Winter garden and seeds

Hello fellow DGers. I aks that you not post on this thread as it is reading material for some others. One of friends came under attack today about her idea of creating a database for winter sowing seeds. This is posted for those who don't have paid memberships to read.
PLEASE DON'T POST HERE. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, D-MAIL ME.

Thanks,
Pupil
____________________________________________________________________
distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
12:01 PM
Post #4239413

I was wondering how many people here at Dave's, were interested in a Database that kept track of all seeds that have worked/not worked in each temperature zone during winter sowing.

I have it on good authority if there were enough interest-it would happen...so please! Jump in and say hello or just Aye!! if you would love to see this here!!
Thanks, Robbi

mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
November 28, 2007
12:03 PM
Post #4239424

Here is my "AYE" and my "HELLO"! :)

WUVIE
Hulbert, OK
(Zone 7a)
November 28, 2007
12:20 PM
Post #4239490

You bet!

Our winter period is actually later, so even though the
thought of winter sowing sounds like standing in ice
with a garden shovel, that is not the case for many.

I've often been known to plant garlic in what others consider
winter.

mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
November 28, 2007
12:22 PM
Post #4239496

Hey Wuvie,
I posted on the garden forum about garlic, maybe you could help me out, PLEASE?! :)

mr_kodak
Caistor
(United Kingdom)
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
12:24 PM
Post #4239503

I am interested...

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
12:31 PM
Post #4239535

Do you have specifics of how you would like this to be structured? What would the feature look like, and how would it behave?

mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
November 28, 2007
12:33 PM
Post #4239544

Hey Dave! I just wanted to say that I think this is an awesome idea for us Newbies, and the Experts! I know I need ALL the help I can get, and I am truly loving being a member of the DG Forums!
distantkin

Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
12:34 PM
Post #4239549

There is a very good one here,

[HYPERLINK@www.wintersown.org]

but I think we could have much more added. So many here at Dave's would help in their own temp (zone).
I think it should be user friendly to all countries so list by temps.

I would be more than happy to compile this info if it needed to be done.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
12:35 PM
Post #4239554

I have started my sowing by using this list but I am not only redoing some that they have not working, I am adding some in my zone that haven't been tried.

So in the Spring I will have many new additions for my zone 4
Robbi

jordankittyjo
Bessemer, AL
November 28, 2007
12:47 PM
Post #4239609

i'm interested

Shirley1md
Ellicott City, MD
(Zone 7a)
November 28, 2007
12:50 PM
Post #4239617

Yes, I think it would a very helpful and informative addition to the Wintersowing Forum.

Here are some of my thoughts on the categories of the wintersown database:

Latin botanical name
Common botanical name
Annual, Biennial, Herb, Perennial, Vine, etc.
Month/Number of seeds sown
Month germinated/Number of seeds germinated
Month/year of 1st bloom
Bloom color/description
Extra information such as if the seeds were old to begin with, if you harvested your own seeds, received them in a swap, etc.

Hyblaean
Niles, IL
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
12:52 PM
Post #4239621

This sounds great Robbi!! I'd love to start annuals outdoors since daylily seeds have taken over the inside space.

cat64129
Rich Hill, MO
November 28, 2007
12:52 PM
Post #4239623

I am also interested.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
12:52 PM
Post #4239625

Shirley I like the info about if they were your own or a swap-that could make a large difference because the sower wouldn't know how old a seed was REALLY unless it was their own.

lauriwilson
Caistor
(United Kingdom)
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
12:53 PM
Post #4239629

That link would work but would need a bunch of stickys, perhaps one for each zone?? Or something like Plantfinder..with only one listing per seed type with an area like in plant files where we could click if we had success by zone instead of zip code/postcodes and and a separate forum for chatter. LOL have I confused everybody yet??? No? want me to try again...LOL

But that said I say Hello and Yes too...

Hugs Lauri

Hyblaean
Niles, IL
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
12:54 PM
Post #4239632

can we get a link right in the database to the plantfile entry too, so we can reference that for pictures and plant info?

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
12:55 PM
Post #4239639

Hyblaean-let me know which ones and I can see if they work for your zone-LOL I have had all summer to work on this winter project (when I bought my house it was to late to plant so I had nothing to feed my addiction but planning and Dave's-LOL). I can tell you if they were wintersown before in your zone and the depth at which they should be done :o) (on many Genus' anyway-LOL)

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
12:55 PM
Post #4239641

oooo that is a good idea Hyblaean!! I love that one!

sevidra
Hopatcong, NJ
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
12:57 PM
Post #4239648

Can't add much due to injured hand, but definitely interested!

Robynznest
Stoutland, MO
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
1:05 PM
Post #4239682

Very, very interested. I just wintersowed about a dozen different seeds. I'm not sure if all of them will come up in my zone. This would be a tremendous help. I could use it today if it were up and running.

nanny_56
Putnam County, IN
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
1:06 PM
Post #4239687

OMG, yes!!!!!!

ginnylynn
Blyth, ON
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
1:06 PM
Post #4239689

This has my most enthusiastic vote - I would love to have this information here on Dave's.

Could we add a simple flag to indicate "Did it germinate Y/N?". The "Month Germinated" is very useful, but not if it's blank with no other supporting information.

Hyblaean
Niles, IL
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
1:20 PM
Post #4239738

Robbi, you've got mail :D Thank you!!

Seandor
Springfield, MA
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
1:21 PM
Post #4239739
This is a terrific idea! Thanks!

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
1:22 PM
Post #4239741

Okay, I think I have everything I need. I'll try to get to this soon.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
1:23 PM
Post #4239745

Is there anything I can do to help make it go faster-so sorry but Patience is not my strong point-LOL

Hyblaean
Niles, IL
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
1:25 PM
Post #4239750

Thanks Dave!

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
1:27 PM
Post #4239758

I'm only one person with a pre-existing stuff of TODOs... :)

lauriwilson
Caistor
(United Kingdom)
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
1:28 PM
Post #4239762

LOL sorta like a honeydo list Dave???

mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
November 28, 2007
1:29 PM
Post #4239772

AWESOME! Thanks Dave!!!!!!!!!!

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
1:36 PM
Post #4239790

LOL-I can help!! Me me me!!
LOL-so sorry!

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
1:44 PM
Post #4239822

I'm voting "yes" as well, dave, maybe trudi could be a resource? She is a DG member ---

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
1:45 PM
Post #4239826

It would be great if Trudi wanted to be a part of it. She hasn't been very interested in us in the past, but maybe the years have changed her thoughts. She's more than welcome in this project and any other we do here.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
1:57 PM
Post #4239858

Dave, I will get in touch with her and see what she thinks.

mittsy
Cicero, NY
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
2:24 PM
Post #4239951

Hello, and yes. Could really use this info. I'm a snowbird who winter sows by trial and error. I prepare my containers and did a trench in my garden. I then bury the container up to the rim in the trench and backfill all around. I leave my labels in the containers and have my sister sow the seeds after the first killing frost. When I return in the spring I have plants or failures. It would be great to have less failures.

