What happened to my delphinium???

I planted what the tag said was a small Chinese Delphinium "Blue Mirror" in the summer of 2006, no blooms, but it grew well. Last spring it bloomed a beautiful cobalt blue, but then no repeat blooms. In late summer I had to move the plant to another garden spot in my yard, and it seemed to settle in and grew well. Well, it is just blooming now and it is a gorgeous bright PURPLE! Other than transplanting, I have done nothing else to it. Unfortunately I do not have a photo from last year, Spring 2007, but here is the photo right now.
Is this really a "Blue Mirror" - or is there maybe something in the soil there - it's where my beautiful dark periwinkle blue hydrangea grows also.

That doesn't look like Delphinium, the leaves in particular.

Also, I think I'm in a colder part of Mass but my delphiniums just broke the surface last week! I expect they'll be blooming in about 2 months.

Your delphinium changed into something else!!!!!!! I'm not sure what that is but it's definitely not a delphinium (which I have a heck of a time getting to come back) or a hydrangea.

Definitely not a Delphinium. Looks like some kind of Arabis.

Thank you all... this may solve a mystery, after all. I did have a Delphinium Blue Mirror that bloomed early last year. But a couple of years ago, I planted an Arabis and then lost it - it never bloomed the last two years. So it seems that I dug up what I thought was the Delphinium, but I must have planted the Delphinium over the Arabis. It seems it turns out the Arabis won out.

Don't feel bad about losing your Delph's. They never overwinter for me, so I just plant them as annuals, but a fellow DGer in upstate NY says hers come back in the spring...so go figure ! LOL

If Delphiniums don't come back and you're in the right zone for them it's usually because you let them "over bloom".

Delphiniums are considered "high maintenance". They're not very smart in that a single plant will put out so many blooms they literally die from exhaustion. 1st year Delphiniums you must only let them have a single flower spike (else risk they will not come back), 2nd year only let them have up to 3 spikes, and 3rd year+ let them have 5. I also chop the flowers off before they go to seed, as making seed is extremely energy intense.

That's what it is for most Delphiniums, not sure about the chinese ones. The 20 or so delphiniums I've made sure they only have the number of flower spikes recommended and remove them after blooming I've had a 100% survival rate going on 3 years now.

Interesting Marshmellow. I'm sure that's what's happened with mine. I am not good when it comes to purposely not letting plants flower. I know why it's important, I'm just so greedy for those blooms! I've also heard that delphs are very heavy feeders ... do you fertilize yours much?

Yes they are. I start with a hole about 2' wide and 2' deep for each. I fill the hole with a mixture of 1/3rd compost and 2/3rds of the best dirt I can find. I then top dress their hole with 2" of compost and mix in organic fertilizer. That gives them a good start and, I don't have to worry about burning them since I use organic and honestly it's almost impossible to overfeed delphiniums. In spring I top dress them with 2" of an equal mixture of rabbit feed, compost, and dehydrated manure, later I use organic fertilizer.

To me, there is nothing like delphiniums. I also top dress with a layer of coffee grounds I get from work (snails favorite food is delphiniums, coffee grounds is poisonous to snails). I also have to stake each one, make sure they don't have too many flower stalks, and cut off flowers after bloom... they also like lots of water. They're not for everyone, but once it's in your blood... people stop and ask what they are... no one grows them around here (probably because of their maintenance), or didn't know you have to keep their bloom count under control so they didn't come back.

I'd get some New Zealand Millenium types (5' tall!). I included a picture of them. I started with Pacific Giants & the New Zealand Milleniums and, was very disappointed with the PG's. Had I not got some Milleniums I'd probably not be into Delphiniums now. The PG's been too inbred or something, there's just something wrong with them they're depressing! The stems that hold the leaves and flower stalks are about the size of spaghetti, the plant grows 6' tall! Even staking them they didn't have enough strength, I had to support the entire flower and leaves from base to top else the flower spike would break "in the middle". The tiny stems holding the leaves when it rained they'd flop to the ground or split as they're just as weak hence why I had to cage the whole thing a circular cage from top to bottom to offset their extreme weak stems and such. If you ever want to see how genetically limited breeding over time results in weak stock, depressed looking flowers, that look like they have no motivation to live look no further than the pacific giant delphiniums.

