and input would be greatly apprecited! I dont know if I am being vague...let me know if you need more information. Thanks!

Thumbnail by shiva_kalima
Dublin, CA(Zone 9a)

You can definitely grow your things in pots (and if your garden soil is in bad shape, then that might be a better plan at least for the time being!) For your flowers and veggies I imagine all of them will do fine in pots, for the fruits it depends a little more, if you're growing fruit trees then they may not be happy in a container forever, but you can at least start them off that way.

As far as maintenance free groundcover, there really is no such thing, some things take more effort than others though. Is that your dog in the picture? If so I wouldn't recommend trying to grow grass in such a tiny space, I have a much smaller dog than that and when all they have is a tiny yard, between using it as a bathroom and running around on it, it's very difficult to keep grass alive. Or anything else for that matter--most groundcover plants aren't going to stand up to a ton of regular foot traffic (or being used as a dog bathroom!). So if it's going to be a high traffic area, I'd consider putting down river rocks, decomposed granite, or wood chips or some other non-living groundcover so that things look a little neater and don't get all muddy.

London, Canada

Thanks for the advice. I looked up where I am..zone 6a. Yes that is my dog, but the only reason she was out there that day was because everyone was out there. Normally we only walk her. She is rarely back there. It was the previous tenant that destroyed the lawn. Here is a list of things I have planted so far...I have no idea where I am going to put them all when they mature. :)


Morning Glories - Flying saucer (purple)
Morning Glories - Ipomoea Imperials mix (light pink to dark purple)
Lavender
1 Peace Lily
1 Hibiscus
1 Cymbidium Orchids (lily and orchid are inside in a windowsill)
yellow pearshaped tomatoes
big beef hybrid tomatoes
red cored danver carrots
Green Utah celery
small onions
Watermelon

I'm sure I have forgotten at least one or two...will add as I remember

Dublin, CA(Zone 9a)

It's hard to judge how big your area is, but if it's pretty small and you're going to be out there a fair amount it still might be hard to keep grass alive even if the dog doesn't go out there very much (particularly if the area is a bit on the shady side) so I'd still probably go for a non-living groundcover. Speaking of being a bit on the shady side, I'm assuming this is a fairly narrow area between the house and the fence? If so, you may not get a ton of sun there and most of the plants you mention are going to need full sun. So if you only get a few hours of sun there, you might want to consider some plants that like shade a little better. Maybe I'm guessing wrong though and you get more sun than I'm imagining.

London, Canada

The area in the photo above is half of my actual backyard. it is approx 15ft by 30ft. I will attach a couple more photos...I just took them at 4pm this aft. It should give a half decent idea of the kind of sun I should be getting back there in the summer. My back yard faces north, so the direct sun isnt until late afternoon right now.

Thumbnail by shiva_kalima
London, Canada

Its kind of hard to give a good idea of the space in 2d

Thumbnail by shiva_kalima
London, Canada

The bbq is in the way of these other photos...like I said, it is a very small yard.

Thumbnail by shiva_kalima
London, Canada

Also is there a problem with my garden if the soil is only about 1.5ft deep? I was digging out there earlier today and there is a conctrete slab under the soil...am I better off to just keep everything in pots?

Thumbnail by shiva_kalima
London, Canada

I want to thank everyone for their replies. Today is my first time posting on daves garden and I am very impressed! The people here seem truely to love to garden and share their wealth of knowledge. I am SO happy my friend referred me here! Thanks again...:)

Lisa

Dublin, CA(Zone 9a)

I'm glad you're enjoying things so far! This really is a great place to get help, I have learned SO much about gardening in the few years I've been hanging out here.

As far as your garden...if there's a concrete slab under there then you probably are best off putting things in pots. You could probably do some shallow rooted annuals too, but with the concrete underneath I'd worry about drainage. The other thing you could do if you really want to grow things in the ground (and this would solve the problem of the previous owner's dog bathroom too) would be to make some raised beds, maybe raise them up another foot or so above where things are now, this could make it more viable to grow things, although trees or anything with really deep roots would still be a problem because of the concrete. But raised beds aren't nearly as portable as pots, so if you want to keep your options open then pots are probably best at least for starters.