Joy
Kalama, WA
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
2:28 PM
Post #4239967

Great idea! It would be very helpful.

ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9b)
November 28, 2007
2:47 PM
Post #4240047

I wonder if it would be possible to add non-wintersowing germination info too? People are always asking questions about how to get things to germinate, which ones need to be nicked, soaked, bottom heat, light, what time of year to sow (if not wintersowing), etc. I don't know anything about wintersowing and definitely don't want to derail that project, but if it's possible, I think it could be valuable to have an overall seed starting database which would include info on how to wintersow the seeds if appropriate, as well as how to start them if you're not wintersowing, and how to start other seeds that aren't appropriate for wintersowing.

cathy4
Bridgeton (st louis , MO
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
2:57 PM
Post #4240087

yes from here, i'm counting on wintersowing to keep me from going winter crazy!

geneivy
Kyle, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
3:49 PM
Post #4240235

Count me in! ecrane3 has made an excellent point, there could be so much more than wintersow. Possible a new entry field on plant files re germination requirements & time.

KatyMac
So. Puget Sound, WA
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
4:06 PM
Post #4240286

I tried WSing but had mixed success in my PNW zone 8. It would be wonderful to have a data base to refer to.

Theresa
Marine City, MI
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
4:16 PM
Post #4240319
I say yes please. Im trying it for the first time this year...I say that every year and havent done it yet. I would love a guide to help me with a good success rate, and DG WS sounds perfect.

kelboindy
Georgetown, IN
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
5:04 PM
Post #4240492

I think that would be a wonderful source of information. great idea!!

Poojer
East Meadow, NY
November 28, 2007
5:11 PM
Post #4240532

I am Trudi Davidoff and I am the author of Winter Sowing and it's creator.

While I appreciate that you like the database that was created by GW members, I'm not sure they would appreciate you copying it or using the format that was worked out on the GW WS forum.

Hosestly, on WinterSown I offer information freely for Fair Use purposes, duplicating or altering the info and publising it on .com would not be part of Fair Use. WinterSown is a ful partner of USDA National Agricultural Library AgNIC (Agricultural Network Information Center)

Dave can contact the secretariat there and ask her about copying our information.

TG Davidoff

kimskreations
Kennebunk, ME
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
5:15 PM
Post #4240549

This in an absolutely OUTSTANDING reference site for seed starting:

[HYPERLINK@www.backyardgardener.com]

The only thing is, it doesn't print well AT ALL!
So, what I did was I copied the information all they way down to where it starts to list the seed names and pasted it into Word. I then formatted my page to be landscape, minimized the margin size, underlined headings etc. so that I liked the way it looked.

Then, I painstakingly went through and copy/pasted all the seed information line by line into an Excel spreadsheet. It was ALOT of work! I didn't keep a copy (I was at work *lol*) of the top information saved but I certainly saved the Excel Spreadsheet! I also formatted the excel spreadsheet so that I was MUCH easier to read.

Dave, I don't know how to attach a spreadsheet to a D-Mail though? Is it possible? If not, I would be happy to send it via e-mail to anyone who would like it. Just D-Mail me your E-Mail *lol*

lcosden
Pawling, NY
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
5:26 PM
Post #4240615

Any type of germination database would be terrific.. I have to stuff both indoor and outdoor that I over planted and germinated later with the new seeds in that location too.. So, this info would be ever so useful.. :)

LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
5:40 PM
Post #4240696

This would be a great Idea to have a database of our own! I do feel for Dave trying to get all of this done though :) Maybe Dave you could figure out how we will do it and then bless someone with the dirty task of putting it together :)

I liked the idea of putting them in by zones that would work for me. Maybe something with different pages/tabs?

Hillbilly_Gran
Lead Hill, AR
(Zone 6B)
November 28, 2007
5:46 PM
Post #4240737

I have winter sown for several years, have kept records sporadically but will be glad to share any info i have
Tommie

revclaus
Denver, CO
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
5:48 PM
Post #4240748

Yes, yes! A database would be fabulous.

cathy4
Bridgeton (st louis , MO
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
6:24 PM
Post #4240938

I remember my grandfather "winter sowing" when I was a child, using hay and old windows like a coldframe, but he put the containers in the first part of January. He learned it from his grandfather in Kentucky. If there was a freak freeze late in the season after things has begun to sprout, he would put a bucket of fresh manure inside to keep it warm for the night.

Conway, MO
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
6:25 PM
Post #4240942

Yes, would love a database for WS!

cannagirl
Deridder, LA
(Zone 8a)
November 28, 2007
6:30 PM
Post #4240962

Another YES vote!

Equilibrium
IL &, MI
November 28, 2007
6:53 PM
Post #4241076

I have wintersown for a few years but have been propagating plants and germinating seed using other practices longer. I would be in a position to contribute information for at least 200 different species to our own DG database. Although a wintersowing database would be nice, I think I'd prefer to see a DG propagation database that was more inclusive than simply winter sowing. What a phenomenal educational tool such a database would be particularly if each entry was linked back to the PlantFiles as well as to the PlantScout.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
6:59 PM
Post #4241101

Maybe that is what should be done...as has been suggested before, add it to the plant files under a heading of propagation. It could have a place for winter sownabilities (lol-I just made that up lol), if it needs light, what temp and also how deep it should be sown-all included under a heading on the plant file. That way when we get new seeds in we will know right away if we can throw it out in the snow bank as soon as we get it-LOL

Thanks all for jumping in here-so glad I am not alone in hoping this happens :o)
Robbi

mystic
Ewing, KY
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
7:04 PM
Post #4241121

I think a propagation database would be wonderful not just wintersowing but for all methods of propagation. I do wintersow have for several years but also there is so much more, what needs light, dark, chipped etc? I think a database like this would make PF almost perfect :) if it could be linked together.

Robynznest
Stoutland, MO
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
7:09 PM
Post #4241146

That would sure be a most helpful thing for me.

Weezingreens
Seward, AK
(Zone 3b)
November 28, 2007
7:12 PM
Post #4241152

I'm willing to offer whatever info I have about wintersowing here in Southcentral Alaska, and I'll bet Ceeadsalaskazone3 would be a real source of information, as well. I'll ask her.

cathy4
Bridgeton (st louis , MO
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
7:13 PM
Post #4241154

I'm just positive Dave isn't busy right now so he should be able to have it ready any time now, haha!

