MyRee, the Tea Tree oil kills fungus so there goes your fungus gnats. Garlic spray is a deterrent, you can also use pepper spray. We get our Humate spray and Kelp at the feed store, we live in the country. Humate acid helps the plant take in the nutrients. We keep changing our Recipe because we keep researching and find other things that we think will help. We mixed up a large batch yesterday and this should last a good while so we should be able to see any differences in this mixture.
kenboy
The Recipe
There was some discussion last year that asprin will also help condition the leaves to make them absorb the nutrients better, much the same as messenger does. Wonder if there was any truth to that?
Brenda, check out the links that Kell posted at the begining of this thread. I think there is some truth to it. I think it takes one asprin to eight gallons.
Hummm, I was using 1 to a gallon I will have to find that notebook.
I am so blessed to have an unlimited source of worm castings at such a low price that I actually use little fertilizer through the summer, I get wonderful growth. I use it in the late winter early spring for seedlings then to wake the plants up. Onc I have them outside freshly potted in my home made potting mix they grow so fast. I just feed once a week, then as I have said before, I mix up a batch to suit what I feel I need then. I start with the basic mox and add what I think they need. Works for me.
This picture was taken July 2 last year, these plants where all from cuttings taken April 22. Most of these plants where well over 5 feet tall by late august and many where even taller. I use Wal mart brand potting soil, worm castings and a few batches of home made fertilizer.
I;ve been spraying the original recipe that started this thread for about a week now. Using it on all my new brug cuttings and also my coleus cuttings and house plants. I have to say they all look really good and the fungus gnat population seems to be decreasing. Way to go Kenboy.
Juanita
Joanie, Ken figured out that for the Tea Tree Oil to be effective, it needs to be applied at a rate of 1/4 teaspoon per gallon, so we figured out how much to use in the concentrate based on that.
The bottle of Tea Tree Oil I got at the health food store cost $5.49 for a 2 oz bottle. I will get in touch with them this week and see about ordering a case thru them, I will also check to see if their supplier can supply larger sized bottles (?).
I would be happy to co-op Tea Tree Oil if we can get the price and quantity right.
To answer some of the other questions and comments:
The Humate Tea, Seaweed Tea (Kelp) and Garlic Spray are all bottled in one-quart bottles by Watson Ranch near Hawkins, Texas. http://www.watsonranchorganic.com They market their organic growing aids mainly to local ranchers for growing better hay and the bottles are labeled for applications to acreage, rather than the way we use it. I also noticed that on their 'Price List' page they have no prices! The Humate Tea and the Seaweed Tea were each $3.00 per quart bottle at our feed store. The Garlic Spray was $10.35 a quart.
From what I understand the Humate Tea provides Humic acid and Fulvic acid which aid the plant in taking up nutrients.
We do store the recipe in a cold place. The reason we didn't add the orange oil to the concentrate this time around is that it clumps up when cold, so now we add it to the diluted spray as needed for insect control. The diluted recipe with orange oil in it also has to be shaken periodically during the spraying process.
In the photo it looks as if you can't see the level of liquid in the bottle, but actually in person you can see the level, besides, the weight of the bottle alone lets us know how full it is. I took the original 'breather cap' off that big detergent bottle and replaced it with a flip top cap from an empty dishwasher detergent bottle, so the cap can be screwed on tight and then flipped open to allow the air in when Ken is measuring out the concentrate, and then clicked to close tight after.
When I mix the recipe I use a plastic gallon-sized pitcher. I use hot tap water and put it in first, THEN add the Epsom salt and stir it with a big stainless steel slotted spoon until the salt is thoroughly dissolved. Then I continue adding the rest of the ingredients. Ken knows to shake up the big container of the concentrate before he measures it out to the sprayer.
EDITED to take the 's' off the end of the URL - geez, I am careless! Let's see what happens with it now :~)
This message was edited Jan 22, 2008 7:28 AM
Thank you Maggi. I will send Bill to feed store for the other spray.
The web site just wanted to get me a date and then a lawyer for Bill?
I am taking good care of Adaline.
Every thing at your place is looking great and I had a wonderful time.
Joan
Great site... there's an extra "s" in the organic in the URL... Gordon...
I just got 100 lbs of alfalfa pellets to throw into the planters... and let it break down by spring... they love the rich start... and like you said even better than heavy feeding... which I also do..
love the old recipe..can't wait to try the new one.
. Gordon
Maggi, I must be dense, but I need more clarification please. On the Tea Oil, is the 1/4 teaspoon the amount needed in the diluted solution? According to the latest recipe that Ken posted, you put a total of 47.5 oz of liquid is used. Then the addition of Epsom salt should raise the the volume even more. When mixed together, how many ounces does the recipe make? If 1/4 tsp Tea Oil is needed in the dilute solution, then 3 tablespoons of Tea Oil is not enough. May need between 1 and 2 more.