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

shiva_kalima......ecrane got you started on the right foot for sure I think.....Just wanted to add that I used to live in an apartment with a small space for anything to grow and I chose containers to get me started....I lived on the bottom floor and had access to a small area behind us.....We tried to make the best of what I had.....Here is a picture of my second year of gardening in containers, I had gotten my feet wet so to speak with growing in containers and asked the management if I could build several raised beds for flowers and the manager said fine with her so I did.....You can see what I did and how it kinda follows what ecrane was suggesting....This was my way of tackling small spaces, you will find yours too....

Paul from Alabama




This message was edited May 11, 2008 9:16 AM

Thumbnail by PaulFromAL
London, Canada

wow thats a really great spot you have there...I just hope that I am as good as everyone here seems to be with all of their adventures. I have bought a random plant here and there in the past and usually end out killing them. I probably overwater I think. What is the best way to know if your plants need water? I was told once to just touch the soil and if it is dry on the surface to water them. This makes me worry about rootrot. Also doesn't it depend on what kind of plant it is? I suppose I have a lot of homework to do yet if I am going to get this right. I am addicted and my hunny is getting jealous if you can believe it. I am a techie, so I spend a lot of time online as it is, but now that I want to grow my garden the best way possible I am doing a lot of research on gardening as well as my regular tech support stuff. Ahh well....he will be happy in july when everything is mature and beutiful....I hope

Dublin, CA(Zone 9a)

Hey, we've all killed our share of plants! The trick is to learn something from every one that you kill, and then try not to do that same thing again! I've been gardening seriously for a few years now and for the most part know what I'm doing and I still kill a decent number. The only difference now is I usually know what I did wrong! LOL I think the trick is to come to terms with the fact that some are not going to make it--there'll be some plants that you really want to grow but either your climate is just not right for them, or the conditions in your yard aren't right, or something along those lines. And I can speak from experience that when you have a lot of containers in a small space, it's really easy for one to get missed when you're watering and end up dead, or one ends up getting more water than the others and dies from that. Some people have a really hard time accepting plant death, but try not to take it personally or think you've failed as a gardener if a plant dies here and there, I guarantee you even the best gardeners in the world still kill plants from time to time!

Whoever told you to just touch the surface of the soil was wrong as you suspected...the top of the soil will dry out fairly quickly, but just underneath the surface can still be very wet, so if you give the plant more water at that point you'll end up killing it. The best thing to do is stick your finger down in the soil a couple inches and see how it feels down where the plant's roots are. If it's drying out down there too, then give it some water but if it still feels nice and damp then let it go. With containers, you can also pick them up and see how heavy they are and after a few times of finger poking to feel for wetness you'll be able to tell by the weight of the container whether it needs water too. And yes, it does depend on what type of plant you have...you can use the Plant Files here to look up your plants and see what their watering requirements are (if you haven't found PF yet, go to the "Guides & Information" tab and you'll find a link to it). You should still use the finger trick to judge, but for plants that like to be consistently moist, you'll want to water while that area a few inches down is still damp, but for plants that you're supposed to let dry out between waterings you'll want to wait until that area is feeling pretty dry. Sometimes Plant Files will be missing watering info but you can sometimes find it on plant tags or else you can always post here and ask.

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

shiva_kalima.......If you think for one minute you've killed more plants than me, then you've been grossly misinformed.....:)

Best way to know if you plants need water....shiva_kalima, it takes a very sophisticated tool, you may have it, you may not...its called 'your finger'......:).....like you just said you just stick your finger down in the soil near the plant base, if its dry to the touch below the mulch (if you mulched.....you did mulch didn't you?.....don't let me have to warn you about the necessity of mulching again....:)....so if its dry to the touch, hey you water.....in general water only when needed and water deeply then....less frequently and but deeper is better than shallow and everyday.......but we're talking containers here, so you just make sure you got holes for drainage and when you water you water till you see the water coming out the bottom...I'm just giving you my two cents worth here but root rot comes from watering too much if you ain't got good drainage, not from watering too much so to speak....I know others may disagree and say I don't know of what I speak, its OK, my wife does tells me that all the time too......:)..... And one more thing, yes some plants need to be watered more but think of it like this, some plants like a moister enviroment so to speak to perform well and some of them like it on drier side.....You'll find out through reading or on here from folks who know the plants you want to grow which ones are which....