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
7:15 PM
Post #4241159

I hope he sees all of the wonderful input that people are adding-when I started this thread-everyone must have been at work :o)

Robynznest
Stoutland, MO
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
7:25 PM
Post #4241192

I'm so glad you started it. I can't wait to see the end results. I hope to have good results from my attempt at the WS this year. I've done poppies before and did ok. This year I'm counting on a whole lot more to come up besides the poppies.

Zanymuse
Fortuna, CA
(Zone 9a)
November 28, 2007
7:31 PM
Post #4241214

I too think having our own winter sowing information would be a good thing. But please rememberthat the information usedshould not come from other sites and pasted here unless you have asked and been given permission to do so. It is better to add a link to all those wonderful sources of information than to steal it!

DG For gardeners by gardeners... we have the gardeners and many of them have the experience and knowledge needed to make this happen without infringing upon copy rights.

LeBug
Greenville, IN
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
7:35 PM
Post #4241226

That sounds good to put the information in the PlantFiles under propagation/germination that way more plants would be put in the PlantFiles too and a lot of the other information would be in the PlantFiles already :) On some of the plants anyway. I can see our PlantFiles pages getting really really long lol

Kamikid
Thomasville, GA
(Zone 8b)
November 28, 2007
7:36 PM
Post #4241228

Thank you for starting this thread. Many of us are just backyard gardeners and any help we can get will be invaluable. Elaine

kimskreations
Kennebunk, ME
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
7:39 PM
Post #4241231

Good luck to everyone I have sent the Seed Starting Excel Spreadsheet to :)
Don't forget to copy and paste the top information into a Word Document and format it landscape with 1/2 inch margins :)

Best Wishes All :)

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
7:41 PM
Post #4241239

I agree Zanymuse, this is why I posted the link to Dave. I also contacted Trudi to tell her how wonderful her site was and to let her know that we were planning on doing a database here and asked her if she would like to be involved. I have collected my own data from family and friends for my zone, and plan on trying many new species this year. Don't laugh but I have over 500 different varieties of seed that I am sorting through and hope to winter sow many-LOL, I know I have been warned that will be way to much, but I figure what I can't plant-I can share :o)
I have spent my summer collecting and trading seed with many of you all for this and am thrilled that it has now dipped below freezing for the entire day and now my pots are going out-I am having so much fun!
I have asked several of my friends here at Daves if they would share their results with me so we can have a database in case it takes some time to get one started...this is why I contacted Dave about a winter sowing place.
It will be interesting to see how the results turn out-I think of it as a big experiment that in the end will benefit many :o)

So copy from another site-no way-this is way to much fun :o)
~Robbi

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
7:44 PM
Post #4241250

kim-could I see it? I would love to have a look. I use a spread sheet but would love to see if yours works better! Landscape is already an improvement to mine!!
Please :o) !!!!

pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 28, 2007
7:49 PM
Post #4241275

Kudos, Robbi!! I love the idea. Your original one on winter sowing is great and the addition of all germination/propogation would be fantastic. I love the idea of clicking if it worked in your area like it does in PlantFiles and having the info on the Plantfiles page. You are my hero!

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
7:55 PM
Post #4241297

where have you been stranger-get the job??

kimskreations
Kennebunk, ME
(Zone 5a)
November 28, 2007
8:03 PM
Post #4241350

Robbi,

I would be happy to send you my spreadsheet but I need you to D-Mail me your regular E-Mail as I can't attach a spreadsheet here.
The spreadsheet is done in landscape and formatted to print on the least amount of pages as possible.
You will need to copy and paste the top information from here [HYPERLINK@www.backyardgardener.com] down to where it starts to list the species by name into Word.
You will need to format that information so that it fits your needs :)

:)

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
8:09 PM
Post #4241380

Thanks so much Kim for the wonderful link...I will have a look see but it looks great so far! I am sure other members here will enjoy this information :o)

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
8:13 PM
Post #4241399

I have a wonderful book with very similar information (but with much much more) it is called "The gardeners A-z guide to growing flowers from seed to bloom" written by Eileen Powell. It is a fantastic book with so much info! It doesn't mention winter sowing-but if it says "sow outdoors in fall" and it is good for my frigid zone-its a pretty safe bet that it is good!
Robbi

Hillbilly_Gran
Lead Hill, AR
(Zone 6B)
November 28, 2007
8:22 PM
Post #4241439

I think seed propagation info in one place would be awesome. I have just been to 3 websites and looked thru 3 books (counting Deno's as 1 book) for info on rhododendron prinophyllum seed which I happened upon today and of course have to plant. I finally have an amalgam of info which I will assimilate into sowing these seeds. Now with this to look forward to, y'all have twisted my arm behind my back and I WILL MAKE NOTES, I WILL MAKE NOTES (and NOT lose them) LOL

Equilibrium
IL &, MI
November 28, 2007
8:25 PM
Post #4241453

I was thinking more along the lines of a stand alone DG database where members contributed based on their own personal experiences. I would think there are enough of us out there to capitalize on collective experiences to be able to come up with an extremely sophisticated and comprehensive propagation database. Why be limited to just winter sowing> Hmmm, PropagationFiles just as we have the PlantFiles? Imagine the hits that would get particularly if each entry had a link to the PlantFiles andvice versa. I know a few schools that already allow kids access to the PlantFiles so they're already being used in academic settings. I can't imagine why a comprehensive propagation data base that included sowing seeds outside in winter as one propagation method wouldn't become a classroom tool just as the PlantFiles has.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
8:26 PM
Post #4241459

LOL-can you put mine my notes in the same place as yours so I won't lose them either :o)

Hillbilly_Gran
Lead Hill, AR
(Zone 6B)
November 28, 2007
8:28 PM
Post #4241472

Sure-- if you'll help me remember WHERE exactly that is :)~
distantkin

Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
8:40 PM
Post #4241500

for those who want to join..dylancgc is starting a Round robin for seeds for winter sowing.

come join
[HYPERLINK@davesgarden.com]

kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)
November 28, 2007
8:47 PM
Post #4241527

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here. Please don't get angry, I mean this as only constructive information, suggestion, (or critique?).

I also belong to GW and have religiously followed that wintersowing forum for years. This will only be my 3rd year of actually WSing, but I followed the forum for nearly a year before I started planting my first seed. Trudi and the other WSers there have been very helpful and kind to me. Same for this forum. I like both and follow both WS forums as well as the soil forums on both sites and some others.

