Propagation Database ideas-Bring 'em ON!!

Just stopped by at Carol's suggestion. Yes, I have all my seeds divided by genus, then species. They are in ziplocks inside a larger ziplock that is labeled by the month I plant the seeds before my target date. This, of course would be quite different for southern gardeners, and many of my seeds would be sown outdoors in the spring in warmer climates. I start most everything indoors because our season is so short. By the way, I've been re-using starter medium for years. I sterilize it in the oven in a roasting bag. I even sterilize the new stuff.

I would like to see a "Parentage "area with images being able to be added.
Have that area maybe be a link that you can just click on if you desire that information for reference?
Also i would like to be able to add all the information i can on the seed/plant or seedling as possible:
Perrenial/Annual
Zone hardiness
sun exposure
water requirements
soil requirements
fertilizer requirements
Plant depth/spacing
bloom season
bloom style/type
bloom size
bloom color/patterns
blooming habit
Foliage Habit
Companion planting
Personal notes

basically all the info in the plant files

But add in some more info for hybridizing. Us hybridizers write everything down that we can and its hard to keep track of it all when we have so many books, or places to search in. It would be nice if we could store it all on DG and only have one place to go and look to find everything we need..

Lisa H

PS - maybe the plant files can just be adjusted for more of this info? Also maybe we can use the plant files in a personal way of some kind where we can store this info in our diaries or something.



This message was edited Dec 10, 2007 2:56 PM

Weez, could you share your program for seed organization? Is it simple enough for most of us?

Right now, my seeds just don't have a right place. I like the idea of little bags inside of a bag of the month. There is surely more to it than that though.

Charlene

I store mine almost like Weez.... I have the bags labeled by how much time needed to sow before frost date ends... and in each large bag is a smaller bag separating which get surface sowed and which get covered... makes it easier to start an assembly line and I don't have to think about the surface ones..... and also in smaller bags inside are the ones marked for soaking / chilling... and finally a direct sow baggie... whew... exhausting just thinking about all that

:)

Allison

Charlene, I saw Weez's system in person and she had a plastic box with rows of large ziplocks arranged by the month and day she was going to plant them. Now this was just for ones she was going to plant 'that' spring, so she would have to explain to you, or ask you if you meant for storage, seed trading, or, like I said, for sowing that year. Just my observation of one aspect of it.
Carol

You guys with the deer.

Last year one of my lighted deer quit working and I had it in the house to work on it. My husband has a pot belly pig that lives in the garage. She comes in when he is home, she's a pig, she tears stuff up. I went to the back of the house and didn't know she was in the house. I heard squealing and came to see which of the dogs was trying to kill her, evidently that reindeer was saying bad words to the pig because she attacked that deer and destroyed it. The lights that were working didn't anymore and she chewed them all up. I don't work on that stuff anymore in the house.

I was collecting Foxglove seeds yesterday and it made me think about the plans for this new venture. I know there is some info on the plant files entries already (when and if people fill it in) but it is not always what you need to know.

I just went off and picked out a PF foxglove entry at random and found

Seed Collecting:
Allow pods to dry on plant; break open to collect seeds
Allow seedheads to dry on plants; remove and collect seeds

What I would really have liked to see (in this case) was

Seed Collecting:
Pods will open by themselves - coverings required to avoid losing seeds
Seed is very small (printed fullstop size)
Seeds ripen progressively from the bottom of the flower stem to the top

because when I went to harvest them I found many pods were already open and had shed most of their seeds, even though the top part of the flower spike was still green and growing.

The other thing I would love to know about a lot of plants is which ones do well by being planted at seed harvest time and which ones do better if you wait for another season to come in before planting. How well seeds store is also good to know. Some can survive for years, others will only grow if they are very fresh.

I am also thinking that a lot of the information we will get will apply to multiple plants. For example, the things I discovered this week about foxgloves will apply to all the cultivars of Digitalis purpurea so there should be some way to link information which is more general to multiple plants, without it being too tedious if possible. (This from the woman who filled in every single detail on 14 Ranunculus cultivars which only differed by colour, just so people would have the correct plant info no matter which colour they were interested in!)

While I am on the subject of the Plant Files Details, there is one thing which has always bothered me.

Seed Collecting:
N/A: plant does not set seed, flowers are sterile, or plants will not come true from seed

I hate this option - these are different things! It is especially useful to know if you are doing your own hybridizing. For example I have an interest in miniature daffodils. For some of these plants they are unusable in hybridizing because they have mutated and have no flowering parts, others have pollen only, or ovules only. If we are going to get serious I would break this up for the propagation information as follows.

No Sexual Parts in the flowers
Sterile Pollen
Sterile Ovules
Self Fertile
Male and female plants are separate
Must be cross pollinated from another plant of the same species or variety
Must be cross pollinated from another species or variety
Hybrid plant will not come true from seed

I know this is a lot of info, but most plants would get the self fertile tick, it would just be nice to have the options for those plants that don't work that way. It would also be handy to know for plants like the stone fruits which don't set well without a pollinator so that info would be good for the edible plant gardeners as well.

Well, I'm glad to get that off my chest anyway, I've been thinking about posting on this subject for a while now, and Tuesday's experience with the Foxglove just crystallised it all in my head.

Ciao, KK.

