Yes, doccat, she picked out some sunflowers. Yellow is her favorite color. I just don't know where I'll plant them, yet. She also has some pumpkin seeds recieved in a class project. I don't know when to plant them.
dmj1218, your right. Mulch I agree is a life saver. My shrubs and trees have benefited greatly from mulch. What kind of mulch do you use, leaves and hay? I use hardwood mulch for the trees and shrubs.
This message was edited Jan 28, 2008 4:23 PM
Anybody use no till gardening?
Dean--look back up to post#440915
=)
Debbie
Debbie,
Thanks, I had to look back aways.
Dean, look at the pumpkin seed pkg, most pumpkins take around 110 days to come to maturity, so you've got to get them in soon. And they sprawl big time.
How do you all keep the leaves and neswpaper from blowing around in the wind? Do you just wet it down?
I take a 5 gallon bucket of water along and dip the newspaper in it before laying it down. You have to lay something down on the newspaper or it will dry out and scatter. My leaves or straw have never blown away.......but I do not get much wind in my area. DM
DigMontana,
Thanks for the reply, today we've been having monsterous winds that will continue into the night. It already tore up some of my newspaper so I put some rocks down and watered everything.
My leaves are all covered with a foot or more of snow, so don't have to worry about them blowing away. Actually we have been lucky wind hasn't been too bad this winter. However for the elevation here we have been about the coldest place in Wash. State, don't really care for for that kind of record.
Donna
Thanks Dean for sending those monstrous winds down our way--lol
Water real good with the sprinkler--you would be surprised, the plants also get very dehydrated by these winds too. They like supplemental winter water too.
Debbie
Glad you got some of the winds, Debbie. I wet down the garden yesterday.
Drying winds is another good reason for mulch. It helps the soil retain moisture. I use pinestraw here as well as all the leaves I can physically scrounge.
Glendalekid ~ I suspect the reason the clay hardpan is getting closer to the surface would be from erosion. If tilled and mulched properly, it shouldn't have that effect. A lot of good topsoil is relocated by wind or water.
podster,
My neighbor doesn't use any mulch at all. Probably doesn't even know what it is. So, the tilling without using mulch to enrich/break up the soil may very well be the problem, as you suggest. I've watched him using the plow with his tractor, and he only plows about 6-8" deep. I had originally thought he was plowing under the green plants and the weeds at the end of the growing season, but now that I think about it I'm not so sure. After he's through with that there is no sign of any green, you know, sort of sticking up or anything. The ground is bare and brown, and I don't see how he could have completely covered them all up.
The area he is using for a garden is a very sandy area and the clay hardpan is apparently coming up under that. Since it's on a slight slope, there may be a problem with erosion, too. If there is I haven't seen any of it happening, washing downhill or anything.
Karen
Might be a gradual erosion but then as I have learned, some clay soils in the south are expandable and shift and change. Anything is possible there.
I grew up in farming country and topsoil erosion was a major problem from overworked and unmulched fields. Contamination of groundwater is the problem now from the overuse of fertilizers.
I had once read of a garden plot being planted with hairy vetch and rather than tilled in, it was mowed prior to seeding which effectively killed it. The garden plants (not seeds) were planted right in it. It was left to provide the mulch as well as enhance the soil. Has anyone here tried that?
Hairy vetch is a great cover crop if you are looking to break up clay soil. It throws a long heavy root system and is a nitrogen fixer. Mowing it is much easier than trying to till it for that reason. And that is correct, once mowed (and cut it close) you can direct plant your seedlings right in the ground. The vetch provides a little nitrogen boost as well as helping keeping down weed seeds. By the time the vetch is "done" your seedlings should be big enough to start shading out the soil, again helping to keep down the weeds.
podster,
Yes, it could be a very slow erosion and that's why I haven't noticed it in the two years I've been here. He has been planting that plot the same way for about 20 years.
doccat5,
Will the hairy vetch crowd out other weeds? Will it crowd out grass? I have a sandy patch I want to put watermelons and squash in. It is infested with weeds, especially dog fennel. I also have two kinds of really nasty grass I would like to get rid of. One that I haven't been able to ID grows underground as well as sending out seeds. The other one is Johnson Grass.
Karen
You can probably get most of it with the vetch if you heavily overseed the area. Do you have a tiller? If not, I'll lay down several layers of wet shredded newspaper to help start the smothering process. It doesn't take very long for wet shredded paper to start to break down. If you have a tiller, I'd shallow till the area, broadcast the vetch seed and then shallow re-till the area. Water throughly and that should give the vetch a good start.
The gentleman with the plow is old school, they just weren't as aware of the issues involved in the methods they were using. I doubt you can talk him into doing it differently, but you might be able to "show" him what happens if you do it differently. I've made several "converts" that way. They couldn't believe their eyes, since they all know I "practice and preach" organic gardening. We can out produce them every time, and normally our produce is bigger and healthier looking....:) Show and tell, works with grown ups too. LOL
Yuck, Johnson grass is bad stuff, don't cut your self pulling it out.
doccat5,
Yep, he sure is. I wouldn't even consider discussing it with him, as he knows that what he is doing is causing the problem. He told me he did. However, he just LOVES to drive that tractor around and around. Yes, I was not impressed with his production either. He had over 300 corn stalks and he bragged to me about getting 200 ears from them. That didn't sound particularly special to me.