I have contributed my data to their database in the past. It includes only seed name (common and botanical), zone, date sown, date germinated, and a column for my own use like sun exposure and plant size. During the busy germination, planting out seasons it's all I can do to keep this minimal information straight for so many containers, remember to jot down in my notebook. For germination some have only yes or no because I didn't get around to recording the date, or I lost my pencil in the dirt or something. Who knows, but it didn't happen. Heck, half the time people lose labels and don't even know what they are growing in that milk jug!

The more data you try to track, the more difficult it will be to maintain with any accuracy. Morover, for tiny seeds you couldn't possibly count how many you planted. (Ever try to count petunia or foxglove seeds?) You won't know how old many seeds are. I have no idea the age of some of mine.

Gardening should be fun. This project sounds more and more like work.

Moreover, Trudi has offered to include data from both Dave's site and GW, and I think this would be the best use of the information. Wintersown makes the information available to everyone, and if both sites contributed--- well, all the better.

Again, no offense to my friends here. But I do urge everyone to pause and take a deep breath before getting too carried away. Give it some thought before setting your wheels in motion, and consider what's important. Just the basics. We can only tweak the seeds so much, they're going to do their thing .

Thanks to all who stuck in there and read my thoughts.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 28, 2007
9:15 PM
Post #4241594

Great points Karen. I agree about the more info added the more potential of problem.
As for merging the site, I see problems here as well. If GW people take offense at sharing their info with another website now-why would they not in the future. Also it is clearly marked all over that website "Gardenweb" would this change if Dave's people work on it?
I am also a member of both, but I have closer ties to Dave's and have made this my home for many reason's. I have been going to GW less frequently because I have had people refuse to trade when I mention that I am a member here. It is because of some of this friction that I thought it would be a good idea to have a database within our own garden so to speak.
Bottom line is I enjoy gardening and I enjoy sharing my seeds, my plans, my findings and anything else I have to share...I would never turn someone away (and I have never had anyone at Dave's turn me away because of GW-in fact I have had wonderful members here point to GW as an option) because they were from another garden site. Dave's just seems to be a bit more comfortable as everyone here accepted me and helped me from day one.
:o)

Poojer
East Meadow, NY
November 28, 2007
9:24 PM
Post #4241628

"I too think having our own winter sowing information would be a good thing. But please rememberthat the information usedshould not come from other sites and pasted here unless you have asked and been given permission to do so. It is better to add a link to all those wonderful sources of information than to steal it!"

Yes.

I said I would adapt the information for both sites...so whomever said I wouldn't was not speaking for me, but was sharing their own opinion.

Zanymuse
Fortuna, CA
(Zone 9a)
November 28, 2007
9:34 PM
Post #4241649

Trudy,
I think it is very kind of you to offer to adapt information for both sites. Any information and assistance you might offer is a welcome thing!

revclaus
Denver, CO
(Zone 5b)
November 28, 2007
11:31 PM
Post #4241939

I'd like to be Devil's Advocate for another reason. I think propagation/germination would be a great addition to PlantFiles, but I think a separate winter sown database makes more sense. It would be easier to browse through to get ideas for wintersowing if I didn't have to first think of the seed and then go to the proper place on PlantFiles. I'd like to explore by zone, by sun/shade, by as many categories as Trudy has set up on the GW site and whatever other info is out there. Unless I'm missing something I would hate to see the two projects merged.

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 29, 2007
12:04 AM
Post #4241979

I have received a private message from Trudi that has completely changed my opinion of the potential of involving her in this project.

I have no interest in working alongside Trudi, despite the warm overtures I made toward her earlier in this thread.

Let's proceed but I don't want her or her website involved in any way, shape or form.

And I want to make it clear that, as with everything on this site, we need to make sure that the information that all of you contribute to the upcoming database must not be copied from anywhere. That's always been our standard and we need to keep in mind always, lest some enemy find reason to accuse us.

Dave

revclaus
Denver, CO
(Zone 5b)
November 29, 2007
12:08 AM
Post #4241991

I'm willing. Sorry Trudi wasn't particularly receptive. I guess she has a proprietary interest in winter sowing. But a winter sowing database can be set up here by those of us who've done it. My records are meager, but I'll be happy to share with Dave's Garden. I'd rather have a good database here anyway. The database Trudi has isn't the way I'd set it up. But that's just me.

Does this mean you're going to make it possible for us to do this???

pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 29, 2007
12:34 AM
Post #4242014

Thank goodness Dave's is for Gardeners by Gardeners, as it seems others are for Gain through Gardeners.

We have more than enough knowledgeable and friendly people here who have a keen interest in this. I for one, will be trying this for the first time. I love propagation, hence the name, and keep detailed records of everything I have achieved or failed. This is not burdensome, it is fascinating to me. It might not be for everyone single member, but enough to make it a fruitful database.

pamsaplantin
Morgantown, WV
(Zone 6a)
November 29, 2007
1:20 AM
Post #4242032

Wow, Robbi! I can't believe that you stirred up so many replies today. I think you obviously struck a note with all of us. Personally, I have always felt that the propagation information on PF needed to include more about the specifics on growing from seed. It would probably need to be a separate database but it would be nice if it linked directly from PF to the "Propagation File" for each specific plant if that info is available. Yes, this sounds like a lot of work but I agree with the person who suggested we might be able to add something like the zip code info on PF. Like - this plant has grown from WS (or fall planting or whatever) in these areas. Then we could all add our general info even if we didn't keep specific data. This will be my first time for winter sowing but I know I will not be able to keep extensive records. (I'll be lucky to have time to get them planted & labeled.)

Also - I'm glad you included the link to the Winter Sown data base. I didn't know that existed. Until we get this one up & running it at least gives me an idea of what to try. It makes me sad that this project seems to have generated some negative reactions. (:-(

Hillbilly_Gran
Lead Hill, AR
(Zone 6B)
November 29, 2007
5:18 AM
Post #4242142

I am in--for better or worse. I think both ideas make sense. A general propagation database & a winter sowing database. I am sure it could be set up to sort by sowing times/temperatures so that everything could be included. Because I winter sow and sow year round via heatcable and/or outdoors it would be nice to reference a particular plant and find out what it likes. Because I also grow natives and unusual plants about which there is little info or none, it would be awesome to go to one place instead of spending hours trolling thru websites and trying every possible combination of terms on a search engine. That being said I have accumulated lots of info during my journey into gardening, that i would be delighted to share. I am certain that there is enough experience here at DG to do a bang up job without copying from other websites. As for being burdensome--I'm with pupil, only the ones who want to keep records will, no one else is obligated, but all are welcome to benefit.

jordankittyjo
Bessemer, AL
November 29, 2007
5:44 AM
Post #4242161

now robbi, wheres the data? i got my seeds out and ready! LOL

Cordeledawg
Cordele, GA
(Zone 8a)
November 29, 2007
5:51 AM
Post #4242172

I would use a DG seed database. It would make Daves Garden a one stop gardening information center for sure.