OK, I lied, just one more thing.....When in your role as a tech support person you run into a guy named Paul from Alabama, please be patient with me, as I know about as much about these computers as I know about what was already in the universe right before the Big Bang......:)

Paul from Alabama




This message was edited May 11, 2008 10:11 AM

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

I have one more thing to add....Whatever ecrane said......:)

Paul from Alabama

Hillsborough, NC(Zone 7b)

Shiva-K
Are you sure you have concrete under there?? Do the neighbors have concrete patios? Is your yard higher than theirs? Sometimes what the neighbors have is a good indication of what is along the street --oftentimes the construction was done by the same builder and styles for management of the land was similar. It is hard for me to imagine that there was a concrete patio and then someone came in and put in 1.5 feet of dirt on top. That sure is a lot of dirt. Maybe you hit a large stone under there and assume it is a slab of concrete? Did you dig in several spots? You mention dreams of an oasis.. So I am thinking you want a peaceful/tranquil garden to enjoy? This involves sights and sounds. Have you thought about getting a japanese maple and growing it in a pot (adapts nicely to container) and other shrubs/trees with some height to disguise the fencing? Some shade is needed and you have it. Then you can grow in a raised bed a few veggies and flowers in the sunniest parts. A few pots for color, a small water feature for sound and eye candy (can be very inexpensive and portable too!) and then all you need is a chair and a book! Since you seem to want a groundcover - I hate to discourage - so you can seed a small patch with grass or another low growing groundcover since your eye will want to rest on some sort of expanse, and the rest of the ground you can do as Ecrane says with pea gravel or mulch with stepping stones well placed through it. All can be done on a budget. All can be moved (not the gravel (smile) and you will have a great place for the family and the pooch to relax in.

Paul: love what you have done. It looks so sunny and cheerful!

London, Canada

wow you guys are fast, and really appreciated!

ecrane3 - I promise not to take it personally if I kill a few plants here or there...I might be sorely dissapointed if they all die on me though :) Thanks for your input...Ill go through the plant files and learn what is best for what I have out there...I think I will have to make a list, otherwise I will forget. The only thing I seem to remember information about anymore is computer stuff :)

PaulFromAL - "shiva_kalima...If you think for one minute you've killed more plants than me, then you've been grossly misinformed...:)"...I think this more more because you have been a gardener for so long :) Ill probably catch up to you in no time flat. :) Uhmmm...no I havent mulched yet because I am just getting everything together in pots right now. I have a very limted budget and can only do so many things at once. To get some ground cover I am thinking about going hiking with one of my experienced gardener friends and grabbing some wild plants from public places. We are allowed to do that here in small amounts, so I cant see why I shouldnt take advantage :) "water deeply and less frequently" - ok...I think I can do that. I made sure that I have very good drainage on all of my pots before I planted in them, so I guess I shouldnt have to worry about rootrot?

as for my role in tech support...you dont have to worry about ever asking me for help with your computer. I am very good at teaching and at patience :)

missingrosie - I am sure I have concrete under the soil out there. I dug in 6 places on both sides. ick! I dont know how or why someone did that.
I havent thought about getting a japenese maple out there but it sounds nice. I love the ideas you suggest but dont know how to do it without spending a fortune...

Thanks again for all your suggestions!

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

OK, this it.....the last thing....Hey, I mean it this time......Looking at you name and location I just wanted to tell you that I didn't know they moved London to Canada....Nobody tells me anything anymore........:)


Paul from Alabama

Hillsborough, NC(Zone 7b)

shiva
you can make your own stepping stones - get a mold and pour away! You can even add a stain. Look a bit on DG and find the many ways people created small fountains on a budget! Not as expensive as you would think - really. You can even sink a dishpan or an old aluminum bucket into the ground --it just needs to have no holes. I just bought 2000 pounds of recycled glass (smooth edges ...gravel... sparkly and multicolored) from the recycle unit of the landfill --twenty bucks! The japanese maple - about 5 feet tall in the pot... 60 bucks and it is a nice one too. Spray some nursery plastic pots with a 'stone effect' spray paint....or cover with cement and you got pots. You can do it on a tight budget because you have a small space. Good Luck!
PS - be sure your buddy is with you..don't carry home any poison ivy!