The New Zealand Milleniums on the other hand are totally different. Their stalks and stems are almost pencil sized, 4x+ stronger than the Pacific Giants. I only need to have a single stake to hold the base of the flower to prevent flopping, and their leaves are well supported, I don't have to have a cage that surrounds the entire plant top to bottom like the PG's. They like to grow, they have vigor, they just scream look at me I'm happy! The Pacific Giants are depressing. Also, the NZ's just loves to flower, they flower so much they completely cover the stem to the point you can't see it holding each individual flower when in full bloom the PG's you can. Anyway, definetely go for the New Zealand Millenium Delphs over the Pacific Giants, give them a try! The cheapest place to find them is http://www.gracefulgardens.com/delphin.htm and look at the difference between the Milleniums and Pacific Giants. Exactly what I'm talking about, look how skinny, weak, and thin & depressed the Pacific Giants are compared to the Milleniums just love life and just loaded with blooms and vigor. Skip the Pacific Giants... the picture I included is not my own, it's from the creator of the New Zealand Millenium mine look just like that.

This message was edited Apr 30, 2008 10:26 AM

Pardon me I just fainted after looking at that GORGEOUS picture. After reading your description of how you plant them (which is more than I have done in the past ... usually I just dig a hole larger than the plant, throw in a little organic fertilzer and maybe some root stimulator and be done with it) I was thinking maybe it's not worth it. Having seen that picture, I changed my mind. Three years ago I bought an entire tray of delphs from Graceful Gardens ... a bunch of different kinds. Between the bunnies and my lack of proper care one out of the entire tray came back the first year and none the second. Thanks for all the info. I think you've inspired me to give it another shot. Not this year (the plant budget is pretty much shot)... but next.

Great thread. Thank you for all the detailed information.

Hmm, very interesting, since I do none of the above, and have had excellent results with Pacific Giants - the tallest in this photo, was close to eight feet!

They were grown from seed, never staked, fertilised once in spring and again in fall with a balanced fertiliser used on the entire garden, and I let them go to seed as much as they like. Also, they are grown in a very heavy clay soil.

I think when it comes to delphiniums, less is more - it's the too much fertiliser that results in fast growth and skinny stems. And I've never cut off a single flower stalk. These plants were dug up from our last place and moved over, and plunked in, with no special soil amendment.

If you do grow them from seed, give them 2/3 weeks cold treatment in the fridge first.

Oh no...this is really getting confusing, now ! LOL

I agree with the chill period for the seeds...the grower I get mine from told me the same thing once, and he chills his seeds. I've never grown them from seeds, just from 6 packs.

I followed the advice from some article (can't remember where I read it) re: feeding them superphosphate at planting time...and I got tall (6' +) plants, with huge flowers on very thin stems...so I assume they OD'd on superphosphate. I tend to agree that huge flower stalks on spindley plants zaps the heck out of the plants, so next time I'm going to use a more complete/balanced fertilizer.

I think planting them in the fall (in mild winter climates, at least) is key to getting them to do well and produce nice flowers. The best crop I ever had was planted in the fall and I didn't use any fancy fertilizer. I should have stuck to that ! When I've planted them in the spring, they bloom way too soon and aren't anywhere near as tall, either. Such was the case this year.

Most everything I've ever read about them said they need soil very rich in humus/organic matter. I have heavy clay, so I did what the article(s) said. (Not disputing anyone's experience...or methods)

Maybe there's degrees of heaviness for clay soils...mine gets like concrete if it's not ammended.

The theory about less/more flower stalks and cutting off or not, is very interesting...I'll have to experiment with it !

Great thread, and very thought provoking !

It's always very intriguing to read about different peoples ways of growing things.

I hope more people post about this and share experiences.

So what's the key to getting them to come back the following spring? Maybe our summers here are too hot and humid.

I think it may be more a result of our climate being quite similar to Great Britain, (where delphiniums thrive,) than anything I've done, since as you can tell from my post, I tend to garden with the philosophy of benign neglect. I find it fascinating how everyone has such different experiences with the same plant. Maybe they don't like real heat? Even in mid-summer, we don't get what you'd call "hot weather." Hot for us, mildly warm for you, eh?