Lala_Jane
North West, OH
(Zone 5b)
November 29, 2007
6:41 AM
Post #4242231

I love the idea...all of them! I too have some pretty good notes from last year that I'd be tickled to share. Of course the further we got into the season the busier I became, and the busier I became the more sparse the notes. LOL! But what I've got is open to all.

Anitabryk2
Ronkonkoma, NY
(Zone 6b)
November 29, 2007
6:55 AM
Post #4242253

I think this is an excellent idea. I've been keeping records in an access database, so any info I can share...
I do agree with some that this should be a propagation database as not everything can be wintersown. As for the wintersowers, information that would be helpful are date sown/date germinated. Results vary greatly from Zone to Zone and when it was sown. I like the idea of a propagation database, because if the seed didn't germinate well with wintersowing then I would like to know what other options I have. A link with the plant files is a fantastic idea as you can also see how to handle the plant after germination and see the results. Knowing when and how to harvest the seed is also important. Perhaps info on what the seed or seed pod looks like would also be very helpful. I do realize that some already have added this info to alot of the plantfile entries. A link with watchdog will also give you direction on where to obtain the seed, or the plant where you can collect the seed at a later date.

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 29, 2007
7:01 AM
Post #4242268

Morning all-I just woke up and WOW!!! Early risers!!

First I wanted to say how sad (but not surprised) I am about the response from the other side. I have run into this negativity many times over there which is a little shocking because as far as I am concerned, there are way to many wonderful gardeners out there to be doing this "thats mine, and you can't be here" stuff. As for winter sowing many of our ancestors have been doing this for years-they just didn't use plastic milk jugs-they used coffee cans (my grandmother did) or mason jars, so no one hold ownership to winter sowing. It will be interesting to see how many times we'll be accused of "copying" their info just because we have the same Genus and species listed. This all just saddens me a bit.

OK, enough of that it sounds like designing this is going to be a big job for Dave :o) I think all of these ideas are great and as soon as any site is up and running I will be adding all my info. My grandmother didn't have details in her notebooks, she just wrote down what seeds worked for her and what didn't, she did have Genus and species written down sometimes-but not very often...as she said she had a farm to run-LOL. I was told that the reason she planted her flowers and favorite veggies this way (anything that wasn't planted in the big garden) was because the "critters" always seemed to dig up what she planted in the fall or early spring but this way, when they were planted she could actually keep an eye on them, Grandma wouldn't hurt a "critter" for anything-she worked around them. I even found a family of duckling living in here oven early one spring because their mother had died-we didn't use that oven for some time-LOL

Anyway, I really appreciate all the comments as I also believe that this would be a wonder asset to Dave's. When this does get set up, it will save me tons of time because I won't have to be looking up seeds, looking for it in my books, and writing everything down about its germination in a file. It will all be at my fingertips! Yiiipppeeee.
This is going to be so much fun...off to pot up more seeds! Anyone want to come join me in my negative 15 degree weather (thats the windchill) LOL :o)
I LOVE IT!!! Brrrrr!!!
Robbi

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 29, 2007
7:05 AM
Post #4242274

While reading Anita's post I thought about one other thing...the data will need to be able to updated easily because what may not have worked for me in winter sowing-or germinating, may have worked for the man down the road from me because his seeds were fresher, or he didn't forget to water like I did because of my 2 kids and 3 cats and 3 jobs-LOL
So something that is pliable to work with.
Just a thought :o)

ginnylynn
Blyth, ON
(Zone 5b)
November 29, 2007
7:15 AM
Post #4242305

I'll be ecstatically happy to see all of this the information here at Dave's, and I'll be putting in tons of my own data that I have noted over the years once the database is available to us.

I hope no one minds if I just add a comment here about basing "where it grows" information purely on either zip codes or zones. If it is limited to zip codes you will exclude all non-U.S. information, just like PlantFiles does now. Using the zone would be better, but still has its problems in an international database. My zone 5 in southwestern Ontario, Canada will have different characteristics from say a high desert zone 5 or Michigan's zone 5 or an eastern coastal zone 5, and what works for me may fail miserably for some of these others. Maybe we could have a field to indicate region (northern Michigan, U.S.A., southern Ontario, Canada, southern France, etc.) or type of environment (high desert, coastal plain, carolinian, prairie, etc.), even if it's just free format text for now it would be a bonus. Honestly though, I'll love it no matter what method is used :-)

Maybe someone else here has a better idea to simplify this?

glendalekid
Tuscaloosa, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 29, 2007
7:55 AM
Post #4242399

I would definitely like to have seed starting details listed in PF. It's the one thing I've felt was missing. I would also be in favor of a winter sowing database linked to, but not necessarily part of PF.

I agree that being able to "browse" a winter sowing database would be very helpful. If linking the individual WS database entry to the entry in PF is feasible -- and I don't know what it would take to do this -- that would be good, too. If linking to the PF is not feasible, then I would still rather have a browsible WS database and if need be look seed starting details up in PF rather than have the WS info incorporated into each PF entry.

Also, let's not forget to include veggies and herbs in this. LOL.

WUVIE
Hulbert, OK
(Zone 7a)
November 29, 2007
8:02 AM
Post #4242424

Wow, this thread has really taken on a new life since last night.
No one asked for it, but I'm in the mood to share my two cents.
*grin*

While I'm not going to speak negatively about anyone, I
have to say, recording ideas on the internet may be new,
but wintersowing was not recently invented, nor a light bulb
invention by one person. We're not asking anyone for
the recipes for the eleven secret herbs and spices.

It may not necessarily have had a specific name, but
wintersowing has been going on for umpteen years.

As an example, I may have talked about putting glass in
rock tumblers all over the internet, or even written a book
about it, but I sure as heck didn't 'invent' the idea nor do
I own the facts. It doesn't matter to me how it travels from there.
If it is a good idea worth sharing, I'll do so.

Robbi's idea is a good one. She's merely asking if the information
many of us know can be collected and shared, Dave has agreed and now moves
forward to create it. I don't see the problem, nor do I want to know
details from those who object, unless as already mentioned, the
information is copied and pasted, which is, of course, not appropriate.

Those of us who have wintersown should be quite capable of
coming up with the how-to on our own. And this is not said to
shun or discredit any other site. We all live in one big world, we
can all get along just fine. For me, there is no 'them and us'.

Brownies for all!