Dublin, CA(Zone 9a)

Paul--I think they moved London to Canada about the same time they moved Dublin to California! LOL

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

ecrane.....I was going go ask you about that.......:)

Paul from Alabama

London, Canada

lol...yeah i hear that all the time about my location when I am working :) most of my customers are in the states.

missingrosie - those are some wonderful suggestions, thank you very much! People are starting to make fun of me because I am so enthusiastic about getting my garden started...as I keep saying though, it could be much worse than this! I am having fun and I think its great! That was a wonderful suggestion about going to the landfill and buying recycled glass, I'll look into it and see where our closest depo is with that service available.

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

shiva_kalima......If the worst thing people can say about you is that you're an enthusiastic gardener......You may be eligible for sainthood......Let me check into it.......:)

Paul from Alabama

Kalamazoo, MI

Hi Shiva_Kalima,

I've been following this thread since you posted it. We live in a kind of depressing neighborhood too. When I moved here there was a lawn in the back yard but as the last 12 years have gone by, it has shrunk. Flower beds have been created and it is now the "oasis" that you wrote about. Good luck!

London, Canada

Well I dont think I qualify for saint status, but thanks for saying so :)

Kristi - thank you for your encouragement as well! I dont think I will be here for 12yrs as we are just renting...but it is a wonderful thought!

Houston, TX

Hi there:

I don't know if this will help at all, but I can offer a VERY low cost option for pots: Rubber bouncy balls.

You can get some really huge rubber bouncy balls from your toy supplier. They often come in some startlingly pretty colours, and often look like they are marbelized (well, except for being rubber, that is).

Cut the top 1/4 - 1/3 off of the ball and fill with soil. The soil will have the ball hold it's shape, so you have most of a nice round thing, that has pretty colours on it. Plant what you want to in the ball, and the plant will have a little extra room for the roots because of the spherical shape. Poke a few small holes in the bottom for drainage and viola! You now have a planter that is nice enough to line a walkway with, that has lots of room for the plant, that is stable (because the bottom will flatten a bit when you put it on the ground) and that was very inexpensive. Best of all, at the end of the growing season, you can empty the soil into that raised bed that was mentioned above, and store the planter somehwere, flat.

I hope that this helps.

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

Hastur......You are inspired.......Are you the one who invented the Hula Hoop too?.......:)

Paul from Alabama

Houston, TX

*blush* Awww...

I just like using weird and unusual containers. The rubber ball trick was something that I learned a REALLY long time ago. Back in Missouri, I used it on a house I was renting because I wanted to plant some stuff, but they wouldn't let me till the soil to make a fairly large garden. I started using this and had one of the prettier yards in the neighborhood. I even stuck a tree branch in some of them and planted sugar snap peas. That was gorgeous in the late spring when they were blooming - not to mention very tasty in the fall.

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

Are you a relative or do you or have you ever worked for Martha Stewart?......Perhaps a guard in the prison she was in?......:)

First thing I'm going to tell my wife when she gets home is your idea with the rubber balls....She's gonna flip......

Paul from Alabama

Houston, TX

Nah, nothing so interesting. Just a weirdo that likes unusual ways to do things.

Definitely let me know how your wife likes the idea.

Piedmont, AL(Zone 7b)

My wife and I are both afflicted with the same disease as you....nothing you can do for weirdness, you'll just have to live with it......:)

Paul from Alabama

London, Canada

These are all wonderful ideas that I am deffinately going to try out! Thanks so much for posting them!

London, Canada

If you would like to see the great swamp I found the other day, check out this post:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/849351/

I will be uploading some more pics of some new plants I got on sale...its May 24 weekend!! :) woohoo!!

London, Canada

SO I have been having a bit of a hard time lately and my friend Anne brings me this little plant to cheer me up...What a nice friend I have!

Thumbnail by shiva_kalima

Post a Reply to this Thread

Please or sign up to post.
BACK TO TOP