I did forget to mention that I've tried getting them as bedding plants, and they never did much - my own thinking on this is again, too much fertiliser, to get them to bloom in the small pots, as anything blooming apparently sells much more quickly.

It sounds as though your soil is very similar to mine - I top-dress with amendments, but gave up digging large planting holes and filling them with great soil for my plants, because I could never see any appreciable difference in doing so - and found that plants have a tendency to then refuse to grow out into the surrounding clay from the nice stuff in the immediate area.

I agree with Marshmellow (I love that name) about the New Zealand ones - they have spectacular colours. Really impressive. Here's one of theirs grown from seed last year - luscious!

Beautiful, 2Zeus!

2Zeus...you didn't say where you are...I am also in 7b, but we get some very hot and humid weather here. Wondering if delphs would be good candidates for wintersowing? I have found that the lupines my DH craves only do well if seeded outside during the winter. Otherwise, the heat makes crispy critters of them.

I'm on Vancouver Island, Canada. I've never tried wintersowing them, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

You must live in an area without wind or rain 2zeus :) Those would be flat on the ground once a 10 mph breeze or heavy rain came, they have tiny hollow stems I'm just amazed they're still standing!!! They do look beautiful... you really did a great job. My Pacific Giants look like that, but they never failed to have their hollow stems snap at a hint of a breeze or a thunderstorm as they're in a place on occasion the wind blows, or hard thunderstorm comes. Yours at least is protected in the corner between two fences, good job. My fertilizer is compost + dehydrated manure + alphala that's probably like 1-1-1 and must be decomposed by bacteria before the nutrients are available to the plants (which takes 4 weeks before it will start to feed the delphs)... I don't think it's possible to overfertilze with that, even 2".

To show the difference between the two, I went out this afternoon and took some shots of my Pacific Giants and Milleniums (the ones planted at the same time) as they are today. Both were planted in the same soil, same time, same amendments, same procedures, same water, same sunlight, same care for the past 2 years. They broke through at the same time this year, one of the Pacific Giant didn't come back (Arrggg!!!!)

As you can see from the picture, (Pacifig Giants on Left, Milleniums on right) they are both the same height, but the Milleniums have 4x or more vigor, or 4x bigger and healtheir than the Pacific Giants. It's tough to imagine we're comparing 2 Milleniums to 2 Pacific Giants the Milleniums look like a bush! I also took a picture of their stems with a nickel leaning against them so you can see the size difference. The Milleniums stems are wide as a Nickel, the PG's stems are 1/2 the size or less. This will hold up through their lives, even when the flowers occur. The Milleniums have full flowers you can't see the stem behind, the PG's grow about 1' taller but the flowers are less attractive and more spaced apart. When people come to my yard, they go right to the Milleniums. I will keep a photo journal between the two, this is probably the last year I'll have PG's, I just can't believe I lost a Delph (Pacific Giant) I treat them all so well. The major problem with PG's is they look inferior being right in with the Milleniums... it's not something I recommend people mix & match. If you have PG's, stick with them... or I recommend simply starting off with Milleniums and sticking with them.

Your Pacific Giants and garden looks absolutely gorgeous, I will keep photo journals of mine so people can see the difference.

This message was edited May 1, 2008 3:34 PM

Very helpful information, everyone. I love all the photos!

This has been wonderful information to ponder and experiment with. And I love to try new and different methods and tricks. Besides the Chinese Delph which apparently is gone, I also planted two good-sized plants "Blue Bird" from the nursery last July, and tried starting some Pacific Giants from seed last summer, from which I managed to get four good seedlings that were planted late August. Both of the Blue Birds have returned with a vengance this spring, now about 24 inches tall and with a thick stalk about 3/4 inch. Only one PG seedling has recently returned, but it seems to be doing just fine. I only used all-purpose fertilizer, and don't ever tend to pamper any of my perennials. Since I work full time, manage a household, and deal with grandkids, I like my gardening to be a fun stress-free experience. I just figure, if they don't come back, I'll try again next year.

But I do really appreciate the comments and help. I agree - this thread is really great!