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 29, 2007
8:13 AM
Post #4242472

mmm nummy brownies :o)
Thanks WUVIE (and where is my rag rug-LOL)

jsxtiger
Dundalk, MD
(Zone 7a)
November 29, 2007
10:25 AM
Post #4243033

Another two cents worth...I think the idea is brilliant. Since joining, I have been amazed at the realm of info, suggestions, and tales of success/failures. Things that you experts may have known and then forgotten is like gold to me as a newbie. The one thing I soon discovered DG's is infamous for is sharing. I need all the help and info I can get, in order to be where you are...and it only makes sense to have it all in one place! Saves time, money and stress! Kudos to you!

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)
November 29, 2007
11:43 AM
Post #4243291

Sigh. Are we lurching into another soap opera moment? I have no clue about the relationship between DG and GW and between dave and Trudi, bad or otherwise. I like it here. I first liked it because I could understand the chronology of the threads. I've stayed for that and a host of other reasons (we're friendly, generous, funny, smart, and some of us are even educated about plants.) The cute word "wintersown" might be Trudi's or GW's property; the concept clearly is not. That much emerges just from reading these posts, about people's parents and grand parents who may have learned the trick of planting in containers in the winter from their parents or grandparents.

Winter sowing gave me something that planting my grandmother's dried-up old pickling "dill seed" during my 2 week vacations convinced me I could never have - the ability to grow plants from seed. I kept horrible records this - my first - year, and had a running thread called "Can anyone ID this seedling for me??" Permanent marker isn't permanent. I forgot to save the spreadsheet I made myself (doh!) and so YES! whatever was available here, I would probably use.

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 29, 2007
1:39 PM
Post #4243616

I think a plan here is that we start fairly small, making a very basic database, and then adding to it as ideas start to flow.

As near as I can tell, we're looking for a way for members to report their success with propagating plants by seed using over-wintering stratification. We can begin with that, and expand out to cover other kinds of propagation later.

The report system would look like:

1) What plant is this?
2) Where did the seeds come from? (Self saved, trade)
3) When did you sow the seeds?
4) How many seeds did you sow?
5) When did they germinate?
6) How many germinated?
7) What is the location (zipcode, usda zone, lat/lon, etc) of the experiment?

Does this sound like a plan for starters?

dave

mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
November 29, 2007
1:47 PM
Post #4243634

Sounds simple enough to me being a newbie! :)

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 29, 2007
2:23 PM
Post #4243734

Sounds wonderful!! Thanks so very much!!

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 29, 2007
2:26 PM
Post #4243743

I want to hook it into PlantFiles for a few reasons:

1) We won't have to duplicate efforts. We already have genus,species,cultivar info in PlantFiles as well as all the details (hardiness, bloom color, height, so forth).

2) It will make the propagation database rock-solid. No worrying about mis-spelling a plant.

3) It'll make browsing much easier.

4) It can later be extended and even incorporated directly into PlantFiles if we chose to do so.

So adding an entry to the propagation database would involve going first to the plant's entry in PlantFiles and clicking a link that said something like: "Create a Winter Sowing entry with this plant" and off you go.

dave

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 29, 2007
2:27 PM
Post #4243748

LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!

threegardeners
North Augusta, ON
(Zone 5a)
November 29, 2007
2:30 PM
Post #4243753

I've been reading this thread, it's an awesome idea.

I like it being tied in to Plant Files as well. It will be nice to look up a plant and get ALL the information about it in one place. I think you also should include a definition of Winter Sowing Dave, or you are going to, sure as shootin, have people including things they have sown indoors, just because they did it in the winter :)))

revclaus
Denver, CO
(Zone 5b)
November 29, 2007
2:46 PM
Post #4243794

How would I search by zone? And by sun/shade?

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 29, 2007
2:49 PM
Post #4243805

By hooking into PlantFiles, we would be able to have those kinds of browsing options.

ginnylynn
Blyth, ON
(Zone 5b)
November 29, 2007
2:50 PM
Post #4243808

Sounds great Dave. This is going to be a wonderful resource for all of us.

revclaus
Denver, CO
(Zone 5b)
November 29, 2007
2:52 PM
Post #4243815

Then I'm all for it!

pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 29, 2007
2:58 PM
Post #4243834

This is wonderful. Thanks Robbi, you are a genius, and thanks Dave. It takes one person coming up with the idea, like Robbi, to create an invaluable resource that becomes a learning source, such as PlantFiles. Kudos and can't wait to see this in action!!

grampapa
Wheatfield, NY
(Zone 6a)
November 29, 2007
3:27 PM
Post #4243931

Wow! another great idea that has gotten picked up and in no time at all will be reality at DG. this just gets better and better. I've been frustrated with the 'other' information out there because it is spotty, and either incomplete or duplicative. Certainly better than nothing. But with this hook to PF, awesome!

geneivy
Kyle, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 29, 2007
3:37 PM
Post #4243972

I think Dave's plan to have the propagation data as an extension of plant files is super. If you have plans to wintersow, (or propagate) you know what you have to start with! Ergo, it is easy to look up in plant files, then go to the new data base for instructions or help in deciding how to proceed. As Dave said, most of the data on a plant is already in place, so additional info regarding any kind of propagation could just be a subset of that info. That subset could contain any thing that the general population deems worth while and Dave deems do-able. Gene

Zanymuse
Fortuna, CA
(Zone 9a)
November 29, 2007
5:06 PM
Post #4244219

Willthis work so that I can enter a search for "vegetables suitable for winter sowing in zone 9" and it would give me a list of those plants that have been submitted as suitable.

dave
Bryan, TX
(Zone 8b)
November 29, 2007
7:32 PM
Post #4244824

We will certainly be able to do that, zanymuse. It's really up to ya'll how you want it to work. Once we get started building it, you can suggest tools to get access to the data.

dave

Zanymuse
Fortuna, CA
(Zone 9a)
November 29, 2007
7:49 PM
Post #4244898

That will be great for those of us that only know we want to plant winter "somethings" but don't have a clue as to what is possible at first.

Equilibrium
IL &, MI
November 29, 2007
7:55 PM
Post #4244930

Will this data base be exclusively for seeds sown in winter or will it be a propagation data base including but not limited to seeds sown in winter?

Hyblaean
Niles, IL
(Zone 5b)
November 29, 2007
8:03 PM
Post #4244965

Thanks Robbi and Dave!!
I'd also like a regular propagation database Equilibrium. After talking to Robbi, I found out that most of the annuals I want to grow will have to be sown indoors to have blooming size plants before late July.

flowerhead410
Nelson, NH
(Zone 5a)
November 29, 2007
11:05 PM
Post #4245653

Well I'm glad all has been decided because i think it's a great idea too!

pardalinum
Willamette Valley Z8, OR
November 29, 2007
11:22 PM
Post #4245680

I would be happy to contribute my limited winter sowing information to the database. That said... I sincerely hope we don't stoop to inserting false data to catch potential thieves! Yes, I lurked a bit at that other site...