I got angry with him last spring when he decided to dam up a natural creek running through his property in order to water his garden. Well, he had to put in 200 ft of pipe and a pump to get the water uphill, and then he put rainbirds up 15 ft high. After he paid for the pump, the rainbirds, and the piping -- what did that cost him? Rainbirds are the worst for irrigation. I've read that 70% of the water goes into the air. As high up as he had his, I would think only about 10% of the water hit the ground. Even though we are out in the country, we are on city water, and it is very cheap. He could have used hoses (downhill) hooked to his house water for about $20 a month. He took the rainbirds down about halfway through the summer. I don't know whether the creek dried up or whether the property owner on the other end of the creek complained about it and got it stopped. He and I don't talk much.
No, I don't have a tiller. But I'll look into the vetch idea. I looked up hairy vetch. It's really very pretty. This grass is quite a long ways from the house, so if I didn't get it mowed but it did get rid of the Johnson Grass I would still be better off than now.
Dean,
Believe me, I don't have the time or the energy to pull out all the Johnson Grass -- it gets four feet high!
Karen
You can read any of Ruth Stouts books on no till permanent mulch. I have done that for years and the only place I had any problem with it was Washington State. The mutant slugs up there loved the permanent mulch. I never will forget my first look at those gi-normous slugs....
Yes, on the west side they do have horrible slugs. But thankfully here in the NC area we just have to contend the active small ones, and here at my place it is so dry normally there aren't too many.
Donna
Karen, I am very late reading this thread and just saw your mention of Johnson Grass which is grown here in Texas as a hay crop. When we purchased our home it is smack dab in the middle of what had been a hay field. Discovered the only way to get rid of it was to mow it flat on top of the ground, seed bermuda and fertilize. One grass killed the other. The johnson grass preferred very poor soil. Don't know the size of your area so this may not be possible for you. Just a thought.
LouC
Oh you are lucky. I will never forget seeing the enormous things. My little beer trap was like a shot glass for them...
This is where we started on our lasagna garden. There was a 40 year mulberry tree in the middle of the monkey grass. It was on it's last legs so we had it cut down in Nov. 2007. The monkey grass has been there almost as long because nothing else would grow around the root system.
LouC
This is the yard crew building a raised bed...it turned out to be 8'x11'x20".
We covered the entire ground which also had a lot of St. Augustine with several layers of newspaper, wet it down, added leaves and all yard clippings from our yard and the neighbors. This is a much larger volume than we could imagine.
Continued to add leaves and clippings all winter.
Fortunately, we are only 10 or so miles from LETCO. They have only organic soil and mulch. We puchased 6 cu yrd of specialty soil, which is soil, native mulch, green sand and lava sand and added to the top. Don't have a picture as of yet but it is beautiful and smells so sweet. It is all in the process of "cooking" and settling right now. Most likely will be adding more of everything as time goes on. The plan is to have a veggie garden. I know, I know. Didn't make walkways but the tree stump spreads in every direction as does the monkey grass. Have top dressed every single bed with the same soil and that required two more cu yards. Probably could go to the green market and the florist everyday for what we have invested in infrastructure, but then, where would be the joy?
LouC
LouC,
Thanks, for showing the pictures keep them coming.
LouC,
Thanks for the advice on the Johnson Grass. Nice to know it's good for something. This patch is on either side of the driveway right where the drainage pipe is for the rainwater to flow under the driveway and down to the pond on the west. It must also like lots of water. No grass there is what I would like, but I don't think that is an option. I'll try the Bermuda.
Karen
Karen, why don't you turn those into rain gardens using native plants? It will make your pond a lot "healthier" and the rg's are spectacular.
Karen the more the JG is mowed very low the higher the root system comes to the top making it somewhat easier to pull/dig the roots out. I used to dream of digging JG roots I did it so much.
Good luck.
LouC,
Thank you. We'll have to work on it before it gets hot this summer. Sure not looking forward to it. I even looked on the internet about garden dragons, but I decided that was too drastic. LOL.
doccat5,
What's a rain garden? This is the ditch that leads to the pond. It only has water when it rains, and the pond is not ours. I would like to get some native stuff in there though. We planted three small birches down there last spring and a weeping cherry. I would love to have something that blooms around the trees instead of that stupid grass.
The pond is on the next-door neighbor's property. It is fast becoming a stagnant mudhole because the guy shot the bottom out of the pond summer before last. So, between the drought and the pond leaking, it is draining fast.
Karen
Karen, please read my article on rain gardens there are a couple of sites referenced for your to check. Ultimately, it really doesn't matter if it's not your pond, it's leaking into the regional watershed. So anything you can do help improve the quality of the water is a bonus. Plus your yard will look terrific!
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/634/
doccat5,
Thanks for the info. I'll check out the references and such. It sound like a very good idea.
Karen
They are lovely and make good sense to use. They are really catching fire in our area with the local merchants, since we've have a couple of monster mall areas that are not exactly greatly favored by any of us. It does have a very positive effect on the water going into the watershed.
Lasagna bed settling in just fine. 1/2" rain yesterday morning helped to water everything really deep. Have planted Texas A&M 1015y onions, Ruby purple onions, mesculen mix, cabbage, cilantro, butter lettuce and have nasturtium all around the inside edge so it will trail over the wall to cover it with edible flowers.
Just the beginning.
LouC
bump! Can anyone recommend a book?
No book. Just the information here on DG. Will have to take pictures next week. Mine is doing great! Have discovered another perk to the raised bed....rabbits don't climb walls. hahaha
Christi
LouC,
Post a new pic of that veggie bed, please! thanks.
Linda
The book Lasagne Gardening is good. Most of the information is covered here if you do a search for it.
katiebear