Sorry I haven't come back to answers sooner. Ceeadsalaskazone3 pretty much explained how I go about managing my seed inventory. It's pretty elaborate, but I have so many packets of seeds in so many varieties that I could never keep track of them otherwise. At the beginning of each year, I determine my target date for having seedlings ready to set out. Our last frost danger is late May or early June, and I open my little nursery business over the Memorial Day weekend, so that is usually my date. Once that is determined, I decide how many weeks I must allow for each variety to germinate and grow to a saleable size. I label 2 gallon ziplocks with 'Week 22', Week 21, Week 20... and so on. Inside each 2 gallon bag are ziplocks with each genus. Inside the genus bags are the species bags. I maintain a list of where to find each type of seed, as well, and leave a copy in the tote.

Here is an example of my Planting Schedule:

21 Weeks (147 days) before Target Date of Dec 30

Allium: (all but leeks)
Geranium: Pelargonium
Impatiens
Rosemary

So, if I want to locate my pelargonium seeds, I would look at my planting schedule and determine that they are in the Week 21 bag. Conversely, I can look at the list and determine when I should start planting my seeds. Also, at the head of my planting schedule is a list of all the seeds that need to be frozen for stratification or to keep them fresh. (Some seeds do not store well otherwise) Here is the heading for my 2007 plantlist:

Harvest and Freeze in Fall
Aconitum (Monkshood)
Allium (all but leeks & onions)
Clematis
Dicentra (Bleeding Heart)
Eryngium (Sea Holly)
Lavender
Meconopsis (Poppy)
Stachys
Sweet Cicely
Trollius
Violets

I also make note of the times seeds need to be chilled for a week, etc. or any special germination needs.

14 Weeks (98 days) before Target Date Feb 17

Aconitum (Monkshood): (Look in freezer) 2-4wks, then outdoors
Alchemilla (Lady’s Mantle) 2-4wks, then outdoors.
Anemone: Sow 2-4wk, then outside
Apium: Celery, Celeriac
Aquilegia (Look in refrigerator)
Arnica: 3-4wks, no germ, outdoors

This is a great idea! When I do cuttings - strength of IBA and whether liquid, jell or powder, type of cutting ie. heel, inter-node, etc and special treatment such as hammered end and some cuttings can be taken at different times of the year for the same plant. Cutting treatment ie. fungicide drench, high/med/low humidity, special notes, rooting medium composition, etc. It would be nice to have a "comments" section to the different propagation method for each of the plant linked to the PF listing. Call it "Prop Files"

This message was edited Dec 13, 2007 8:10 AM

dylan-LOLOL so sorry about your deer, next time teach them not to say bad words! LOLOL

You gave me a good chuckle-Thanks for the smile!! LOL

idk if someone haas said this, but how about minimum temperature for gemination/growth?

Perhaps the germination temps should be listed 'from' and 'to'.

good thinking

This is what I use .. the T&M Seed Germination Database

http://www.backyardgardener.com/tm1.html

If anyone is interested, I have converted it into a printable word file .. let me know if you'd like me to stick it somehwere for downloading.

X

Wow! I have a book on germination, but this is really a great database. Yes, do make it available. Great thanks.

Judith

Here ya go..

http://www.nerii.org/DB/

Click on the link and then RIGHT CLICK on tmsgdb.doc then select Save Link Target As, a box will open up and you can choose where you want to save it.

X

Great, thanks!

"Different" methods for propagation: ie. stooling, air-layering, serpentine layering, stratification time & temp of seed. Where is this database planned for?

You guys collectively just shatter me. I thought I was an OK gardener till I reread this thread.

Was feeling very proud of myself with lilium/iris seedlings looking good and pansies & leeks planted.

None of my grafts took last year inspite of a lovely little grafting drill from Lee Valley. Will try again this year. We have good snow cover so that at least is a real plus.

Time to go and sprinkle larkspur and poppies on the snow one of these days.

Happy New Year to all you oh so very organized seed sowers.

inanda aka Ginny

I don't think Dave has had time to start on this yet but I can't wait. I am so excited about this database. I have used the WS database some and it is very helpful. I am a novice when it comes to gardening, especially propogation. I want so many new plants but some of the seeds or cuttings are so hard, because of lack of knowledge, that I really need a 'Propogation for Dummies' book.

I love Hellebore, Passiflora, Banana, Brugmansias & some more of the tropicals. I want to learn how to grow them and what I am doing wrong when I lose them. Also when is the best time to relocate different plants & shrubs and how to make more of them. I am very excited about the database. I hope Dave has time before spring to get this running so people can start putting their knowledge in it.

Thanks for the document X....I printed mine off.

Deb

Dylan, the books on propagation are a easy reference and how to guide. so I wouldn't rule them out. Making More Plants by Ken Druse is excellent. I've got the Norman C Deno book on order, but it is a very good one. I'm also looking forward to the database input. Jim

A VERY GOOD book is called "The Gardener's A-Z guide to growing flowers from Seed to Bloom" by Eileen Powell.
It has everything you need to know (except WS but they do talk about putting some seeds in the fridge for a few weeks)
If anyone needs to know about a specific Genus, let me know and I will look it up for you :o)
Robbi

Is there a book called "Gardening for Dummies"? LOL

I bet there is :o)

If so, I think I might need it! LOL

Oh you will do fine!!! I am sure of it :o)

Maybe, since I have the help of all my friends here! ♥

I might have to look up that Gardening for Dummies book. I'm sure there is one out there somewhere.

There's a few!:

http://davesgarden.com/products/gbw/advanced.php?search_text=dummies

LOL

Thanks for the link

NOt that I'm not impatient or anything - has this db been started somewhere?

The WSing one has if you are interested.


Thinking of you Princess Kathy

Robbi :oP

Are trees going to be part of this new database? If so adding in average growth per year would be nice.