I anticipate that we at DG will come up with a database with a "professional" polish to it. This means correctly identifying the plants in the first place. I visited the Wintersown site only to find callas (Zantedeschia) as well as Agapanthus identified as Liliums. I also noticed that the lack of information outweighed the useful information. For example, most of the entries for "Month sown" were blank and many of the entries for "Month Germinated" were Y or N. We as a group need to be more specific (perhaps scientific) in our collection of data.

A few more thoughts... Could there be a space for comments? I am thinking that an additional description of growing conditions would be useful (eg snowcover? cold and dry? rained all winter? etc). Also, how were the seeds stored prior to sowing? This could also be a comment. There are so many things that can affect the viability of seeds!

For fine seeds, having a before and after count is difficult. This is where the Y or N (was it successful?) would be more appropriate.

Some seeds are known to be not appropriate for winter sowing. Could there be a way to convey this information? Maybe just a comment without entering the data for something doomed to fail in the first place?

Just my 2 cents worth for now...

distantkin
Saint Cloud, MN
(Zone 4b)
November 29, 2007
11:32 PM
Post #4245693

I just recieved 2 letters from Trudi, I am a bit taken aback as she keeps referring to that other info as GW info for GW members-which I am one, I have a sister that input info to that site and now am being told I am a thief for using it...it just rubs me wrong.
I was told that I started a lot of trouble with this and that I should have spoken to them FIRST. Lets just say I responded and stood up for myself with dignity.
If I didn't feel ostrisized before being at GW, I sure won't be going back any time soon.
I know many people here also go to GW...have the lines really been drawn? This is just nuts-all over an age old tradition that I am sure generations before myself, or Trudi for that matter, have done. Sowing seeds in the winter is not something that is hers or theirs...and it angers me that all this has come about because I was trying to be considerate by asking her to join us, I didn't do it because I was obligated, I was being kind...hmmmmmm, go figure.

mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
November 29, 2007
11:43 PM
Post #4245712

Robbi, just remember that you are doing a wonderful thing for all of us here at Dave's, and I would not be surprised if any from over there come and visit and take away information for themselves that they are NOT getting there. I think you came up with a wonderful idea that will help us newbies and "oldies" (used lightly! LOL) alike, and I know it will be greatly appreciated! Now get back to Mr. Dickens! ((((HUGS))))

pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 29, 2007
11:43 PM
Post #4245713

Robbi, some people are not in this world for helping, but hindering. It sounds like you may have run into one. If sowing seeds in the winter (not dare use the other word) was exclusive, then it seems as if only one person would have a lovely garden. The gift of sharing and caring is not granted to everyone. Their selfish ways keep them from seeing the good which could come out of it.

You are right, there was no obligation, as their are no exclusive rights on MY seeds and how I PLAN to use them. I am sorry this has caused you so much trouble over something which people should be happy to share. Ignore her and anything to do with her. Let her have all the anger and we will go about making a fantastic database merrily. You are not a thief, but a good person who is trying to help novices like me become better gardeners. No matter what you do, you can never please everyone and some you can't please at all. I googled this "technique" and found 11,000+ other sites about it.

Hmmm...wonder if the fear that ours will outgrow hers could be the reason for all the anger. I can't fathom what else it could be.

Equilibrium
IL &, MI
November 30, 2007
12:15 AM
Post #4245759

pardalinum- Good comments regarding the deficiencies as pertain to the other data base.

distantkin- Let her go. You are a kind soul and there's no sense even attempting to reply to any correspondence that you find unsettling. I believe there may be more to this than meets the eye. Please consider forwarding all of her correspondences to you to dave or Terry and call it a day.

pupilpropogtr- I like your use of the words sowing in winter. Me thinks you are striking a chord, "wonder if the fear that ours will outgrow hers could be the reason". Anyone for a PropagationFiles with a... now how did pardalinum phrase that... "professional" polish to it... as opposed to a sowing in winter only data base ;)

Say folks, we can definitely do this on our own relying upon our collective personal experiences. I checked my notes and I have propagated over 500 species using an assortment of techniqes with the vast majority being successfull. Many trees and shrubs which people definitely have an interest in. I am one person. Multiply just me and the others who have personal experiences propagating in this thread by how ever many subscribers we have and I believe we have no reason what so ever to look anywhere else other than to our own subscribers for data.

revclaus
Denver, CO
(Zone 5b)
November 30, 2007
12:44 AM
Post #4245788

Robbi, don't worry about it. You did a good thing and we all appreciate it. Obviously. I'm a member at GW too, and keep stressing that it doesn't belong to them exclusively. We'll put together a better and more accurate one. We'll be the envy of the web!!

You go girl!

Click the image for an enlarged view.

Zanymuse
Fortuna, CA
(Zone 9a)
November 30, 2007
12:58 AM
Post #4245797

Wow! can you imagine going to a forum anywhere for info only to follow the advice to total failure because someone was so paranoid they inserted false info!

I have known for years that there was resentment over the success of DG and that it has occasionally boiled over into an us against them type mess. How sad! I think I am still a member there... not certain... haven't been there in quite a while... I use the same screen name in both places and the last few times I tried to ask a question I received no responses even though the conversation was an active one. At the time I just thought it was a clique and left. Now I wonder if they thought I was a DG spy or was there to steal their ideas to advance DG somehow.

The fact is I am sure there are members there who are just as warm and friendly as those here and who have a lot of great information to share but choose to share it there instead of here. I just wish everyone could get past the us or them feelings. I go to the library and use a wide variety of reference books. I would like to be able to say the same of Garden forums and gardening web sites without feeling like I am either being disloyal to one or a spy to the other! Fortunately, I am not made to feel that way here! I can openly say the name of Gardenweb without being censored for it or mention that they have a great whatever without being flogged.

distantkin, I am truly sorry that you have been treated in such a repugnant manner. Please do not let it dampen your enthusiasm for this wonderful addition to DG.

pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 30, 2007
3:21 AM
Post #4245842

Zany, I agree completely about the us and them. When I first started gardening a whopping four months ago, I happened upon their site first. Then I happened on DG. The difference was astonding and I never went back. Everyone who is still a member of GW is open about it here. There is no anomosity towards the poster who states such. I don't believe we at DG created this us/them environment, but vice versa. I have heard many times for other DGers who were sent to "disneyland" for mentioning DG. I have also visited other garden forums where I was free to talk about DG and no cool shoulders there. It seems to be exclusively with them. It is some what sad to watch a site self destruct because of a superiority complex.