One last question: How cold is cold? Refrigerator cold? One more last question LOL. Does everything stay in suspension or does the mixture need to be shaken before poring?
OK, the recipe makes 48 ounces without the Tea Tree oil added. There are 3 teaspoons (12 one-quarter teaspoons) per tablespoon, and 2 tablespoons (24 one quarter teaspoons) per ounce. So, we added 2 ounces of Tea Tree Oil to 48 ounces of the concentrate and use the concentrate at a rate of one ounce per gallon of water.
I'll get Ken to edit his post.
What we did is we had used 12 drops in one batch of the recipe, started doing the calculations, mixed up another batch using what was left in the 2 oz bottle, so yes, it should be 2 oz, or 4 Tablespoons per batch of concentrate.
Thanks dear, Nadine will tell you I was in hysterics when Ken was making me do 'higher math' after a long and tiring day! Got the laugh started and couldn't stop, had tears in my eyes. Oh my.
Do you recipe makers have kind of a ball park estimate of the cost of this fabulous recipe? Maybe an estimate of how much a Gallon it is costing? I don't have some of the ingredients yet,but will be getting them today.
Thanks, Lucille
Maggi, I will Co-op any thing you would like to buy.
Joan
Yes she was.. I was confused from the very beginning!!!...LOL...but got the hang of it later on..haha.
Gordon,
Were in Brooklyn did you find a 100 lb bag of alfalfa pellets?
Mickey
HAHAHA Mickey... you're right there... 2 ..@ 50 lbs... although I bet they are some where in Brooklyn... there are a bunch of horses and rabbits around.... Alfalfa costs the same as A Rollex watch [counterfit ]here.. No..I was up in CT picking up a violin I was having repaired.. I'd found this violin in it's ostrich case in a Manhattan townhouse I was redoing... the new owner didn't want it so it fell to me... appraisal by a violyn expert appraiser vallued it at about $800.. [ not the $30,000.00 I was hoping for ] it's about 80 years old ..a european instrument... on the way back home I passed an Agway farm store...so I doubled back for some... I usually get it in AL near mothers there on the years I remember to put it out...
It does make an amazing difference in the early health and growth..
Well.. perhaps a bee hive on the roof ..I was talking to a bee keeper here.. he loans out his hives..and gives a return share of the honey..although I might get my own hives.. as I still have my bonnet and smoker from my last venture into bee keeping .. this guy was at the farmers market...selling little1lb jars for $15..for NYC Roof Honey
I saw a news story of another person with a hive in the living room of his 5 th Avenue apartment... with a glass top...and shade...they came and went through a bit of 3/4 " copper tubeing stuck through the wall to the outside...otherwise the hive was closed..came and went to CentralPark..harvesting...
perhaps too much work.... I know...
Gordon
This message was edited Jan 23, 2008 11:06 AM
Oh gee, more math for my tired little brain! Hahahahahaha
OK, I will try to cost this out, that means a lot of division doesn't it? Oh Lordy!
We get Epsom Salt by the 50 lb bag at the feed store, I use it on the plants in the ground in the spring. How many cups are there in 50 lbs? Maybe I should check the price of a carton of it at the grocery store. Or maybe someone has recently bought a small carton? Price?
If anyone has prices handy on molasses and plain household ammonia please post them, too.
I have to go to work now, will puzzle this out later :~)
Beer - about $1 per can
Seaweed Tea - $3 per quart
Humate Tea - $3 per quart
Garlic Spray - $10.35 per quart
Tea Tree Oil - $5.50 for 2 oz (working to get price down)
Molasses - ??
Epsom Salt - ??
Ammonia - ??
Oh so sorry maggidew, I thought someone who was making it would have added the receipts up and divided it by how many gallons it made and knew what it cost already. Now I see it is a job, I just thought a ball park idea if you knew how much you spent and how many gallons you made from it.
Ugh! Excuse me , I am not too swift. Sometimes I can be so dumb,I even amaze myself☻
Ammonia at Publix cost .99 cents for 1 quart, and I had to do big calculations for the beer that I bought since the cheapest cans they had were $3.49 for a 4 pack of 16 oz cans. Geez, guess I should have paid more attention in math class!
All the little brug babies seem to be doing very well, so it's worth it!
Cathy
Well... I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the tea tree oil did not help with fungus gnats at all... I think they are worse now than before I started using it .. :(
Now some of my tiny cuttings and a few houseplants have burned leaves... (black edges like too much fertilizer) I think the fertilizer is a little strong for my particular set up. I'm going back to just liquid kelp and superthrive.