I live in what's considered rainforest - we get tons of rain, and lots of wind. I haven't had that problem with the stems, mine were huge at the base, easily 2" across - more like small trees than perennial plants.

The fences have only been there for about a year, prior to that, they had no wind protection whatsoever. They've held up without breaking through windstorms that broke branches off more rigid plants, but that's probably a result of having to deal with pretty much constant wind in their early spring growth - it seems to cause them to grow thicker stems with better wind resistance.

That's a pretty huge size difference, in stems, eh? The New Milleniums look almost twice the size! I don't notice any real difference in size between the two strains here, where the New Milleniums are so superior for me, is in the colouring - most of the ones I grew last year were two tone, with incredible intense shades, and the foliage was a vivid green. I found myself looking at my garden and wondering where I could squeeze more of them in, in order to try some of their other varieties.

I'd love to see yours when they bloom.

2zeus, How interesting that your area is considered rainforest. You must be able to grow an amazing group of plants.
I think I'll add delphs to my list to wintersow next year. Now that you have piqued my curiosity, I'll need to check it out, lol! I love the look of them and your pictures and descriptions are terribly tempting:-)
Bev

Graceful Gardens sends wonderful delphiniums.
http://www.gracefulgardens.com/delphin.htm

I grow delphiniums as an annual.

I usually get them in or near full bloom. They will rebloom 3-4 times over the winter months. I still have a few that are putting up spikes, but, the season is winding down as the weather gets warm.

Lovely pics as always dale! I love your color combinations:-) Do you collect seeds or purchase new delphs each year?

I have, in the past, only bought new plants. Delphiniums seeds sprout at 50*, we rarely see that temp. This year, however, I am ordering seeds and going to have a local company sprout them for me. I order seed from New Zealand and 5 species from a US seed company.

Beautiful, dale - I love that white one.

Amaryllis outdoors - that is stunningly beautiful!

If you have a good source, hook us up dale, lol! I must order some seeds for ws next fall...Like I didn't go completely overboard this year...Nahhhh!

Fisk, I am in the plant growing business, just starting as a matter of fact, I order wholesale. Most of the seed I buy isn't available, except wholesale. I am getting my 'wish list' together for July. I have over 150 different colors of flowers. Example, 9 colors of Delphiniums, 15 colors of Impatiens (they are winter flowers here), 23 different pansy and viola colors, etc, etc.

Here is some of the summer stuff, coleus>

Dang it, dale, lol!! I suppose I'll just have to deal and keep ohhing and ahhing over your fabulous stuff:-)) Now if I could only get to Tampa...hummmm.

Wow, what a diverse bunch of gardeners we all are here on Dave's, I also grow Delphiniums here in UK and some years have some trouble, mostly slugs and snails though, but I too find them to be hungry feeders and top dress them each your with home made compost and some added pelleted chicken manure, they do need a good deal of water also but that I can assure you comes by the weather usually, to me they are the most majestic of all my garden flowers and my own experiences have been to control the flower stems on each plant, dead head for a second flush of flowers but they are never as big, to make sure I dont loose the plants over winter I take root cuttings from the plants end of each season, the way I do it is to gently scrape away some of the soil, find a nice fleshy tender growing side shoot that has a part of the parent plant/root attached and make a clean cut to remove it from the parent plant, replace the soil around the parent and pot the cutting up into fresh new compost and water it well, place these cuttings in a slightly shadier area till autumn begins and then take them indoors to the greenhouse over the winter, they take really well and can be planted out the following spring, this is also a great way of collecting the colours of Del's you particularly enjoy, but also give some to friends who find the germination difficult as a lot of folks do with these plants. OH and I also have to stake mine, I make wire rings when the foliage reaches about 12 inches and attach these rings to a cane, the foliage then hides this as it grows over and into the rings, green wire is easier to hide, but one of my friends ties hers with soft twine around 3 canes placed around each plant, the way the English cottage gardeners do it is by tying each flower head to a stake so they cant be blown over or broken, good luck all you Delphinium lovers, they are wonderful plants, even as cut flowers, you just fill the stems up with water and they last for ages inside.
WeeNel.

Hello to those interested in delphiniums. I'd like to encourage you to go to http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/886367/ and post a reply saying you would like a forum on delphiniums.

TIA
LAS