Anybody here use no till gardening? I'm very intrested in the subject and would like to learn more.
Anybody use no till gardening?
I use both.......LOL and composting and aerobic teas and lasanga gardening.......etc..............son, you are too much! You might google the subject, it's quite fascinating and has a lot of good points. I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but I use it in areas that I can't use the tiller.....so there ya go. Need to be flexible and adaptable. :)
doccat,
Yes, I was thinking of doing some of both. I'll do some more research.
Indeedy, use what works best for you. There is no one way that's best for everyone. I try to be open to all these methods I just won't and don't use pesticides or insecticides.
doccat, do you use anything at all? I use Murphy's Oil Soap - 1 oz in a qt sprayer - seems to drive most insects away and helps the plants, too.
I use Safer's Insecticidal soap, garlic and water mixes, not heard of the Murphy's. Please tell me how that works? :)
Most grocery stores carry it, so it is easy to get. It is designed for cleaning wood furniture, walls, floors, etc. The oil base is non-toxic to most animals, and it adds some beneficial nutrients to the soil, but washes off the plant leaves with the rain or broadcast watering. I have never seen a aphid in my garden. Wish I could say the same about the fire ants. but building better soil seems to keep them nesting on the perimeter under the cedar boards, instead of building mounds in the garden itself.
The flying night critters are attracted by the garden lights, but when they fall into the water, the Murphy's reduces the surface tension, so they cannot float.
Started with 2 Malibu lights, but now have 6. Used the biggest planter saucers I could buy, made 1/4 cedar bridges that attach and keep the lights over the water. Lights are on a timer - dusk to dawn.
Weekly, I change the buggy-water for fresh, and add the grunge to the compost.
I have Murphy's on hand......LOL interesting, I'll try a test sample on one of my roses......aphids have been the pits lately......thanks for the info.
DeanW I do the strawbale gardening which is as faraway from no tilling as you can get. There is a forum here just for that. Read up on it might be something you would want to try. Deanna
Thanks, deanna!
Here's a couple of links...
http://www.eartheasy.com/article_no-till_gardening.htm
http://www.dacres.org/No-Till%20Garden.htm
I agree with what doc wrote. I have been pretty much no-till for several years, and organic ever since I moved to this place. Make as much mulch as I have material for and it is never enough. I do have a little electric Mantis, but haven't used it for a couple of years.
For my corn I cut the stalks down as soon as corn is harvested and the fellow who works for me takes them home for his horses. I cut them off as close to the ground surface as is possible. After one small area is cleared of stalks , I spread a couple of inches of my shredded plant material over and let go till spring. If there is enough space I plant Buckwheat, as it is fast growing .
Donna
Donna,
Tell me more, I'm all ears! I want to learn more abot this method.. I borrowed a tiller from my brother today and broke it.
Dean, son,what am I gonna do with you? How did you manage to break the tiller?
I don't know the tines stopped revolving, the motor still works!
Is it belt driven?
I think it may be the belt.
Most front tine tillers are belt driven. It probably either slipped or broke. Not a big deal. :) Wish we live closer, we could bring the Horses and fix you right up. :)
Another reason no till is good!
LOL, Doccat now I'm thinking of renting one.
Well, it has it's pros and it has it's cons. I like to be flexible and use what's best for my situation. BTW, there is a BIG difference between front and rear tine tillers. One thing I like about the Troy is I can do a majority of what the no till guys are talking about in a couple of hours. And I'm not buying the compact the soil, c--p. Not with one of these, I know what my ground use to look like and what it looks like now. Would have taken a lot of extra time and work to get it to this point. But, if you don't have access to a tiller or can't afford one, use one (some plp can't physically handle one), the lasanga method seems to be the way to go. Ruth Stout's straw bale gardening is another no till method. Love her ideas, but if you live in a subdivision with an HOA, that method could be a problem, whereas the lasanga is less noticable. :)
This message was edited Jan 19, 2008 8:00 PM
I have three small, 2- 4 x 4 ft, and 1- 4 x 8 ft that this year or next will have to placed in a different area as the trees I planted are now creating too much shade. I am trying to figure out where I can put them in more sun, and may have to use a corner of my small 50 x 50 back lawn area. I don't want to have to walk 200 feet to pick lettuce for a salad. With my very arthirtic left foot that is a long way when it is acting up. I love the shade and am not sorry I planted the trees, but most veggies don't like that much shade.
I still have my BCS 10 hp. batt. start, garden tractor, but is only used to power the shredder now. It was used when i first moved here almost 13 years ago to work in compost, and other amendments into the soil here which had never been cultivated or anything grown except native sage, and grasses. But now after several years of cultivation I don't feel it is necessary to till. I add shreds and compost almost constantly except in snow as now, when there is more than a foot of snow on the ground.