I am still gonna use it for the grown brugs though.
ZZs, have never had that trouble and have used it on all seedling from the start.I am so sorry that this happened to your plants.
Your fungus gnats are still hatching and the T.T.O. does not kill the gnats but the fungus that they feed on. I believe Ken told me that. So it may take a week or so for all the eggs to hatch.
The fertilizer I do not put on the seedlings until they are ready to start feeding.
Did you use mine or Ken's receipt? Ken has big greenhouse plants and Maggi has the small ones. We will get maggi back and see what she uses on the tiny plants. I have not tried Ken's because I did not have all the things it called for but Maggi will know about the ones she did from seed.
Joan's
12oz of beer
1cup of Epsom salts
1/2 cup ammonia
1/4 cup if molasses
1 to 3 drops of Tea Tree Oil
1 to 3 drops of Superthrive
2 cups of water
1 to 2 tablespoons of mix to a gal. of water. Spray on leaves or seeds.
Ken's
2 cups of water
1, 12 oz can of beer
1/2 cup of household ammonia
1 cup of Epsom salt
3 Tablespoons of Tea Tree oil
1/4 cup of molasses
1/2 liquid seaweed ( Kelp )
1/2 cup of garlic spray
1/2 cup of Humate Tea
This message was edited Jan 23, 2008 8:32 PM
It is my experience that fungus gnats don't hurt anything much, but their larva eat the roots of tiny seedlings as well as burrow into the freshly planted seeds and destroy them. I've never found tea tree oil to stop them either, but if you keep your tiny seedlings and seeds planted in sterilized soil and sealed in a clear plastic bag, you will not have to worry about the gnats or their larva. When plants are large enough, they grow fast enough that the larva can't eat fast enough to devour the roots. The only problem is the gnats are pesky. Yellow stick paper helps get rid of the flying gnats. I use a product from Planet Natural that is the best thing I've found. It is called Scanmask and it is beneficial nematodes. Read about it here: http://www.planetnatural.com/site/beneficial-nematodes.html One treatment in the soil and that's all it takes all winter.
Well, I went shopping in my little town yesterday. I didn't find Huumate or garlic spray.
On another thread I read that diluted Murphy's oil soap helps keep the bugs away, anyone heard of that?
I have been using the spray for at least a week now and the leaves are looking very nice. Growing and looking healthy. I am not mixing it very strong though.
Brugie you are sooo right! I lost a whole batch of seeds and I'm not blaming the recipe.. it was my fault. I got careless..
I used scanmask last year.. I totally forgot about it this year! I was doin okay till the last two weeks... Oh well, it will be fine.
Do you use the recipe Shirley?
The burned leaves were tiny cuttings, and some cuttings in the GH and some Iochroma cuttings. I don't spray my tiny seedlings..I usually don't fetilize till they are in 4" pots.
I would like to use something much milder for the tender stuff.
I used this recipe...
2 cups of water
1 bottle beer
1/2 cup ammonia
1 cup of Epsom salt
12 drops Tea Tree oil
1/4 cup of molasses
1/2 liquid Age Old Kelp
2Tbs Miracle Grow
I loved the smell of the tea tree oil in the recipe! I will still use it in the GH on the big kids.. but I think I'll stick to just the kelp & superthrive on the little kids.. it was working really good before.
Joyce, I wonder if you had your scorched seedlings in the sun or close to light when you sprayed them. That could cause a burn. I do spray mine with the recipe you printed above, basically, except with Bill's Perfect Fertilizer, no kelp, and added Vit. B tablets. I used more tea tree oil, too. As watered down as this is when mixed for using, it's hard to see why it would burn anything, but like most things, a gardener has to use what works for him/her. I would still use it for watering other plants and not let it go to waste.
I won't throw it out for sure! I will back off and see if that makes a difference... it's so hard to pinpoint problems I caused or what I did when.. I very well could have sprayed when the sun was out.. and when the houseplants were in the window sun! I could have for sure.. I don't know.. I could have sprayed the tiny cuttings more than once in my absent mindedness... I was spraying everything cause I loved the smell so much! LOL I may have spoke too soon.. :(
ZZbabies,
What color Iochroma do you have? Are they easy to root? I just fell in love wit them!
Mickey
Yes, Mickey, they are very easy to root.. I have white, blue and plum.. The blue is more purple than blue. They don't bloom the first year, and they are really floppy.. those are the only things I don't like about them..
These are my first brug cuttings ever and I am using Ken's recipe on them. So far so good I think. Can't wait to get them outside although that is months away for me.