I ran across this link on DG about a month ago and I believe it can pretty much sum up the horror stories people have gone through for NOTHING [HYPERLINK@davesgarden.com]
And what is even more proof of acceptance is Dave allowed this.

luvsgrtdanes
Philadelphia, PA
(Zone 6b)
November 30, 2007
6:40 AM
Post #4246003

I lurk at both forums, I won't be retuning to GW I don't appreciate the fact that anyone here was called a thief!!!

Robbi I would definitely forward any emails from Trudi, to Dave or Terri, that is uncalled for. It is obvious here, just from the other post what Dave's members are like!!!♥

I am looking forward to the Data Base here with all "TRUE" information.

Look here to see how Dave stood up for our web site!!

Cordeledawg
Cordele, GA
(Zone 8a)
November 30, 2007
6:45 AM
Post #4246009

I feel that all gardening techniques are meant to be shared regardless of the name given to it. "Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?" Of course it would. We human beings were actually born to be gardeners for His Glory in all His seasons.

jordankittyjo
Bessemer, AL
November 30, 2007
6:54 AM
Post #4246034

WAY TO GO DAVE!you took being called a thief better than i would have

ginnylynn
Blyth, ON
(Zone 5b)
November 30, 2007
7:14 AM
Post #4246107

What an ugly, unfortunate situation.

I used to point people to their winter sowing database for information, but in view of the seemingly vicious nature of the ongoing attacks from them I can no longer do so in good conscience.

If they are concerned that the Propogation database at DG will outstrip theirs and become the tool of choice for gardeners, their actions up until now have virtually gauranteed such an outcome in my view.

Dave, you're a class act. Thank you for your attempt to set the record straight for us.

Anitabryk2
Ronkonkoma, NY
(Zone 6b)
November 30, 2007
7:16 AM
Post #4246110

I'm not surprised by Trudi's attitude. She gave Dave a problem when we wanted to start the Wintersown Forum. Something about wintersowing being her word and her business. The sad part about it all is that many GW members that support Trudi don't get to see her entries here on DG since they don't subscribe. They only get one side of the story. I belonged to both. I know there are others that are still members on both sites. We get to make educated opinions based upon those entries.

That being said, I think we should go back to the fun of creating our database. It's not worth wasting energy on negativity.

cat64129
Rich Hill, MO
November 30, 2007
7:23 AM
Post #4246130

I don't know the other site at all, but I agree with the above comments. You did good Robbi. Your motives were good, your idea was wonderful, and it will do nothing but help those of us who haven't tried it before. Don't stress. I have never understood why we can't all "just get along".

critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)
November 30, 2007
7:29 AM
Post #4246154

This is a great idea!

Will we also be able to make entries based simply on whether or not something has germinated for us? I keep track of genus/species/variety information and seed source, but I'm less good about remembering when I sowed and when it sprouted etc... although that's good info to have, and I'll try to do better about noting it! It might be still be good to have a flag simply to note whether or not a particular variety has "worked" for you with winter sowing methods -- like the zip code report in PF.

Seandor
Springfield, MA
(Zone 6a)
November 30, 2007
7:33 AM
Post #4246165

As a scholar I take the position that the world is made better when knowledge is shared - and not used as currency. As long as the data base is made available to the public, I think we should all aplaud all efforts to make this information available.

Anything else is just plain silly. :-)

Woofens
Dillonvale, OH
(Zone 6a)
November 30, 2007
7:40 AM
Post #4246184

I have been watching and reading this thread with interest but lurking... basically cause I"m not sure I want to sow seeds in the winter. But am I reading right that the database on GW has misinformation deliberately put into it? That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard! Now if I'm reading wrong, please don't jump down my throat. Just please tell me that the database here at DG isn't going to be like that. WHY would doing that benefit anyone????

I'm so confused :(

kqcrna
Cincinnati, OH
(Zone 6a)
November 30, 2007
7:46 AM
Post #4246212

As I already mentioned I use both sites and like both. I will continue to visit both unless I'm kicked out of one or the other. Anyone can tell who I am on either site as my username is the same at both and I always sign my first name to the post. This friction is unfortunate but not my problem as I see it. I feel like I have garden friends at both places.

I do want to offer one thought to new wintersowers. While a database might be helpful as you get your toes wet, don't limit yourselves to wintersowing seeds listed in some database. Remember, those seeds only made it onto the list because somebody tried it at some time AND reported it to the database. I really pay little attention to it. I browse seed catalogues and follow forums and read garden books and see plants that I never heard of. Suddenly I find I can't live without it, have to try it.

The only database I really use a lot is my own. In my 2 years of wintersowing I have formed a database of my own. I begin by jotting information in a notebook as I sow and later form it into an Excel spreadsheet. Just a simple thing with seed name, date sown, if or when it germainated, A, B or perennial. Planting notes in another column with things like sun exposure and plant size. When I start sowing seeds this year if I'm trying one that failed last year I can look at my info and see when I sowed last year, and this year I'll try earlier or later. I often refer to Tom Clothier's site to see if that seed needs cold strat or some other particular condition for germination. This has worked well for me, and I am limited only by my imagination.

Looking at last years records I see that 60 of my 68 jugs germinated so it's working well for me. Be creative and have fun, try stuff that you like.


pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 30, 2007
7:51 AM
Post #4246226

Dave fantastic job. I have never seen someone backpedal so fast in my life. Robbi, you have only done DG an even greater service. People who are members of both will be afraid to post there, as she may call the BIG DOGS in.

Seandor
Springfield, MA
(Zone 6a)
November 30, 2007
7:51 AM
Post #4246228

I suspect the nobody has deliberately inserted wrong information. Sometimes one technique will work in one area, but be less successful in other places.

Also, sometimes people jump to incorrect conclusions; I think we should assume that most gardeners (like most people in general) are decent folk. If some at GW are concerned it's because they really do mean well and presume that any DG data base will exclude those who cannot afford the subscription cost. I think Da Dave has made it clear that the information will be made freely available to the public.

pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 30, 2007
7:57 AM
Post #4246251

Direct quote from Trudi on the site, Seandor. Sorry, for this is a shame and a sham.

"I have made deliberate mistakes in our database and I will continue to do so. If those show up in your database you have posters who don't care about copyright infringement and I will let you know about it. Everytime. I expect you will act professionally and remove the pirated information.."

pupilpropogtr
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)
November 30, 2007
7:58 AM
Post #4246256

So basically, if you are a member on one site and the other, like many, if you post results on both sites, she will call out the dogs. Lovely person.

pixie62560
South China, ME

bump