Donna
doccat and Donna,
Yes, I belive the no-till method should start somewhere. By that I mean the soil it seems to me needs to be prepared in advance. I've done no till gardening in the past w/ a patch of okra and had very productive results. It was on an area of land that had been tilled previosly, that had rocks and debris removed. I simply used landscaping fabric laid it on the ground and cut holes where I wanted it to grow.
what would one do if they have clay soil ?
would that no till work ?
i have a tiller
we just bought acreage that is a old farmers feild last yr soy beans and yr before corn. still see corn lol :)
I am thinking of tilling an area, adding Llama poop, then heavy mulching with leaves . We have woods on the other side of our property. So i will never have to buy mulch again muwahahaha i hope :) doccat thinking potatos here :)
I m thinking when we dig out our basement to use some of that dirt for the garden . ? it is dirt from the woods
would this plan work ?
i m very intersted in the no till but then again with our clay i wonder if it would work.
thanks
sue
My neighbor has a small rear tine tiller. It seemed to have one speed which was slow and it made the soil like powder....not my style there. I have a front end tiller that I like very well to lightly mix in things.
I have areas of amended raised beds, flat more conventional space, and limited tllage.....so I ought to be able to compare results before long. It is all good soil so it is a matter of good, better, and best.
Taynor, that will work well on the clay. I too had VA red clay, not much left anymore, but difficult to work with.
this kind of method and this thread really give me hope! let the land (compost) do the work for you. i'm all ears and tuning in!
IME, no-till works great if you are doing small amounts, especially in tight spaces where a tiller would just be a hassle. I have used no-till plenty of times, and I'm not even as sophisticated as lasagne gardening. I just covered up sod with cardboard and covered that with a thick layer of mulch and left it over the winter. In the spring I dig a hole and put the transplant in. Thing is that this can take a lot of mulch. If you are doing large patches, tilling is a lot less expensive. And where I live, there are a lot of rocks that I would like to remove, at least the big ones. With no-till, you can try to plant things and keep running into big rocks right below the surface.
I have a rear-tine tiller. It has adjustable depth of tilling but also adjustable speeds of the rotors. I like it lots for breaking up sod. It does take time and multiple passes. It has never turned my clay into powder, but it digs up rocks great. It is also good for digging in amendments. I usually till shallowly, like 3". That is really enough most of the time.
Both methods have their good points. In a perfect world, I would do no-till for everything.
Yes, "in a perfect world, I would do no-till for everything." Plus, I feel tired today after tilling yesterday. It has a way of wearing you out. No-till could be labor intensive aswell.
This message was edited Jan 21, 2008 8:42 AM
You're right--tilling can be very tiring. I get impatient and try to till too deep too fast. Then it's like trying to push a bull backwards by its horns.
Now I'm ready to till again, but the rain is here.
taynors, Oh no! I want to start my carrots and some other stuff.
paracelsus, I agree, I've used the lasanga method with smaller areas that are hard to get to with the tiller. But for the big beds, we dump the compost and leaves on the ground and fire up the Troybilt. Takes about 30 minutes, depending on the area were going to plant. You're right the toughest part is being patient and start slow and easy, tilling shallowly until you get the first few inches turned. I've yet to have a compaction problem and been using a Troy for over 25 years, we're on our 2nd one. Expensive, but worth every penny. One of these and organic gardening go hand in hand. It just makes it so much easier to set up and maintain a garden. I have no problem using the no till methods either, but I would like it done timely and I have a fair idea of how long it takes to get that "working". Not sure I buy all the hoopla about the compaction caused by roto tilling, especially in a home garden situation. You need to use a little common sense when you're planning and rotating crops. Means keeping a journal and keeping track of what you're doing. An area I think is sadly neglected sometimes, it is important step. Down off me soap box and off to see what other trouble I can get into. :)
doccat5, I am with you about feeling suspicious of all the talk about compaction. I have not had that problem, and I have been using a tiller since the late 80s. You're right to say a person needs to use them with common sense, like don't go out there and till your clay when it's wet and don't try to turn your soil into powder.
Also, I second you about the journal. Mine is on my computer, with one for veggies and one for the flowers. In fact, I was just working on my journal for the flowers I plan to grow, getting all sorted out when to start what. Have to start things pretty soon, which just makes me feel good. I don't know what I would do with myself if I didn't garden.
This my first year keeping records on the computer. I'm working with the Journal here on Dave's. It took a little getting use to, but I really like it.
with areas that i m not using this season i think i will start on the lasagna method , then keep working around each area .
Year by year .
To start a pasture it will take me 5 yrs to get a healthy pasture for our animals. That is for all 4 seasons. But as long as we have goats i don't have to worry about weeds. :)
I'm anxious to see what happens with the lasanga beds I was experimenting with this year. I used them on the beds of my established roses and they perked right up. That ground was pretty good to begin with, but I've had to add 2 additional layers since July and I noticed the other day another one probably wouldn't hurt a bit.