Juanita
Theraglady,
How do you get cheep worm castings?
Mickey
Arizona
9
Hello everyone over there. I just wanted to pop in and add a bit about the recipe in this thread. I am just getting started with brugs, thanks to our lovely chrissy here on our Aussie forum. I have around 400 epiphyllums and heaps of zygos and aporocacti etc so thought I would try recipe out. There is nothing in it that will do a damage.
I have been using it about every 3-4 days on everything. All I can say when I look at the epis and brug cuttings especially is WOW.
I have never seen plants look so green and fresh. The new growth is amazing. I mixed up one batch and use it in a small pressure sprayer, I use about 2-3 tablespoons of mix to about 1/2 bucket water . the only thing I have found is that this is a bit much to use at once and if I leave it a few days it tends to get a bit smelly and scummy. I will have to halve the amount of the concentrated mix I am using so there is none left over.
Being in Aust. and not having exactly the same ingredients, I used what was available.
The molasses , ammonia and epsom salts were easy. I use Thrive and Maxicrop, but have not yet found the ti-tree oil. Next time I go shopping in our larger nearest town I will look again.
I like to pop in and read the different threads . I saw those gorgeous ichromas on internet and wish I could import them here. The ones I saw were a cherry red and a purple. As they are a brug relative I wondered if they had any perfume.
I should not look at all your American sites as all I see , I want, and cannot have. You have some really beautiful epis there too. If I ever win a lottery, I'll be over to visit.
pic of my little brugs yesterday.
Happy gardening everyone , Jean.
Juanita,
They do look very healthy. I potted up some seeds and I have 12 cuttings that will go into soil in a week or two. I am using the recipe on mine every other day.
Jean,
This has been very fun, good luck, your brugs also look very nice.
Marie
Hi Jean! Your cuttings look great! I just wanted to jump in and say that Iochromas don't have a fragrance WE can smell, but the hummers and bees sure can smell them! They are busy all day every day.. I love to watch all the "action" around my Iochromas!
Well guys I just got through spraying everything with Ken's original recipe at the top but added 2 tbs. of Bloom Booster. All of my brugs and several of my hibs are looking truly anemic in my greenhouse and the little ones in the house as well. So here's hoping that something works soon. Am thinking of spraying daily for awhile. What do you think?
Anne
P.S. not expecting anything below 45 for awhile so moved all seedlings and cuttings outside and opened both greenhuse doors to get the sun in.
Anne, I spay my cutting and new seedlings twice a day with my recipe but I have not sprayed the seedlings yet with Ken's because I have not been to the store yet but I will try some. My recipe is not as strong as Ken's so I am not sure about babies with Ken's recipe. He is trying new things and will let us know as he goes along.
Jean, the trouble in finding Tea Tree Oil may be in the spelling. It comes from your part of the world. We have it in the health food department of the store not the plant part of the store. It comes from the Tea Tree and I think it may only grow in Australia. Good luck in finding it.
Joan
I called bait shops to find out where they get their worms. I then called the packer who gets them in huge bins Once the pick out the worms they sell me what it left over, in the bins for $3.00 for 75 pounds. The owners are thrill, they used to have a hard time getting rid of it.
They have offered to deliver it to me this year for $100.00 a ton. My husband is going to build me a three sided bin for it. We have use it for all of our plants and they love it.
Wow Brenda what a fantastic idea! That deserves it's own thread! Thank you for sharing that information!
Hey Brenda I will try that. Thank you. Joan
Here last year there was a really good thread on how to raise your own worms. I'll have to look for it tonight when I get home.
Anne
I have raised worms, it was okay, but this way I have an unlimited amount in the spring when I want it. Fresh worm casting will continue to break down and provide nutrients, I get it very fresh and it usually still has eggs and some worms in it. It does not smell and never burns my plants. I use it 50/50 in my mix and my plants grow so well. I use the 50% mix with Miracle grow potting soil then add some perlite, bone meal, and often some alfalfa pellets. My plants grow so well.
We have dug out whole beds and replaced half of the soil with the castings with amazing results.
If you go to bait shops there are usually stickers on the plastic containers of worms with the name of the packers. If they are near by call and ask. I did and it has been a wonderful 4 years. They love that I have found buyers for all of what they used to have a hard time getting rid of. They often run out and have a waiting list. They already have my order for a ton in April.
I did something "off the wall" today too.. I responded to a "rabbits for sale" sign at the feed store.. I asked them if I could come and get the manure.. I laughed more than the lady did.. LOL I know she though I was nutz.. but she said OK... guess that's all that matters!
Ya know... just think of all we go through for our brugs!!! How could a plant have such power over a person..... I mean call and ask for poop? Hello? LOL